| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Sunderstone |
Posted - 13 Feb 2022 : 20:44:28
Other than Salvatore's books, is the FR novel line dead for all intents and purposes? |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 13 Mar 2022 : 05:34:37
I think it says everything about my tastes that I always felt Drizzt's musings on the nature of Dungeons and Dragons, morality, gods, and reality were the best part of his stories.
And I totally bought The Dao of Drizzt.
Which is solely for the alliteration I'm sure. They SHOULD have called it, "Ranger Wisdom: The Philosophy of Drizzt Do'Urden." |
| Varl |
Posted - 12 Mar 2022 : 14:42:17
quote:
Sure, not every new character is going to put their author on the NYT Bestseller list -- but there were a lot of novel characters that were the focus of entire trilogies, if not more than that. You don't have to hit it out of the park to get a home run.
Absolutely. While I'm only in a few novels deep into the Harper series, subsequent novels to stories I'm reading now would ALWAYS make me reach for my wallet. I'd LOVE to learn there was more to read concerning Martine and Krote from Soldiers of Ice or whether Caledan and Mari from Crypt of the Shadowking ever got together and had more adventures. Recurring heroes are one of my greatest attractions to FR lore and really seems like a no-brainer to any company wishing to increase its bottom line.
I'm sure you scribes and loremasters know whether something was expanded upon from a novel or not, but I don't. Any forwarding information on these novels and others would be appreciated, since it seems WotC won't be helping me in that. |
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 25 Feb 2022 : 20:50:35
There is also probably a couple pages of a "a word from the author" type of entry. |
| Eldacar |
Posted - 25 Feb 2022 : 13:47:56
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-I'm more surprised it's 336 pages. I know Drizzt didn't have 336 pages of musings, so wonder what all those pages are gonna be.
Actually, I'm fairly certain he did. He's been in what, 30+ books? That's not even 10 pages a book.
It's been a long time and I'm going off memory (since the books themselves are in another country right now), but my old omnibus edition of the Icewind Dale trilogy had those musings taking up perhaps four to five pages each.
I would be willing to believe that you can get to 336 pages. Discount the starting pages, finishing pages, maybe sprinkle in a few new ones to join the old ones, and it could reach that number. |
| The Red Walker |
Posted - 24 Feb 2022 : 23:22:13
I’ll take your word for it… I’ve read and enjoyed every Drizzt novel and thumbed right past ever journal entry since the very first 
I’ll just keep hoping his sales numbers spur more FR novels from other authors |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 22 Feb 2022 : 02:18:02
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-I'm more surprised it's 336 pages. I know Drizzt didn't have 336 pages of musings, so wonder what all those pages are gonna be.
Actually, I'm fairly certain he did. He's been in what, 30+ books? That's not even 10 pages a book. |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 22 Feb 2022 : 02:10:00
-Didn't realize the price, either, but that's about par the course for coffee table kinda books I guess. A Reader's Guide to R. A. Salvatore's the Legend of Drizzt was like $30-ish when it came out, so adjust for bullshit inflation and whatever.
-I'm more surprised it's 336 pages. I know Drizzt didn't have 336 pages of musings, so wonder what all those pages are gonna be. |
| HighOne |
Posted - 21 Feb 2022 : 23:30:50
That's significantly more expensive than the most recent novel. The product description describes it as a "beautifully packaged gift book," which suggests a coffee table-sized book, but the dimensions are the same as a standard hardcover. Odd. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 21 Feb 2022 : 22:28:52
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
I can’t believe that the fire in this scroll isn’t directed solely at the astronomical $40 price tag I’m seeing on this compilation!
Is there something special out it I’m missing? Is it leather bound? Or a massive page count?
Wow, I didn't even notice that. Even if this was something I was interested in, I'd find that price problematic. That's more than a hardcover novel and closer to game material price tags.
$40 for a compilation of existing material... There better be a really deluxe cover or a centerfold of Pwent or Cattie-Brie (Whatever your preference) or a slipcase or something like that, included in that price! |
| The Red Walker |
Posted - 21 Feb 2022 : 22:18:18
I can’t believe that the fire in this scroll isn’t directed solely at the astronomical $40 price tag I’m seeing on this compilation!
Is there something special out it I’m missing? Is it leather bound? Or a massive page count? |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 21 Feb 2022 : 17:10:42
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
[quote]EDIT: it's just the second time in as many weeks that someone has come on here and essentially tried a hatchet job on a writer. First it was the guy attacking Ed, now someone attacking Bob. Just sucks.
-Finding the content of the book lacking because the content is seemingly limited and/or contrived or the title of the book problematic because the term has certain connotations in western thought is far from a hatchet job.
-To get back on track a little, I think a book of Forgotten Realms philosophies could be a cool product. You would need to have writers skilled enough to convey difficult concepts in writing (in terms of understanding and sometimes in terms of figuring out what the heck is going on in-universe), but if done right, something that could be like among the top level products the line has. I remember a while back when I was looking for some inspiration for my own world's regions and philosophies, I noticed the Forgotten Realms had a startling lack of things like specific holy books, specific prayers, specific philosophies that were spelled out in published sourcebooks or web articles. Seeing religious dogmas written out and described in-universe by followers would be a cool coffee table kind of book or series of web articles. Maybe a book of short stories a la the Realms Of X, with stories featuring little cross sections of the major philosophies and faiths, but that would probably be most difficult to pull off.
Fair point. Guess I'm just wary of "softening the target" to a degree that I am out of bounds on my assertion. Fair enough. My apologies for accusations of a hatchet job here.
As for it being the "Dao of Drizzt" I don't think it is really a horrible title considering Kara-Tur does exist in the world, there are monastic orders all over Faerun and etc. It is a fantasy world with parallels to this world because of the cultures that exist within it.
A fantasy setting like the FR (as it came to be, not the way Ed originally envisioned it having fewer real world comparisons) has to use wording similar to the Fantasy Cultures (and their real world inspirations) to maintain a degree of familiarity for the reader.
Is the "Dao of Drizzt" going to be a good read?
I didn't find the dark elf's reflections the reason I originally enjoyed the novels...so not sure on this. Like any novel, some will love it and some fewer will not.
There is a reason Bob is able to continue selling books. |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 20 Feb 2022 : 17:13:29
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
[quote]EDIT: it's just the second time in as many weeks that someone has come on here and essentially tried a hatchet job on a writer. First it was the guy attacking Ed, now someone attacking Bob. Just sucks.
-Finding the content of the book lacking because the content is seemingly limited and/or contrived or the title of the book problematic because the term has certain connotations in western thought is far from a hatchet job.
-To get back on track a little, I think a book of Forgotten Realms philosophies could be a cool product. You would need to have writers skilled enough to convey difficult concepts in writing (in terms of understanding and sometimes in terms of figuring out what the heck is going on in-universe), but if done right, something that could be like among the top level products the line has. I remember a while back when I was looking for some inspiration for my own world's regions and philosophies, I noticed the Forgotten Realms had a startling lack of things like specific holy books, specific prayers, specific philosophies that were spelled out in published sourcebooks or web articles. Seeing religious dogmas written out and described in-universe by followers would be a cool coffee table kind of book or series of web articles. Maybe a book of short stories a la the Realms Of X, with stories featuring little cross sections of the major philosophies and faiths, but that would probably be most difficult to pull off. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 20 Feb 2022 : 04:58:30
quote:
Originally posted by ElfBane
Woody, the fact that you were responded to... indicates you don't have the power to Lock a Thread. Is that so?
I do have the power to lock threads, and to delete posts. I prefer not to. I'd rather we move past disagreements, rather than slamming the door on them. |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 20 Feb 2022 : 04:27:46
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by ElfBane
This thread may need to be locked.
I agree that we've fully explored that particular tangent and need to leave off with it. If you guys want to continue that discussion, please take it to PM.
My apologies.
Ban me, boot me, what have you.
Being accused of ad hominem attack when I didn't is garbage...in light of the attacks on me being called a "mediocre white man" and ignorant and sullying Chinese culture by using "google-fu" and so on.
Delete the whole damn thing right before you delete me.
Don't care.
It used to be that virtues were earned by doing things and making sacrifices in our lives. Today, it can be done simply by trash talking someone's writing and making accusations.
I'm sorry Wooly, you are awesome. Never think for a second that I don't respect you and this forum.
It's just maybe not for me anymore.
EDIT: it's just the second time in as many weeks that someone has come on here and essentially tried a hatchet job on a writer. First it was the guy attacking Ed, now someone attacking Bob. Just sucks. |
| ElfBane |
Posted - 19 Feb 2022 : 23:19:38
Woody, the fact that you were responded to... indicates you don't have the power to Lock a Thread. Is that so?
|
| Delnyn |
Posted - 19 Feb 2022 : 19:24:48
I will pass on the Dao of Drizzt. No more Drizzt stuff for me. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 19 Feb 2022 : 10:50:25
quote:
Originally posted by ElfBane
This thread may need to be locked.
I agree that we've fully explored that particular tangent and need to leave off with it. If you guys want to continue that discussion, please take it to PM. |
| ElfBane |
Posted - 19 Feb 2022 : 07:13:12
This thread may need to be locked. |
| sno4wy |
Posted - 19 Feb 2022 : 05:16:41
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
So, you are saying you grew up in China and speak both?
Yet you are giving me an entirely different "truth" compared to every single Cantonese speaking individual I have ever met. Contrary to my friend who was HR admin for PetroChina who made his son my godson and is Mandarin and used to talk sh** about Cantonese people and their "dirty language"...that is what you are saying?
You are literally saying that Cantonese is a "dialect" of "Chinese" when, even in China, only native speakers of Mandarin would make the claim that their language is "Chinese" (and then only because it is the dominant language forced on Cantonese speakers, and others, when they go to school). Cantonese speakers are allowed their language at home, but the moment they cross the school line, they are forced to speak Mandarin. Publicly they are forced to use Mandarin so that their social credit score doesn't tank.
You are saying that these are not different languages; but that Cantonese is only a "dialect" of Chinese.
Even though, internationally, there is a plethora of programs dedicated to the study of the many languages of China. It is easy to find, search any language institute at a major university...worldwide.
Mandarin does indeed have many dialects:
Mandarin (and its recognized dialects)
-Beijing Mandarin
--Standard Chinese (the language you say is all encompassing and only has dialects...is that right?)
--Singaporean Mandarin
--Malaysian Mandarin
-Taiwanese Mandarin
--Taipei Mandarin
-Northeastern Mandarin
-Jilu Mandarin
-Jiaoliao Mandarin
-Zhongyuan Mandarin
-Lanyin Mandarin
-Lower Yangtze Mandarin
-Southwestern Mandarin
That is Mandarin and its dialects.
Jin, Wu, Huizhou, Yue (here you find Cantonese) and MANY others are all DIFFERENT languages in China.
I don't care what you say...just because characters are used in common doesn't make a language a dialect of Chinese...the characters simply made all these UNIQUE languages mutually understandable in WRITTEN form. It did NOT make them the same language.
Your persistence to the contrary by appealing to your personal experience doesn't change fact.
I don't enjoy pissing contests. So I'm not saying anything else about this language crap. Anyone can find out about the official count of different languages in China...google it.
Don't attack the man...provide verifiable facts...or take your ball and go home.
That aside, lets roll down the street of Cultural Appropriation as you talk about your personal experience growing up in China and using that as fodder for an argument about what we just set to rest eh?
That is ridiculous.
Let me remind you that you're the one who first cited your own experiences and relations, to assert some sort of authority/validity over me, whom you assumed had less "credentials" than yourself. Now that you've found out that that's not the case and that you lose on the "credentials" front, you resort to ad hominem attacks and attempting to downplay my experiences, which I'd shared in response to your sharing of your personal experiences/relations. Very mature. Hypocrisy much?
To answer your question, yes, I grew up in China and I speak both Mandarin and Cantonese, as well as other dialects of #20013;#25991;, which is the same phrase that both Mandarin and Cantonese use to describe the language of the region - it literally translates into "language/text of the middle kingdom", or in other words, Chinese.
How many Cantonese-speaking individuals have you met? Where did they come from? Unless you've met literally thousands of people, again, your "credentials" fall short. You keep touting them however, while simultaneously putting me down when I do the same because, according to you, personal relations and experience do not matter in this topic when they belong to me, but when they belong to you they're valid points, kindly pick one approach and stick to it, you can't have it both ways. You share details that no one cares about regarding your god son to make some sort of point, and yet feel it's totally valid to put down my objective statements of the language.
Although I'm sure you're going to dismiss this as yet another what you call "fodder", my Cantonese-speaking relatives in Taiwan, who are fiercely anti-north, refer to Mandarin as an "accent of #20013;#25991;", and it's a commonly-shared perspective there. When the natives have this perspective, I trust it more than some foreigner who relies on Google articles that claim that Mandarin and Cantonese are different languages while in the very same article refer to the two as dialects of one another. Read more carefully in your Google-fu, your opinion is not "fact" just because a few search results fit your perspective, especially when the articles contradict themselves.
I'm really sorry that I inadvertently one-upped your Chinese validity by actually being Chinese. Trust me, if I could've been born with the privilege and ignorance enjoyed by mediocre white men, I'd choose that in a heartbeat. As it is, this here is a perfect example of what it's like trying to explain cultural appropriation to someone who's convinced he knows better than a member of that culture because knowing someone who speaks the language makes him an expert: he derails the subject, does the cultural equivalent of mansplaining, and resorts to ad hominem attacks. Such textbook behavior of those who pretend that cultural appropriation/racism/bigotry aren't real it's painful.
I originally was going to respond with just an  , but I made the mistake of giving this guy the benefit of the doubt. Silly me. Other readers can take what they will from this, I'm done here. |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 19 Feb 2022 : 03:54:36
quote:
Originally posted by sno4wy
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
My godson is from Beijing. Speaks Mandarin obviously. The dominant Mandarin (for both political expedience and ethnic motivations that aren't so noble) is what most think is "Chinese" but it isn't.
My own son speaks Mandarin and a smattering of Cantonese.
They ARE different languages, it isn't up for "debate" at all. The idea that the two are dialects stems from a Eurocentric world view about "China" and "Chinese" being the same thing. They aren't. I worked for PetroChina for a while as an English Language Instructor. I promise you that Mandarin and Cantonese are different languages.
Yes, they use the same alphabet...but so do the French and English.
Want to tell someone from a European country they speak a "Dialect of European" and they will laugh in your face.
So, like I said. The word "dao" means several different things in different languages. I don't normally quote Wikipedia...but it is simple enough:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_China
The first paragraph will put it plainly into focus.
As a person who was born in and grew up in China, first, to describe the basis of the written language as an "alphabet" is simply ridiculous. You might've said "alphabet" because it is true that there is no direct equivalence to English, however obtaining literacy in Chinese is measured by how many characters one knows. The standards have dropped since my time growing up, but back then, knowing 3000 characters was considered secondary school levels of literacy. Having studied both the complex form, which is commonly used with Cantonese, and the simplified form, which is commonly used with Mandarin, I can obviously read both forms, but an individual doesn't need to have learned both to be able to be literate in both. People who are only schooled in the complex form can more often read the simplified form than vice versa, because the simplified form, as its moniker implies, is literally a simpler version. It's the same language, written the same way, and while there are sometimes differences in sentence constructions, the only difference is the number of strokes for some, not even all, characters. To make an analogy, the sentence in English, "the quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog", doesn't become a different language if you changed it to, "the quick brown fox lazy dog jumped over".
I described Mandarin and Cantonese as different dialects of the Chinese language because this is the perception that was prominent as I was growing up, as well as being prominent within my Chinese-American circles now. It is a northern China centric view for sure, and speaking as an American, I can see the importance in viewing Mandarin and Cantonese as separate languages rather than dialects, as I believe that Taiwan, Hong Kong, Tibet, and probably other areas deserve to be free of the PRC's stifling rule (PRC please don't come after me I'm just arguing with random people over the internet in a small fandom >_>). That said, in a purely technical sense, what's essentially the same written language pronounced differently is the definition of a dialect.
My original post wasn't even mainly about this however, it was about the issue of cultural appropriation. Daoism is an entire culture/religion practiced by a group of people. It's a governing way of life for many Chinese people who aren't active practitioners of the religion as well as being a core theme in its literature, including the texts that are central to cultural identity. It's so much more than meaning "road" or "way". It's like how Native American headdresses have cultural meaning and other people using them because they look cool is cultural appropriation and is not appropriate.
So, you are saying you grew up in China and speak both?
Yet you are giving me an entirely different "truth" compared to every single Cantonese speaking individual I have ever met. Contrary to my friend who was HR admin for PetroChina who made his son my godson and is Mandarin and used to talk sh** about Cantonese people and their "dirty language"...that is what you are saying?
You are literally saying that Cantonese is a "dialect" of "Chinese" when, even in China, only native speakers of Mandarin would make the claim that their language is "Chinese" (and then only because it is the dominant language forced on Cantonese speakers, and others, when they go to school). Cantonese speakers are allowed their language at home, but the moment they cross the school line, they are forced to speak Mandarin. Publicly they are forced to use Mandarin so that their social credit score doesn't tank.
You are saying that these are not different languages; but that Cantonese is only a "dialect" of Chinese.
Even though, internationally, there is a plethora of programs dedicated to the study of the many languages of China. It is easy to find, search any language institute at a major university...worldwide.
Mandarin does indeed have many dialects:
Mandarin (and its recognized dialects)
-Beijing Mandarin
--Standard Chinese (the language you say is all encompassing and only has dialects...is that right?)
--Singaporean Mandarin
--Malaysian Mandarin
-Taiwanese Mandarin
--Taipei Mandarin
-Northeastern Mandarin
-Jilu Mandarin
-Jiaoliao Mandarin
-Zhongyuan Mandarin
-Lanyin Mandarin
-Lower Yangtze Mandarin
-Southwestern Mandarin
That is Mandarin and its dialects.
Jin, Wu, Huizhou, Yue (here you find Cantonese) and MANY others are all DIFFERENT languages in China.
I don't care what you say...just because characters are used in common doesn't make a language a dialect of Chinese...the characters simply made all these UNIQUE languages mutually understandable in WRITTEN form. It did NOT make them the same language.
Your persistence to the contrary by appealing to your personal experience doesn't change fact.
I don't enjoy pissing contests. So I'm not saying anything else about this language crap. Anyone can find out about the official count of different languages in China...google it.
Don't attack the man...provide verifiable facts...or take your ball and go home.
That aside, lets roll down the street of Cultural Appropriation as you talk about your personal experience growing up in China and using that as fodder for an argument about what we just set to rest eh?
That is ridiculous. |
| sno4wy |
Posted - 18 Feb 2022 : 22:51:57
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
My godson is from Beijing. Speaks Mandarin obviously. The dominant Mandarin (for both political expedience and ethnic motivations that aren't so noble) is what most think is "Chinese" but it isn't.
My own son speaks Mandarin and a smattering of Cantonese.
They ARE different languages, it isn't up for "debate" at all. The idea that the two are dialects stems from a Eurocentric world view about "China" and "Chinese" being the same thing. They aren't. I worked for PetroChina for a while as an English Language Instructor. I promise you that Mandarin and Cantonese are different languages.
Yes, they use the same alphabet...but so do the French and English.
Want to tell someone from a European country they speak a "Dialect of European" and they will laugh in your face.
So, like I said. The word "dao" means several different things in different languages. I don't normally quote Wikipedia...but it is simple enough:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_China
The first paragraph will put it plainly into focus.
As a person who was born in and grew up in China, first, to describe the basis of the written language as an "alphabet" is simply ridiculous. You might've said "alphabet" because it is true that there is no direct equivalence to English, however obtaining literacy in Chinese is measured by how many characters one knows. The standards have dropped since my time growing up, but back then, knowing 3000 characters was considered secondary school levels of literacy. Having studied both the complex form, which is commonly used with Cantonese, and the simplified form, which is commonly used with Mandarin, I can obviously read both forms, but an individual doesn't need to have learned both to be able to be literate in both. People who are only schooled in the complex form can more often read the simplified form than vice versa, because the simplified form, as its moniker implies, is literally a simpler version. It's the same language, written the same way, and while there are sometimes differences in sentence constructions, the only difference is the number of strokes for some, not even all, characters. To make an analogy, the sentence in English, "the quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog", doesn't become a different language if you changed it to, "the quick brown fox lazy dog jumped over".
I described Mandarin and Cantonese as different dialects of the Chinese language because this is the perception that was prominent as I was growing up, as well as being prominent within my Chinese-American circles now. It is a northern China centric view for sure, and speaking as an American, I can see the importance in viewing Mandarin and Cantonese as separate languages rather than dialects, as I believe that Taiwan, Hong Kong, Tibet, and probably other areas deserve to be free of the PRC's stifling rule (PRC please don't come after me I'm just arguing with random people over the internet in a small fandom >_>). That said, in a purely technical sense, what's essentially the same written language pronounced differently is the definition of a dialect.
My original post wasn't even mainly about this however, it was about the issue of cultural appropriation. Daoism is an entire culture/religion practiced by a group of people. It's a governing way of life for many Chinese people who aren't active practitioners of the religion as well as being a core theme in its literature, including the texts that are central to cultural identity. It's so much more than meaning "road" or "way". It's like how Native American headdresses have cultural meaning and other people using them because they look cool is cultural appropriation and is not appropriate. |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 18 Feb 2022 : 20:28:00
quote:
Originally posted by HighOne
I've never heard this before. Do you have a source? Also, I can believe the novels were more profitable when Drizzt and Dragonlance were at their height, but that was a good 30 years ago. I doubt very much that the novel line was more profitable in the past 20 years. I mean, how well do you think the the Sundering series sold compared to 5E in 2014? I'd bet not very well.
-I can believe it.
-In 2005, I bought Lost Empires of Faerun, which came out to $29.95. That same year I also bought Annihilation (Paperback), Elminster's Daughter (Paperback), Extinction (Paperback)
Farthest Reach (Paperback), Ghostwalker (Paperback), Homeland Reprint (Hardcover), Midnight's Mask (Paperback), Realms of the Dragons II (Paperback), The Rite (Paperback), and Silverfall (Paperback). At 6.99 apiece (and honestly, some might've been more expensive), those 9 paperbacks come out to $62.91. The hardcover came out to $25.95, making total novel expenditures $88.86.
-In 2006, I bought two sourcebooks, Dragons of Faerun & Power of Faerun. At $29.95 each, that comes out to $59.90 on sourcebooks. That same year I also bought Blackstaff (Paperback), Bladesinger (Paperback), Bloodwalk (Paperback), Darkvision (Paperback), Final Gate (Paperback), Frostfell (Paperback), Promise of the Witch King (Paperback), Realms of the Elves (Paperback)
Resurrection (Paperback), The Ruin (Paperback), Shadowbred (Paperback), and Son of Thunder (Paperback). At 6.99 apiece (and honestly, some might've been more expensive), those 12 paperbacks come out to $83.88.
-So that's $89.85 on sourcebooks and $172.74. While I might not be a great example of the "average consumer", the lower price point of novels was made up by their more frequent publishing schedule and their greater reach/fanbase. |
| HighOne |
Posted - 18 Feb 2022 : 19:58:20
I perused Alta Fox's Hasbro complaint, and the end of the novel line (surprisingly) doesn't come into it. Their other criticisms seem pretty spot on, however. They mention, for example, Hasbro's $4.6b acquisition of eOne a couple years ago:
"The expensive and speculative eOne acquisition for $4.6B in 20191 was not required to make a MTG TV show or D&D movie
and saddled the company with billions in debt, which years later it is still working to repay – this is reinvestment capital that could have gone into further developing core WOTC IP. "
Ain't that the truth.
You can read the whole thing yourself: https://freethewizards.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/Alta-Fox-HAS-Presentation-Final.pdf |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 18 Feb 2022 : 19:08:34
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Grafalcon
I'm amazed at how bolder the company was in past decades. If I remember correctly, the Baldur's Gate game project was delivered to a small and inexperienced group, and look how successful it has become. Recruitment to produce novels was broad, at a time when printing costs were higher. One could argue that the company is far richer now, but it's a little disappointing to learn that it earns more than ever, and isn't very open to new products.
That's one of the things I've mentioned more than once, especially with regard to novels. As the novel line was slowing down, it became more tightly focused on a handful of proven authors writing about existing characters. It seemed like WotC was unwilling to take a chance on anything that wasn't a sure bet.
...Which is kind of ridiculous, considering that every single one of those "sure bet" characters was once someone brand new, being introduced to the readers for the first time.
Sure, not every new character is going to put their author on the NYT Bestseller list -- but there were a lot of novel characters that were the focus of entire trilogies, if not more than that. You don't have to hit it out of the park to get a home run. |
| Captain Grafalcon |
Posted - 18 Feb 2022 : 17:14:37
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by HighOne
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
From what some former TSR/WotC staffers have said, it wasn't about the money -- the novels were actually more profitable than the game material.
I've never heard this before. Do you have a source? Also, I can believe the novels were more profitable when Drizzt and Dragonlance were at their height, but that was a good 30 years ago. I doubt very much that the novel line was more profitable in the past 20 years. I mean, how well do you think the the Sundering series sold compared to 5E in 2014? I'd bet not very well.
No source, aside from hearing them say it directly, at a couple of the Candlekeep seminars at GenCon.
And it wasn't that the novels earned more money, it was that a novel would have a higher percentage profit than a gaming book. It's fair to say the novels likely brought in less money overall, because of their smaller price tags, but the returns on them were better.
What perplexes me most about the decision is that novels are not edition-dependent, and that they have a broader reach. You can read novels without knowing a thing about the game, and I've seen plenty of newcomers specifically cite novels as what drew them in. They can keep printing the novels for years, long after the rules editions change, and places that would never carry gaming material can carry the novels.
If I became President of WotC tomorrow, getting some of the older novels back in print would be my first objective.
I'm amazed at how bolder the company was in past decades. If I remember correctly, the Baldur's Gate game project was delivered to a small and inexperienced group, and look how successful it has become. Recruitment to produce novels was broad, at a time when printing costs were higher. One could argue that the company is far richer now, but it's a little disappointing to learn that it earns more than ever, and isn't very open to new products. |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 18 Feb 2022 : 14:44:48
quote:
Originally posted by sno4wy
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
"dao" is simply a word that means "road" as well as anything else like "arrive" and so on...depends on if you are speaking Mandarin, Cantonese or etc. There is no such thing as a "Chinese Language" any more than there is any such thing as speaking "European" as a language.
Except that different countries in Europe speak different languages, and different Asian countries speak different languages. Mandarin and Cantonese are closer to two different dialects than two different languages, but it's not at all accurate to say that the Chinese language isn't its own separate and unique language.
Dao/Tao also specifically refers to a philosophy/culture, there's a reason why RAS went with the Dao of Drizzt instead of the pad (Afrikaans)/rrugë (Albanian)/#4632;#4757;#4872;#4853; (Amharic)/#1591;#1585;#1610;#1602; (Arabic)/#1395;#1377;#1398;#1377;#1402;#1377;#1408;#1392;(Armenian)/"road" in any other language of Drizzt, because he's specifically referring to that philosophy/culture.
Edit: Apparently this site can't handle certain special characters, but regardless, my point stands.
My godson is from Beijing. Speaks Mandarin obviously. The dominant Mandarin (for both political expedience and ethnic motivations that aren't so noble) is what most think is "Chinese" but it isn't.
My own son speaks Mandarin and a smattering of Cantonese.
They ARE different languages, it isn't up for "debate" at all. The idea that the two are dialects stems from a Eurocentric world view about "China" and "Chinese" being the same thing. They aren't. I worked for PetroChina for a while as an English Language Instructor. I promise you that Mandarin and Cantonese are different languages.
Yes, they use the same alphabet...but so do the French and English.
Want to tell someone from a European country they speak a "Dialect of European" and they will laugh in your face.
So, like I said. The word "dao" means several different things in different languages. I don't normally quote Wikipedia...but it is simple enough:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_China
The first paragraph will put it plainly into focus. |
| HighOne |
Posted - 18 Feb 2022 : 05:34:54
I like the Drizzt novels, but even I tend to skip the philosophical passages. The few I've read came across as pretentious and over-wrought, and they added nothing to the story. So yeah, I share Wooly's skepticism. I don't see this book being a big seller. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 18 Feb 2022 : 05:15:52
Like Dalor, the title doesn't bother me.
But the content? Well, even before I swore off reading about that character, I didn't like the journal entries.
Obviously someone thinks there's a market for this book... I have to wonder if the market is really there or if this is misplaced optimism. I know which I personally think it is, but the flip side is, I don't have the data that was used to justify trying this. |
| sno4wy |
Posted - 18 Feb 2022 : 05:15:32
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
"dao" is simply a word that means "road" as well as anything else like "arrive" and so on...depends on if you are speaking Mandarin, Cantonese or etc. There is no such thing as a "Chinese Language" any more than there is any such thing as speaking "European" as a language.
Except that different countries in Europe speak different languages, and different Asian countries speak different languages. Mandarin and Cantonese are closer to two different dialects than two different languages, but it's not at all accurate to say that the Chinese language isn't its own separate and unique language.
Dao/Tao also specifically refers to a philosophy/culture, there's a reason why RAS went with the Dao of Drizzt instead of the pad (Afrikaans)/rrugë (Albanian)/#4632;#4757;#4872;#4853; (Amharic)/#1591;#1585;#1610;#1602; (Arabic)/#1395;#1377;#1398;#1377;#1402;#1377;#1408;#1392;(Armenian)/"road" in any other language of Drizzt, because he's specifically referring to that philosophy/culture.
Edit: Apparently this site can't handle certain special characters, but regardless, my point stands. |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 18 Feb 2022 : 04:31:06
"dao" is simply a word that means "road" as well as anything else like "arrive" and so on...depends on if you are speaking Mandarin, Cantonese or etc. There is no such thing as a "Chinese Language" any more than there is any such thing as speaking "European" as a language.
I have zero problems with the title any more than I have problems with the English language absorbing words like "Taco" or anything else. It's a word. It isn't appropriating anything.
As for their dropping the ball on their novels...stupid move. Just one of the most horrid decisions I've ever seen a company make. They could literally have HUNDREDS of novels still for sale making clear money. |
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