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Beppe63
Acolyte
Italy
43 Posts |
 Posted - 18 Oct 2007 : 21:10:10
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Hi at all,
I post one at year, maybe, but I lurk all the time! ^__^
Two questions, please:
Why Loudwater is also called the City of Grottos?
There's any novel where find a description of Loudwater?
Thanks in advance.
Bye
Beppe63
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Bye.
Beppe63 |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2007 : 22:30:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Beppe63
Hi at all,
I post one at year, maybe, but I lurk all the time! ^__^
Two questions, please:
Why Loudwater is also called the City of Grottos?
There's any novel where find a description of Loudwater?
Thanks in advance.
Bye
Beppe63
Well met!
I think you mean the 'City of Groves'? Grottos would imply that the city is built within caverns, but I distinctly remember Loudwater having many groves (and being called 'City of Groves'). |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
Edited by - Asgetrion on 18 Oct 2007 22:56:18 |
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Beppe63
Acolyte
Italy
43 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2007 : 23:00:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
Well met!
I think you mean the 'City of Groves'?
Greetings,
I find the 'City of Grottos' definition inside the RPGA adventures The Green Regent... where you find 'City of Groves'? |
Bye.
Beppe63 |
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AlorinDawn
Learned Scribe
USA
313 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2007 : 03:19:01
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| The best decription of Loudwater would be The North, a 2nd edition boxed set you DL for free from WotC, and Volo's Guide to the North. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36965 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2007 : 04:05:15
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quote:
Originally posted by AlorinDawn
The best decription of Loudwater would be The North, a 2nd edition boxed set you DL for free from WotC, and Volo's Guide to the North.
And the link to where The North and a whole lotta other free stuff can be found is: the Wizards downloads page. 
And hey! Post number 11111! 
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 19 Oct 2007 04:05:38 |
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Beppe63
Acolyte
Italy
43 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2007 : 08:01:19
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quote:
Originally posted by AlorinDawn
The best decription of Loudwater would be The North, a 2nd edition boxed set you DL for free from WotC, and Volo's Guide to the North.
Thanks, for the information, but I own all the FR products pubblished until now and I know where to find informations on Loudwater.
What I search is a literal description inside a novel that I can use as introduction for players that arrive for the first time in the city.
Bye Beppe63 |
Bye.
Beppe63 |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2007 : 10:41:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Beppe63
quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
Well met!
I think you mean the 'City of Groves'?
Greetings,
I find the 'City of Grottos' definition inside the RPGA adventures The Green Regent... where you find 'City of Groves'?
I may have seen it in the Volo's Guide? Anyway, I think that the City of Grottos was some kind of misunderstanding -- one of the RPGA designers just confused the words with each other. I definitely do not remember any of the sources mentioning any caves or caverns in the city, but I think there were some groves (parks). |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2012 : 17:13:06
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*** Raise Scroll ***
So here I am, trying to finish my map of The North (which I've been avoiding for the past week), and I came across the 3e description of Loudwater (in the Campaign Guide). I thought I made an error - it is described as a "small city" of about 8000 people. I double-check the 2e sources and there was only 4000 people there - a large town, but certainly no city. Obviously the town is 'up and coming' and grew quite a bit in 25 years. Since the map is supposed to be accurate as of the start of the 3e era, I should use the icon for a small city. But then I ran into a new problem.
I decided to check the 4e source (did I just hear a collective groan?), since Loudwater is featured prominently in the FRCG. Not only does it described it as a town of 2000, but it also provides a map. 
Okay... so they lost some population in the 'century of madness' (or whatever). But look at the map - I don't see any indication of damage, or it being a bigger settlement at one time. It was also supposed to be on both sides of the river in 1e/2e. The town shrunk without any visible signs of how or why. Are there ruins on the other side of the river? Where do those 2000 people live? (because the town depicted in that map ain't housing no 2000 people!) Are some of the folk living in the (theoretical) ruins? If so, why are people in the walled section so mean? Are they using the poor people living in those ruins as a supplementary food source, and they keep this fact hidden from prying eyes, like those of us who are reading the sourcebooks?
And did the groves die-off after the earth opened up and they became grottos? Is that what happened to the other half of the town? Inquiring minds want to know! |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 29 Nov 2012 17:14:02 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6688 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2012 : 23:23:57
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Never ask a question that you don't really want to hear the answer to ...
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2012 : 00:06:00
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The map presented in the 4e FRCG isn't terribly accurate, I don't think. It's an abstraction for use in the game.
But even if we take it at face-value, then probably what the map represents is the "main settlement" of Loudwater, housing maybe 400 people, with the rest of them living outside the city walls on farms or in the woodlands. I also don't think it's too difficult to imagine there were ruins elsewhere (across the river, built over, etc) from when the town was larger than it is today.
It's also quite feasible that *originally* Loudwater existed slightly removed from its current (1480s) site, and was just rebuilt and rechristened at some point in the intervening century. This would offer a slick explanation for why the town is smaller than it used to be, and also help with any inconsistencies on the map.
Eh?
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Regcod
Acolyte
Italy
28 Posts |
Posted - 27 May 2014 : 09:31:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by AlorinDawn
The best decription of Loudwater would be The North, a 2nd edition boxed set you DL for free from WotC, and Volo's Guide to the North.
And the link to where The North and a whole lotta other free stuff can be found is: the Wizards downloads page.
And hey! Post number 11111!
Do you know where I can find the wotc download page for older products? I can't find anymore :( Thank you |
"Sweet water and light laughter until next we meet." |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6688 Posts |
Posted - 27 May 2014 : 09:43:38
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I'm sure it is now a blind link. Wooly had the secret a while back IIRC on how to access it. The download page still exists as I recall.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Regcod
Acolyte
Italy
28 Posts |
Posted - 27 May 2014 : 10:09:53
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| Wooly I'm in your hand now, please!!!!! ;) |
"Sweet water and light laughter until next we meet." |
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crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1073 Posts |
Posted - 27 May 2014 : 10:55:05
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http://web.archive.org/web/20070222063741/http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frx/20050428a
That should work for the North Box set
Edit: hmmm the link splits into two seperate urls? - suggest you copy each and paste together into your browser to see if that works?
BTW you can access other archive's from the wizards site via the links on the left when you get the page up and running
Cheers
Damian |
So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005 |
Edited by - crazedventurers on 27 May 2014 11:00:55 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36965 Posts |
Posted - 27 May 2014 : 11:07:57
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
I'm sure it is now a blind link. Wooly had the secret a while back IIRC on how to access it. The download page still exists as I recall.
-- George Krashos
I no longer have that secret... They move stuff around so much, I've not been able to find if the files are still there or not. I've got direct URLs to where the files were, and they are not there any more.
CV's trick should work, though. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Regcod
Acolyte
Italy
28 Posts |
Posted - 27 May 2014 : 12:04:11
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quote:
Originally posted by crazedventurers
http://web.archive.org/web/20070222063741/http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frx/20050428a
That should work for the North Box set
Edit: hmmm the link splits into two seperate urls? - suggest you copy each and paste together into your browser to see if that works?
BTW you can access other archive's from the wizards site via the links on the left when you get the page up and running
Cheers
Damian
Yes, that's the older page I knew!!! Thank you  |
"Sweet water and light laughter until next we meet." |
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1155 Posts |
Posted - 27 May 2014 : 15:14:44
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Loudwater was indeed the 'City of Grottos'. The city was divided up into areas that were called grottos such as Tragedy's Grotto and Duelist's Grotto (a list of all the grottos was never published). Parts of the city were indeed build atop underground caverns but it's never mentioned if this is the reason for the moniker.
Loudwater in 1479 is indeed smaller than it was in 1373. I'd theorise that the part of the city on the north bank, which was the predominently elven/magical part of the city, was lost during the Spellplague (the south bank housed the warehouses and the lower-rent human homes/businesses. However, rather than the earthen rampart that defended it in 1373, it has an actual stone wall in 1479. |
When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.
Head admin of the FR wiki:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/ |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36965 Posts |
Posted - 27 May 2014 : 16:59:38
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| And isn't it now prone to being attacked by a dozen goblins in broad daylight? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4487 Posts |
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Duneth Despana
Learned Scribe
Belgium
273 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2015 : 23:33:10
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quote:
Originally posted by hashimashadoo
Loudwater was indeed the 'City of Grottos'. The city was divided up into areas that were called grottos such as Tragedy's Grotto and Duelist's Grotto (a list of all the grottos was never published). Parts of the city were indeed build atop underground caverns but it's never mentioned if this is the reason for the moniker.
Oooh! Where did you find the info about Tragedy's Grotto and Duelist's Grotto? (the network is called the Undercaverns IIRC) |
« There is no overriding « epic » in the Realms, but rather a large number of stories, adventures, and encounters going on all the time. [...]. Each creative mind adds to the base, creating, defining, and making their contribution to the rich diversity of the Realms. [...]. But Ed built the stage upon which all the plays are presented. Thanks Ed. » -FR Comic no.1
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1155 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2015 : 00:18:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Duneth Despana
quote:
Originally posted by hashimashadoo
Loudwater was indeed the 'City of Grottos'. The city was divided up into areas that were called grottos such as Tragedy's Grotto and Duelist's Grotto (a list of all the grottos was never published). Parts of the city were indeed build atop underground caverns but it's never mentioned if this is the reason for the moniker.
Oooh! Where did you find the info about Tragedy's Grotto and Duelist's Grotto? (the network is called the Undercaverns IIRC)
There was an entire RPGA campaign based (mostly) in Loudwater. There was a good amount of information about the city but unfortunately no map of the city's layout.
I liken the place to Neverwinter, no map ever given before 4th edition and when we finally got a 4e map, there had been significant changes to its layout.
While there was an 'Undercavern' on one of that campaign's modules, I don't think that was an appellation given to the entire network. All I can say is that most of those caves connected to a portion of the Underdark known as the 'Flayer’s Corridors'. |
When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.
Head admin of the FR wiki:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/ |
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Loudwater
