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Dargos
Acolyte
3 Posts |
 Posted - 06 Oct 2007 : 15:17:28
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AFAIK, there are several inconsistencies when it comes to Realmsian gods
abilities and activities in novels.
DEATH: 1.Supposedly False and Faithless end up in the Realm of the God of the Dead.Yet Zaknafein who did not follow Lolth or anyone else apparently did not go there after his death.
POWER: 2. Power of gods is supposed to depend on the number and faith of
a godīs followers. Yet Lolth became Greater Power despite long absence.
Also Cyric has more followers than Mystra, yet Greenwood says Mystra is far more powerful than anyone except Ao.
CHOICE: 3. Gods are supposed to compete for worshippers, yet Cyric was allowed to use CYRINISHAD on mortals.
INTERFERENCE 4. Mystra was not allowed to rescue followers of other gods, yet she cast truth spell on Malik.
PORTFOLIO 5. Mystra was chastised for going outside her portfolio of magic, yet Chauntea interfered with Bhaalīs plans.
Is there anyway to determine what gods are allowed to do and what they can never do ?
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4687 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2007 : 16:02:41
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The ways of gods are beyound understanding of mere mortals. That is what Ed has said a few times. Motals describe the deities to the best of their understanding.
Now for posible answers.
1) It is posible he did have faith in a deity or a deity choose to interven. Alll know more then one deity even if they do not public follow could be followers in hreat and mind, prehaps even subcousionly.
2) It has been very clear that Divine rank is not dependent on just the number of followwers, if that was true AO would likely be a demi god. The number of followers is one factor of rank, others appear to include how devoted followers are, the profolios controled and alliances might be a factor.
Not that I believe Lolth should have been elevated and I never saw that verified, Paul IIRC indicated that was his understanding is the last I read. The ability to rip the Demonweb from the abyses and creat a new plane clearly is a indication of greater power that she gained durring the Silence.
3, 4 & 5) So gods cheat from time to time, deities do not watch closely every follower so ittends to indicate AO does not watch every deity closely.
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"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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BlackAce
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
358 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2007 : 17:23:54
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I'll try offer my thoughts as best I can and address your points firstly...
quote:
Originally posted by Dargos
DEATH: 1.Supposedly False and Faithless end up in the Realm of the God of the Dead.Yet Zaknafein who did not follow Lolth or anyone else apparently did not go there after his death.
We never saw what/who Zak put his faith in only that he hated the worship of Lolth. (Vhaeraun maybe?)
quote:
POWER: 2. Power of gods is supposed to depend on the number and faith of
a godīs followers. Yet Lolth became Greater Power despite long absence.
Lolths priestesses and the matron mother's power and position depend soley on the power of Lolth herself. Their very existence needed Lolth's devine power. When she stopped answering their prayers, they didn't lose faith in her, they prayed harder.
quote:
Also Cyric has more followers than Mystra, yet Greenwood says Mystra is far more powerful than anyone except Ao.
CHOICE: 3. Gods are supposed to compete for worshippers, yet Cyric was allowed to use CYRINISHAD on mortals.
Which was true. But in the end the only person who read the Cyrinishad was Cyric himself. It drove him mad, he lost alot of his power and many of his faithful deserted him first for Xvim, then for Bane. (They had only really been faithful to him 'cause Bane was dead anyway.)
quote:
INTERFERENCE 4. Mystra was not allowed to rescue followers of other gods, yet she cast truth spell on Malik.
She got smacked on the wrist by Ao for trying to use her devine power to help people and be good, which was not a tennet of her portfolio (Dead mystra was strictly neutral; [I don't care what you do with magic as long as it doesn't make people hate magic.])
quote:
PORTFOLIO 5. Mystra was chastised for going outside her portfolio of magic, yet Chauntea interfered with Bhaalīs plans.
Absolutely nothing says the gods can't interfer whith another gods worshippers/followers/plans.
As long as they do the job Ao raised them to do. Loviatar beating the snot out of Ilmater that perfectly in line with their respective portfolios.
Mask trying to steal something from Helm? Same.
Talos making something? "Bad Talos, that's Gonds job," screams Ao
Eldath decking Sune? "Go to your room, young lady!"
quote:
Is there anyway to determine what gods are allowed to do and what they can never do ?
You get the idea... The gods are supposed to be the epitome of their own portfolios. When they act 'out of character', Ao lays on the pimpslaps.
But there's absolutely nothing stopping them persuing their own agendas and even interring with another god's plans if it's within the bounds of their remit.
(Edit for more erudition and fewer typos.) |
Edited by - BlackAce on 06 Oct 2007 17:40:01 |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2007 : 18:06:59
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Even as the Avatar novels influenced the way the gods of Faerûn are defined in the lore, they're also sometimes free with it for their own purposes. The gods overtly doing things and talking to each other is, pace 1385 DR events, itself a literary conceit. So some of these may be real (though resolvable) inconsistencies, others not.quote:
Originally posted by Dargos
POWER: 2. Power of gods is supposed to depend on the number and faith of a godīs followers.
As Kentinal says, it partly depends on quantity of worship, both before and after the Time of Troubles; the unqualified statements are just oversimplifications.quote:
Is there anyway to determine what gods are allowed to do and what they can never do ?
No. Ed and most of the other designers have been careful not to lay down the exact parameters of what gods are 'allowed' to do or what determines their power, because it's a matter unknown and fundamentally unknowable to mortals, and something that players shouldn't be second guessing. So Faiths & Avatars:quote:
The mechanism is totally transparent to mortals, and while the powers can guess roughly how it works, they cannot discern its precise nature or its quirks so as to exploit any divine loopholes.
Ed, e.g.:quote:
It means that mortals 'know' lots of things about the gods that are just plain untrue, because gods lie to them, priests lie to them (sometimes unwittingly, through passing on church doctrine they don't know to be false or invented by a priest sitting nearby or of a previous century or three), and rumors distort everything, leading to 'common folk knowledge' that says a lot of things about the gods that aren't true. After all, almost everything we know about the Realms has come to us from Elminster -- and how do we know HE'S been straight with us, all or even part of the time?
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Edited by - Faraer on 06 Oct 2007 18:07:51 |
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Gods & Inconsistencies.
