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Delnyn
Senior Scribe
USA
958 Posts |
 Posted - 16 Dec 2023 : 13:58:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
quote:
A serial murderer is not interested in saving souls and ceases to be good if the being in question ever was good.
I mean, they're insane but that won't change their alignment.
Gross ignorance and delusion should affect alignments.
Serial murderers who murder to save souls are ignorant and deluded as well as probably insane. The point remains they are not good. |
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Delnyn
Senior Scribe
USA
958 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2023 : 14:09:05
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| Asmodeus only gave Zariel the final nudge. Zariel already lost her faith in anything but violence by the time she invaded the Hells against celestial orders. To misquote Tolkien: "The Blood War made an orc of Zariel." |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1309 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2023 : 15:35:25
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| Bizarre. They are formed of Good and Law. Volition resulting in so radical a defiance of their nature? You may as well ask a plain humanoid to defy its biology by abandoning respiration and the consumption of food. |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2023 : 02:57:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Azar
Bizarre. They are formed of Good and Law. Volition resulting in so radical a defiance of their nature? You may as well ask a plain humanoid to defy its biology by abandoning respiration and the consumption of food.
I mean they are literally based on beings most famous for being perfect beings of good who fell to evil.
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My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2023 : 05:37:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
quote:
Originally posted by Azar
Bizarre. They are formed of Good and Law. Volition resulting in so radical a defiance of their nature? You may as well ask a plain humanoid to defy its biology by abandoning respiration and the consumption of food.
I mean they are literally based on beings most famous for being perfect beings of good who fell to evil.
I get the argument ... these beings are exercising volition which violates their essential "nature" ("supernature"?) ... so why do they even continue to exist?
I think the answer is that mortals die. If we consciously choose suffocation and starvation (and have enough willpower or conditions of deprivation to enforce that choice) then we die. But immortals do not die. They may be twisted and corrupted into things unrecognizable, repulsive, antithetical to their old selves ... but they do not die. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1309 Posts |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2023 : 18:41:24
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But yes, I like PLANESCAPE as the "punk" interpretation of Dungeons and Dragons and bluntly, I am totally disappointed with the 5E one.
It seems to have lost all of its flavor. |
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1309 Posts |
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Delnyn
Senior Scribe
USA
958 Posts |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2023 : 04:23:07
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... bring in some serious 1998 Guide to Hell flavor. 
Guide to Hell was a fascinating and useful book. And I like the "flavour" almost as much as I like the Planes of Law box set.
But, sadly, it was also an outlier on the lore. The one and only source for the narrative (creation myth?) of the planes. Cosmic stuff. Two of the fundamental cornerstones in the Great Wheel. Yet ... also entirely and conspicuously absent from any other lore, not mentioned in any other planeslore, impossible to prove or disprove without asking Asmodeus himself.
So the "flavour" has a bit of a sour taste which just won't go away unless you wash it down under other flavours. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2023 : 08:33:05
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quote:
But, sadly, it was also an outlier on the lore. The one and only source for the narrative (creation myth?) of the planes. Cosmic stuff. Two of the fundamental cornerstones in the Great Wheel. Yet ... also entirely and conspicuously absent from any other lore, not mentioned in any other planeslore, impossible to prove or disprove without asking Asmodeus himself.
Every Prime Material Plane has its own myth so I'm sure the one in Guide to Hell is no more true or less true than any other. |
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Delnyn
Senior Scribe
USA
958 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2023 : 23:41:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
quote:
But, sadly, it was also an outlier on the lore. The one and only source for the narrative (creation myth?) of the planes. Cosmic stuff. Two of the fundamental cornerstones in the Great Wheel. Yet ... also entirely and conspicuously absent from any other lore, not mentioned in any other planeslore, impossible to prove or disprove without asking Asmodeus himself.
Every Prime Material Plane has its own myth so I'm sure the one in Guide to Hell is no more true or less true than any other.
Asmodeus gets monthly royalty checks from Alfa Romeo so they can keep using their corporate logo. 
EDIT: One could try to ask Jazirian, which would probably be as fruitless as going to Asmodeus.
EDIT#2: For epic adventure, try rappelling down the gorges in Nessus. In particular, choose the Serpent's Coil gorge that has the fortress Malsheem. Does the gorge go down even further?... |
Edited by - Delnyn on 19 Dec 2023 00:08:58 |
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Thirteen Tips for Running Planescape
