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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Aug 2024 : 22:08:10
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As I already discussed, I agree with your idea that using ceremorphosis works best as a "shortcut" to making illithids (and I further it by stating that letting one grow "naturally" should be more likely to produce an "enhanced" version of illithid such as a ulitharid). If you don't mind though, it might be interesting to quickly discuss an idea surrounding neothelids.
I personally like the idea that neothelids are tadpoles that are found to be lacking mental capacity.... I guess similar to a human born with something like down syndrome... and maybe as a result of lacking mental faculties, their physical abilities are stronger. Thus, because they lack the mental capacity, they never get implanted, and they also don't form into illithids. The "official story" for them is that they would normally be eaten by the elder brain, so they have to come about as a result of the elder brain being gone, and then they have to consume a living brain to "awaken" their psionic abilities.
Where I think I'd change the neothelid story would be that the elder brain doesn't consume these "bestial" tadpoles, but rather keeps them kind of like guard dogs that it lets feed from portions of brains that are "less tasty" like the cerebellum that deals more with muscle control. These should lack the psionic abilities of the "classic" neothelid and be simple brutes. But then periodically an "awakened" neothelid comes about when one of these overgrown larvae eats the brain of a fallen illithid, and this awakens their psionic abilities and they turn against the elder brain. These awakened neothelids hate illithid society because they see that they were treated differently and are willing to attack an elder brain, which makes all illithids despise them, and the more illithid brains that they consume further enhances their abilities, if only temporarily.
With this scenario, the "guardian of the elder brain" versions could still have the acid breath weapon, tentacle attacks, and be able to swallow individuals.... they just would lack all the psionic abilities. They might also age/die much more quickly, but if they get awakened maybe they can live longer. They might also be colored differently, and this might be how illithids can tell when a neothelid "goes rogue". It would make them much more feasible for use as well since colonies might be much more willing to allow them to survive to adulthood.
As a further aside, one thing I've heard people say about children with neurological disorders is how loving they are towards the people that care for them. It occurs to me that illithids might look at the "guardian neothelids" who protect the elder brain in a similar way... they may see them as simple but "good natured" ... and they might get really pissy with people that hurt them (kind of like how someone might view a bully picking on their sibling that has a neurological disorder and might punch the bully in the face). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 05 Aug 2024 23:19:55 |
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe
USA
572 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2024 : 23:42:55
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Maanzecorian the Philosoflayer: https://bit.ly/4dsptuH
Maanzecorian always fascinated me, as a knowledge- and philosphy-loving deity of a very evil race. He always felt like the perfect patron of Estriss, the illithid in the Cloakmaster Spelljammer novel series. I was disappointed when he was unceremoniously slain in the Dead Gods adventure, so I took this opportunity to create the potential of a revival (or, for those who wish it, another deity to masquerade as him).
Jeff |
My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not." |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe
USA
572 Posts |
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Iahn Qoyllor
Seeker
United Kingdom
50 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2024 : 12:33:05
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| As always Jeff, absolutely superb work! Really enjoyed your write up. |
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe
USA
572 Posts |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2024 : 17:59:13
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quote:
Originally posted by AuldDragon
Maanzecorian the Philosoflayer: https://bit.ly/4dsptuH
Maanzecorian always fascinated me, as a knowledge- and philosphy-loving deity of a very evil race. He always felt like the perfect patron of Estriss, the illithid in the Cloakmaster Spelljammer novel series. I was disappointed when he was unceremoniously slain in the Dead Gods adventure, so I took this opportunity to create the potential of a revival (or, for those who wish it, another deity to masquerade as him).
Jeff
Jeff, just curious, the part where you talk about HOW he ascended (i.e. finding Ilsensine, asking him a question, etc..)... is that canon anywhere? If not, I just really want to tell you... I like that idea. Good work.
Oh, and just to put some spin on an idea... since he was supposedly "killed" by Tenebrous with some magic word (forget the term used), and since both Tenebrous and Orcus both exist now (Orcus is free and Tenebrous is a vestige)... what if there's something similar going on with Maanzecorian. By that I mean, what if his church now also includes binders that bind an "aspect" of Maanzecorian that's still entrapped in the place where Vestiges go. Maybe the returned Maanzecorian is missing SOME of his knowledge and its held by his own vestige. Maybe there are "clerics of Maanzecorian/binders" who multiclass, and they report that when they bind they can "hear" the whispers of the "two halves of Maanzecorian trying to talk to one another through them". Maybe the vestige of Maanzecorian refuses to bind with anyone who binds with Tenebrous. When someone binds the vestige, maybe they as well hear the whisperings of it in their brain talking to any other bound vestiges... but the binder themselves can't make out what's being said. Maybe you can even negotiate between the vestiges to allow Maanzecorian to give more abilities in return for another vestige not supplying as much (just a mechanics idea here... either extra powers or the powers be enhanced that Maanzecorian does give). I know it would be a bit confusing as hell, but its got the basis of a good story I think.
Going with this idea, whenever a binder "binds" the VESTIGE of Maanzecorian (note, should come up with another name.... maybe IT is called the Philosoflayer), it should appear within the circle, rise up appearing as a great illithid, surround the head of the binder with its own tentacles... and then disappear, like its entered their brain.
granted none of that fits in the 2e ruleset, but just figured I'd post the idea. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 02 Oct 2024 18:38:47 |
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe
USA
572 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2024 : 18:31:10
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Jeff, just curious, the part where you talk about HOW he ascended (i.e. finding Ilsensine, asking him a question, etc..)... is that canon anywhere? If not, I just really want to tell you... I like that idea. Good work.
Thanks! It was basically inspired by the Diirinka and Diinkarazan origin, and it seemed to fit as a potential origin for a philosophical/exploration god. :D
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Oh, and just to put some spin on an idea... since he was supposedly "killed" by Tenebrous with some magic word (forget the term used), and since both Tenebrous and Orcus both exist now (Orcus is free and Tenebrous is a vestige)... what if there's something similar going on with Maanzecorian. By that I mean, what if his church now also includes binders that bind an "aspect" of Maanzecorian that's still entrapped in the place where Vestiges go. Maybe the returned Maanzecorian is missing SOME of his knowledge and its held by his own vestige. Maybe there are "cleric/binders" who multiclass. Finally, maybe the vestige of Maanzecorian refuses to bind with anyone who binds with Tenebrous. I know it would be a bit confusing as hell, but its got the basis of a good story I think.
Going with this idea, whenever a binder "binds" the VESTIGE of Maanzecorian (note, should come up with another name.... maybe IT is called the Philosoflayer), it should appear within the circle, rise up appearing as a great illithid, surround the head of the binder with its own tentacles... and then disappear, like its entered their brain.
I don't really know much about vestiges and the like, it's not something that was in 2e so I haven't given it any real consideration. I'd much rather Maanzecorian be alive as he was than there be any other sort of situation. I wanted to leave it open for individual DMs to do what they wanted (including having another deity masquerade as him), but for my campaign, it's "Somehow, Maanzecorian returned." ;)
I see Tenebrous as just Orcus's name while his name was erased, and he is now an actual undead god, which basically doesn't mean anything within the rules.
Jeff |
My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not." |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2024 : 18:57:58
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quote:
Originally posted by AuldDragon
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Jeff, just curious, the part where you talk about HOW he ascended (i.e. finding Ilsensine, asking him a question, etc..)... is that canon anywhere? If not, I just really want to tell you... I like that idea. Good work.
Thanks! It was basically inspired by the Diirinka and Diinkarazan origin, and it seemed to fit as a potential origin for a philosophical/exploration god. :D
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Oh, and just to put some spin on an idea... since he was supposedly "killed" by Tenebrous with some magic word (forget the term used), and since both Tenebrous and Orcus both exist now (Orcus is free and Tenebrous is a vestige)... what if there's something similar going on with Maanzecorian. By that I mean, what if his church now also includes binders that bind an "aspect" of Maanzecorian that's still entrapped in the place where Vestiges go. Maybe the returned Maanzecorian is missing SOME of his knowledge and its held by his own vestige. Maybe there are "cleric/binders" who multiclass. Finally, maybe the vestige of Maanzecorian refuses to bind with anyone who binds with Tenebrous. I know it would be a bit confusing as hell, but its got the basis of a good story I think.
Going with this idea, whenever a binder "binds" the VESTIGE of Maanzecorian (note, should come up with another name.... maybe IT is called the Philosoflayer), it should appear within the circle, rise up appearing as a great illithid, surround the head of the binder with its own tentacles... and then disappear, like its entered their brain.
I don't really know much about vestiges and the like, it's not something that was in 2e so I haven't given it any real consideration. I'd much rather Maanzecorian be alive as he was than there be any other sort of situation. I wanted to leave it open for individual DMs to do what they wanted (including having another deity masquerade as him), but for my campaign, it's "Somehow, Maanzecorian returned." ;)
I see Tenebrous as just Orcus's name while his name was erased, and he is now an actual undead god, which basically doesn't mean anything within the rules.
Jeff
So, I get that you may want to keep it simple, and that's cool. That being said, presenting an idea that can build on what you are talking about for those that may use newer rulesets. For that matter, "binders" in 5e don't so much exist, but warlocks are very similar to binders... and having Maanzecorian as a "vestige" that works like a warlock patron would also work. I actually have written up a version of warlock that functions somewhat like a binder in the early days of 5e as well.
Thinking more on this idea though from a story standpoint.. the "returned" version of Maanzecorian as a god may have ZERO knowledge of anything that happened "while he was dead". In essence, he's like a rebooted clone of Maanzecorian before he died. The vestige meanwhile may only have knowledge that it gleaned "from the place where vestiges go", and so IT knows how it managed to get itself "freed".... even if it had to leave a portion of its own psyche behind entrapped.
I'm going to think more on this, as it could be a really interesting play on a character, as he may see his purpose as being "the bridge between the two aspects of one being". |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Iahn Qoyllor
Seeker
United Kingdom
50 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2024 : 08:42:11
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| Hi Jeff - what's next once you complete this mammoth project considering you're almost done? Any chance you can be tempted to do some of the ancient human pantheons - Sumerian, Babylonian, Aztec etc please? |
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe
USA
572 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2024 : 18:15:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Iahn Qoyllor
Hi Jeff - what's next once you complete this mammoth project considering you're almost done? Any chance you can be tempted to do some of the ancient human pantheons - Sumerian, Babylonian, Aztec etc please?
I'm not sure at this point. I do want to address the human pantheons, but I also want to create some pantheons for races that sorely lack them (much like what I did with the Grav). Hurwaeti, Loxo, Grommams, Dracons, etc., as well as races that definitely have deities but no real details, such as Grippli, Grung, and Kercpa. We'll see! :D
Jeff |
My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not." |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2024 : 21:34:37
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quote:
Originally posted by AuldDragon
quote:
Originally posted by Iahn Qoyllor
Hi Jeff - what's next once you complete this mammoth project considering you're almost done? Any chance you can be tempted to do some of the ancient human pantheons - Sumerian, Babylonian, Aztec etc please?
I'm not sure at this point. I do want to address the human pantheons, but I also want to create some pantheons for races that sorely lack them (much like what I did with the Grav). Hurwaeti, Loxo, Grommams, Dracons, etc., as well as races that definitely have deities but no real details, such as Grippli, Grung, and Kercpa. We'll see! :D
Jeff
You had me at Kercpa. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe
USA
572 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2024 : 02:47:41
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I, too, am a fan of kercpa. Something about those little guys really appeals to me.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2024 : 01:12:33
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quote:
Originally posted by AuldDragon
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
You had me at Kercpa.
:D
By the way, just if you want some input... if you do Kercpa gods, recommend worshipping not just a tree goddess, but a hero god who is a kercpa.
There's also an "evil" race of squirrel folk in 3.5e, and it would be interesting to have them be a corruption of kercpa. They were called the skiurid, and they were associated with shadow and cold. Could easily see it that the Queen of Air and Darkness may have corrupted them, but it could also be that Nidhogg the "serpent" in Niflheim (the land of the dead) may also have been involved. There were in Monster manual 4 in 3e era.
From the original article, for a kercpa god .... and of course, the norse pantheon has "Ratatosk" the squirrel who transports messages between nidhogg gnawing on the roots of yggdrasil and the eagle at its top. Picturing that Ratatosk and Rititisk are likely similar beings, though it could be something like Rititisk is a child of Ratatosk.
Faced with ethical dilemma, kercpas seek precedent in the fables of Rititisk the Clever — the mythical patriarch of the race — and try to emulate his example. Besides being entertaining stories of adventure in their own right — tales of Rititisk thwarting monstrous evil spiders, outwitting oafish giants (humans), questing to the ends of the earth for enchanted ever-striking arrows and the like — the fables contain lessons to guide the kercpas through all as of life. They are essential to every young kercpa’s education.
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe
USA
572 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2024 : 17:56:51
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Melira Taralen the Songstress: https://bit.ly/48uPh8I
The last of the elven deities published in Dragon #155 and updated in Dragon #236 is Melira Taralen, goddess of musical creation and musicians. Dragon #236 also described Melira as patron to elven minstrels (the kit from PHBR07 Complete Bard’s Handbook) and half-elven bards, which gave me an opportunity to create a sect of her belief that holds her as a true half-elven deity.
Jeff |
My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not." |
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe
USA
572 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2024 : 18:00:58
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
By the way, just if you want some input... if you do Kercpa gods, recommend worshipping not just a tree goddess, but a hero god who is a kercpa.
Yeah, I definitely had considered making Rititisk into a demigod. Give them a little more flexibility. I'd also make their worship part of the Outer Circle of the Seelie Court, so that the Seelie Court powers would be there to fill out their full religious tapesty.
I may have to look into that 3e evil squirrelfolk race; having them be a corruption by the Queen of Air and Darkness could be interesting. This is the first I've heard of them, so I dunno how well this initial idea would work, though.
Jeff |
My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not." |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2024 : 23:46:05
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quote:
Originally posted by AuldDragon
Melira Taralen the Songstress: https://bit.ly/48uPh8I
The last of the elven deities published in Dragon #155 and updated in Dragon #236 is Melira Taralen, goddess of musical creation and musicians. Dragon #236 also described Melira as patron to elven minstrels (the kit from PHBR07 Complete Bard’s Handbook) and half-elven bards, which gave me an opportunity to create a sect of her belief that holds her as a true half-elven deity.
Jeff
I like this A LOT!
In my never-to-complete quest for nurturing Realmslore about music… I’ve tinkered with several unique ways to give Melira more play in the setting. It’s been fun working with what has been published for her in the past and inventing new stuff that gives her a more Realms-centric focus. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2024 : 00:53:41
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quote:
Originally posted by AuldDragon
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
By the way, just if you want some input... if you do Kercpa gods, recommend worshipping not just a tree goddess, but a hero god who is a kercpa.
Yeah, I definitely had considered making Rititisk into a demigod. Give them a little more flexibility. I'd also make their worship part of the Outer Circle of the Seelie Court, so that the Seelie Court powers would be there to fill out their full religious tapesty.
I may have to look into that 3e evil squirrelfolk race; having them be a corruption by the Queen of Air and Darkness could be interesting. This is the first I've heard of them, so I dunno how well this initial idea would work, though.
Jeff
Yep, you're already thinking along lines that I was with linking their gods to the seelie court. That being said, I'd also link them to the norse pantheon.
You know, one thing that occurs to me, regarding the tree goddess, what if she were RUMORED to be an almagam goddess... by that I mean a tripartite goddess who is created by other goddesses combining power. You could take Seelie goddess Verenestra-the goddess of dryads, Idun of the Norse Pantheon, and maybe Sheela Peryroyl of the halfling pantheon. Maybe it was some one time thing, and so now there's some aspect of themselves that still exists of all 3 combined, and it was this aspect that was responsible for awakening the squirrels that became the first kercpa. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe
USA
572 Posts |
Posted - 03 Nov 2024 : 18:05:53
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I like this A LOT!
In my never-to-complete quest for nurturing Realmslore about music… I’ve tinkered with several unique ways to give Melira more play in the setting. It’s been fun working with what has been published for her in the past and inventing new stuff that gives her a more Realms-centric focus.
Thank you! She was a lot of fun to write up and I really like where I ended up with her as being seen by some half-elves as a half-elven deity. :)
Jeff |
My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not." |
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe
USA
572 Posts |
Posted - 03 Nov 2024 : 18:20:31
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Yep, you're already thinking along lines that I was with linking their gods to the seelie court. That being said, I'd also link them to the norse pantheon.
You know, one thing that occurs to me, regarding the tree goddess, what if she were RUMORED to be an almagam goddess... by that I mean a tripartite goddess who is created by other goddesses combining power. You could take Seelie goddess Verenestra-the goddess of dryads, Idun of the Norse Pantheon, and maybe Sheela Peryroyl of the halfling pantheon. Maybe it was some one time thing, and so now there's some aspect of themselves that still exists of all 3 combined, and it was this aspect that was responsible for awakening the squirrels that became the first kercpa.
My issue with that basically boils down to my desire to keep the various racial gods for their own races. I'd want Kercpa to have their own deities, rather than be an "also-worshipped-by" kinda thing. Maybe if another deity had a strong squirrel connection, I could see it, I guess. But I would want the squirrel tree-goddess to represent home and food and none of those goddesses represent that.
Jeff |
My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not." |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 04 Nov 2024 : 18:15:56
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quote:
Originally posted by AuldDragon
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Yep, you're already thinking along lines that I was with linking their gods to the seelie court. That being said, I'd also link them to the norse pantheon.
You know, one thing that occurs to me, regarding the tree goddess, what if she were RUMORED to be an almagam goddess... by that I mean a tripartite goddess who is created by other goddesses combining power. You could take Seelie goddess Verenestra-the goddess of dryads, Idun of the Norse Pantheon, and maybe Sheela Peryroyl of the halfling pantheon. Maybe it was some one time thing, and so now there's some aspect of themselves that still exists of all 3 combined, and it was this aspect that was responsible for awakening the squirrels that became the first kercpa.
My issue with that basically boils down to my desire to keep the various racial gods for their own races. I'd want Kercpa to have their own deities, rather than be an "also-worshipped-by" kinda thing. Maybe if another deity had a strong squirrel connection, I could see it, I guess. But I would want the squirrel tree-goddess to represent home and food and none of those goddesses represent that.
Jeff
good point. I was looking for making "allies", but that can be done other ways. It might make better stories if the squirrel god has periodically aided "nature goddesses" of these pantheons, and thus the people's that worship them have "good relations" with kercpa. For instance, someone was trying to steal apples from Idun grove of golden apples and Rititisk showed up to run them off. Maybe Sheela Peryroyl found herself in trouble (being chased by Daragor the werewolf god) and Rititisk enticed him to chase him by hurling abuse in his direction so that she could escape. Maybe Rititisk was responsible for rescuing the seeds of Verenestra and planting them across the planes, allowing the daughters of the dryad goddess to escape some evil god that sought to turn them into his wives.
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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[2e] Monster Mythology Update Project
