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T O P I C    R E V I E W
portose_sharpe Posted - 08 Nov 2022 : 17:53:45
Hello all again.

I once again come for your views and opinions before I make a ruling.

I have a cleric we casts end to strife, and the wizards casts mindblank on him. So he becomes immune to the spells effects. The spell states if you attack you attack 20d6 points of damage. During the battle the clerics mindblank was dispelled and he would be no longer immune to the spell.

He himself then cast chain dispell on 3 targets. Would you say he would not only be subject to the effects of end to strife. But as he targeted 3 people. He would take the damage 3 times ?

We play 3.5 edition of dungeons and dragons.

(Book of Exalted Deeds, p. 98)

Enchantment (Compulsion) [Mind-Affecting]
Level: Apostle of Peace 9, Cleric 9,
Components: V, S, DF,
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 80 ft.
Area: 80-ft.-radius emanation, centered on you
Duration: 1 round/level
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes

This spell creates an invisible aura of divine power around the caster. All intelligent creatures within the spell's area suddenly become aware that any hostile actions they take will be met with dire consequences.
Any creature in the spell's area that makes an attack takes 20d6 points of damage. The caster decides whether the spell deals lethal or nonlethal damage but cannot change her mind once the spell is cast. Creatures with multiple attacks take the damage after every attack they make.
Targets outside the area of the spell may freely attack creatures in the area without taking damage from this spell.
7   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First)
Demzer Posted - 15 Nov 2022 : 18:47:37
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal

From my last post "All spells that opponents resist with saving throws, that deal damage, or that otherwise harm or hamper subjects are attacks. " , so the rules clearly indicate that dispel magic is not an attack. The rule goes further that try to disarm is to hinder is an attack, an attempt to hold clearly an attempt to hinder, thus an attacks by the rules.



I would say that dispelling any beneficial spell is always to be considered hindering or attacking. Dispelling a disguise, dispelling a protection from elements, dispelling a sanctuary, dispelling a levitate, dispelling a stoneskin all could result in the harming or hindering of the recipient of the dispel.

I mean, if someone is near death and you dispel their rage, aid/false life (temp hp buff) you would send them to the negatives or you might straight up kill them, yet you would not rule it as an attack?
Kentinal Posted - 14 Nov 2022 : 21:12:57
quote:
Originally posted by portose_sharpe

I understand what you are saying. However if you look at it from that point of view, as it not being an attack even though it could be considered an offensive move. Or at least a disarming move. Would that also mean if someone was to disarm someone or to cast hold person or dominate. Then they would also not been classified as an attack. ?


Are you a bot, you have posted the exact same words to both of my replies?

My second post clearly indicates that dispel is not an attack spell.

From my last post "All spells that opponents resist with saving throws, that deal damage, or that otherwise harm or hamper subjects are attacks. " , so the rules clearly indicate that dispel magic is not an attack. The rule goes further that try to disarm is to hinder is an attack, an attempt to hold clearly an attempt to hinder, thus an attacks by the rules.
portose_sharpe Posted - 14 Nov 2022 : 19:14:29
I understand what you are saying. However if you look at it from that point of view, as it not being an attack even though it could be considered an offensive move. Or at least a disarming move. Would that also mean if someone was to disarm someone or to cast hold person or dominate. Then they would also not been classified as an attack. ?
Kentinal Posted - 11 Nov 2022 : 15:00:52
From the SRD 3.5

quote:
Attacks

Some spell descriptions refer to attacking. All offensive combat actions, even those that donít damage opponents are considered attacks. Attempts to turn or rebuke undead count as attacks. All spells that opponents resist with saving throws, that deal damage, or that otherwise harm or hamper subjects are attacks. Spells that summon monsters or other allies are not attacks because the spells themselves donít harm anyone.


Dispel does not face a saving throw , so by the rules its casting is not an attack spell. Therefore supporting my opinion casting that spell is not an attack at all.

Dispel goes against a spellís caster level check.
bloodtide_the_red Posted - 11 Nov 2022 : 02:34:24
This depends on what you count as "an attack". It is easy for the game to say "making an attack roll".....but that leaves open a HUGE hole of the TON of "attacks" that don't require an attack roll.

And you can go on forever with what is an attack, by "what happens".

And how much does the "spell know".... the "spell" understands dropping a rock on someone with telekinesis is "an attack", but the spell "knows" casting a fireball on a fire elemental is not an "attack" as it won't hurt it.

Is casting Darkness or Grease or a Dispel "an attack"?

I think I'd use the rule "Anything the needs a roll to hit OR requires the target to make a Save/opposing roll".

portose_sharpe Posted - 09 Nov 2022 : 19:07:11
I understand what you are saying. However if you look at it from that point of view, as it not being an attack even though it could be considered an offensive move. Or at least a disarming move. Would that also mean if someone was to disarm someone or to cast hold person or dominate. Then they would also not been classified as an attack. ?
Kentinal Posted - 08 Nov 2022 : 23:25:08
Mind blank protects from detection and mind effecting spells.
quote:
all devices and spells that detect, influence, or read emotions or thoughts. This spell protects against all mind-affecting spells and effects as well as information gathering by divination spells or effects.
So it does not matter the spell being dispelled. Not sure how the undetected person was targeted, certainly not by magic. Line of sight though would work.

The character walking into the area of effect of End to Strife cast by another spell caster appears to be the question?

Casting dispel magic is not what I would normal call an attack spell. So I believe there would be no penalty for casting that magic, that might fail and even if succeeds does not cause or seek to cause damage to target, should be damaged.

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