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zeon600
Acolyte
USA
1 Posts |
 Posted - 24 May 2003 : 21:12:51
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I thought drow were suppost to be drop-dead beautiful! The picture on the cover of the "Dark Elf Trilogy" is messed up. I makes Drizzt look like he is some old man through the whole book. I wonder what Zak, and Matron Malice looked like if Dirzzt looked like that...
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2003 : 22:37:10
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You're not the first to have seen that.
Personally, it seems like no official cover image is ever 'right' for the drow. Sure, it would be hard to please everyone, but I can't believe that it would be hard to even get the color right! Green? Brown?  |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Mournblade
Master of Realmslore
USA
1288 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2003 : 02:58:50
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That cover of Drizzt is Terrible. During that time of the early 90's TSR was making some bad calls! Too say the least! did you ever see the ORIGINAL cover to Daughter of the DROW? Look at the LAME Fyodor and Liriel Baenre. What the art director did, is replaced the artist's drawing of Liriel's head, and replaced it with a fascimile of the Chairperson of TSR at the time. A rather fat cow, that made Liriel look like a trailer diner smoking waitress. That has got to be the WORST art insult TSR ever gave to its readers. The current covers are much better. The woman on the original cover is the same BOVINE that CRASHED the original TSR into the ground. If not for Wizards of the Coast, she would of destroyed D&D.
To the members of PETA: I apologize for comparing the innocent cows to the Chairperson of TSR. They did not deserve to be compared in such away.
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A wizard is Never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he Early. A wizard arrives precisely when he means to... |
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Zaknafein
Seeker
USA
77 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2003 : 05:45:53
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| i completely agree. drow art has greatly improved. i loved the way drow are pictured on Dissolution and the Hunters Blade Trilogy |
Zaknafein Do'Urden: mentor, teacher, friend....To Zak, the one who inspired my courage. -Drizzt Do'Urden
Full plate and packing steel. |
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zemd
Master of Realmslore
France
1103 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2003 : 09:19:01
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| They are a lot more proud now. But we can say the same for a lot of the other races, Races of Faerun shows us how they improved their drawings. |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2003 : 11:59:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Mournblade
That cover of Drizzt is Terrible. During that time of the early 90's TSR was making some bad calls! Too say the least! did you ever see the ORIGINAL cover to Daughter of the DROW? Look at the LAME Fyodor and Liriel Baenre. What the art director did, is replaced the artist's drawing of Liriel's head, and replaced it with a fascimile of the Chairperson of TSR at the time. A rather fat cow, that made Liriel look like a trailer diner smoking waitress. That has got to be the WORST art insult TSR ever gave to its readers. The current covers are much better. The woman on the original cover is the same BOVINE that CRASHED the original TSR into the ground. If not for Wizards of the Coast, she would of destroyed D&D.
To the members of PETA: I apologize for comparing the innocent cows to the Chairperson of TSR. They did not deserve to be compared in such away.
LOL  Sounds like youre as disgrunted as me with the old TSR situation, Mournblade 
The old covers were appauling and (although it is wrong of me) it made me avoid reading Daughter of the Drow and Tangled Webs. However, the new cover art by the amazing Todd Lockwood enticed me to read them, and im so glad I did as they are EXCELLENT reads!! |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2003 : 16:05:55
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| sigh -_-" Rad, Rad, Rad, Rad, Rad . . . . |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Mournblade
Master of Realmslore
USA
1288 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2003 : 17:20:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Zaknafein
i completely agree. drow art has greatly improved. i loved the way drow are pictured on Dissolution and the Hunters Blade Trilogy
I have too say the reason the Dissolution series covers are so good is due to BROM. THat guy is one of the most incredible artists in the FIELD!!! He I beleive singlhandedly gave DARK SUN the SAVAGE feel it required. D&D has had good art in the 70's and 80's. My contention is when they were just passing off covers that looked terrible. The good artists were out there so use them. (I will say the artist that did the cover of the Dark elf trilogy book's was VERY good as well, he just did not portray Drizzt as MOST people picture him) MOST of the art on the second rendition of the 1st ed books is INCREDIBLE!!!! Look at the original MM! There were GREAT artists then like Sutherland and Easley. Without THEM D&D would not have the strong images it has today.
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A wizard is Never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he Early. A wizard arrives precisely when he means to... |
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Edain Shadowstar
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2003 : 18:20:28
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| Ah the old arguement over cover art. I have seen this one many times, poster A says Drizzt cover art on this book was terrible, poster B says all TSR cover art from that period was pretty bad, and so on. In the 1980's and early 1990's the cover art was, for the most part, shall we say subpar? Drizzt, since he had so many books, got terribly done, and most versions of him in cover art were in no way similar from one to the other, and just universally bad. So far, I have yet to see a really good image of him done by an artist working for Wizards. Now, the cover art on FR books has gotten better (Sage mentioned Brom who does fantastic work), so there is light at the end of the tunnel. |
Edain Shadowstar
Archwizard of Rel Astra and Waterdeep
"Mmm…pie…"
- Gaius Solarian, Captain General |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2003 : 19:23:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
sigh -_-" Rad, Rad, Rad, Rad, Rad . . . .
Yeah yeah, I know I have learnt my lesson though, no more judging a book by its cover  |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Zaknafein
Seeker
USA
77 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2003 : 20:34:43
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| i cant argue with you Rad...it shouldnt but to me if affects me by whether i should read it or not. "can't judge a book by its cover" is true, but a good illustration really helps. |
Zaknafein Do'Urden: mentor, teacher, friend....To Zak, the one who inspired my courage. -Drizzt Do'Urden
Full plate and packing steel. |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 26 May 2003 : 03:39:02
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The only thing I really hate about covers is when they show something that does not actually happen in the book! A favorite example of mine is on a wonderfully funny book by Margaret Ball, called Mathemagics. I've mentioned this before (I think it was the final thing Echon got irritated at me for  ), but I'll just say a few things.
It's about a woman from a world where math = magic. (Need a clone of something? Distribute it! ) She's come to the world of the Paper-Pushers (she calls us that because we use this really weird green paper for money) so that her girl can get a good education and not have to be a sellsword like her mother.
The point is, the cover shows her outside her house on Earth in a chainmail bikini. I hate it when that happens.
Granted, this is based off of a short story in the (also very fun) anthology Chicks in Chainmail (about the neglected female fantasy warrior -- don't yell at me, girls, the editor who picked this title was the same gender as you are!) so it shows it's connected. But still . . . .
I don't mind abstractions (like on the cover of Canticle) that are plainly not scenes, but when they do something like this, as spectacular event, can't they pick one from the book? One that actually happens? |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Zaknafein
Seeker
USA
77 Posts |
Posted - 26 May 2003 : 22:38:35
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| who knows why cover art was so poor back then...maybe because TSR was already going downhill when Wizards picked it up, and their number one priority might not have been good cover art...who knows |
Zaknafein Do'Urden: mentor, teacher, friend....To Zak, the one who inspired my courage. -Drizzt Do'Urden
Full plate and packing steel. |
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Mythander
Learned Scribe
USA
121 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2003 : 20:31:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Rad
quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
sigh -_-" Rad, Rad, Rad, Rad, Rad . . . .
Yeah yeah, I know I have learnt my lesson though, no more judging a book by its cover
I agree but some covers can be so bad that you don't want to read them in public. Take the cover of a Giant Among Us by Troy Denning. Good book, but I could not look at the cover it was so ridiculous. The main Character supposed to be a Firebolg looked like the Crocodile hunter and don't get me started on the poor excuse for an Etten. |
Wow! That has no saving throw written all over it. |
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Lina
Senior Scribe
Australia
469 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2003 : 10:59:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Zaknafein
i cant argue with you Rad...it shouldnt but to me if affects me by whether i should read it or not. "can't judge a book by its cover" is true, but a good illustration really helps.
I agree with Zaknafein but the illustration of Drizzt does look shocking (short and old) in the Dark elf triology. Dark elves are a subrace of Elves and we all know that elves are the most beautiful humanoids in the realm with everything in proportion. The fact that dark elves are meant to be evil and live underground should not have changed their appearance much, with the exception of skin colour and eyes to adapt to living underground. The illustration clearly does not do the dark elves any justice and if that's what they look like I'd hate to see an illustration of a normal human. |
“Darkness beyond twilight, crimson beyond blood that flows! Buried in the flow of time. In thy great name. I pledge myself to darkness. All the fools who stand in our way shall be destroyed…by the power you and I possess! DRAGON SLAVE!!!”
"Thieves? Ah, such an ugly word... look upon them as the most honest sort of merchant."
-Oglar the Thieflord |
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William of Waterdeep
Senior Scribe
USA
829 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2003 : 20:15:29
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Actually some of the art work is the main reason I didn't read the Realms novels for a while.I did judge the books by the cover.
Silly me!!! I should have known that I wasn't buying art, but works
of art inside the cover. |
Courage isn't the lack of fear but rather believing in and doing what you know is right even though fear is present.
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Edited by - William of Waterdeep on 21 Sep 2003 00:22:27 |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2003 : 00:52:17
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| Interestingly enough, one of my favorite pieces of FR art is the original cover to Tangled Webs. I hate the cover of Daughter of the Drow, but I hate Todd Lockwood's revised covers even more! I must agree, however, that the artwork has definitely improved since then on average. Note: I don't hate Todd Lockwood's art, I like it quite a bit in fact, I just hate his portrayals of Liriel. |
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Lina
Senior Scribe
Australia
469 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2003 : 05:25:21
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quote:
Originally posted by William of Waterdeep
Actually some of the art work is the main reason I didn't read the Realms novels for a while.I did judge the books by the cover.
Silly me!!! I should have known that I wasn't buying art, but works
of art inside the cover.
Thats the way to go! I myself have developed a way to pick a book which is as good as gold. I turn a blind eye to the illustrations of a book, read the back and skim through the first few pages and if I like it then nothing comes between me and owning that book (except money of course). |
“Darkness beyond twilight, crimson beyond blood that flows! Buried in the flow of time. In thy great name. I pledge myself to darkness. All the fools who stand in our way shall be destroyed…by the power you and I possess! DRAGON SLAVE!!!”
"Thieves? Ah, such an ugly word... look upon them as the most honest sort of merchant."
-Oglar the Thieflord |
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William of Waterdeep
Senior Scribe
USA
829 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2003 : 18:29:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Lina
Thats the way to go! I myself have developed a way to pick a book which is as good as gold. I turn a blind eye to the illustrations of a book, read the back and skim through the first few pages and if I like it then nothing comes between me and owning that book (except money of course).
Lina,Thats pretty much how I do it with the exception of the FR and PS
novels I have bought online,Its pretty much blind faith.I want to have a complete collection though like I did in *BG1.(*In the BG game
I read all of the books and started my own library in the top of the tower in the city of Baldur's Gate.I know thats silly I suppose but I
always wanted a complete library like that.) |
Courage isn't the lack of fear but rather believing in and doing what you know is right even though fear is present.
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Fibura Gauntlet
Seeker
United Kingdom
50 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2003 : 12:05:26
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I saw the title of this topic and was quite surprised to find it wasn't about the cover of Azure Bonds. Now there was a chick in chainmail for you 
That sort of art used to be the bane of my life when I was a teenager checking about 8 books out of the library with a range of ladies in various states of undress on the covers 
"No really, they are about elves and wizards!" |
- Fibura Gauntlet
A scrib(bl)e on the margins of Candlekeep |
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William of Waterdeep
Senior Scribe
USA
829 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2003 : 17:08:38
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I have always thought of Drizzt as some have already posted,as a handsome,wiry dark Elf unlike the art but the description in Hall of
Heroes made change my image of him a little.I thought he would be taller than 5'4".
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Courage isn't the lack of fear but rather believing in and doing what you know is right even though fear is present.
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fanatic
Acolyte
Austria
34 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2003 : 12:32:15
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the big problem with cover illusions is that peoble imagine their heros, so when you see a picture of someone your illusions can be destroyed.
it´s the same with movies.
who imagined the face of elija woods as frodo´s.
by the way i think the actors of the lotr movie are very fitting. |
even fantasy has it´s limits
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William of Waterdeep
Senior Scribe
USA
829 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2003 : 00:01:12
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Yes,that is very true Fanatic! That is why we picture certain actors
playing in different roles.Actors too can be like those book covers
and fool us.Instead of don't judge a book by its cover, I think that the better saying is Don't be fooled by outward appearances.
Judge anything or anyone by the inside that you have gotten to know
rather than what (he/she/it/they) look like.
Tomorrows lesson is on sharing,boys and girls. |
Courage isn't the lack of fear but rather believing in and doing what you know is right even though fear is present.
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Lina
Senior Scribe
Australia
469 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2003 : 14:26:07
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| Another reason maybe that the illustration of the character doesn't fit with the author's description of the character. So when we imagine what the character looks like from the authors description we get disapponted with the illustration which doesn't match the image in our mind. Solution - maybe get the author to do the cover illustration (that's if stick figures aren't involved) |
“Darkness beyond twilight, crimson beyond blood that flows! Buried in the flow of time. In thy great name. I pledge myself to darkness. All the fools who stand in our way shall be destroyed…by the power you and I possess! DRAGON SLAVE!!!”
"Thieves? Ah, such an ugly word... look upon them as the most honest sort of merchant."
-Oglar the Thieflord |
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William of Waterdeep
Senior Scribe
USA
829 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2003 : 02:33:18
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Lina, I agree but some writers probably would go with the stick men. Well as you know by reading my postings filled with poor grammer,bad spelling and worse (punks in a situation)punctuation;That I am not a writer. I am worse as an artist, believe me.So I guess I have no right to be a critic but why don't they have fans of the Realms send work in and perhaps they would come closer to our perception. |
Courage isn't the lack of fear but rather believing in and doing what you know is right even though fear is present.
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Lina
Senior Scribe
Australia
469 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2003 : 11:24:19
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Yes that would be a great thing. Imagine all the interesting and creative ideas that would be brought up. Doesn't Candlekeep already have a page where fans send their work in? The FR Portal has a site where fans can submit their work, you should try reading some http://www.masterao.com/forum/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=28
Don't beat up yourself about having talents elsewhere. Look at it this way, a handfull of critics may have good literary and artistic skills themselves but most become critics due to their knowledge in the area. |
“Darkness beyond twilight, crimson beyond blood that flows! Buried in the flow of time. In thy great name. I pledge myself to darkness. All the fools who stand in our way shall be destroyed…by the power you and I possess! DRAGON SLAVE!!!”
"Thieves? Ah, such an ugly word... look upon them as the most honest sort of merchant."
-Oglar the Thieflord |
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William of Waterdeep
Senior Scribe
USA
829 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2003 : 17:36:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Lina
Yes that would be a great thing. Imagine all the interesting and creative ideas that would be brought up. Doesn't Candlekeep already have a page where fans send their work in? The FR Portal has a site where fans can submit their work, you should try reading some http://www.masterao.com/forum/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=28
Don't beat up yourself about having talents elsewhere. Look at it this way, a handfull of critics may have good literary and artistic skills themselves but most become critics due to their knowledge in the area.
Thanks for the kind words and the link.I don't know that I am actually
beating myself up though as much as just being totally honest.I know
I have skills.....For example, I...no let me think,Oh I know..How about..no thats not a talent either.Talking? if you can consider
it a talent,I can talk the brass horns off a billy goat.
I also see humor in everything but tragic events.
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Courage isn't the lack of fear but rather believing in and doing what you know is right even though fear is present.
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Lina
Senior Scribe
Australia
469 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2003 : 13:42:54
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| Well you've got one over me already. I consider myself somewhat akin to a hermit/scribe... loves to read, gather info, only comes out to the "cave" to socialise when necessary |
“Darkness beyond twilight, crimson beyond blood that flows! Buried in the flow of time. In thy great name. I pledge myself to darkness. All the fools who stand in our way shall be destroyed…by the power you and I possess! DRAGON SLAVE!!!”
"Thieves? Ah, such an ugly word... look upon them as the most honest sort of merchant."
-Oglar the Thieflord |
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William of Waterdeep
Senior Scribe
USA
829 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2003 : 04:26:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Lina
Well you've got one over me already. I consider myself somewhat akin to a hermit/scribe... loves to read, gather info, only comes out to the "cave" to socialise when necessary
I am that way too as far as meeting people,I like people but would rather avoid them and be alone.
I have been thrown into a position due to to recent events that have forced me to make changes.I am a college student after being out of school for many, many eons years.I made friends fast(as ugly as I am)so perhaps my personality is still intact after all this time.I think the person behind Lina is probably like the one behind
the Waterdhavian named William;Probably someone most people would like
and certainly smarter than the big oaf behind William.I wish I could
meet some of these people in this forum,I think I would be comfortable
enough to carry on a conversation.If Lina happened to be there then
I'm sure I would especially enjoy conversation with her,If she could
understand my Georgia accent. |
Courage isn't the lack of fear but rather believing in and doing what you know is right even though fear is present.
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Lina
Senior Scribe
Australia
469 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2003 : 03:44:59
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quote:
Originally posted by William of Waterdeep
quote:
Originally posted by Lina
Well you've got one over me already. I consider myself somewhat akin to a hermit/scribe... loves to read, gather info, only comes out to the "cave" to socialise when necessary
I am that way too as far as meeting people,I like people but would rather avoid them and be alone.
I have been thrown into a position due to to recent events that have forced me to make changes.I am a college student after being out of school for many, many eons years.I made friends fast(as ugly as I am)so perhaps my personality is still intact after all this time.I think the person behind Lina is probably like the one behind
the Waterdhavian named William;Probably someone most people would like
and certainly smarter than the big oaf behind William.I wish I could
meet some of these people in this forum,I think I would be comfortable
enough to carry on a conversation.If Lina happened to be there then
I'm sure I would especially enjoy conversation with her,If she could
understand my Georgia accent.
I am unacquainted with this William character you speak of. However I am flattered with the compliment. Mayhap it is that you base yourself on that character with added brains and charisma.
Meeting some people on this forum is easier said than done... due to the vast ocean that separates some of us well have to stick with the net for now. |
“Darkness beyond twilight, crimson beyond blood that flows! Buried in the flow of time. In thy great name. I pledge myself to darkness. All the fools who stand in our way shall be destroyed…by the power you and I possess! DRAGON SLAVE!!!”
"Thieves? Ah, such an ugly word... look upon them as the most honest sort of merchant."
-Oglar the Thieflord |
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William of Waterdeep
Senior Scribe
USA
829 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2003 : 06:04:08
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No, my half Orc character has more brains than myself.
Yes,there are oceans for sure and some have water. |
Courage isn't the lack of fear but rather believing in and doing what you know is right even though fear is present.
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Not too sure about the cover...
