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Herkles
Seeker
82 Posts |
 Posted - 28 Nov 2007 : 02:27:31
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I have some questions regarding eilistraeens and elves. what are the relationships between the eilistraeens and the various different elven subraces, not counting drow, be like? if say a wandering elf, of any subrace that isn't drow, came across an eilistraeen shrine with drow in it what would happen? If an elven settlement was nearby an eilistraeen shrine, what would be the relationship would they work together or what would they do?
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Veldrin Laervain
Acolyte
Canada
28 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2007 : 02:41:49
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It depens of the character I think. Because it put their all civilisation and belief in the balance, many elf doesn't want to believe in the existance of Eilistraee, but some have come to believe it by action of her folower or people who speak of her. Even from non-drow who believe in her.
Some elf believe in her and have her as principal deity. They help Drow that serve and follow her to be accepted by other.
Some deity tend to encourage their follower to help her's. |
Destiny is as great as our choice.
A situation will always have two side, a bad and a good.
May the song of the Dark Maiden guide the step of your life's dance |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2007 : 02:43:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Herkles
I have some questions regarding eilistraeens and elves. what are the relationships between the eilistraeens and the various different elven subraces, not counting drow, be like? if say a wandering elf, of any subrace that isn't drow, came across an eilistraeen shrine with drow in it what would happen? If an elven settlement was nearby an eilistraeen shrine, what would be the relationship would they work together or what would they do?
Well, Eilistraee teaches her followers to be kind and charitable towards all people, so there's no reason to think her clerics would be hostile towards wanderers, unless they had some reason to be.
As for second question, again, I see no particular reason why temple and settlement couldn't be allies. But these questions are very vague and difficult to answer when nothing is known about the subjects other than that one is "a wandering elf" and the other is "an elven settlement". |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2007 : 02:44:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Veldrin _Laftria
Some elf believe in her and have her as principal deity.
Yes, like one of my characters. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Veldrin Laervain
Acolyte
Canada
28 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2007 : 02:57:32
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Veldrin is working to become a Divine Champion of her. But she respect every other elven deity.
Like Rinonalyrna Fathomlin said. Eilistraee teach to be kind, gentle and welcoming to every stranger, even more with the elf that are, in some way, cousin to the Drows.
But she teach them to aply the principle eye for eye and tooth fot tooth and to defend themself when, and only when, they are attact. So they don't agress stranger unless the stranger agress them first, or they have information that particular person have hurt one of Her follower. |
Destiny is as great as our choice.
A situation will always have two side, a bad and a good.
May the song of the Dark Maiden guide the step of your life's dance |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2007 : 04:42:40
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Well Eilstraee does not teach revenge, that is another. So followers will attack one that attacks them or attack someone attacking another that in their view should not be attacked.
Though back to to OP, often it would be more a problem for the surface elf believing an aceptance in peace then any other problem. In general no elf trusts a Drow worshiping Eilistraee (The Drow say they are evil for rejecting Lolth if not just deluded, in either event must be killed and the surface elves are taught to believe that Eilistraee worship is just a Lolthian Drow trick and all Drow should be killed).
That said there are some non Drow that spead the message of the Dark Maiden so depending on encounters and local lore a fair elf might not be in fear of life when greeted kindly. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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nbnmare
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
205 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2007 : 12:42:24
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I'd say that meetings between Eilistraee-worshipping drow and surface elves usually aren't particularly pleasant; after all, even meetings between members of different groups of surface elves can be somewhat unfriendly (take the elves of the Wealdath's reponse to what they believed to be an emmisary of Evermeet in Silver Shadows, for example). However, such meetings also don't generally don't result in outright hostilities.
However, my personal view is that Shevarash and his followers are being more and more influenced by the whisperings of Shar, and unless another member of the Seldarine notices what's going on and intervenes, Shevarash will eventually come to consider Eilistraee an enemy. (Shar's motivation for this is that Eilistraee is an important ally of Selune and Mystra, who are of course Shar's hated enemies; any weakening of the church of Eilistraee is therefore of great benefit to Shar and her wfollowers.)
For that matter, I also see Shar desiring to have Shevarash become a sponsor of the Eldreth Veluuthra, with his offer of divine aid being on the condition they don't harm or hinder human members of the church of Shar. |
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TobyKikami
Learned Scribe
USA
113 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2007 : 15:28:41
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quote:
Originally posted by nbnmare
I'd say that meetings between Eilistraee-worshipping drow and surface elves usually aren't particularly pleasant; after all, even meetings between members of different groups of surface elves can be somewhat unfriendly (take the elves of the Wealdath's reponse to what they believed to be an emmisary of Evermeet in Silver Shadows, for example). However, such meetings also don't generally don't result in outright hostilities.
However, my personal view is that Shevarash and his followers are being more and more influenced by the whisperings of Shar, and unless another member of the Seldarine notices what's going on and intervenes, Shevarash will eventually come to consider Eilistraee an enemy. (Shar's motivation for this is that Eilistraee is an important ally of Selune and Mystra, who are of course Shar's hated enemies; any weakening of the church of Eilistraee is therefore of great benefit to Shar and her wfollowers.)
For that matter, I also see Shar desiring to have Shevarash become a sponsor of the Eldreth Veluuthra, with his offer of divine aid being on the condition they don't harm or hinder human members of the church of Shar.
Which does make me wonder how Shevarash rationalized Shar's alliance with Vhaeraun (or for that matter Hoar's with Kiaransalee), or if he pulled a Targus circa Netheril all "Not listening, not listening, hear no evil, LA LA LA." |
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Herkles
Seeker
82 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2007 : 22:12:24
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I do agree, that most elves wouldn't trust or believe what an eilistraeen is saying. Yet if they are shown kindness from the eilistraeens would their opinions of them change?
Would the view an elf has of eilistraeen drow that he or she meets be slightly diffrent on his/her subrace, ie if a sun elf met an eilistraeen would it be any different then if a moon elf met an eilistraeen?
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2007 : 22:40:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Herkles
I do agree, that most elves wouldn't trust or believe what an eilistraeen is saying. Yet if they are shown kindness from the eilistraeens would their opinions of them change?
Yes indeed if spending time their view would change.
quote:
Would the view an elf has of eilistraeen drow that he or she meets be slightly diffrent on his/her subrace, ie if a sun elf met an eilistraeen would it be any different then if a moon elf met an eilistraeen?
Well sun elves tend to be more resistant to change in gereral so yes in general indeed different subraces would tend to be harder to convince then others. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2007 : 23:08:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Herkles
I do agree, that most elves wouldn't trust or believe what an eilistraeen is saying. Yet if they are shown kindness from the eilistraeens would their opinions of them change?
Depends on the elf (I don't mean what sub-type of elf--I mean personality). Some people are so stubborn they won't change their minds for any reason, and it's the same with elves.
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"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 28 Nov 2007 23:10:45 |
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Veldrin Laervain
Acolyte
Canada
28 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2007 : 20:34:34
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| I have to admit your right, all of you... Sorry to induct you, herkles, in mistake. |
Destiny is as great as our choice.
A situation will always have two side, a bad and a good.
May the song of the Dark Maiden guide the step of your life's dance |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2007 : 00:40:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Veldrin _Laftria
I have to admit your right, all of you... Sorry to induct you, herkles, in mistake.
Don't be sorry for giving your opinion. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2007 : 10:30:29
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Well, to all fans of Eilistraee and the recent novels on here, an advice freely given and urged to keep in mind:
Novel stories and popularity does not (as in: NOT) relate into in-setting prominence. Read the entries on Eilistraee in Demihuman Deities very carefully and ... read them again! Most people ravaging these boards because of the Drizzt lobby also heavily lay into the Eilistraeens. But both factions have to keep their feet firmly on the ground and think about the above. Drizzt popularity and novel appearances do not relate into good drow prominence on the surface. Nor does the recent number of Eilistraee novels and coming with that, activity on the surface. For much of what has been written in the Lady Penitent novels (regarding activity) has been going on for centuries, but no novel has shed any attention on it.
So here is the important part in DD, the one which should interest any DM, player and level-headed Realms-reader first and foremost:
quote:
The followers of Eilistraee are figures of legend in both the Underdark and the Lands of Light. They are the subject of superstitions and wildly inaccurate mistruths, held by surface dwellers to be the evil vanguard of the Spider Goddess's plot to plunge all of Faerun into darkness under her rule and held by those drow who follow the Way of Lolth (or other evil gods) to be faerie (surface elf) invaders masquerading as dark elves in preparation for the coming war of annihilation. Rare is the individual - dark elf or not - who appreciates that Eilistraee is forging her own path, one that welcomes beings of all races who revel in life and the free form expression of all that entails.
In essence, to most of the common populace (elf or not) of Faerūn, the common Eilistraeen is a drow. Not even that many drow will have ever heard of her / them, and whether the average elf has is very much up to the DM or player (remember that you need at least one rank in Knowledge (Religion) to have actually heard of her - unless you twist the RAW). All have heard of drow though and if you give all the recent novels some credence, the Eilistraeens are hardly the bare-skinned female quasi-Ilmaterians as people often like to portray them either. They are a very small religion with a very small followship on a continent stretching for thousands of square miles (was it 17 million sqm?). Always keep that in mind. |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gęš a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerūn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
Edited by - Zanan on 02 Dec 2007 10:34:17 |
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IronAngel
Seeker
65 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2007 : 13:06:04
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That's not entirely correct. Ed has said here on Candlekeep that Eilistraee sends visions to tempt most drow at some point in their lives. A quote:
quote:
So almost all drow learn of Eilistraee's existence, and even receive a true picture of what it is (Lolth can't stop that, because she too uses the dream-vision approach, and to try to block others from using it would rob her lay worshippers of much sanity, her priestesses of much daily control over those lay worshippers, and herself of much control over her priestesses). Not all that many reject Lolth and cleave to Eilistraee, but many secretly yearn (meaning they might spare a stricken worshipper of Eilistraee if they think no priestess is watching, or fail to pass on to other drow something they may have seen of the activities of faithful of Eilistraee, or stop to watch a dance of Eilistraee worshippers rather than disrupting it).
Also, Eilistraee's is not a particularly tiny religion, at least not anymore. About one in five drow worship her to some extent. Another quote from Ed:
quote:
Eilistraee has far more worshippers than the drow who dwell under the firm influence of Vhaeraun or Lolth (who is by far the most powerful of drow deities) would have one believe. I'd say a little more than 22% or so of all drow in Faerūn worship Eilistraee - - although I must again remind scribes to set aside any modern monotheistic thinking: in the Realms, the vast majority of intelligent beings worship many or at least several gods, NOT just one. It's not easy to truly believe in and worship Lolth and any other drow deity, but a particular drow individual COULD venerate both Eilistraee and Vhaeraun (though they'd serve neither well, in trying to follow or honour both). Drow who ONLY worship Eilistraee are almost entirely her clergy, and are probably between 10 and 12 percent of all drow.
So I would assume that in today's Realms, Eilistraee is relatively well known among both drow and elves of regions in which there is drow activity. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2007 : 23:35:41
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| Of course, being well known doesn't necessarily mean "trusted". |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2007 : 16:51:59
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| Make that a "known", not exactly "well known". And people should always read her description and that of her followers in full. For neither are the naked and soft versions of Ilmater & Co.. |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gęš a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerūn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2007 : 17:43:51
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We of course run into that Canon rule as well when dealing with anything concerning the Realms.
The Dark Maiden's write up in 2nd Edition provides the best detail, the third edition offered a summery. However novels and Ed speaks do modify what is in print prior to that. It does appear Eilistraee has reached her peak in 3rd based on what _The Orc King_ appears to offer.
It appears the best years end with spellplage and her followers decline again (if not totally disappear).
This is the best time to get non Drow followers for any running a Good Drowcampaign. The Harpers spread the story of her and support the spread of the religion. Which makes me wonder how well the Harpers fare in 4th. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Aravine
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2007 : 17:54:20
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| you'd think they would have to prove themselves to openminded elves, as for evil elves, well, can anyone say fillet? |
The brave don't live forever,the cautious don't live at all |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2007 : 18:57:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
It appears the best years end with spellplage and her followers decline again (if not totally disappear).
I would like to point out, though, that this tidbit (among others) is learned through an unreliable narrator--Drizzt. We don't have to assume that Drizzt was absolutely correct about everything he said. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Aravine
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2007 : 20:16:17
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| Thank you, Rino! |
The brave don't live forever,the cautious don't live at all |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2007 : 22:16:46
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| You're welcome. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2007 : 10:46:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
It appears the best years end with spellplage and her followers decline again (if not totally disappear).
I would like to point out, though, that this tidbit (among others) is learned through an unreliable narrator--Drizzt. We don't have to assume that Drizzt was absolutely correct about everything he said.
Very much so. For he is not as omnipotent or all-knowing as the likes of ... dare I say it ... Elminster. The scimitar-wielder roams the northern reaches of North-Western Faerūn and will hardly know what is happening down south. |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gęš a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerūn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
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eilistraeens and elves
