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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
 Posted - 13 Apr 2023 : 09:15:17
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I very highly doubt that the Iron Mountains referred to in the Netheril novel trilogy are in Ulgarth.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2023 : 09:22:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison
That's good. I'll go with my original assumption then that the yakmen were actually minotaurs but the mistranslation from rengarth to dwarvish comes out as cowman.
Although the 2nd to last double diamond novel did mention a portal between the catacombs beneath doegan and netheril, I also think that is a mistake (since Belgin said he was no expert before making the assertion) and it would more likely be imaskar as the fleeing imaskari mages almost certainly went to surrounding lands like ulgarth.
In character lore references from the Double Diamond series don't count for diddly.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2428 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2023 : 10:50:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison
That's good. I'll go with my original assumption then that the yakmen were actually minotaurs but the mistranslation from rengarth to dwarvish comes out as cowman.
Consider:
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison
Mortal Consequences (c.-700 DR) By Clayton Emery
shaggy beasts like upright cattle. Horns jutted from the sides of their heads, and from some dangled tiny bells on leather thongs that jingled. These cow-beings possessed the bleached skulls along the trail, then. Their long hands bore blunt, black nails, and all carried curved wooden staves. Surprised by her rush, a yak-man shrank back to aim the end of his staff. Knucklebones gave him no chance. Doubling her fist of brass knuckledusters, she slammed the yak-man hard on the nose. [2]
Minotaurs are just bull-headed humanoids, and IIRC there were no references to spellcasters or using items usually restricted to spellcaster.
The yak-men indeed look like shaggy upright bovines with hands, are very fond of staves (possibly for this reason), all can use magic items (arcane or divine) and have a lot of actual spellcasters (effectively as priest/elemental mage).
As to the area -
Ulgarth is close enough by the sea, and kind of isolated;
Netheril was already at a bad time and is linked via the portal, as we know Bedine came from Zakhara (and then there are asabis), so the yikaria have a feasible way to reach either area.
A third place would have to introduce one more connection... that otherwise was never used... and the yikaria incursion there should not create known wider disturbances. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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Karthak
Seeker
63 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2023 : 02:34:18
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Going off the information in Storm King's Thunder, the yakfolk established a village near Citadel Adbar thousands of years after the fall of Ostoria and they had to repel multiple attempts by dwarven clans to raid the mines beneath their village over centuries before the dwarves gave up, so it sounds like they've been there for at most a millenia as of 1485-1493, although likely a lot less than that given their small population size and only having one village in the region. Also given their proximity to Hartsvale and aren't mentioned as being reluctant to work with the Fire Giants that took up residence in the mines below their village, it seems unlikely that they were present prior to the formation of Hartsvale as it's unlikely that the evicted giants would've been particularly kind to any creatures living nearby as they sought new homes.
It doesn't provide any information on how the Yakfolk ended up in that area to begin with, at least as far as I could see. |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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Karthak
Seeker
63 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2023 : 13:19:47
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Ostoria fell in the -2400s, so millenia being read as just 2000 years would still put the Yakfolk as arriving prior to Netheril's fall,
Couldn't find any clear cut explanations for the minotaurs being in the labyrinth in OotA, just that they'd been there for a while and worshipped Baphomet, which ties into 5e lore of cults to Baphomet being the cause of Minotaurs existing in the first place.
Which rules out Netherese meddling with creating hybrids as being responsible for Minotaurs, although thereotically leaving the door open for Yakfolk but seems extremely unlikely that they'd be created in enough numbers to have been able to have managed to form multiple groups of travellers that managed to reproduce enough to avoid extinction for 1800 years.
Given the mention in the monster entry for Yakfolk talking about enclaves being used to raise Yakfolk children as their parents have no interest and that most races view them as evil boogy-men, the dwarves of Adbar merely being suspicious of the Yakfolk in that small village after the Yakfolk endured centuries worth of dwarven attempts to get into the abandoned giant mines at some point, and the very small population and village size after multiple centuries of existing in that area, it seems pretty clear cut that it's merely an enclave set up by the Yakfolk who worship the forgotten god and not the remnant of an ancient splinter group of travellers that headed north and somehow avoided attention from all the other sentient creatures that would've been present or travelling in the area since -500 DR until 1485 DR.
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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Karthak
Seeker
63 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2023 : 00:50:48
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Yeah, the date didn't seem right to me, as I wasn't aware any mentions of interactions between the Netherese and Giant empires, which would be a major thing to omit from books.
Storm Kings Thunder could go either way with the ties between Yakfolk and Giants, yes they've been camped out above the entrance to a giant's mine for centuries but it's only recently that the Fire Giant duke found the place and made an arrangement with the Yakfolk.
I'm quite interested in the notion that the giants had a vestigal empire in the north at the same time as the Netherese so that'll require some investigation. I'm also interested in this Forgotten God of Zakhara as it sounds quite different to Tharizdun despite also being a god that lords over all 4 major Elements, do you know of any sources for information other than SKT? |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2428 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2023 : 16:29:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison
First is Ed on twitter wrote about yakmen in a mount something near citadel adbar, so there is a presence in the north that may or may not be historical.
This shows going North for metals is something they do, with encouragement of the Faceless God. And that they have access to this particular place, of course.
For that matter, complete lack of aggression from that outpost may be a result of previous experience on just how expensive fighting even a very modest dwarf hold in mountains can get. 
quote:
The big problem is time. The yakmen were created by the forgotten god who originated in the ruined kingdoms and was ousted and then established the riparian empire. The timeframe for the ruined kingdoms is unlikely to be long before dalereckoning and so the yikaria did not exist during Netherils time.
Why? Was there a specific reason for particular timing?
To think of it, the yikaria were not at their full capabilities yet, obviously that war should have been going on before Faceless God collared the dao. Otherwise the dwarves of Iron Mountains would get extinct quickly and thoroughly, much like the drow under Zakhara presumably did. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
Edited by - TBeholder on 16 Apr 2023 21:16:27 |
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Razz
Senior Scribe
USA
749 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2023 : 03:09:06
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These should be compiled and have its own page on the home page of Candlekeep.
I'm definitely one who would prefer FR Lore-only information from the novels in an easy to reference location. |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2428 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2024 : 15:37:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison
Tantras (1358)
Scardale
3 other assassins in the garrison (one called Varro, uses a scythe, Sejanus uses a bolas). Crimson stained symbol of Bane on their chests.
Hmm. There were also Glora Varro (the Minister of Wild Magic for the Ministry of Art, missing and suspected to defect during the war) and her cousin Lord Marshal Gaius Varro (missing, possibly abducted by Glora) in The City of Ravens Bluff.
Any more people with this name? |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Novel Lore
