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Tanthalas
Senior Scribe
Portugal
508 Posts |
 Posted - 11 Dec 2012 : 18:04:24
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I've just finished reading Shadowbane and Eye of Justice (and the extra side-stories).
Some comments:
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
In Shadowbane I really liked how Kalen got Vindicator back. I was getting worried that he would never wield it again.
I admit that at one point during Eye of Justice my head was spinning trying to figure out who was on which side. While I was reading I couldn't figure out which "chess" pieces represented which character.
I'm with Kalen, I hope Hoar isn't the third part of the three-fold god.
I kind of agree that I think the enmities at the end of the book seemed a bit forced. I can see why there's problems between Ilira and Kalen, but I didn't like how Rhett started to hate what Kalen had become so much that he would kill them in their next confrontation. I'm not sure if this is the right interpretation, but did Rhett kind of worship Kalen like some kind of righteous hero and was then shocked to see his brutality when facing Vhaelis, and its part of this shock that makes him say that he would kill Valen the next time they met? It still seems kind of harsh.
During Eye of Justice (and with the events in Shadowbane) Kalen tells Levia that he's no longer a Paladin. Is this true? Personally, I'm hoping for some kind of redemption where he gets his Paladin powers back (or where he at least starts considering himself a Paladin again).
Just one final question: I know a bit about the history of the Night Masks from looking around the internet, but are there any novels that people should have read to understand a bit more about the backstory of Westgate? While I was reading this scroll it also looked like there was some additional info out there about Ilira (I know that there's the Fox-at-Twilight chapbooks mentioned in Downshadow, but are those chapbook stories available for us (the reader) to read? |
Sir Markham pointed out, drinking another brandy. "A chap who can point at you and say 'die' has the distinct advantage". |
Edited by - Tanthalas on 11 Dec 2012 18:05:02 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2012 : 07:30:54
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Tanthalas, I want you to know I will be getting to your questions when I get a chance!
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2012 : 23:04:25
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Hail and well met, all!
Before I get to Tanthalas's questions, let me clarify something: The Shadowbane saga is not a trilogy. It's an ongoing series that will go on as long as you guys enjoy the books and keep calling for them. If you feel strongly about it and want to support the ongoing series, check out some simple steps you can take to show your support (only one of which actually involves buying copies): http://erikscottdebie.com/shadowbane/support-shadowbane-2/
SPOILERS abound
quote:
Originally posted by Tanthalas
In Shadowbane I really liked how Kalen got Vindicator back. I was getting worried that he would never wield it again.
Glad you liked how that went down. Kalen's faith is a constant struggle for him, and how he relates to Vindicator is a barometer of where he is on his path. He voluntarily relinquishes it at the end of the book, but that doesn't mean he won't wield it again. As Myrin said to him in the previous novel, the sword chose Kalen, and he can no more run from it than he can survive without breathing.
quote:
I admit that at one point during Eye of Justice my head was spinning trying to figure out who was on which side. While I was reading I couldn't figure out which "chess" pieces represented which character.
That was indeed purposeful--I hope it became clear in the end. One way of reading it is that the white sorceress is Myrin, the white knight Kalen, the black reaver Ilira, the white jester Brace, the white priestess Levia, the black sorcerer Hessar, and then the black knight Vengeance and the white bladesinger Rujia. Though you COULD see Kalen as the black knight and Mercy as the white knight. It's a metaphor, really.
(Easter egg: See how the reaver is described just before part three: anyone notice how it resembles a certain D&D mini? That's the mini I use to represent Ilira when I use her as a NPC in my game.)
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I'm with Kalen, I hope Hoar isn't the third part of the three-fold god.
It remains to be seen, I suppose. The Threefold God is a heresy, but there seems to be some truth to it. It's a kind of triad for 4e. The matters of the gods are supposed to be above human comprehension--it's really all about what the individual mortals believe.
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I kind of agree that I think the enmities at the end of the book seemed a bit forced. I can see why there's problems between Ilira and Kalen
Ilira's enmity toward Kalen actually has more to do with her than with him. She has a vast pool of self-loathing and generalized rage, and Kalen makes a convenient target for it.
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but I didn't like how Rhett started to hate what Kalen had become so much that he would kill them in their next confrontation.
Well, in the heat of the moment, we often say things we really don't mean, and I'd hesitate to ascribe hatred to Rhett. It was more like he was totally broken hearted and assuring Kalen that it would be his duty to destroy him if they had to fight. I don't think Rhett hates Kalen, partly because . . .
quote:
I'm not sure if this is the right interpretation, but did Rhett kind of worship Kalen like some kind of righteous hero
Absolutely that's correct. Rhett has a severe case of hero-worship for Kalen, and that scene in the inn when Kalen unleashed his full fury on Vaelis violently ended Rhett's belief in Kalen's perfection.
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and was then shocked to see his brutality when facing Vhaelis, and its part of this shock that makes him say that he would kill Valen the next time they met?
Kinda.
Here's how I explained it to another reader. Picture this: Luke Skywalker (good-hearted young hero) sees Obi-Wan Kenobi (beloved mentor who can do no wrong) facing Darth Vader (his former apprentice turned to evil). Instead of seeing Obi-Wan sacrifice himself to protect his friends, instead he channels the dark side and brutally hacks Darth Vader to pieces, hesitating to kill him only when Luke himself shouts "No!" See how that works?
quote:
During Eye of Justice (and with the events in Shadowbane) Kalen tells Levia that he's no longer a Paladin. Is this true? Personally, I'm hoping for some kind of redemption where he gets his Paladin powers back (or where he at least starts considering himself a Paladin again).
Mechanically, Kalen is an Avenger (a 4e class) which is similar to a paladin but notably less noble and more focused on inflicting punishment. This isn't necessarily the way he will stay, and redemption is a huge thing in my books. Keep reading! 
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Just one final question: I know a bit about the history of the Night Masks from looking around the internet, but are there any novels that people should have read to understand a bit more about the backstory of Westgate?
I suggest Azure Bonds and Masquerades (both by Jeff Grubb) as well as the 2e sourcebook "Cloak and Dagger" and the 3.x books Lords of Darkness and Champions of Ruin.
quote:
While I was reading this scroll it also looked like there was some additional info out there about Ilira (I know that there's the Fox-at-Twilight chapbooks mentioned in Downshadow, but are those chapbook stories available for us (the reader) to read?
They exist in my head at the moment. Maybe someday I'll write them.
The closest we come at the moment is Depths of Madness, which covers the events depicted in the chapbook "Fox in the Anauroch."
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore
India
1591 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2012 : 14:53:25
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| Ahhh thanks for the Spoilers warning. Leaving scroll now. |
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Tanthalas
Senior Scribe
Portugal
508 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2012 : 17:12:44
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| Thanks for the explanations. |
Sir Markham pointed out, drinking another brandy. "A chap who can point at you and say 'die' has the distinct advantage". |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1625 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2013 : 23:28:34
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Spoilers for the both Shadowbane and SBEOJ
Okay awesome novels.
First guess Kire is really Neveren, after all Neveren I believe was one of those who fought the vampire night masks so it makes sense he could have been bitten.
My guess is the duel between Neveren and Ilra was after he became a vampire and Shalis blamed Ilra at one time for getting Neveren invovled in the fight with the nightmasks.
Two I'm totally on Myrin's side on the issue of Kalen. I'm on Ilra's side and hope she gets the Myrin. Kalen can have his mentor.
I hope to see Shalis' powers in action during one of Myrin's stolen memories as a Celebrant of Sharess I'm curious how her powers work in action,does she channel them like a Cleric, a Bard, or a Warlock?
Although I'm surprised you had Shalis as a Mulan as I would think Glorious Sevitors of Bast would be more common in Mulan, where as Celebrants of Sharess along with Dancers of Sharess and Mystic Wonders would be more common on the Sword Coast.
I also like how you use Myrin's memory stealing to explore other characters including those who are already dead.
Another guess Myrin's former doppelganger lover was the originally Night Mask leader, who didn't die after all, but fled instead before the guy with the mask (forget his name) came along to lead the Night Masks before it was taken over by vampire Manshoon.
Just a thought, but the three fold god reminds me of the Dupari idea of the Adama which is the Godhead which all the Gods are part of.
Could Gedrin has borrowed a warped verson of Adama?
Also I'm assuming that Vindicator is a Holy Avenger, so perhaps any Paladin (or Avenger) can use it?
I love the Ebook format and I especially like how in Shadowbane they really used the medium to its advantage with samples from other novels and the bonus short story. I read SBEOJ in McDonalds beside a mock fireplace drink soda :D |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2013 : 20:14:59
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Great theories, Gyor! I hope you'll forgive me if I can neither confirm not deny.
Glad you enjoy! If you haven't checked out all the supplemental Shadowbane material available, check out http://erikscottdebie.com/Shadowbane
Regarding Kirenkirsalai, I wrote a Backdrop: Westgate article for WotC a few months back, which I hope will be published on DDI eventually. It has more to reveal on the subject.
A couple teasing replies:
Spoilers for the both Shadowbane and SBEOJ to follow!
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
I'm totally on Myrin's side on the issue of Kalen. I'm on Ilra's side and hope she gets the Myrin.
Well, in my work no one really "gets the girl" because no one is just a prize to be won. But yeah, at the end of SB: EOJ, Myrin is definitely with Ilira, not with Kalen.
quote:
Kalen can have his mentor.
And she carries such a torch for him, too! I'm not sure he feels that way about her, but who knows as time unfolds?
quote:
I hope to see Shalis' powers in action during one of Myrin's stolen memories as a Celebrant of Sharess I'm curious how her powers work in action,does she channel them like a Cleric, a Bard, or a Warlock?
Depends what edition we're talking, but she's mostly like a bard. That whole configuration of characters would be fun to explore.
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Although I'm surprised you had Shalis as a Mulan as I would think Glorious Sevitors of Bast would be more common in Mulan, where as Celebrants of Sharess along with Dancers of Sharess and Mystic Wonders would be more common on the Sword Coast.
That was purposeful, actually, because Bast and Sharess are basically the same goddess. Shalis grew up venerating Bast by that name but when she moved to Faerun, she found her goddess waiting by a different name.
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I also like how you use Myrin's memory stealing to explore other characters including those who are already dead.
It's a unique opportunity that I love taking advantage of. Myrin has a big backstory, and I don't know if we'll see all of it. She's every bit as experienced and storied as Ilira ever was as the Fox-at-Twilight, and every bit as mysterious.
quote:
Another guess Myrin's former doppelganger lover was the originally Night Mask leader, who didn't die after all, but fled instead before the guy with the mask (forget his name) came along to lead the Night Masks before it was taken over by vampire Manshoon.
Perhaps. The concept for Umbra actually originates from an actual campaign where I played Myrin (in her former incarnation) as a PC. He was a pretty neat (and deadly) character.
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Just a thought, but the three fold god reminds me of the Dupari idea of the Adama which is the Godhead which all the Gods are part of.
Could Gedrin has borrowed a warped verson of Adama?
Quite possible. The Threefold God is kind of a 4e Triad, which is a concept that's been around a long time.
We don't know Gedrin's backstory that well, though one can extrapolate who his mother was (someone of import). His father is a mystery.
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Also I'm assuming that Vindicator is a Holy Avenger, so perhaps any Paladin (or Avenger) can use it?
Similar concept, not the same mechanics. In 4e terms, Vindicator is a powerful Vigilant Blade. As we've seen, it can be used by people of various alignments, seemingly molding itself and its powers to that cause. The unifying traits appear to be powerful religious faith and a focus on retributive action (justice, vengeance, mercy, etc).
quote:
I love the Ebook format and I especially like how in Shadowbane they really used the medium to its advantage with samples from other novels and the bonus short story. I read SBEOJ in McDonalds beside a mock fireplace drink soda :D
Glad it works for you. It wasn't actually my choice to go ebook-only--WotC sprang that on me after the books were already written. And while the sales figures are lower than print-also books, they've been steady and increasing. Ebooks are here to stay.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2013 : 03:05:04
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Quote:
In long, there's a particular power old school 4e assassins (the shadow-wielding sort, not the executioner build) that harms with the shadow of the blade, rather than the blade itself. It's called "Inescapable Blade." And that's what she used in this instance.
Source?
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Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Edited by - Fellfire on 22 Oct 2013 03:08:37 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2013 : 07:40:35
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The initial 4e Assassin class release in Dragon 379. It's a D&D Insider exclusive, mostly accessible through the 4e character builder.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2013 : 10:05:02
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| Thanks, Eric. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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geok1ng
Acolyte
Brazil
9 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2013 : 18:52:06
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| I congratule eric scott de brie for the excellent work on shadowbane and to a lesser degree, eye of justice. You really did great with the dialogue between shadowbane and the shar follower. It is always a trick subject to bring a religion background to define a character but the result was nothing short of amazing. please forgive me if i was sceptical on the future of shadowbane after the first novel, but now i am looking forward for the sequel. keep up the good work and make us feel elated again. "my faith is stronger than yours" is the new motto. |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2013 : 19:15:16
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Hi geok1ng,
I think you're referring to Sithe in SHADOWBANE? One of my favorite characters.
I'm glad you enjoyed it. Indeed, Sharrans play some small role in the books, and they're an aspect I really liked writing.
If you want to read the full series, check out my website for a reading order.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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huskyshops
Acolyte
USA
1 Posts |
Posted - 28 Dec 2013 : 09:08:41
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Erik:
Thanks for taking the time to answer questions. Fayne is supposedly a feyri but is the daughter of two gold elves- specifically lilten and cythara. Moreover, ilira is hated by fayne for killing Cythara something that lead to the death of yldar as well- yet cythara was the one referred to as the demoness. What am I missing here- how is Fayne a feyri?
Thanks! |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 28 Dec 2013 : 16:32:14
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Well met, HS!
quote:
Originally posted by huskyshops
Fayne is supposedly a feyri but is the daughter of two gold elves- specifically lilten and cythara. Moreover, ilira is hated by fayne for killing Cythara something that lead to the death of yldar as well- yet cythara was the one referred to as the demoness. What am I missing here- how is Fayne a feyri?
This hasn't been fully revealed yet, so this isn't a complete answer. As far as we know, Cythara is just a sun elf--a demon priestess but still mortal. Lilten, however, is far from a mere sun elf. His full name, as used by Ilira in SB:EOJ, is Lilianviaten Dlardrageth, which is the name of a certain ancient house of Daemonfey, and he himself talks about being thousands of years old, his childhood in Siluvanede, etc, see chapter eight. Meaning that he is probably either a feyri or a full on half-fiend sun elf (not entirely clear). So any child of his could certainly be a feyri.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2017 : 02:44:04
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Finally picked this up today on Amazon (and I had to jump through hoops, because I DON'T own a Kindle, and in order to get the Kindle reader they want your cell number, which I NEVER give out).
Anyhow, only up to chapter three, and so far so good. I'll post a review on Amazon when I'm done.
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
Spoilers Chap 1-3
Man..I think I have a new favorite Realms character.
Yaeshl the Ripper....it took Shadowbane and Fox to fell him!
You liked that guy, did you? I wonder if that was intentional.
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How did Fox's rapier render him unconscious(didnt Fox take his pulse and say she thought he'd make it?) without the tip touching him?
In short, shadow magic.
In long, there's a particular power old school 4e assassins (the shadow-wielding sort, not the executioner build) that harms with the shadow of the blade, rather than the blade itself. It's called "Inescapable Blade." And that's what she used in this instance.
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Hopefully we haven't seen the last of Yaeshl and Old Man Tay.
They're very minor characters (and might be dead after that scene), so I don't leave much room in the rest of the novel for them to show up again, but never say never!
Ohhhhh, Erik... you made me a BAD GUY. 
And here I thought I was going to be some kindly and helpful sage...
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 23 Feb 2017 08:10:40 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2020 : 15:51:01
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| Oh man, this thread................... probably contains a lot of hints about my Westgate Irregulars campaign that's launches tomorrow. Ahem! |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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BenN
Senior Scribe
Japan
382 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2020 : 00:10:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Ilira's past hasn't been revealed, but it has been CLAIMED that she used to be a servant of Shar--specifically, an assassin called Shadowfox. This would have been during the quiet century, which was *after* Ilira served Erevan actively as a divine seeker. This may or may not be true.
I will say that a particularly dark tragedy did happen in Ilira's past, ending her adventuring career and *perhaps* pushing her into Shar's arms for a time. But that's a story for another time.
Hey Erik, one thing I would really love is to see new novels featuring Ilira - what she's up to in the present-day Realms, but also about her 'missing' past, e.g. was she really a Netherese assassin?
Also, does she feature in your Westgate Irregulars storyline? She's one of my favourite Realms characters by any author. |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2020 : 00:12:56
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All those questions will be answered in the Westgate irregulars campaign, which launches tomorrow, and she’ll feature in the very first episode.
Http://Dungeonscrawlers.com |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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BenN
Senior Scribe
Japan
382 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2020 : 01:01:13
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Fantastic!  |
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Copper Elven Vampire
Master of Realmslore
1078 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2020 : 02:22:52
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| Please, please, please just write another story featuring Fox-At-Twilight, even if it's on PDF and cost money. If she isn't already dead by 1499 DR I'd love to know how the Shadowdancer rogue and her shadow companion are doing. |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2021 : 02:19:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire
Please, please, please just write another story featuring Fox-At-Twilight, even if it's on PDF and cost money. If she isn't already dead by 1499 DR I'd love to know how the Shadowdancer rogue and her shadow companion are doing.
She's definitely not dead.
Come watch my campaign on Wednesday evenings at twitch.tv/dungeonscrawlers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Shadowbane: Eye of Justice Book Club
