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T O P I C    R E V I E W
Gary Dallison Posted - 26 May 2020 : 16:01:22
So i'm going to bite the bullet and read the novels to mine them for lore.

Is anyone interested in me posting the details here so i can spare others the pain of having to read them (and for easy reference later)?
30   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First)
Gary Dallison Posted - 13 Jun 2023 : 06:48:44
I'm fine with that, although I'm nowhere near finished yet, and the later ones are more direct quotes.

Unfortunately I'm having trouble posting large blocks of text in this thread, so I've moved on since my last post.

If you want a zip of everything so far then just message me with your email.
Razz Posted - 13 Jun 2023 : 03:09:06
These should be compiled and have its own page on the home page of Candlekeep.

I'm definitely one who would prefer FR Lore-only information from the novels in an easy to reference location.
TBeholder Posted - 16 Apr 2023 : 16:29:47
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

First is Ed on twitter wrote about yakmen in a mount something near citadel adbar, so there is a presence in the north that may or may not be historical.

This shows going North for metals is something they do, with encouragement of the Faceless God. And that they have access to this particular place, of course.
For that matter, complete lack of aggression from that outpost may be a result of previous experience on just how expensive fighting even a very modest dwarf hold in mountains can get.
The big problem is time. The yakmen were created by the forgotten god who originated in the ruined kingdoms and was ousted and then established the riparian empire. The timeframe for the ruined kingdoms is unlikely to be long before dalereckoning and so the yikaria did not exist during Netherils time.

Why? Was there a specific reason for particular timing?
To think of it, the yikaria were not at their full capabilities yet, obviously that war should have been going on before Faceless God collared the dao. Otherwise the dwarves of Iron Mountains would get extinct quickly and thoroughly, much like the drow under Zakhara presumably did.
Gary Dallison Posted - 16 Apr 2023 : 08:10:02
Your giant empire information is littered throughout the sources.

The perilous portals web articles, specifically of the frozen wastes details a giant kingdom in the north of faerun and even links qureshi genies to them. There is also hints of a netherese interaction there as well.

As for the forgotten god, he is mentioned in the Alqadim sourcebooks, as well as the dragon mag article on yakfolk, and a mention in the complete necromancers handbook, with smattering on twitter more recently.
Karthak Posted - 16 Apr 2023 : 00:50:48
Yeah, the date didn't seem right to me, as I wasn't aware any mentions of interactions between the Netherese and Giant empires, which would be a major thing to omit from books.

Storm Kings Thunder could go either way with the ties between Yakfolk and Giants, yes they've been camped out above the entrance to a giant's mine for centuries but it's only recently that the Fire Giant duke found the place and made an arrangement with the Yakfolk.

I'm quite interested in the notion that the giants had a vestigal empire in the north at the same time as the Netherese so that'll require some investigation. I'm also interested in this Forgotten God of Zakhara as it sounds quite different to Tharizdun despite also being a god that lords over all 4 major Elements, do you know of any sources for information other than SKT?
Gary Dallison Posted - 15 Apr 2023 : 14:40:36
I'll presume you got the -2400 DR fall of Ostoria from Giantcraft, and all i can say is that date is incorrect.

GHoTR gives the time of Ostoria as an empire battling the dragons as -26000 to -25000

After that war, Ostoria the empire was fallen and only much smaller kingdoms remained, spread across Faerun.

The far northernmost kingdom may have referred to itself as Ostoria and continued perhaps until -2400 DR, but i do not believe this is the fall of Ostoria referenced in Storm Kings Thunder (since it also mentioned a conflict with dragons).

The Yakfolk appear to have been tied to the giants historically as implied by Storm Kings Thunder, and it also says they have their possession ability, which implies that they possessed this ability long before the Forgotten God of Zakhara, or perhaps, the Forgotten God's meddling affected all yakfolk (including those in the far north).

Might need lots more investigation, but yakfolk appear to have been around an awfully long time (and not a thousand years or more as implied by Zakharan lore)
Karthak Posted - 15 Apr 2023 : 13:19:47
Ostoria fell in the -2400s, so millenia being read as just 2000 years would still put the Yakfolk as arriving prior to Netheril's fall,

Couldn't find any clear cut explanations for the minotaurs being in the labyrinth in OotA, just that they'd been there for a while and worshipped Baphomet, which ties into 5e lore of cults to Baphomet being the cause of Minotaurs existing in the first place.
Which rules out Netherese meddling with creating hybrids as being responsible for Minotaurs, although thereotically leaving the door open for Yakfolk but seems extremely unlikely that they'd be created in enough numbers to have been able to have managed to form multiple groups of travellers that managed to reproduce enough to avoid extinction for 1800 years.

Given the mention in the monster entry for Yakfolk talking about enclaves being used to raise Yakfolk children as their parents have no interest and that most races view them as evil boogy-men, the dwarves of Adbar merely being suspicious of the Yakfolk in that small village after the Yakfolk endured centuries worth of dwarven attempts to get into the abandoned giant mines at some point, and the very small population and village size after multiple centuries of existing in that area, it seems pretty clear cut that it's merely an enclave set up by the Yakfolk who worship the forgotten god and not the remnant of an ancient splinter group of travellers that headed north and somehow avoided attention from all the other sentient creatures that would've been present or travelling in the area since -500 DR until 1485 DR.

Gary Dallison Posted - 15 Apr 2023 : 07:34:54
Well ostoria fell a long time ago so even thousands of years after the fall of that empire could predate just about anything else in the region except elves.

I'd have to look up the labyrinth in the underdark to see if we have a reason for all the minotaurs but I'm guessing magical creation and so netherese could have created both offshoots and discarded them.

The yakfolk (half men, half shaggy rothe) spread north west and another group south.

The south group splits when a number stumble through a portal and become tools of the forgotten god.
Karthak Posted - 15 Apr 2023 : 02:34:18
Going off the information in Storm King's Thunder, the yakfolk established a village near Citadel Adbar thousands of years after the fall of Ostoria and they had to repel multiple attempts by dwarven clans to raid the mines beneath their village over centuries before the dwarves gave up, so it sounds like they've been there for at most a millenia as of 1485-1493, although likely a lot less than that given their small population size and only having one village in the region. Also given their proximity to Hartsvale and aren't mentioned as being reluctant to work with the Fire Giants that took up residence in the mines below their village, it seems unlikely that they were present prior to the formation of Hartsvale as it's unlikely that the evicted giants would've been particularly kind to any creatures living nearby as they sought new homes.

It doesn't provide any information on how the Yakfolk ended up in that area to begin with, at least as far as I could see.
Gary Dallison Posted - 14 Apr 2023 : 11:02:50
Well I've found multiple things for and against it being yakmen.

First is Ed on twitter wrote about yakmen in a mount something near citadel adbar, so there is a presence in the north that may or may not be historical.

Sunbright travelling to ulgarth and back within the timeframe of the novel is unlikely, but that doesn't preclude the yakmen already being here.

Bedine travelled to anauroch from zakhara so we have a link nearby.

The big problem is time. The yakmen were created by the forgotten god who originated in the ruined kingdoms and was ousted and then established the riparian empire. The timeframe for the ruined kingdoms is unlikely to be long before dalereckoning and so the yikaria did not exist during Netherils time.

My fix is that minotaurs are present in the north at that time and a shaggy haired offshoot of them ended up in zakhara through that gate which the bedine may or may not have used. They became the yikaria.

The offshoot that remained in the iron mountains did not get the possession ability that the yikaria got and they have perhaps log since died out.

Sunbright encountered the faerun yakmen and did not travel to ulgarth
TBeholder Posted - 14 Apr 2023 : 10:50:19
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

That's good. I'll go with my original assumption then that the yakmen were actually minotaurs but the mistranslation from rengarth to dwarvish comes out as cowman.

Originally posted by Gary Dallison

Mortal Consequences (c.-700 DR) By Clayton Emery
shaggy beasts like upright cattle. Horns jutted from the sides of their heads, and from some dangled tiny bells on leather thongs that jingled. These cow-beings possessed the bleached skulls along the trail, then. Their long hands bore blunt, black nails, and all carried curved wooden staves. Surprised by her rush, a yak-man shrank back to aim the end of his staff. Knucklebones gave him no chance. Doubling her fist of brass knuckledusters, she slammed the yak-man hard on the nose. [2]

Minotaurs are just bull-headed humanoids, and IIRC there were no references to spellcasters or using items usually restricted to spellcaster.
The yak-men indeed look like shaggy upright bovines with hands, are very fond of staves (possibly for this reason), all can use magic items (arcane or divine) and have a lot of actual spellcasters (effectively as priest/elemental mage).
As to the area -
Ulgarth is close enough by the sea, and kind of isolated;
Netheril was already at a bad time and is linked via the portal, as we know Bedine came from Zakhara (and then there are asabis), so the yikaria have a feasible way to reach either area.
A third place would have to introduce one more connection... that otherwise was never used... and the yikaria incursion there should not create known wider disturbances.
Gary Dallison Posted - 13 Apr 2023 : 09:26:12
Yes, but the portal is mentioned and seems to be historical so its presence should be accounted for (unless disputed by another source).

The description of the endpoint could equally apply to both.

Us it suits my own needs to link ancient doegan to imaskar for a blood forge origin, so I'm actively looking for connections.
George Krashos Posted - 13 Apr 2023 : 09:22:18
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

That's good. I'll go with my original assumption then that the yakmen were actually minotaurs but the mistranslation from rengarth to dwarvish comes out as cowman.

Although the 2nd to last double diamond novel did mention a portal between the catacombs beneath doegan and netheril, I also think that is a mistake (since Belgin said he was no expert before making the assertion) and it would more likely be imaskar as the fleeing imaskari mages almost certainly went to surrounding lands like ulgarth.

In character lore references from the Double Diamond series don't count for diddly.

-- George Krashos
Gary Dallison Posted - 13 Apr 2023 : 09:20:27
That's good. I'll go with my original assumption then that the yakmen were actually minotaurs but the mistranslation from rengarth to dwarvish comes out as cowman.

Although the 2nd to last double diamond novel did mention a portal between the catacombs beneath doegan and netheril, I also think that is a mistake (since Belgin said he was no expert before making the assertion) and it would more likely be imaskar as the fleeing imaskari mages almost certainly went to surrounding lands like ulgarth.
George Krashos Posted - 13 Apr 2023 : 09:15:17
I very highly doubt that the Iron Mountains referred to in the Netheril novel trilogy are in Ulgarth.

-- George Krashos
Gary Dallison Posted - 10 Apr 2023 : 11:57:18
Hmm, that's an odd one. I'd be more inclined to think that the storm horns were called the iron mountains by the people of Netheril.

Otherwise not only does sunbright have to travel on foot to durpar and back. But the dwarves later follow him and find him in the same amount of time it took sysquemalyn to locate sunbright (which given her power should take less than a year).
TBeholder Posted - 10 Apr 2023 : 11:51:34
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

Mortal Consequences (c.-700 DR)
By Clayton Emery

Iron Mountains
A storm rushing over the Iron Mountains pelted them with snow (Iron Mountains south of Netheril possibly south of the Barren Mountains????) [2]
shaggy beasts like upright cattle. Horns jutted from the sides of their heads, and from some dangled tiny bells on leather thongs that jingled. These cow-beings possessed the bleached skulls along the trail, then. Their long hands bore blunt, black nails, and all carried curved wooden staves. Surprised by her rush, a yak-man shrank back to aim the end of his staff. Knucklebones gave him no chance. Doubling her fist of brass knuckledusters, she slammed the yak-man hard on the nose. [2]
I seek the Sons of Baltar. I have-something to give Drigor. [3]
We own little here in the Iron Mountains, we Sons of Baltar. Scanty food, iron used up, little coal to burn. So, for generations now, our children are our resource. We train our sons and daughters to war, and send them into the world of men to fight as soldiers and bodyguards. Many never return to this, our ancestral home. [3]
Drigor, son of Yasur [3]
We conserve food and fighters because of yak-men. What you saw yesterday was another scout party. The yak-men covet our mountains. They push in from the east, and we are busy killing them. This takes food, and we have barely enough to feed ourselves.[3]
The elk and goats did not climb as high this autumn, and even the high-dwelling chamois have moved to lower meadows to scratch moss. Scouts tell us the lichen and gorse is thin on the highest peaks, and not recovering from their graze. [3]
yak-men press in from the east, outside the empire. I wonder if they too find their land can't support them. [3]
Deep in the Iron Mountains, Drigor and Cholena, his sometimes wife [6]
Ayaz died for nothing? And Ridon and Nodin [6]
"We must defend our homeland," Cholena chided. "The Sons of Baltar have inhabited these mountains for centuries. It's-" "Aye, centuries," Drigor interrupted, "but not forever, not since the first dwarf sprang from a glacier by the breath of Igashum. I've lived here all my life, three centuries, but my father, Yasur, came from the Rampant Mountains, which tall men call Gods' Legion. [6]
Cappi and Pullor and Oredola, young dwarves [6]
Cholena slain by the flint demon. Cholena, who'd given him a son years ago [6]
we once saved you from yak-men in White Owl Pass. [15]

"Iron Mountains" far to the South are Galuil Mountains in Ulgarth.
So, it's in the trilogy, but East of Durpar rather than around Netheril? Those yikaria could just arrive from Zakhara by sea (and Surbar - Dralpur road).
Gary Dallison Posted - 09 Apr 2023 : 21:21:42
Odd that the choice was made to link the ancient Mar catacombs beneath Doegan to Netheril.

I think it was a mistake and should have been Imaskar, given that one of the portals went to Chessenta (which was once part of unther and unther was of course linked to imaskar).

Imaskar is also desertified like the ruins they travelled to through the portal.

When Belgin said it was Netheril, he was translating hieroglyphs, depicting bronze skinned warriors with curved swords and square shields, that could easily describe Imaskari.

More importantly, although Belgin claimed it was Netheril, he also said he was no expert and was half remembering lessons that he long ago squandered.

So in short i reckon the portal beneath Doegan went to Imaskar. Why did a portal in Imaskar link to Undermountain - well Halaster was originally from Imaskar and so may have used it to escape, or may have created a portal with which to replenish his dungeons (ala the beast tamers guild)
Gary Dallison Posted - 09 Apr 2023 : 21:07:13
Easy Betrayals (1374 DR maybe 1371 DR)
By Richard Baker

"Old work, old human work," Rings replied softly. The dwarf ran his gnarled hand along the rotten plaster of the wall. "It's not the same construction as the rest of Aetheric's halls." "Ancient Mar stonework?" "It might be. It looks like the Mar ruins I've seen scattered around the Five Kingdoms." The dwarf tugged on an earring. "This feels like a funeral chamber of some kind." "Great. A crypt," Jacob remarked over his shoulder. [1]
The room beyond was magnificent, flanked by great statues of ancient warriors in long headdresses. A series of false arches carved in basrelief along the walls flanked the room, which was cluttered with mildewed banners, broken urns stained with redolent residue, old bronze weapons green with verdigris, and dozens of small casks and statuaries. In the center of the room stood a long, low pedestal supporting a stone sarcophagus, elaborately carved in the likeness of a handsome young man. Dust lay thick over the entire chamber. [1]
"I've heard it said that doppelgangers are limited in how much they can change their shape. Look for something more or less human-sized [1]
It was the image of an ancient warrior much like the others that stood guard over the sarcophagus, with a broad bare chest, a knee-length kilt, sandals, and a high headdress framing its stern face. Its hands gripped an oblong shield and a curving sword. [1]
the glyphs on the far wall- now an arcane, circular design-flashed with a crackle of energy and a peal of thunder. Where a blank stone wall had stood, a dark portal yawned. Wind howled forth, thick with the scent of dust and strange incense. [1]
Cold beyond cold, darkness seared Belgin's flesh, and then he was through the gate. His bold battle cry faltered in the teeth of a bitter, stinging wind that scoured him with dust and sand. He raised a hand to shield his eyes and blundered forward. Crumbling old stone walls surrounded him, and overhead a brown sky billowed and seethed with the weight of wind-borne dust. No sun pierced the sandy veil, but something in the quality of the light hinted at late afternoon, maybe sunset. Where on Toril are we? he thought. Grimacing, he laughed bitterly. I've said that all my life and never really meant it before. [2]
The ground was broken and rugged, heaps of uneven stone piled at random all around him. The walls seemed to form a large courtyard with rows of broken columns rising from drifts and skeletal fingers clawing up through the hissing, shifting sands. Beyond the old walls he gained glimpses of the dark bulk of neighboring structures, revealed and then hidden by the dust. No, not a courtyard, he decided. It's a great building, long since collapsed. I'm standing on the rubble of the roof. [2]
The vicious coughing fit left him helpless for several minutes, his chest aching abominably. Gasping for breath, Belgin tried to pretend he couldn't feel the rasp in his lungs. "Are you I’ll?" Miltiades asked, studying him closely. "He's from Edenvale," Rings answered for him. "What's that mean?" "It means that I'm dying," Belgin said weakly. "It's the damned bloodforges. Doegan has its fish scales… and lately the black malaise that incapacitated the warriors of the city. In Konigheim, it's a weakness of the will or the mind… everyone knows a Konigheimer who's snapped." "Some say Konigheimers have been known to grow a third eye. I don't know about that, though."
"Edenvale's curse is simple," Belgin continued. "We just die young. That's it. My father died at thirty three, my mother at thirty one. My grandsire, he lived to be forty-one. He was accounted lucky. Everyone pays the price for our kings' toys." [2]
"Tyr has the power to heal-" the paladin began. "Not this," Belgin interrupted. "It's a curse, a magical curse. Believe me, plenty of our priests have tried to undo the bloodforge's effects. I don't know of any who have succeeded." [2]
Belgin - "Thirty four. I guess all the time I spent at sea's been good for my health. I'd probably be dead by now if I'd stayed at home." [2]
The outer buildings seemed more intact than the central temple. Smaller and sturdier, some even retained their roofs. Beyond the ring of buildings there was a large open space and a crumbling wall that seemed to circle the whole set of ruins. Broken and buried in drifting sand, nothing but desolate sand and flat sheets of rock stretched out beyond the walls. After one deliberate circuit, they paused in the lee of the outer wall, considering their next move. "This place isn't a city," Rings observed. "There aren't enough dwellings or private buildings." "A temple complex or holy city, then," Miltiades said. "Deliberately removed from the mundane world, isolated as a retreat for worship and ceremony." "It would be appropriate for a city of the dead," the dwarf added. "The builders interred their kings and nobles in a sacred city far from the common folk. They could hide the tombs anywhere in Faerun with those magical gates." [2]
"The statues in the tomb we found were carved in the mode of ancient Netherese dress," Belgin said, tugging at his ear. "The runes and hieroglyphs marking the portal, they were Netherese as well. And I've seen a few faint traces of more hieroglyphs in walls sheltered from the wind. Besides… we're sitting in the middle of a desert. If these are Netherese ruins, I'd expect we're somewhere in Anauroch." Rings stared at Belgin. "What's a Netherese? And where in the Five Kingdoms is Anauroch?" The sharper shrugged. "I'm no expert, Rings. I'm just guessing. But Netheril was once a great empire ruled by mighty wizards, far to the northwest of the Five Kingdoms… fairly close to the homeland of these gentlemen, in fact," he said, nodding at Miltiades and Jacob. "A long time ago, the Netherese brought some kind of awful magical doom down on their heads, and their kingdom fell, only to be buried by the sand and rock of the desert called Anauroch." "I've traveled Anauroch before," Miltiades said. "I've never seen this particular place, but it feels right. How did you learn of these things, Belgin?" "I was given an unusual education." Belgin spread his hands with a disarming gesture. "I've read a hundred books and learned a thousand tales. But just as my old mentor predicted, I've wasted my learning on a life of iniquity, [2]
At the fringe of his vision he saw them now, brown and withered figures that approached in fluttering tatters of cloth and flesh. They were long dead, of course, silent phantoms with cruel talons and eyes that burned like witch fire. The first mummy reached him, clubbing its knotted fists down at his head. [3]
ancient frescoes that still held a hint of their color, showing cryptic scenes of bronze-skinned people in cotton kilts. Some fought in great battles; others worked in broad fields of grain; a few stood above the others conjuring mighty spells out of the air. [3]
"Aye. More portals," Miltiades agreed. "Where do they all go?" The sharper moved closer to the nearest portal and carefully brushed the dust from its circle of runes. He traced the inscription with one finger, whispering under his breath, then stepped back. "This one goes to Chessenta, I think. Or an old Mulhorese ruin that I've heard of that lies in that land." He moved over to the next one, scrutinizing it carefully. "Here's one that goes to a place called Myth Drannor. [3]
Belgin straightened and drew back his shoulders, a scowl settling over his round face. "What do you care?" he said sharply. "I'm exactly what you see-a pirate, a cutthroat, a dandy and a sharp. I take from those too weak or too stupid to defend themselves. I've stolen from kings and from beggars. I've killed good men and bad. I've reneged on my bargains, lied to those who trusted me, turned my back on those in need. Sometimes I've dared a deed worthy of a song, and more often I've murdered a song before it was born. That's who I am, paladin. If you don't like it, keep your judgments to yourself." Miltiades laughed quietly. "Fine. So how much do you know of magic?" "Only a smattering. I've knowledge of about a dozen spells, none suitable for battling a creature such as Eidola. Most of my magic is in illusion and charms." "How did a pirate come to learn the wizard's art?" Belgin straightened, a grimace of pain flitting across his face. "You'd be surprised at how far a little illusion magic goes at the card table, or at what a swindler can do with a simple charm." How's that for irony? he thought. I can't even take a shill without cheating somehow. He laughed again, his strength returning. "Besides, I wasn't always a pirate. I learned what I know years before I came aboard the Kissing Shark." Suddenly the pirate straightened, looking back toward the passage they'd descended. Something dragged softly on the stone steps above. [3]
Green-glowing eyes looked up at them as something clad in ancient bronze climbed toward them, a long glaive of emerald fire burning in its yellowed hands. More eyes glinted in the darkness beneath it. [3]
Jarin has served me well on many occasions. His knowledge of sorcery is impressive for one so young. Hell have the knowledge I seek. Before I crafted Eidola, Jarin was a persona I used quite often. It takes only a moment of concentration to shape the familiar features, the hawklike gaze, the handsome face. My mind takes the shape of his, and knowledge floods into my brain. I've forgotten how to disarm a swordsman with a twist of my wrist, I've forgotten how to mend damaged mail and how to kill with blows of my bare human fists-but I remember now the Art, and a dozen languages long forgotten, and the sensation of Mystra's weave gliding beneath the touch of my fingers and the force of my will. It might be the next best thing to my true self. A lightly built elf male [3,4]
The Hall of Swords. A portal leading to the heart of Undermountain! Who could have guessed that even in the depths of the Mad Mage's domain a Netherese lord sleeps? It's amazing that Faerun holds together, considering how it's been riddled with gates and conduits, portals and doorways from a dozen lost peoples. [3]
Thy hour is done, mortals. The creature's whisper rasped inside Belgin's mind like the husk of a dead insect. No man may walk the streets of Ularith and live to tell the tale. "Stand aside, ancient one," said Miltiades firmly. "Our mission here does not aggrieve the dead of Ularith. We seek a fugitive who has fled to this place, and we shall leave the instant we have captured or slain her. Do not hinder us in our mission." [4]
This is my second life, Belgin. I first lived in the service of Tyr more than six hundred years ago, in the days when Phlan was young. I met my death then, in battle against the enemies of my god. But Tyr saw fit to call me back to his service as an undead warrior. Three times I rose from my crypt to quest for Tyr, only to return to my sleep when my mission was accomplished. But at the end of my last quest, Tyr rewarded my service by restoring me to life again. I have lived now five years since that day." Belgin shuddered despite himself. "You're six hundred years old?" "Six hundred and fifty five, I suppose. But hundreds of those years passed unknown to me as I slept in death, awaiting Tyr's next call." [4]
Miltiades gaped in amazement. "Halaster the Mad? This can't be!" "It actually translates as 'The Domain of Haalvar the Mad,' [4]

"Have you ever heard of the Unseen?" "Yes," the mage grated angrily. "Do you know where they can be found?" "No." "Feel free to respond in something besides monosyllables," Belgin said wryly. "Do you know of any way we could find them?" "Yes." Miltiades snorted. "So how can we find them? What's the best way?" Struggling to resist, the mage winced and tried to mumble. The lasso of truth dragged her words forth. "There is an alehouse called the Broken Pike, several hundred yards up the street. In the back room, a man named Marks buys and sells stolen baubles. He only pretends to be a fence, though; in truth he is a doppelganger who keeps his ear to the corsairs' tales. I know that he reports to others. Apply this damned lasso to him, and hell have to lead you to the Unseen." "How do you know this?" Belgin asked suspiciously. The woman glared at him. "I've used my magic on their behalf from time to time. Marks is the man I dealt with, and he paid me well." [5]
"The girdle was a magical bond that locked Eidola into her human shape and personality. As long as she wore it, she could work no evil. If she wears it no longer, there's no telling where she could go or what she could do." She frowned, thinking. "You'd better tell me what happened after you arrived in Doegan." "The Blackstaff and I have known of Eidola's true nature for several months now," she said, glaring at Belgin over the shining blade of the rapier. "We keep a close eye on anyone who gets close to Piergeiron, and we spotted her as soon as she made her move against the Open Lord." "Why didn't you stop her then?" Miltiades demanded. "What kind of game were you playing with your father's life, girl?" "We didn't strike at her because she possesses a hold of some kind on my father's mind, perhaps even his very soul. We feared that slaying her would kill the Open Lord, too. And if she does hold his soul in her hands, my father would not only be dead but destroyed utterly. We couldn't take the chance." A hint of uncertainty flickered across her proud, confident features. "Khelben and I decided that we had to render Eidola harmless if we couldn't move against her openly. The Blackstaff crafted a girdle of righteousness to bind Eidola. It prevented her from working harm against the Open Lord, or anyone else for that matter, and held her in the shape she currently wore. She couldn't have removed it herself." "I don't know how she did it, but I think that Eidola trapped some portion of his soul within the prison of a soul gem," Aleena answered. "It shouldn't be possible. These devices wrest the victim's soul from his body altogether, destroying him utterly. But Khelben and I can think of no other enchantment that might allow Eidola to hold my father's life in her hands." She gently reached up to push Belgin's rapier from her neck. "Miltiades, every minute we waste places my father in greater danger. Please, we have to catch her quickly." [5]
The paladin turned his attention from Aleena to Belgin, the same measuring gaze in his eyes. He held up a silver chain, with a pendant in the shape of a harp suspended from it. "We found this beneath your shirt as we worked to save your life. What business do the Harpers have here, Belgin?" Belgin closed his eyes and sighed. "Hundreds of years ago, when the Ffolk first came to the lands that would become the Five Kingdoms, there was a bard named Dereth Caelwindar among them. He was one who wore the Harp in the Moonshaes, and he followed the Ffolk to the Utter East and settled in Edenvale. Learning that he was thousands of miles from his brothers and sisters, he decided to continue the tradition as best he could. When he felt his years gaining on him, he selected a young lass to learn the ways of the Harp. Generation after generation, each Harper passed his lore and knowledge to an apprentice, keeping the tradition alive." "Amazing," breathed Aleena. "Who could have known?" "Almost twenty years ago, Lady Jaele Serwid chose me to carry on in her footsteps," Belgin continued. He attempted a wry smile. "I fear that I was not much of student. I was certain I had better things to do than carry a torch for a secret brotherhood centuries dead, and I was always quicker to look out for myself than for others around me. I might carry the Harp, Miltiades, but I've never been a Harper." [5]
Rings smiled and tugged at a silver band that pierced his eyebrow. "I got better, as they say. Years ago I found this enchanted ring in a mage's tower. It takes time, but the dweomer repairs any injury that doesn't kill me instantly. I never needed it as badly as I did a few hours ago, that's for certain." [5]
"You know, Miltiades, Jacob must have been a doppelganger all along. He turned on Rings before we returned to Skullport, so he must have been replaced before we set off in pursuit of Eidola." The paladin crouched by the imposter's body. In death, he still resembled the blond-haired fighter he'd pretended to be; only the great blade of bone that grew from his forearm, a clever mimicry of a sword, marked him as a shapeshifter. "They must have overcome him the first time we were here," he said quietly. "I never suspected. How did he hide his evil from me? That should be impossible." "Greater doppelgangers can do that," Aleena said quietly. "We had plenty of time to study Eidola. When she wore the Eidola's shape, she was Eidola Boraskyr. In her mind, in her thoughts, she was a perfect mimicry. If the doppelganger that replaced Jacob was one of her kind, he could defeat virtually any test that might reveal his true nature." [5]
I'm going to need a scorecard soon to keep track of the roster changes, Belgin thought absently as they followed Marks through the streets of Skullport. First there were the seven of us, the Sharkers. Then Belmer, who was actually Entreri, killed Kurthe. Brindra perished, fighting the fiends. Anvil was struck down by the doppelganger masquerading as Jacob-even though we didn't know that at the time. That pup Noph joined us, and we lost him beneath the mage-king's palace. Rings and I followed Miltiades and Jacob after Eidola… then we lost Rings and Jacob in the city… then Jacob found us, and left us again, as we found Aleena… and now, finally, Jacob is dead and Rings is here again. He rubbed his eyes, realizing suddenly that he couldn't remember the last time he had slept. [5]
The small fence scowled angrily. "We're here. You want that warehouse." At Belgin's doubtful expression, Marks sighed and went on. "We don't have a headquarters or a fortress, you idiots. We don't need much more than a few safehouses and meeting places. You'll want the side door; the front door leads to nothing but an empty storage room." The four interlopers withdrew to the shadows of a dismal alley across the street from the ramshackle structure Marks had indicated. It seemed innocuous enough, one more disused old building in a town full of them. Miltiades frowned, thinking. "Anything else we should expect?"
"There's a second structure inside the first. In the space between the buildings there are two leucrotta, unchained to roam the building. They'll attack any who don't respond with the correct password. The inner door is marked by a very dangerous glyph, and the room beyond is guarded, usually by four or five doppelgangers in human guise." Marks winced and muttered, trying to resist the rope's compulsion, but he continued despite his efforts. "If there's anyone important here, expect more guards." "Tell us the password and the name of the glyph," Aleena said. " 'Derzhim haalva,'" Marks replied. "The glyph is cirr." [5]
"A soul gem," Aleena gasped. "I thought as much!" "Good," sneered Eidola. "Then you know that if I shatter it, that portion of your father's soul that I've trapped within is destroyed forever. Take another step, Miltiades, and I smash this thing. You'll bring me in to face your justice, but Piergeiron Paladinson will be condemned beyond any hope of resurrection. Do you understand me?" Quick as thought, Belgin flipped a knife from his sleeve and threw it underhanded. The silver blade turned once before striking Eidola in her midriff. It was a small wound to the doppelganger, nothing more than a pinprick, but Eidola recoiled and gasped in pain, losing her spell. "No!" she shrieked. In her hand, the soul gem blazed silently to an unbearable splendor. In one brilliant flash of supernal radiance, it seared the vision from Belgin's eyes and set him to blinking furiously. In his ears, Eidola's shriek of rage grew great and dark as a storm, surrounding him in spite and anger-and then it was gone. When he could see again, Eidola stood still as a stone, her face frozen in a cold and fierce rage. She still held the soul gem clenched in her fist, but all color had been bleached from her body, leaving her white and pure as marble. Between her alabaster fingers, the diamond glittered coldly. "Aleena? What happened?" whispered Miltiades. Shaken, the Waterdhavian mage approached and peered into Eidola's contorted features. "I believe she trapped herself inside the gem," she said slowly. "I-I have seen this before. It's a devious device, and it can strike any who stand near when its power is invoked." "Is she dead?" asked Rings. "If only it were that simple," Aleena replied. Carefully, she reached out to open Eidola's hand and remove the stone, but the doppelganger's fingers refused to yield. "The soul gem destroys, yes, but in some way it also preserves what it takes in its crystalline depths. Eidola is somewhere within." [6]
Gary Dallison Posted - 07 Apr 2023 : 20:25:42
Uneasy Alliances (1374 DR, maybe 1371 DR)
By David Cook and Peter Archer

When Aetheric first began to rule, he was a man. But after a few years, he withdrew into the palace and no one saw him anymore. Fiends attacked the kingdom, and Aetheric's armies fought them off. But still nobody saw him. Father said the emperor had gone mad from using the bloodforge. But when I got older, I heard other tales that he was deformed." Her eyes widened in horror. "I never dreamed he'd become what we saw behind that wall." [2]
Althgar, young guard in the palace of Doegan. Set to guard the anteroom of the chamber of Aetheric [2]
The Bloodforge. In form, it was a round stone, no more than a foot in diameter. The colors that came from within it mirrored the entire spectrum, a luminous display that shone brightly but without warmth. Round the altar were carved bas-reliefs. Noph recognized with a shock the same squidlike figure he'd seen in the fountain where he first met the mercenaries, a figure he now knew to be the mage-king. [3]
"It's called the bloodforge. It needs blood. It feeds on blood." There was a hiss as the assassin's blood, squeezed from his slashed hand, dropped onto the stone's surface. To Noph's eyes, aching from the glow, the blood seemed to spread across the entire surface of the forge, shimmering, separating, and recombining in a series of ever more complex patterns. The humming that filled the cavern increased in volume, and from the forge stepped a man. Yet only half a man. His limbs were twisted and hideously distorted, his neck bent as if broken. One leg was shorter than the other, one arm a tiny withered appendage, while the other ended in a massive knotted fist. [3]
"In the name of the temple of Tyr, I claim the bloodforge. Stand aside." "Now, wait just a minute…" began Sharessa. At her side, Kern suddenly lifted his warhammer. "There is no temple of Holy Tyr in this land," he said sternly. "You must be false worshipers to claim his name." The hooded figure hesitated, then spoke. "We are the true temple of Tyr. The bloodforge is ours by right, with the fall of the despicable Aetheric, who suppressed our temple. We claim it, and we shall take it by force if necessary." [3]
In the sudden blaze of light, Noph could see beneath the cowls of the cultists. He could see their tattooed faces, their slavering mouths, their bloodshot eyes, desperate for a new sacrifice to their false god. [3]
A bolt of pure light surged from the stone, wrapping around Artemis's arm. His mouth opened as if to command the energy, then turned into a wordless scream of agony. The flesh of his arm seemed to melt and dissolve. He pulled back from the forge and stared at white bones that still, horrifyingly, flexed and scraped in a parody of human action. Entreri stared at the arm for a moment, as if his brain refused the evidence of his eyes. Then his body went limp, and he collapsed by the forge in a heap. From within the forge came a deep-throated roar. A man emerged-or seemingly a man, though larger than any man could possibly be. Noph started back from the figure in horror. Like Artemis's first creation, the forge-made man was only half finished. Veins and blood vessels twisted together with muscle uncloaked by flesh. Bones appeared in some places but were hidden in others. The figure screamed, a high-pitched yell of pain and horror, then lunged forward at one of the hooded figures and bore it to the floor. His massive hands, flesh and muscle shredding from them, locked around the false worshiper's throat. The forge's unholy light continued to blaze and flare. More creatures emerged, horrid mockeries of men and animals, their bodies twisted and crushed. Some could barely move, but crawled forward on knees or stumps of legs not fully grown. One, a mere head and torso, wriggled helplessly backward and fell into the lake with a splash. Another, a skeleton from the waist up but with the lower limbs of a man, seized a worshiper and bit cleanly through his neck before collapsing in a shapeless heap of bones. The cultists hacked and slashed at the deformed warriors, shouting encouragement to each other. [3]
"Can't you fix… that?" Noph asked the fighter, gesturing to Entreri's arm. Trandon shook his head. "There's something about it that defeats me. My magic won't take. It's part of him-what the forge has made of him." He looked at Entreri with something akin to pity and put a hand on his shoulder. "I'm afraid that's going to be permanent." [4]
Trandon drummed his fingers for a moment in thought. His staff, which he'd evidently clutched when he fell, lay beside him. "All right," he sighed. "I was sent on this expedition by the Council of War Wizards of Cormyr." Trandon rubbed his chin in evident embarrassment. "To answer your second question first, I don't work for the War Wizards; I'm a member of the Council of War Wizards and have been for a number of years. Given the circumstances of Lady Eidola's kidnapping, that wasn't information I was anxious to spread about. I was at Piergeiron's wedding purely as a social courtesy, but as soon as his bride was stolen, I contacted other members of the council, and they agreed I should join the expedition to find her. "The council became concerned when Khelben determined that the kidnappers came from the Utter East and that a bloodforge was somehow involved. We had heard of these artifacts and their tremendous power, though no one on the council had ever seen one. Vangerdahast didn't want someone wielding that kind of power about Faerun without anyone keeping track of it." He paused and glared at Artemis, who looked back coolly without speaking. [4]
"The city drains," said Garkim in a low voice. "They reach into every part of Eldrinpar. "The Mar. In Eldrinpar, it is the Ffolk who live near the temples and palaces, and the Mar who remain apart from power and faith. To escape the scrutiny of the Ffolk, the Mar long ago learned to use the drains. Like maggots, they burrow beneath the city, and the Ffolk are none the wiser." [5]
if the followers of the Fallen Temple install the bloodforge." "They wish to summon Ysdar, a being of great power who comes from beyond this plane of existence. Some say he is no more than a name, a shadow to frighten children. But I believe he is real and is plotting to conquer all the Five Kingdoms." "And he can do that if he gets a bloodforge?" Noph asked. "According to most accounts of him, Ysdar already has a bloodforge. But a second would give him decisive power to command armies far greater than any that other kingdoms might bring against him. So we stand upon the sword's edge. The next few hours may decide whether my world stands or falls." Garkim fell silent and strode on. [5]
The smell of the sea grew stronger in Noph's nostrils. He realized they must be drawing near the dock area. All at once, the party reached the end of the narrow street they had been traversing and beheld before them the Great Sea and, glimmering in the sun, a temple. Before them was a broad plaza, along which were drawn several fishing boats. From the dock, a narrow causeway led across the water, perhaps fifty yards, to a building, constructed of black basalt, that sat amid the waves like a brooding spider. Garkim gestured toward it. "The Temple of Umberlee." [5]
Garkim hastily drew a robe over his head. "It must be the Rite of Investiture. We cannot allow this to happen!" He turned to the paladin. "Do you not see the terrible danger? Imagine those monsters of the Fallen Temple-the temple of your god Tyr-with the power of the bloodforge at their command! [5]
A figure stepped forward, red-robed, a silver circlet round his neck. From it dangled a medallion inscribed with designs that Noph could not clearly make out. The priest lifted his hands and face in appeal. "#1054; Mighty Ysdar, hear this day our prayer. Feel the power of our sacrifice. Join with us as we feast." In a circle of motion, he whirled, drawing a long, curved, cruel knife from beneath his robes. He slashed in one quick motion, lengthwise down the body of the victim, who gave a ringing scream of agony. The worshipers closest to the altar rushed forward, their bodies hiding the victim, whose screams grew fainter and finally died away. In a few moments, the crowd at the altar had cleared. The victim's body was no more than a shredded mass of flesh and bone. Some in the crowd were still wiping their mouths. [5]
"It's too heavy," Noph yelled to Kern above the din. "We can't lift it." The forge glowed malevolently, and Noph realized something with a shock. "It doesn't want us to lift it. It knows what it wants." [5]
The mage-king, Aetheric III. Again Sharessa heard the voice she'd heard before in the palace chambers when they were first attempting to steal the bloodforge. That seemed a lifetime ago. Then the voice had been beautiful, like a great organ playing on a thousand pipes. Now the voice had lost none of its timbre. It still resounded through the great hall of the Temple of Umberlee, and Shar could hear echoes of it floating across the water from the ruined city. But now the words it spoke were gibberish, the ravings of a mind released from sanity. With growing horror, she realized that the words she heard were not only in her ears but also in her mind, that Aetheric no longer distinguished between speech and telepathy. And as he spoke, she felt the madness and terror of that vast mind. We rise from the deep… We are the god of the deep and of the overworld… Blood is power; power is life; the bloodforge is life… Our beloved Doegan… why are you doing this?… Why are you doing this? There was a burst of insane laughter. Aetheric swung a great tentacled arm inside the temple. Artemis and Sharessa rolled one way, Kern and Trandon the other, the latter pulling with him the groggy Noph. The voice rose to a scream. We will have the forge… forged in blood, the blood of the people. We are the people; they serve us with their blood. .. the blood of the gods… Doegan, behold your god! [6]
Seravin Posted - 31 Mar 2023 : 23:20:15
Yeah when I asked Elaine about why they let Kymil live despite it being regicide and against the Code the Harpers, her response was "they made a mistake". Which if your plot hinges on dozens of elven royalty and Harper leaders making a mistake and acting out of character/stupid then maybe try again. I don't know. I also had major problems with Elfshadow's metaplot that Arilyn would somehow be found guilty unless she kept Kymil alive, that contrivance didn't work for me (hello detect lie spells hello a million other reasons why that makes no sense). I guess I love Elaine's work and world building but I don't love the plot holes.

On the history side of Evermeet, I think so much has been retconned you're stuck with a multiverse/timelines approach!
Gary Dallison Posted - 29 Mar 2023 : 09:33:52
I finished Evermeet, but i fear if i try and post all the accumulated lore from the book it might bring down the forum.

Lots of problems between history as we knew it of the realms then and history as we know it now.

My personal fix is an original and a branch timeline, wherein the events in the branch timeline are in a slightly different order due to the Sundering stretching back in time and therefore preventing certain things from happening as they did in the original timeline.
TBeholder Posted - 21 Mar 2023 : 16:23:16
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

I'm not sure if the speech is referring to Netheril

I mean, they were the only ones eligible for falling "from the heavens". Assuming he meant someone on Prime, rather than the Hardheads.
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

It does not surprise me at all that Rich Baker was responsible for causing problems with Realmslore.

Yup. The City of Ravens, The Last Mythal...
One of the best designers TSR ever had, but not consistently better at naming things than Leonard of Quirm, and allowing him to touch continuity proved even worse.

Originally posted by Seravin

Was it spelljamming ships with extra-planar non-realms elves that invaded by sea? In my head it was just nonsense that a huge armada could be formed on the Sword Coast and not one Harper or Chosen or friend of Evermeet/Elves knew anything about it but I suppose if this all happened outside of Realmspace and the ships all flew in from outerspace or however spelljamming works that makes a lot more sense to me.

Nobody would look twice. It's what, the end of Second Unhuman War, or aftermath? And near Evermeet, which acts as EIN supply base, among the other things. A bunch of Elven ships is not a major anomaly. "They probably are supposed to be there." The Elves don't publish their flight plans for everyone to see, after all.
Of course, for the same reasons their participation looks like random stupidity in the first place. Any spelljamming elves nearby (including those not affiliated with EIN) at this point must have more important things to care about than local politics of some elven realm in another sphere. Also, the approach itself would be unreliable at best. In that there's a good chance the local EIN fleet can notice and notify the locals even if not suspicious. At which point Evermeet officials most likely will be suspicious about the timing and try to check.
However, it's not too anomalous either. The elves in general tend to be quite practical in everyday life, but in other affairs often exhibit excess of theatrics, delusions and either suicidal recklessness or paralysing risk aversion. Likewise, they can be very competent in squad- to company- scale organization and tactics, but above that moronic behaviour is not rare. Battle of the Gods Theater is a great example: the only sensible explanation is that those elves had not as much an operationally sensible and controlled engagement, as an oversized tantrum.
And this conspiracy did not exactly collect all the best and brightest.
Still doesn't erase the fact that neither the Elves nor the Harpers would have let Kymil live (after murdering 20+ Harpers and committing Regicide) and I'm sorry but I will never think otherwise.

Consider the Elven mentality.
They are more into prolonged forms of vengeance, in some extreme cases variations of burying their enemies alive. After all, if you just behead some jackass, it's over, and what happens then? He forgets everything and lives happily ever after in Arvandor (or somewhere else if he's an apostate)? That's quite unsatisfying, you see. Add some sanctimony on top to taste (or lack thereof).
Gary Dallison Posted - 21 Mar 2023 : 14:31:00
I tend to take the gandalf approach to executions. Especially when an organisation is supposed to be "good".

And if the modern world has taught us anything, it is that people in charge are stupid, lazy, and corrupt.

I see no reason why some people couldnt have surreptitiously bribed certain individuals to mitigate his sentence to eternal imprisonment based upon his knowledge of huge caches of ancient elven items and lore. That would have been enough to tempt even the most self righteous of politicians.

Given that resurrection is not necessarily the end of an individual either, there seems very little reason to execute someone to permanently eliminate them because it is not permanent and you still lose control over their fate regardless.

But i dont do resurrection in my settings, it messes everything up. Dead is dead. The Princess Bride thankfully allows me to categorise people as "mostly dead" which is not the same as Dead.
Seravin Posted - 20 Mar 2023 : 22:58:24
Was it spelljamming ships with extra-planar non-realms elves that invaded by sea? In my head it was just nonsense that a huge armada could be formed on the Sword Coast and not one Harper or Chosen or friend of Evermeet/Elves knew anything about it but I suppose if this all happened outside of Realmspace and the ships all flew in from outerspace or however spelljamming works that makes a lot more sense to me. And it makes sense a silver dragon on patrol would be the first to spot the threat I guess. I don't really like Spelljamming as a concept though it doesn't fit with my view of the Realms (nor Ed's Realms I am certain).

Still doesn't erase the fact that neither the Elves nor the Harpers would have let Kymil live (after murdering 20+ Harpers and committing Regicide) and I'm sorry but I will never think otherwise.

Kymil should have been executed after being found guilty of those heinous murders/crimes, it is written that way in the Code of the Harpers sourcebook (look what the Harpers did to Finder and he didn't even directly kill anyone! Nevermind what they tried to do to Mari when she handed in her harper pin) -- and no kingdom would allow Regicide to go without an example of capital punishment. I mean, Arilyn killed several gold elves just to get to Kymil without missing a beat but of course we had contrivance needed to stop her killing him because um... apparently Detect Lie spells or Speak with Dead spells don't exist in Harper tribunals. Sigh.

All of which would have been easily solved by Harpers/Elven court executing Kymil and Lolth resurrecting him to be her Chosen vessel to get revenge on the Selderine / Evermeet. Just no idea why it didn't happen that way.

And I really feel strongly that we should have some in-novel explanation of why the Selderine didn't intervene with the events. Whatever their reason, we the readers shouldn't be making it up.
Wooly Rupert Posted - 20 Mar 2023 : 18:59:52
Originally posted by George Krashos

Elaine has said more than a few times that the early parts of the book are relayed through tales from Danilo Thann in unreliable narrator mode. It all would have made more sense if Rich Baker had not insisted on dating the First Sundering at -17600 DR despite Eric and I begging him to go with -24,000 DR. That's why Eric had to later go with the "backwards and forward in time" thing. C'est la Realms.

-- George Krashos

It does not surprise me at all that Rich Baker was responsible for causing problems with Realmslore.
Gary Dallison Posted - 20 Mar 2023 : 10:15:48
Yeah, the wonder woman parallels of that item were blindingly obvious and I'm not even sure where he got the lasso from, it just sort of appeared.

I'm not sure if the speech is referring to Netheril, since Tyrs modern day church is not formed until after netherils fall. There were however Tyr precursors in and around jhaamdath territory prior to that which could refer to netheril.

Might be something worth looking at though.
TBeholder Posted - 20 Mar 2023 : 09:45:40
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

Noph has a golden lasso, it unerringly lassos whatever he wants and compels them to tell the truth [1,2]

Oh dear.
'And my hammer shall smite the nations of darkness and grind them into bitter meal.'" " 'And I shall cast them down from on high, as the blacksmith casts down the burrs of iron that cling to his new-forged hammer. They shall fall from the heavens on this, my day,

So... Netheril?
Gary Dallison Posted - 20 Mar 2023 : 07:50:38
I vaguely recall it was Kymils escape with divine assistance that you weren't happy with.

After my most recent revaluation of divinity and the rules surrounding it and final acceptance I am fine with the modern day events as they have played out thus far.

Lolth and others assisting the escape of Kymil is within the rules of the divine for many reasons and does not breach the balance.

Firstly, kymil was not on toril so lolth is free to do what she wants.

Secondly, kymil is not a follower of any other god so she can do what she wants with him.

Thirdly you could argue that kymil has become so evil and duplicitous and anti elf that he is in danger of aligning his goals so closely with lolths that he could be considered a follower in spirit.

And lastly gods can ignore the balance and interfere in mortal affairs and worshippers of other gods, but they do so infrequently and in small ways or indirectly so as not to get noticed. Because kymil was favoured by no one and not even on toril, lolth must have felt safe enough to act without breaking the Balance.

When it comes to the army and stuff. Lolth provided a ship of spell jamming elves, but if they were not travelled to toril and damaged by lolth herself then it is fair game. Similarly if kymil found gates to other worlds to get an army then it's fair game.

Gods are allowed to act through intermediaries and provide aid indirectly as much as they want, there is always the chance of failure and counter activities from intermediaries of other gods.

I suspect the Seldarine discovered lolths hand in kymil and so set about foiling much of lolths plans in the future. It might explain why drizzt has such plot armour, why he keeps finding just the right super items to save the day, why his companions get feelings that he is in danger and need his help.

Lolths actions, while they did not break the rules explicitly could be seen as bad form and so the seldarine engage in the same against her.
Seravin Posted - 19 Mar 2023 : 23:29:00
Hmm I thought the history stuff in Evermeet was quite enjoyable and well done - but again I wasn't viewing it with your lens for consistency with other sources.

It's the present day stuff that drove me insane with contrivance and plotholes, and why I don't ever want to read it again.

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