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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
 Posted - 04 May 2004 : 01:15:08
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I'm sure that Troy Denning writes books that WotC let him write. In other words, they come up with the overall plan and he writes to suit. I'm sure he couldn't have obliterated Tilverton without the sanction of someone like Phil Athans who very much sounds like he's got a "The buck stops here" sign on the front of his desk. But since his novel dept. is the cash cow of the Realms, no-one quibbles too much with the creative directions he and others take. Certainly the gaming line don't have as much pull as the novels and it appears that their synergy is a little out of whack at the moment (ala the everlasting release of the War of the Spider Queen novels viz a viz the game products - such as they were - that dealt with this issue).
However, for every RSE novel out there (and The Rage appears to continue this trend ... ) there are novels like the Sembia series and Crimson Gold that deal with people, places and events without the need to change the "order of things" or invalidate gaming resources. They are constructive FR novels not destructive FR novels. When thinking about the Realms as a whole (both for gaming and fiction) I know which I prefer to put on my book shelf.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Abizoath
Acolyte
4 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2004 : 02:07:37
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| Larloch is probaly hands down the most powerful known wizard currently, though Ioulaum just may be more powerful than him. In terms of storyline and gameplay mechanics Elminster would go down pretty fast against Larloch, and in a battle with Telemont, Ed said that Larloch would probaly win, though the battle would likely never happen as he said that Larloch simply would not show up to fight him. As for the rest of the Chosen of Mystra, Larloch would hand them their asses on a platter in a fight, but once again, this fight would never happen, as Ed stated that Larloch knows the goals of the Chosen of Mystra, and therefore does not do anything to get in their way. |
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Darkheyr
Learned Scribe
264 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2004 : 07:26:57
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Sadly, Larloch got nerfed down pretty good, so Elminster is at least equal, if not better than him.
Telamont is, levelwise, the most powerfull spellcaster in the realms. 35 levels plus the Shade level adjustments and all other things, I'd put his CR beyond 40, definitly.
And Elminster isnt the oldest wizard alive. Not even close. That honour belongs to Larloch and Telamont. |
silm.pw - A Neverwinter Nights Persistent World |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2004 : 21:11:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Darkheyr
And Elminster isnt the oldest wizard alive. Not even close. That honour belongs to Larloch and Telamont.
Actually that honor goes to Halaster since he is most likely from Imaskari which existed before Netheril. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2004 : 21:24:36
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| Darkheyr, Elminster isn't Larloch's equal. Larloch could defeat Elminster since the Lich King is level 32 while the Sage of Shadowdale is only a level 20 wizard with levels in other classes. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Senbar Flay
Learned Scribe
185 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2004 : 01:54:45
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While Larlock is a higher level he has several disadvantages first of all he is not one of Mystra's Chosen and does not have all the perks one of them would have. Another while he is epic more then Elminster he has nor archmage levels witch grant a lot more helpful abilities. he also has the Harpers to back him and if you add his wizard level archmage level and epic level it is aactually 29 witch is pretty close. Another thing is if you look at his accomplishments he has defeated amny foes while the odds were aginst him. Overall I think Azuth was the most powerful in HISTORY due to the fact he was the first Magister and achieved godhood without sponsership unlike Velsharoon. |
Imagination is more important than knowledge for knowledge is limited imagination encircles the world.- Albert Einstein |
Edited by - Senbar Flay on 06 May 2004 02:01:31 |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2004 : 06:27:23
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Senbar, being Mystra's Chosen doesn't automatically make you invincible. Hell, Elminster is the most powerful Chosen and he almost died at the hands of Nergal.
Also, if you are going to include back up like the Harpers, then look at what Larloch has. He is served by over 60 liches who were all archmages, okay? They don't call him the Lich-King for nothing... |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Senbar Flay
Learned Scribe
185 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2004 : 00:01:19
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Good point the Shadow king is probabley stronger I still like Elimnster though an while being Mystra's Chosen does not make invincible It does offer the abillity to choose special abilities and use them once per day that is the perks I was talking about. Larloch also did some rituals to allow some powers of his own so he would probabley win. |
Imagination is more important than knowledge for knowledge is limited imagination encircles the world.- Albert Einstein |
Edited by - Senbar Flay on 07 May 2004 00:07:15 |
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D-brane
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
140 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2004 : 07:38:08
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Senbar, other than Amahl Farouk, I know of no Shadow King in the Realms. Who is it, that you are talking about?.
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"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." |
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Wood Elf Ranger
Senior Scribe
USA
627 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2004 : 16:07:20
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Well Sage mentioned the mortal Azuth earlier in this scroll. But what about the gods themselves since they have been statted in FaP? Or even their avatars. Wouldn't Azuths avatar be the most powerful wizard on Faerun?  |
~Lee N.
"Breaktime yes?!.. Yes?.. Maybe?.. Noo, baaack to work.." -Grovel the Goblin from NWN: HotU |
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Wood Elf Ranger
Senior Scribe
USA
627 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2004 : 16:15:37
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quote:
Originally posted by D-brane
Senbar, other than Amahl Farouk, I know of no Shadow King in the Realms. Who is it, that you are talking about?.
Just from carefully reading and re-reading what Senbar wrote I believe he was talking about Larloch, though I could be wrong. |
~Lee N.
"Breaktime yes?!.. Yes?.. Maybe?.. Noo, baaack to work.." -Grovel the Goblin from NWN: HotU |
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Senbar Flay
Learned Scribe
185 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2004 : 21:58:44
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| Yes I wa talking about Larloch as he is caled the Shadow King in the Lords of Darkness. |
Imagination is more important than knowledge for knowledge is limited imagination encircles the world.- Albert Einstein |
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Gothmog
Acolyte
15 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2004 : 18:49:36
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| What about the mage-kings of Imaskar? |
Anar Caluva Tielyanna |
Edited by - Gothmog on 14 May 2004 18:50:17 |
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Senbar Flay
Learned Scribe
185 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2004 : 01:25:01
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| I would imagine certain mages of Imasker are powerful the only one I know of is Halaster(if he is Imaskari) But since they created great magics even before the time of Netheril I think they may be quite powerful. |
Imagination is more important than knowledge for knowledge is limited imagination encircles the world.- Albert Einstein |
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Darkhope
Acolyte
9 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2005 : 03:10:22
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quote:
And Elminster isnt the oldest wizard alive. Not even close. That honour belongs to Larloch and Telamont.
No, they pale in comparison to Ioulaum and Halaster's real age. Both rival 4,000 years. And Ioulaum is hands down most powerful spellcaster in the realms, and imho most powerful non-divine being. He could actually kill a few lesser gods if he so desired. 31 wizard/ 5 archmage/ 5 netherese arcanist/ and an ElderBrain Lich. Thats 72 HD! So he casts as a 20+ level psion and 41+ level caster. He'd make Larloch a smoking crater on a 1 on 1 match. But it would never happen, Larloch has way to many minions for anyone to mess with him.
Just my 2 cents. |
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2005 : 04:06:10
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| I say Telamont Tanthul is among the powerful wizards of the realms. A formidable mage he is indeed. |
We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2005 : 05:04:59
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| Darkhope, I don't think Ioulaum is good enough to take on lesser deities. He could probably give them a challenge, but not enough to take them on and destroy them. Deities have their divine abilities, divine immunities, and also a large list of spell-like abilities that rivals a powerful archmage. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2005 : 15:25:29
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| How powerful do you think this "Sojourner" from the erevis cale trilogy is? SPOILER He remembers wiping out dragonflights and boiling worlds like it was a walk in the park. Also, he is probably VERY old. And last, does anyone know what he is? An astral deva he speaks to says:(quote)"What type of creature are you? Neither Githyanki nor Githzerai, but...similar."(unquote) |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Darkhope
Acolyte
9 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2005 : 17:40:11
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Darkhope, I don't think Ioulaum is good enough to take on lesser deities. He could probably give them a challenge, but not enough to take them on and destroy them. Deities have their divine abilities, divine immunities, and also a large list of spell-like abilities that rivals a powerful archmage.
He's the same power as Azuth and he took out sarvas, a lesser deity. Ioulaum could easily take out Shaundakul,Uthgar, Waukeen, Torm, and Eilistraee as long as it was out of their personal divine realms. |
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koka-bold lich
Acolyte
Brazil
3 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2005 : 18:15:27
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Terraser, no doubt. He's a lich member of an race of ancient and powerfull reptilians and mage 35º in AD&D.
But Sammaster for ever gonna be my favorite.
Again, sorry for the english. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2005 : 23:46:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Darkhope
quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Darkhope, I don't think Ioulaum is good enough to take on lesser deities. He could probably give them a challenge, but not enough to take them on and destroy them. Deities have their divine abilities, divine immunities, and also a large list of spell-like abilities that rivals a powerful archmage.
He's the same power as Azuth and he took out sarvas, a lesser deity. Ioulaum could easily take out Shaundakul,Uthgar, Waukeen, Torm, and Eilistraee as long as it was out of their personal divine realms.
Savras was imprisoned, not taken out. And since Azuth became a deity shortly after, then it's possible he was already being prepped for godhood when he battled Savras.
And all any of the deities you mention would have to do is drop an antimagic shell or something like that, and Ioulaum isn't doing too much of anything. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Darkhope
Acolyte
9 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2005 : 02:20:23
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quote:
And all any of the deities you mention would have to do is drop an antimagic shell or something like that, and Ioulaum isn't doing too much of anything.
None of those deity's saves are high enough to bother Ioulaum. He's 72 hit dice creature. His saves are 40+. The deity's I named are all lesser gods and weak vs a spellcaster of his power. Gods are not indestructable and there are mortal beings that can kill gods. I can't stand it when people see gods as indestructable entity's that cannot be killed except by other gods. PC's in large epic games rival gods in power and can take them out if planned properly. But regardless we could debate this another day, my point was to refute that Larloch and Telamont were the oldest spellcasters alive today and thats incorrect. Ioulaum and Halaster have serveral millinea on either of them. |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2005 : 02:40:59
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| Darkhope... yet you keep forgetting about the divine immunities, divine abilties which are the things that make epic mortals hesitate about challenging them. Having 40+ saves aren't too special when you are comparing to deities. In fact, one of the deities you mentioned, Eilistraee; has Fort +46, Ref +57, and Will +46. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Darkhope
Acolyte
9 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2005 : 17:58:02
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| The advantages of epic spells DDH, the saving throws can be cranked up by altering the spellcraft DC. Ioulaum can easily hit +150 spellcraft epic spell DC's. And as far as immunities he can alter the type of dmg of any spell to something they aren't immune to or just make it pure arcane energy where there is no immunity. But I'll say again, you wanna debate this start another thread, this one was for oldest/most powerful wizards. Ioulaum and Halaster are my picks. Both are 4,000 years old. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2005 : 21:40:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Darkhope
The advantages of epic spells DDH, the saving throws can be cranked up by altering the spellcraft DC. Ioulaum can easily hit +150 spellcraft epic spell DC's. And as far as immunities he can alter the type of dmg of any spell to something they aren't immune to or just make it pure arcane energy where there is no immunity. But I'll say again, you wanna debate this start another thread, this one was for oldest/most powerful wizards. Ioulaum and Halaster are my picks. Both are 4,000 years old.
If he could so casually wipe out a god, then why hasn't he done so? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2005 : 03:51:53
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Why is it that as soon as someone becomes "powerful", that they instantly have to challenge the gods? Like it's fun being a god - incessant yapping, constant demands, intercessions - sounds too much like work to me.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Karesch
Learned Scribe
Canada
199 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2005 : 04:09:03
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Just as an addition of a poor ol' fighter/mage's 2 cents... as far as raw numbers saves vs save dc's, on a straight out swapping of spells, chance encounter, yes, perhaps Ioulaum, if he was lucky enough to have himself set just so, encountered one of the lesser deities, he MIGHT win, but if both parties were prepared for the battle, and came into it expecting such a duel, with the innate abilities, spell like abilities, etc of even a lesser god, I don't think he'd survive it. A properly prepared god(dess) would have spells prepped to nullify his magic casting abilities, and even if those spells only lasted for a few moments, yes he has 72HD, but that's still a Max of 288Hp + con modifier, and face it, you don't get 72 perfect rolls... playability wise, he's going to have around 300Hp, considerable yes, but if his magic is taken away from him, even for a few rounds, that number can get eaten up rather quickly... so I wouldn't base a decision of "who would win" on someones Hit Dice, in the long run, it's more a question of, who can magically cripple who the quickest, while following up with some high level spells to chew through the opponents life. It's going to come down to, yes he can hit a lesser deity with some potent spells, and no doubt really hurt them, but if that deity manages to hit him with an anti magic shell, or similar, and he's done, because once his spells are taken away, he's going to get hammered apart, he's got nothing left to protect/defend/attack with. So, in a magical duel, I'd say he'd lose, epically. If he ambushed a lesser god... he MIGHT win. But it would take a great deal of planning and preparation on his part.
As for the main point of what you were saying however, Darkhope, I agree with you that he is more than likely one of the most powerful, and is definitely among the oldest. Powerwise, I think Karsus would be a fair competition for him, and Larloch I wouldn't dismiss as being more than challenging as an opponent. Keep in mind, Larloch's only real known goals for the past age, have been to collect and devise new magic's, and collect (possibly create) major magical items and artifacts. And his retinue of liches, if factored in, and I personally would factor them in, or at least a percentage of them, being as there is always at least some of them close to him, would make him dangerous. It's not so bad to put an antimagic field around 1 mage, but, if you have even a dozen facing you, if they're spaced out well, it gets considerably more tricky... But even without his legion of liches, he has a vast collection of artifacts and items of considerable magical power. Those alone would give him an edge over most opponents, and you can't take those away from him, b/c what mage is going to go to a major fight, or any fight even, without preparring themselves with the right gear. A fighter doesn't leave his sword at home.... 
Kar |
Knowledge is power... power corrupts... knowledge corrupts? hmm...
Death is only frightening to those who haven't died yet... |
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Darkhope
Acolyte
9 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2005 : 08:13:59
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quote:
properly prepared god(dess) would have spells prepped to nullify his magic casting abilities, and even if those spells only lasted for a few moments, yes he has 72HD, but that's still a Max of 288Hp + con modifier, and face it, you don't get 72 perfect rolls... playability wise, he's going to have around 300Hp, considerable yes, but if his magic is taken away from him, even for a few rounds, that number can get eaten up rather quickly...
He has 500 HP. Ioulaum is undead Ilithilich, D12 hit points :) Theres a write of him here:
Ioulaum the Elder Brain Lich: Male Netherese Human Elder Brain Lich Wiz31/Acm5/Netherese Arcanist 5; CR 68; Large Undead (Augmented Humanoid, Psionic); HD 67d12 plus 67; hp 508; Init +5; Spd 10 ft., fly 30 ft. (good), swim 30 ft.; AC 30 (touch 10, flat-footed 29); Base Atk +34; Grp +39; Atk +35 melee (1d8+5, touch) or +35 melee (1d6+1 plus extract, tendril); Full Atk +35/+30 melee (1d8+5, touch) or +35 melee (1d6+1 plus extract, 4 tendrils); Face/Reach 10 ft./10 ft.; SA Damaging touch, extract, fear aura, improved grab, mind blast, paralyzing touch, psi-like abilities, psionics, spells; SQ +4 turn resistance, Archmage high arcana, backlash resistance, blindsight 240 ft., bud brain golem, DR 15/adamantine, bludgeoning and magic, epic spell artisan, field specialization, greater spell focus (epic), immunity to cold, electricity, polymorph, and mind-affecting effects, power resistance 34, regeneration 10, resistance to fire 10, spell focus (epic), telepathic awareness, undead traits; AL LN; SV Fort +29, Ref +30, Will +44; Str 13, Dex 13, Con -, Int 44, Wis 28, Cha 26
Skills and Feats: Appraise +27 (+31 with alchemical items), Autohypnosis +27, Bluff +28, Concentration +78 (+82 when casting or manifesting defensively), Craft (alchemy) +58, Decipher Script +58, Diplomacy +44, Disguise +27 (+29 acting), Hide +9, Intimidate +36, Knowledge (arcana) +87, Knowledge (architecture and engineering) +52, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +52, Knowledge (geography) +52, Knowledge (history-Netheril) +62, Knowledge (local-the North) +62, Knowledge (nature) +52, Knowledge (nobility and royalty) +52, Knowledge (psionics) +54, Knowledge (religion) +52, Knowledge (the planes) +62, Listen +39, Move Silently +9, Profession (scribe) +29, Psicraft +34, Ride (dragon) +6, Search +35 (+39 with hidden or secret doors), Sense Motive +43, Speak Language (loross, common, abyssal, aquan, aragrakh, auran, celestial, draconic, dwarven, elven, ignan, illuskan, infernal, netherese, roushoum, seldriun, terran, thorass, undercommon), Spellcraft +128, Spot +39, Survival +19 (+23 underground, avoid getting lost, and aboveground; +25 on other planes); Alertness, Combat Casting, Combat Manifestation, Craft Artifact, Craft Construct, Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Craft Rod, Craft Staff, Craft Wand, Craft Wondrous Item, Epic Spellcasting, Empower Spell, Eschew Materials, Extend Spell, Forge Ring, Heighten Spell, Improved Combat Casting, Improved Heighten Spell, Improved Iniative, Improved Metamagic, Improved Spell Capacity x 4, Improved Toughness, Leadership, Multispell, Nonverbal Spell, Overchannel, Practiced Spellcaster (wizard), Quicken Spell, Scribe Scroll{B}, Silent Spell, Skill Focus (Spellcraft), Spell Focus (divination), Spell Focus (evocation), Spell Penetration, Still Spell
Special Qualities: Damaging touch (DC 51), paralyzing touch (DC 51), fear aura (DC 51), undead traits, lich immunities (immunity to cold, electricity, polymorph [though he can use polymorph effects on himself], and mind-affecting attacks). Blindsight 240 ft., bud brain golem, extract, mind blast (DC 51), power resistance 34, regeneration 10, resistance to fire 10, telepathic awareness. Archmage high arcana: arcane fire (600 ft., 5d6 plus 1d6 per spell level sacrificed), mastery of counterspelling, mastery of elements, mastery of shaping, spell power +1. Field specialization, spell focus (epic), backlash resistance, epic spell artisan, greater spell focus (epic).
Psi-like abilities (as 20th level manifester): at will – astral projection, psionic charm (all targets, 1 day/level, DC 28*), psionic dominate (four targets, DC 28*), psionic plane shift, psionic suggestion (eight targets, DC 20*), read thoughts (DC 20).
* Includes augmentation for Ioulaum’s manifester level.
Spell-like abilities (as 45th level caster): at will – avoid planar effects (self only, always constant, if dispelled can be reactivated as a free action); 1/day – plane shift.
Psionic Powers Known (power points 513; save DC 27 + power level; manifester level 20th): 1st–detect psionics, inertial armor, mind thrust, mindlink, sense link; 2nd–brain lock, cloud mind, detect hostile intent, ego whip, id insinuation; 3rd–body adjustment, dispel psionics, false sensory input, mental barrier; 4th–aura sight, energy adaptation, intellect fortress, psionic modify memory; 5th–incarnate, mind probe, psionic major creation, psychic crush; 6th–aura alteration, psionic contingency, psionic disintegrate, temporal acceleration; 7th–crisis of life, energy wave, psionic phase door, ultrablast; 8th-bend reality, matter manipulation, psionic mind blank, psionic greater teleport; 9th-affinity field, psychic chirurgery, true mind switch, timeless body.
Wizard Spells Prepared (4/9/8/8/8/7/6/6/6/6/4/4/4/4; base DC = 28 + spell level, DC 29 + spell level with divination and evocation spells; caster level 45th).
Epic Spells Per Day: 7
Possessions: Unknown
Height: Unknown, Weight: Unknown, Hair: None, Eyes: None.
Note: Ioulaum has used wishes to grant himself the maximum inherent scores in Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma. As an ancient Netherese he has the benefits of being venerable age,
Sources: Netheril: Empire of Magic (2E), PHB 3.5, DMG 3.5, MM 3.5, Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting (3E), Player’s Guide to Faerun (3.5E), Lost Empires of Faerun (3.5E), Underdark (3.5E), Epic Level Handbook (3E), Expanded Psionics Handbook (3.5E), Deities and Demigods (3E), Planar Handbook (3.5E), and Libris Mortis (3.5E).
In my opinion it would be a fair match for him vs a lesser god, specifically the ones I made. If he successfully ambushed I believe he would win. But any gods he could take out he wouldn't match or want their portfolio's. And godhood is very restricting if you think about it. He is possibly the only being living that has read all chapters of the Nether Scrolls. He knows more about magic than Azuth and Mystra :P. Ya'll seriously are doubting this guys power. He could easily obtain godhood if he wanted.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2005 : 16:11:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Darkhope
[quote] In my opinion it would be a fair match for him vs a lesser god, specifically the ones I made. If he successfully ambushed I believe he would win. But any gods he could take out he wouldn't match or want their portfolio's. And godhood is very restricting if you think about it. He is possibly the only being living that has read all chapters of the Nether Scrolls. He knows more about magic than Azuth and Mystra :P. Ya'll seriously are doubting this guys power. He could easily obtain godhood if he wanted.
How can he know more about magic than the deities in charge of it? Sorry, but that claim strikes me as absolutely preposterous...
Second, he could probably take out an avatar of a lesser god -- that much I'll grant. But what's he going to do if the deity decides to fight with multiple avatars? And the avatars are but a pale reflection of the deity, anyway. Avatars are to the deities like RC cars are to real automobiles -- the same thing, only much smaller and less powerful.
Last point: in the Realms, mortals cannot kill gods without deific assistance. He could wipe out avatars all day long (which would do nothing but cause the deity some inconvenience), but he can't do anything serious without the help of another deity.
Oh, and where did those stats come from? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Darkhope
Acolyte
9 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2005 : 17:20:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
How can he know more about magic than the deities in charge of it? Sorry, but that claim strikes me as absolutely preposterous...
Cause he's 5times older than both of them? Remember Midnight and Azuth are new gods, mortals that rose to divinity by power. Ioulaum's bonus to spellcraft is higher than the gods writeup.
quote:
Second, he could probably take out an avatar of a lesser god -- that much I'll grant. But what's he going to do if the deity decides to fight with multiple avatars? And the avatars are but a pale reflection of the deity, anyway. Avatars are to the deities like RC cars are to real automobiles -- the same thing, only much smaller and less powerful.
Your obviously not familiar with Divine ranks and Avatars. An Avatar has 1/2 the divine rank of the true form, therefor half of its divine powers. And when you are such a low divine rank already ( the deity's I named are all lesser deity's divine rank 6-8) your avatar isn't really that much different from the real thing. I can't believe this is being argued, just look at the write-ups in the FR Faiths and Pantheons. Uthgar and Shaundakul ESPECIALLY would be smoking craters once Ioulaum got done with them. There would be no contest.
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Last point: in the Realms, mortals cannot kill gods without deific assistance. He could wipe out avatars all day long (which would do nothing but cause the deity some inconvenience), but he can't do anything serious without the help of another deity.
Oh, and where did those stats come from?
This is straight from the FR Faiths and Pantheons book:
Immortality: All deities are naturally immortal and cannot die from natural causes. Deities do not age, and they do not need to eat, sleep, or breathe. The only way for a deity to die is throught special curcumstances. Usually by being slain in magical or physical combat.
Deity's are NOT all powerful indestructable beings. They CAN be killed, its been proven in the realms before, MULTIPLE times. And by LESS powerful people than one such as Ioulaum.
And the write game from Green-Giant, he's a master at building NPC's.
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=142994
He's on 1st page, 3/4 of the way down. |
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