| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Paec_djinn |
Posted - 14 Jul 2005 : 16:42:45
I am interested in places which are warring within the Realms recently (as of 1370 DR and beyond). I do not possess sourcebooks and my only sources are from the internet and novels so I would appreciate any kind help.
I also would appreciate it if any of you could stay away from spoilers to The Two Swords, the final two WotSQ books, and Farthest Reach. Thanks.
[SPOILERS AHEAD]
So far I know of:
1. Obould Many Arrows v.s Mithral Hall dwarves.
Mithril Hall (1370- DR)
Important Battles:
-Battle at Shallows
-Battle at and before Keeper's Dale
Conclusion: [As of the Lone Drow]After the battle before Keeper's Dale, the dwarves are pushed into Mithral Hall.
[Please do not spoil me on what will happen in The Two Swords]
2. Cult of the Dragon v.s Impiltur and Damara.
Impiltur (1373) Border of Vaasa and Damara (1373-)
Important Battles:
-Battle near Lyrabar (with Taegan. I've forgotten the exact location)
-Siege of the Monastery of the Yellow Rose
Conclusion: [As of pg. 200 The Rite]The Cult of the Dragon stronghold west of Lyrabar is defeated and Sammaster moves to Damara where he attacks the Monastery of the Yellow Rose.
3. House Dlardrageth v.s Silver Marches and Elves of High Forest and Evereska.
High Forest and Evereska(1374) Myth Drannor (1374-)
Important Battles:
-Battle of the Lonely Moors.
Conclusion: [As of Forsaken House]House Dlardrageth is defeated at the Battle of the Lonely Moors. Sarya orders a relocation to Myth Drannor
[Please do not spoil me on what will happen in Farthest Reach]
4. Menzoberranzan/Ched Nassad v.s Jaezred Chaulssin.
Menzoberranzan (Date unknown) Ched Nassad (date unknown)
Important Battles:
-Slave Uprising in Menzoberranzan
-Duergar and Lesser Houses in Ched Nassad
-Duergar and Kaanyr Vhok's Attack on Menzoberranzan
Conclusion: [As of Extinction]The Duergar and Kaanyr Vhok's army is stalled from conquering Menzoberranzan. The battle still rages on although Nimor Imphraezl has been trapped in the Shadow Plane.
[Please do not spoil me on what will happen in Annihilation and Ressurection]
5. Phaerimm v.s Elves of Evereska v.s Shade Enclave
Evereska(1371-1372) Cormyr (1372)
Important Battles:
-Phaerimm siege of Evereska
-Shade attack on Tilverton
Conclusion: Shade Enclave returns above Anauroch, Tilverton is destroyed, and the phaerimm are defeated- their numbers greatly reduced.
6. Ghazneths, Nalavarauthatoryl and Minions v.s Kingdom of Cormyr
Cormyr (137? DR)
[I haven't read Death of the Dragon and I don't think I'll intend to do so, I wouldn't mind if anyone spoils me on details of this. Like the factions involved and such]
7. War in Chondath which is slowly erupting
Chondath (137? DR)
[I haven't read the Scions trilogy and I don't think I'll intend to do so, I wouldn't mind if anyone spoils me on details of this. Like the factions involved and such]
8. War in Threat from the Sea trilogy
Sea of Fallen Stars (137?)
[I haven't read the Threat from the Sea trilogy and I don't think I'll intend to do so, I wouldn't mind if anyone spoils me on details of this. Like the factions involved and such]
Important Battles:
Battle at Myth Nantar.
9. Ogre Mages vs. Temple of Cyric
Southern Amn (1370 DR)
[I would require more details on this]
10. Manshoon Clones v.s Manshoon Clones (The Manshoon Wars)
Faerun (1370 DR)
[I would require more details on this]
12. Reclamation Wars
Tethyr (13??-1369 DR)
[I would require more details on this]
13. Sembia & Hillsfar against Elves of Tangled Trees
Tangled Trees (1372 DR)
Conclusion: The war never actually got started though there were a few ambushes along the Rauthavyr Road. Larajin and her twin managed to convince both sides to stop the war.
|
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 30 Nov 2020 : 22:12:24
Learned Scribe PattPlays,
quote:
I'll top off my research with that edition of Volo's huide, thank you.
Great idea. A fantastic accessory to go through. All Realms awesomeness there. :)
quote:
As for the detailed breakdown, thank you! Liches and demi-liches are awe inspiring in their durability in both the mundane and the narrative. Even when you have someone using every contextual tool in their arsenal to set one of these monsters into a calm environment there are still too many reasons to continue being an active force of horror and pain.
No sweat. Happy to oblige! :) Yeah, liches and demi-liches are crazy powerful. They are often used in a block for a fight, when really, an enormous deal of stuff should be happening well before they run across PC's, due to their powerful reach being as learned as they are.
Best regards,
|
| PattPlays |
Posted - 30 Nov 2020 : 07:26:42
quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2
Master Zeromaru X,
You can find information about the Living Gem War in Empires of the Shining Sea, on pages 38, 39 & 45. You can also find a bit about it in Volo's Guide to All Things Magical, p.110-11.
Best regards,
I'll top off my research with that edition of Volo's huide, thank you.
As for the detailed breakdown, thank you! Liches and demi-liches are awe inspiring in their durability in both the mundane and the narrative. Even when you have someone using every contextual tool in their arsenal to set one of these monsters into a calm environment there are still too many reasons to continue being an active force of horror and pain. |
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 30 Nov 2020 : 06:57:15
Master Zeromaru X,
You can find information about the Living Gem War in Empires of the Shining Sea, on pages 38, 39 & 45. You can also find a bit about it in Volo's Guide to All Things Magical, p.110-11.
Best regards,
|
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 30 Nov 2020 : 05:39:42
Learned Scribe PattPlays,
quote:
I know dude but wizards all across Toril had telepathic heart attacks and all sorts pf nonsense, often losing access to magic fpr their entire lives beyond even the spellplaghe. And the soul-swap left Zallanora as a demi-lich with an undefined level of unholy power. We haven't seen elf-Shoon once since he freaky-friday'd off into obscurity, unless someone else has some hidden lore.
Interestingly enough, here is Steven Schend talking about Shoon VII since the Spellplague, and what he likely would have done if the Spellplague had not hit:
quote:
Posted - 17 Apr 2012 : 19:50:43
Unofficial musings (and solely my own):
He's probably no longer on Faerun if A)you take the 4th Ed canon (Returned Abeir et al) into account with B) my long-term plans (which may or may not have ever gone into play) for the character. I'd planned to ship him off to the Maztican continent to slowly but surely conquer without as much interference from gods or mortals. As that chunk of land is elsewhere, that'd be where I'd be writing Shoon/Zallanora stuff were it up to me. Even so, any such plans of his/hers would only have become even mildly noticeable in current FR canon/timelines because he can afford to take the long view and only move/manipulate a pawn or two every few years and look at making major (for him and his covert plans) moves every fifty to 75 years or so--and even then these would not be obvious moves to anyone who doesn't operate in centuries of planning/thinking. As always, your plans and your mileage and usage may vary; (s)he is one of the better tools I left lying in the sandbox for GMs with which to play. Strangely, not nearly as many people have twigged to just how much potential for story (and chaos and blood and thunder and everything in between) lies in the ruins of Shoonach; was I too circumspect with the story nuggets and plot possibilities there, or what? Steven sowing a few seeds to perhaps turn over some old idea-compost that's been laying fallow since 1998 or so.....
_______________
quote:
The spellplague, as far as my unenlightened 5e experience can tell, hit like an 18-wheeler fuel truckcarrying liquid blue fire exploding across continents giving wizards such a bad time that Cormyr's entire system of war wizards had to be rebuilt from the ground up.
Agreed. It was quite....drastic.
quote:
Isn't it more interesting to believe that, first of all, some of that OP demilich power was left behind in his remains in the Tome now controlled by Zallanora? And also, a Lich wearing a bpdy kept pretty by Gentle Repose is still a lich, yes? Liches have conditionally less features (spellcasting set aside) than a demilich. There is a tradeoff in access to surreal soul powers when one dons a physical form to interact with the world, cast non-psionic magic, and wield magic items. Shoon in this body would cease to be a demilich and would, in a way, be like a lich in a fleshy body only instead of being kept alive by gentle repose they are kept alive with blood and air. This story from what i have seen took a sharp left turn at Shond and we never learned any details of the tranference. Obviously Shoon took the body to live on and be a catastrophically terrible evil creature.
Actually, after digging into this more, it appears that your hypothesis, is mostly, if not completely correct. As to the "...OP demilich power", it turns out that, quote:
He believes she might be able to soul
drain him, which might return their spirits to their proper bodies. While the experiment is a curiosity to him, he does not wish to give up his freedom or this new body. (Lands of Intrigue, Book III, p.11)
The true craziness of it all is that there are two demi-liches from what I can tell: quote:
Enchantments placed on the Tome by its creator allow both demiliches to use stealspell to gain one spell once a round from the mind of any one person who touches the Tome, no matter how brief a contact. (Lands of Intrigue, Book III, p.11)
Additionally, quote:
Neither Shoon nor Zallanora, as demiliches, are capable of memorizing spells as they once did, so their spellcasting is limited to what they can stealspell. (Lands of Intrigue, Book III, p.11)
In the end, they both appear to have the Trap the Soul ability among the other supernatural abilities.
You are correct that part of the demi-lich power is retained by Zallanora; however, one can readily tell things are not going well for her as quote:
Zallanora is nearly mad with fear and despair... (Lands of Intrigue, Book III, p.11)
As to to the notion of downgrading to becoming a lich from a demi-lich, a spell/ritual that has been completed would have to undone, back in time somehow. I just don't think that would happen.
Gentle Repose would not work as it has a duration of 1 day/level. It would require continual castings, which even with an item would run out well before the Spellplague ended. Plus, the Gentle Repose just takes care of a corpse, not an inhabited body, I believe. I don't know if you could repose an inhabited body by a lich. I'm frankly uncertain how Zallanora's body can survive having a demi-lich within her body. That just makes no sense to me, and I could not find anything affirming one way or another what would happen. Perhaps Mr. Schend will be able to shed some light on this?! :)
quote:
However the spellplague is creative liberty incarnate. I knew what I was saying when I played the failed-redemption card because this is a story trope that had been pulled off in other mediums with equally terrible beings.
Oh, the redemption commentary of mine was meant in a jocular fashion. I personally enjoy redemption stories. I just don't know if Shoon VII could get it. haha
quote:
I'm sure liches survived the spellplague, blue fire, and the death of Mystra in their own various ways.
Oh, liches did. Szass Tam is for sure one of them. However, nothing would have happened to liches as their phylacteries were already imbued with a duration of instantaneous, and after that, magic items were fine during the Spellplague, so liches would have been fine and actually have been powerful players I think during post-Spellplague times. One of Shoon VII's demi-lich powers was to consume souls, so during the Spellplague, he could just consume up to (8) souls a day. That is very powerful. Having that magic immunity against items as well, since there were no spells, would have been extremely powerful as well.
quote:
However is Elf-Shoon even a lich anymore? He's a soul stripped free from the bonds of a mortal coil who can destroy the souls of others to sustain their presence as a physical thing.
As to the being a lich, he is still a demi-lich, per the above citations. Since they are both demi-lich, he can do his thing. It still does seem every odd to me that Zallanora's body is surviving.
quote:
But Elf-Shoon swapped souls with Zalanorra.
That does appear to be what happened, quote:
When Zallanora faced the demilich and it attempted to drink her soul, the magical anarchy of the times altered the magic; the minds and spirits of Shoon and the elf switched bodies. (Lands of Intrigue, Book III, p.9)
quote:
Now her soul is dormant in the remains and able to be fueled on souls were it to come to that. Elf-Shoon though? He inhabits a body that likely can't tell the difference between their souls. That body is almost certainly in my mind, mortal.
It appears on the citations I gave above, that it was a complete switch, and that there are now two demi-liches.
quote:
If the body died Shoon would likely (as the process in which a body's soul would be flung through the astral upon death has long since been disconnected from Shoon's soul) be stuck in those remains and become another demilich- or maybe an expert can state a more studied answer there. But I don't think shoon has to absorb souls in this form. To sustain his vile magic, of course. But if he was stripped of his wizard levels? Then?
I actually think his soul would go back to the Tome of the Unicorn, and there would be a battle inside to keep the skull. That is a crazy idea to me.
I don't think that the demi-lich ritual can be undone: quote:
If all the soul gems, as well as the demilich’s phylactery, are not destroyed after a demilich is downed, the demilich reappears 1d10 days after its apparent death. The soul gems also allow the demilich to use its most devastating ability, trap the soul. (Epic Level Handbook, p.177)
We know therefore that the demi-lich just returns after 1d10 days, but I also think that with a demi-lich intentionally losing its body and having to incorporate (8) soul gems into its skull, that the mortal body of the Elf would just likely burn up at some point in the near future. I just don't think it can withstand the abuse. Though I can't find the source right now, I have read that Zulkir Tam has had to use magic to stop his lich body from breaking down over the years. Demi-lich are eschewing the body to avoid that limitation, thus, I think her body would break down quickly and he would then just revert to his originally enchanted skull, back in the tome where it is trapped.
quote:
If the spellplague tore through the body of what would appear to all as a living female elf wizard of supreme power the same way it tore through the War Wizards, could it drain him of his arcane powers all the same? An unexpected ridoculous downside to the sinful act of stealing an innocent's body and using it for evil? One Shoon would never have anticipated even with a megalomaniacal immortal paranoia?
No, the Demi-lich ritual has an instantaneous duration. He would maintain his demi-lich state. He would lose his spell access, but his Trap the Soul ability, magic immunity, etc., would all be maintained, as they are supernatural powers, not magic. I suppose such an outcome could occur for his "...sinful act...and using it for evil...", but that almost begs the question of who would be facilitating such an action against a being of such enormous power? It wouldn't be a god during those times, as it would require magic, which isn't available.
quote:
As long as the body is fed food and water and air, it is a perfectly viable vessel for a soul. (It's not as if Zallarona's soul has any connection to it at this point. On that note did she just find a way to become a lich without imbibing the suicide potion? That's kind of a big deal- Vecna should get on that.)
I don't know about that. A lich is eschewing the body to become a demi-lich. The idea being, it's too fragile. I can't imagine how an actual mortal body would not burn up in short order. The situation with there being two demi-liches is very odd, and I am guessing that there has been a split in power and perhaps that is what is avoiding the body from being consumed.
quote:
Shoon would likely still have some capacity to psionically (does the spellplague affect psionics?) drain life and use souls to sustain his spirit or perhaps the body (like in moments of starvation or fatal wounding) in a dire situation. But it would be far easier to just keep the act up and be Zallanora.
The Spellplague actually seemed to increase the prevalence of psionics: quote:
Some sages attribute the expansion of psionic ability to the Spellplague, believing that the twisting of magical energy has somehow permitted psionic power to flourish. Other scholars believe that the influx of psionic energy originates with Abeir’s return. (Psionic Powers, 5th Edition, p.110)
The ability to drain life wasn't actually psionic though, it is a supernatural ability that is attained upon achieving demi-lichdom. He would maintain it after the Spellplague.
quote:
Say you're a lich (not a demilich! different capabilities!) and you lose ALL of your wizard powers and can NEVER cast an arcane spell again. Not to mention the gods are COMPLETELY gone and speak with nobody, so faking your way into priest levels is out of the picture. All you can do is absorb souls.
Well, it would be much more limited of course, but below is a list of things it could still do:
- Still highly resistant in actual physical battle with a DR 15/bludgeoning and magic
- Still Immune cold, electricity, and maintains its undead traits
- Maintains its melee touch +5 (1d8+5 plus paralyzing touch)
- Maintains its special attacks: grave touch* (9/day), paralyzing touch (DC 18), power over undead* (9/day, DC 18), Rejuvination and Fear Aura
It could just amass an army of undead slowly but surely and bring it to bear against mortal locations, and giving the ultimatum to join or die, and keeps the train rolling.
quote:
Is that really a smart timr to live off in the wilderness attacking travellers and stealing their aouls, attracting attention to yourself when you have no spells to defend or flee with?
Sure it is. What's the consequence? It gets "killed", and the comes back 1d10 days later? It would easily wade through most opponents, and the ones that finally managed to kill him, wouldn't know where his phylactery is, so it would "live" without issue. It could then raise the people it slayed, add them to the undead pile, and keep it going forever. There is no divination, so there would be no viable way to find the phylactery. It would be a horrid situation I think.
quote:
Plus, this whole situation happened BECAUSE of wild magi released when she was attacked by Shoon and Shond, right? Why would Shoon ever risk another incalculable random event from wild magic by attempting to push the boundaries again during an age of wild magic tearing across all of Toril and Returned-Abeir in devastating fashion?
The reason he would risk it, is due to his magic immunity. I cannot say why any magic would have effected him, since there are only three spells which can: Dispel Evil, Shatter, and Holy Smite. So, weird, one-off surge of magic created a combination of those three spells that oddly caused that to happen. Even if that were possible, the odds of that happening again in a wild magic surge would be so improbable, that taking that chance would be well worth it.
quote:
If i were him I'd take what gifts I have and run off to a safe village and hunker down, never eating a soul if it would even draw a single eye towards me. I dont care what kind of unstoppable undead I am under the flesh and blood, I can't even cast a cantrip. Limited to the speed of foot and cart (save for portal secrets) even if a militia comes to sus you out for unholy acts of evil and you kill them, that's just going to attract the attention of those who can actually destroy you or worse.
Though, he could as I mentioned above, just raise an almost infinitely large undead army, and assault the world with it, causing one capitulation after another. He can't be killed unless all (8) soul gems are destroyed, alongside his skull and the phylactery. However, there would be absolutely no way to find his phylactery, since it is likely hidden in a pocket dimension, while he is using the Phylactery Transference to keep his AC around 60 or so, which would mean, very few people on the planet could even make contact with him, let alone damage him with DR30. Again though, even if he "dies" in a fight, he just comes back a few days later.
quote:
Does Shoon even have a working phylactery?
As far as I know: yes. Though, he likely has it fragmented with a spell such as Aumvor's Fragmented Phylactery. Making it almost impossible to track down.
quote:
If the Tome of the Unicorn acted as a Phylactery, then that phylactery is in my opinion absolutely 100% HERS now.
Even if the tome was the phylactery was the tome, it would be both of theirs, as they are both demi-liches.
quote:
For the sake of narrative tension, Shoon is a lich in skin with no Phylactery. If his form dies, he's going to be stuck in Zallarona's bones until someone happens upon them. If he tries to attack someone as a Demilich he might encounter wild magic again and get a far less favorable fate. (The soul-swap workin out in his favor was an example of total randomness seeming to favor letting evil get off scott-free. No genius would ever expect randomness to favor them twice.) The best scenario is to quietly live a life as an elf in the spellplague.
The narrative tale is quite cool. I like it a lot. I don't think it comports with the canon above, but I think it is great. :)
[quote]Think about it. She's an elf. She won't age much at all over a century or two. He can wait out the spellplague, and lose track of time as they get deep into their fake life as Zallarona. It's a classic trope! I'm not saying he would forget anything but he is in no rush to return to overt lichdom- not for multiple centuries! This is a scenario where an innocent elf became an unholy demilich and an unhply demilich became a innocent elf. Why not run the trope out juuust long enough to make a party of players consider the possibolity of him at least not being a threat.
Again, great idea for a story. Seriously have a lot of potential.
Best regards,
|
| George Krashos |
Posted - 29 Nov 2020 : 09:43:43
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
Sure! I'm updating the list with the events from the 5e sources. I'll add the sources on my next update.
Great work.
-- George Krashos |
| PattPlays |
Posted - 29 Nov 2020 : 03:17:54
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2
Master Zeromaru X,
Living Gem war
1367DR - 1368DR: purported to go on for at least (5) months, but not exactly known
Type: A rebellion
The "war" was not a proper war itself. It was a wizard who had some serious insanity issues who went and pursued the royal library of Ruathym. In the process of doing so, he found the Tome of the Unicorn and encountered Shoon VII (my favorite wizard). He made a deal with Shoon VII that ultimately led to Shoon VII escape imprisonment in the tome. The boon granted Shond Tharovin (the wizard who found the tome) was information on where to find the Living Gem. Ultimately he found it and supplanted the government in Schamedar. An archmage tried to stop Shond, but failed and died in the casting of a spell. In the end, cultists of Shond slew many in the city. The fight lasted months when finally the Satraps attacked and took over the city after much death, money and time was spent retaking the city.
Best regards,
Do you have the source for this?
Lands of Intrigue, I believe. Just read it the other week. |
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 28 Nov 2020 : 21:03:58
quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2
Master Zeromaru X,
Living Gem war
1367DR - 1368DR: purported to go on for at least (5) months, but not exactly known
Type: A rebellion
The "war" was not a proper war itself. It was a wizard who had some serious insanity issues who went and pursued the royal library of Ruathym. In the process of doing so, he found the Tome of the Unicorn and encountered Shoon VII (my favorite wizard). He made a deal with Shoon VII that ultimately led to Shoon VII escape imprisonment in the tome. The boon granted Shond Tharovin (the wizard who found the tome) was information on where to find the Living Gem. Ultimately he found it and supplanted the government in Schamedar. An archmage tried to stop Shond, but failed and died in the casting of a spell. In the end, cultists of Shond slew many in the city. The fight lasted months when finally the Satraps attacked and took over the city after much death, money and time was spent retaking the city.
Best regards,
Do you have the source for this? |
| PattPlays |
Posted - 28 Nov 2020 : 10:19:03
I'm not giving the guy a free pass, I'm letting fate punish him even harder and making a one-of-a-kind adventure at the same time. Not tryna derail the thread, I just wanted to get to hear what people think about this whole ElfShoon thing and the opportunity presented by the Spellplague.
On that note, Shond probably avoided those downsides of the spellplague by hiding underwater in his squishy kaiju form. That maniac can start wars all on his own- I mean he has a track record of doing just that.
And if she returned to her body with a broken mind and a raging unholy desire for revenge, she might be as much of a threat as Shoon and Shond. I'd imagine she would flee southward through the forests where she was ambushed and find her kind being enslaved and sold south into Schamedar and beyond. Imagine a slave rebellion led by some insane elven pseudo-lich. Imagine her starting said slave-riot in Schamedar just as Shond slithers back into the city through the same sewers he escaped in a century prior? Imagine Shoon, now bound to the tome of the unicorn once more, blaming the adventurers for ruining everything and coming to a hilarious begrudging alliance to chase her down and unmake this horrible unique pseudo-lich entity before it becomes a major priblem for everyone involved, good or evil. Imagine a party of adventurers, Shoon, the pseudo-lich raging elf (whom the escaping slaves wouldn't really see as a heroic figure, and who- as an inocent nobody, may be incapable of ruling as anything but an insane despot- giving EVERYONE bad Shond/Shoon flashbacks) all the while SHOND SHOWS UP in collossal form and looms over entire buildings.
Imagine Shond demanding that Shoon return to him and take over Calimshan together again and rule the world, with Shoon the Demilich not really sure what to do.
I know NOTHING about Calimshan and the lands of intrigue but all signs to me seem to be pointing to these characters returning to cause chaos in the south all over again.
Come on- if Strahd can be defeated by being imprisoned in a cute stuffed doll then Shoon can become an emotionally confused spooky man in a book. I mean look at what happens to FREAKING GARGAUTH AND ZARIEK in Baldur's Gate: Descent into Avernus! 5e is BUILT for stories like this! I mean I guess I'm basically pitching a return to Calimshan adventure to wotc right now in the same vein that they followed with tons of other villains in their recent adventueres.. Modern day fans would have an absolute blast carrying around a demilich in a book and would comlletely crap themselves facing off against Shond's Kaiju-form with full slellcasting capabilities while (following Shoon being attacked by her when the party brings the Tome of the Unicorn within range and setting off the events of the climax and the race for Schamedar) the cause of all of this, Shoon, is stuck being carried around by the party trying to figure out what his best option is while everything starts kicking off all at once.
Even a legendary badass villain like Shoon would be quite rattled and flabbergasted when he's watering his garden and having friends over for dinner one day, there's a knock at his door, he gets up to answer it and BOOM the skull flies in through and shattering the bay windows and swapa souls back with him, the party frantically shuts the book, and the innocents in the house watch as their life-long friend screams bloody murder, drains the souls of everyone in the house, and escapes southward.
Even if Shoon is overtly lying to the party when they open the book up to talk to him, everyone would be feeling bad. The party would feel stupid for trusting the elf demilich, Shoon would feel complicated and violent thoughts about growing soft enough for her to find him, and honestly he'd probably tell the party where he stored all of his healing resources and magical items in the house as to prepare them for a new quest of two-pronged vengeance, unwittigly charging right to the spot where Shond is staging a grand and terrible return.
Ps: On the dragon protector, I doubt it would stick around when Shoon loses all wizard levels. |
| PattPlays |
Posted - 28 Nov 2020 : 10:11:04
I know dude but wizards all across Toril had telepathic heart attacks and all sorts pf nonsense, often losing access to magic fpr their entire lives beyond even the spellplaghe. And the soul-swap left Zallanora as a demi-lich with an undefined level of unholy power. We haven't seen elf-Shoon once since he freaky-friday'd off into obscurity, unless someone else has some hidden lore.
The spellplague, as far as my unenlightened 5e experience can tell, hit like an 18-wheeler fuel truckcarrying liquid blue fire exploding across continents giving wizards such a bad time that Cormyr's entire system of war wizards had to be rebuilt from the ground up.
Isn't it more interesting to believe that, first of all, some of that OP demilich power was left behind in his remains in the Tome now controlled by Zallanora?
And also, a Lich wearing a bpdy kept pretty by Gentle Repose is still a lich, yes?
Liches have conditionally less features (spellcasting set aside) than a demilich. There is a tradeoff in access to surreal soul powers when one dons a physical form to interact with the world, cast non-psionic magic, and wield magic items. Shoon in this body would cease to be a demilich and would, in a way, be like a lich in a fleshy body only instead of being kept alive by gentle repose they are kept alive with blood and air. This story from what i have seen took a sharp left turn at Shond and we never learned any details of the tranference. Obviously Shoon took the body to live on and be a catastrophically terrible evil creature.
However the spellplague is creative liberty incarnate. I knew what I was saying when I played the failed-redemption card because this is a story trope that had been pulled off in other mediums with equally terrible beings.
I'm sure liches survived the spellplague, blue fire, and the death of Mystra in their own various ways. However is Elf-Shoon even a lich anymore? He's a soul stripped free from the bonds of a mortal coil who can destroy the souls of others to sustain their presence as a physical thing.
But Elf-Shoon swapped souls with Zalanorra. Now her soul is dormant in the remains and able to be fueled on souls were it to come to that. Elf-Shoon though? He inhabits a body that likely can't tell the difference between their souls. That body is almost certainly in my mind, mortal. If the body died Shoon would likely (as the process in which a body's soul would be flung through the astral upon death has long since been disconnected from Shoon's soul) be stuck in those remains and become another demilich- or maybe an expert can state a more studied answer there. But I don't think shoon has to absorb souls in this form. To sustain his vile magic, of course. But if he was stripped of his wizard levels? Then?
If the spellplague tore through the body of what would appear to all as a living female elf wizard of supreme power the same way it tore through the War Wizards, could it drain him of his arcane powers all the same? An unexpected ridoculous downside to the sinful act of stealing an innocent's body and using it for evil? One Shoon would never have anticipated even with a megalomaniacal immortal paranoia?
As long as the body is fed food and water and air, it is a perfectly viable vessel for a soul. (It's not as if Zallarona's soul has any connection to it at this point. On that note did she just find a way to become a lich without imbibing the suicide potion? That's kind of a big deal- Vecna should get on that.) Shoon would likely still have some capacity to psionically (does the spellplague affect psionics?) drain life and use souls to sustain his spirit or perhaps the body (like in moments of starvation or fatal wounding) in a dire situation. But it would be far easier to just keep the act up and be Zallanora.
Say you're a lich (not a demilich! different capabilities!) and you lose ALL of your wizard powers and can NEVER cast an arcane spell again. Not to mention the gods are COMPLETELY gone and speak with nobody, so faking your way into priest levels is out of the picture. All you can do is absorb souls.
Is that really a smart timr to live off in the wilderness attacking travellers and stealing their aouls, attracting attention to yourself when you have no spells to defend or flee with? Plus, this whole situation happened BECAUSE of wild magi released when she was attacked by Shoon and Shond, right? Why would Shoon ever risk another incalculable random event from wild magic by attempting to push the boundaries again during an age of wild magic tearing across all of Toril and Returned-Abeir in devastating fashion?
If i were him I'd take what gifts I have and run off to a safe village and hunker down, never eating a soul if it would even draw a single eye towards me. I dont care what kind of unstoppable undead I am under the flesh and blood, I can't even cast a cantrip. Limited to the speed of foot and cart (save for portal secrets) even if a militia comes to sus you out for unholy acts of evil and you kill them, that's just going to attract the attention of those who can actually destroy you or worse.
Does Shoon even have a working phylactery? If the Tome of the Unicorn acted as a Phylactery, then that phylactery is in my opinion absolutely 100% HERS now. For the sake of narrative tension, Shoon is a lich in skin with no Phylactery. If his form dies, he's going to be stuck in Zallarona's bones until someone happens upon them. If he tries to attack someone as a Demilich he might encounter wild magic again and get a far less favorable fate. (The soul-swap workin out in his favor was an example of total randomness seeming to favor letting evil get off scott-free. No genius would ever expect randomness to favor them twice.) The best scenario is to quietly live a life as an elf in the spellplague.
Think about it. She's an elf. She won't age much at all over a century or two. He can wait out the spellplague, and lose track of time as they get deep into their fake life as Zallarona. It's a classic trope! I'm not saying he would forget anything but he is in no rush to return to overt lichdom- not for multiple centuries! This is a scenario where an innocent elf became an unholy demilich and an unhply demilich became a innocent elf. Why not run the trope out juuust long enough to make a party of players consider the possibolity of him at least not being a threat. Powerless except for a terrible innate power that they only use in self defense at the most dire situations, having to plead to those who discover him that they didn't do anything wrong. Finding friends who would cover up murders and even signs of undead powers because their friend is "innocent". Looking out their window doing dishes and seeing a lone nobody destitute traveler drop unconscious on the road just in front of their house, getting the itch for a conseauence-free soul drain. Elf-Shoon rushes out the door to the dying man, looking around for anyone within sight. nobody. Suddenly the man grabs her and coughs, asking to be killed to stop the suffering. Elf-Shoon not only can get away with this vile act, but do so in a way that would be.. benevolent? All the while knowing that, a short sprint away, they have stashed away magical poltuces potions and other treatments that they have hoarded for the preservation of their own life. Draining his life would likely feel like ecstasy, sure, but how would they deal with the memory of that peaceful smile coming over the form of the man- not knowing that he just consigned himself to obliteration- never to see any afterlife? This mortal body dreams at night. Would he dare curse himself to conflicted thoughts at night for the rest of this unending mortal charade? Would letting him just suffer and die in his arms feel.. better? Or maybe taking him home and healin him would secure an ally that he could manipulate?
With time and without power, any acts can start looking good. That's the terrifying creeping power of Good. One never has to stop doing evil. The saturday-morning cartoonish second-guessing of evil acts in some strange context is all that is needed to show the faintest glimmer of, not turning good, but turning away from unecessary evil. All snuffed away when a party of interlopers brings back the cursed soul of the life he stole back to him, damning him to return to a form that once again HAS to devour souls to survive. I'm not trying to turn shoon into a story of hope. I'm trying to show how it can be a story of even deeper sorrow and ever the more reasons why evil really is evil. After-all, this whole situation would in the end have produced *two, terrible lich-y evils upon the world. Any good that may have grown in the mortal beating heart of Elf-Shoon would be ever the more torturous. If the unspeakable vileness that is Shoon could be *allowed* a taste of goodness or simple neutrakity, then that shard of innocence would sit in his vile unholy soul for eternity ever-the-more torturing his damned undead spirit to regret and rage against life; no longer purely out of hatred and narcicism, but out of regret as well. |
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 28 Nov 2020 : 08:44:54
Learned Scribe PattPlays,
quote:
So Shoon's female elven form isn't even growing that old by the time of the Present Age, huh?
I would gather that has to do with Shoon VII being a demi-lich, but that is merely a guess.
quote:
I mean, it makes sense. Wizards had a BAD TIME with the Spellplague and Shoon's best chances at survival would probably be to just never cast even a cantrip and just -be- Zallanora for a century.
Oh yeah, that could happen. Also, the stats for a demi-lich are insane, and would allow Shoon VII to wreck face the entire (100) years:
quote:
Diminutive Undead
Hit Dice: 21d12 (130 hp)
Initiative: +7 (+3 Dex, +4 Improved Initiative)
Speed: Fly 180 ft. (perfect)
AC: 51 (+4 size, +3 Dex, +5 natural armor, +8 bracers of
armor, +2 ring of protection, +21 insight)
Attacks: Touch +21 melee
Damage: Touch 10d6+20 plus paralyzing touch
Face/Reach: 1 ft. by 1 ft./0 ft.
Special Attacks: Trap the soul, fear aura, paralyzing
touch, 21st-level wizard spellcaster, Perfect Automatic
Still Spell, spell-like abilities
Special Qualities: Magic immunity, phylactery transference,
turn resistance +20, DR 30/–, undead traits, acid
resistance 20, fire resistance 20, sonic resistance 20,
immune to cold, electricity, polymorph, and mindaffecting
attacks.
Saves: Fort +10, Ref +12, Will +17
Abilities: Str 10, Dex 16 (with gloves), Con —, Int 39 (with
headband), Wis 24, Cha 20
Skills: Alchemy +38, Concentration +25, Hide +27,
Knowledge (arcana, religion) +38, Knowledge (the planes,
nobility and royality, history, local) +28, Listen +26, Move
Silently +27, Scry +27, Search +38, Sense Motive +26,
Spellcraft +38, Spot +26
Feats: Brew Potion, Combat Casting, Craft Wondrous
Item, Enlarge Spell, Heighten Spell, Improved Inititative,
Lightning Reflexes, Maximize Spell, Quicken
Spell, Scribe Scroll, Spell Penetration, Toughness
Epic Feats: Automatic Quicken Spell, Epic Spellcasting
Improved Spell Capacity (10th), Tenacious Magician
Climate/Terrain: Any
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 29
Treasure: Standard
Alignment: Neutral evil
Advancement: By character class
quote:
I wonder if there's room for character growth in a Lich when they spend that long kept from the Arcane arts and inhabiting a mortal body. It feels like the perfect setup for a ruined-redemption story.
I believe in the Milky Way galaxy, it is a felony to associate, in any way, the word 'redemption' at all with Shoon VII. lol ;) That dude by exact, lore written numbers genocidally wiped out over 3,000,000 million people. He's a bad dude!
quote:
Imagine- Shoon VII the terrible- living a peaceful life in the years prior to the official end of the spellplague. (early 5e before 1491, when the spellplague's effects aren't debilitating anyone but information about it all hasn't spread through the world yet and people are just starting to figure out what happened with the Second Sundering)
I think Eldath just had a stroke reading Shoon VII and peaceful in the same sentence! lol I honestly think he'd be off grabbing that treasure of artifacts and magic items he had that dragon guarding for him.
Best regards,
|
| PattPlays |
Posted - 28 Nov 2020 : 08:28:14
quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2
Learned Scribe PattPlays,
quote:
So the female elf spirit which became trapped in Shoon's Demilich remains in the Tome of the Unicorn has only been in there for a little over a hundred years! Wow. And to think that the Temple to the Elder Orb of Ooze was opened so recently... I thought this dude was cursed to be the 99 roll on a d100 for any adventurers in the Shining or Trackless seas..
Indeed good sir! Yeah, I cannot speak to the later timeline stuff (like the 1600's, haha), but yeah it was a crazy situation. This is why Shoon VII is my favorite wizard. The crazy stuff he does. Ridiculously powerful, insightful, and gets the job done.
Best regards,
Hah! I hadn't realized Dawnbringer (don'ttalkaboutOOTApatrickdon'tyoudoit) was set in the future like that. Funnily enough I found a quirk in the wiki's code.
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/1599_DR 1599 is the Present Age. 1600 is the Era of Upheaval. Funny mishap there.
So Shoon's female elven form isn't even growing that old by the time of the Present Age, huh?
quote:
1358 DR [Year of Shadows]
Shond Tharovin unleashes the demilich Shoon VII on Zallanora Argentresses, a young female moon elf wizard, and the spirits of the undead qysar and the young elf switch bodies. »
So there's been nothing about him..
I mean, it makes sense. Wizards had a BAD TIME with the Spellplague and Shoon's best chances at survival would probably be to just never cast even a cantrip and just -be- Zallanora for a century.
I wonder if there's room for character growth in a Lich when they spend that long kept from the Arcane arts and inhabiting a mortal body. It feels like the perfect setup for a ruined-redemption story. Adventuring party gets a hold of the Tome of the Unicorn and manages to calm the released Demilich inside. She tells them who to look for and that she may be able to do to him what he did to her. After much searching across the lands asking about this moon elf, they may finally find her. Imagine- Shoon VII the terrible- living a peaceful life in the years prior to the official end of the spellplague. (early 5e before 1491, when the spellplague's effects aren't debilitating anyone but information about it all hasn't spread through the world yet and people are just starting to figure out what happened with the Second Sundering)
Just as the party realizes the potential of letting Shoon's innocence develop just a bit longer after over a century of quiet mortal life, that they could just leave him be and perhaps avoid stirring the sleeping wrath inside, Zallanora comes screeching out from the tome to soul-swap with him. Now they have Shoon, his memories and hatred pouring back in an instant and causing him to enter an unending maniacal Demilich rage- and the insane Zallanora now obsessed with lichdom trying to flee the scene (or worse, take the Tome and dissapear with it to research and enact 'proper vengeance' on both Shoon and Shond). There are few scenes I can imagine on Toril in 5e that would be so.. quiet.. yet so terrible to let occur..
Perhaps it's best nobody finds out one way or another. Still, that's one hell of a trope. |
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 28 Nov 2020 : 08:07:24
Learned Scribe PattPlays,
quote:
So the female elf spirit which became trapped in Shoon's Demilich remains in the Tome of the Unicorn has only been in there for a little over a hundred years! Wow. And to think that the Temple to the Elder Orb of Ooze was opened so recently... I thought this dude was cursed to be the 99 roll on a d100 for any adventurers in the Shining or Trackless seas..
Indeed good sir! Yeah, I cannot speak to the later timeline stuff (like the 1600's, haha), but yeah it was a crazy situation. This is why Shoon VII is my favorite wizard. The crazy stuff he does. Ridiculously powerful, insightful, and gets the job done.
Best regards,
|
| PattPlays |
Posted - 28 Nov 2020 : 08:02:40
quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2
Master Zeromaru X,
Living Gem war
1367DR - 1368DR: purported to go on for at least (5) months, but not exactly known
Type: A rebellion
The "war" was not a proper war itself. It was a wizard who had some serious insanity issues who went and pursued the royal library of Ruathym. In the process of doing so, he found the Tome of the Unicorn and encountered Shoon VII (my favorite wizard). He made a deal with Shoon VII that ultimately led to Shoon VII escape imprisonment in the tome. The boon granted Shond Tharovin (the wizard who found the tome) was information on where to find the Living Gem. Ultimately he found it and supplanted the government in Schamedar. An archmage tried to stop Shond, but failed and died in the casting of a spell. In the end, cultists of Shond slew many in the city. The fight lasted months when finally the Satraps attacked and took over the city after much death, money and time was spent retaking the city.
Best regards,
waitwaitwaiwatiwitaiwitiwaitwiatiwait-
that happened in the 14th century DR? I thought that was ancient history!! So the female elf spirit which became trapped in Shoon's Demilich remains in the Tome of the Unicorn has only been in there for a little over a hundred years! Wow. And to think that the Temple to the Elder Orb of Ooze was opened so recently..
I'm just amazed that Shond Tharovin's colossal gibbering mouther transformation isn't a more commonly discussed thi-
Oh my god you just made me check the eizzn archives and apparently Shond learned how to shift back into their human form. I thought this dude was cursed to be the 99 roll on a d100 for any adventurers in the Shining or Trackless seas..
quote:
Nightal 1637DR: A mage observing the situation in Schamedar reports that Shond Tharovin has escaped into the sea, heading north and west. He claims that Tharovin can now shift between his human and his gibbering mouther forms (which he can use to travel underwater) and has devised a spell that can track him whenever he is human. »
Looking up Schamedar and.. there it is again! Why does this Twisted Rune keep showing up in my research.. |
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 28 Nov 2020 : 06:12:49
Master Zeromaru X,
Living Gem war
1367DR - 1368DR: purported to go on for at least (5) months, but not exactly known
Type: A rebellion
The "war" was not a proper war itself. It was a wizard who had some serious insanity issues who went and pursued the royal library of Ruathym. In the process of doing so, he found the Tome of the Unicorn and encountered Shoon VII (my favorite wizard). He made a deal with Shoon VII that ultimately led to Shoon VII escape imprisonment in the tome. The boon granted Shond Tharovin (the wizard who found the tome) was information on where to find the Living Gem. Ultimately he found it and supplanted the government in Schamedar. An archmage tried to stop Shond, but failed and died in the casting of a spell. In the end, cultists of Shond slew many in the city. The fight lasted months when finally the Satraps attacked and took over the city after much death, money and time was spent retaking the city.
Best regards,
|
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 28 Nov 2020 : 04:51:20
I've updated the list up to 1487 DR and added sources, as well as some date corrections.
I'm still laking anything from the 5e modules, such as the Thayan Resurrection and the giant civil war. |
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 27 Nov 2020 : 08:04:56
Senior Scribe Delnyn,
quote:
So the Karanoks are no longer flaming insane murderhobos of arcanists, dwarves and elves? What is next, a Thayan enclave in Luchteq(sp)?
In post-Spellplague history, a guy named Ishual Karanok rose up and led the nation to unification. Very ironic. As Master Zeromaru X said though, there is still plenty of racism, etc. It is afterall an Old Empire and old habits die hard, if ever.
Best regards,
|
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 27 Nov 2020 : 00:52:45
Sure! I'm updating the list with the events from the 5e sources. I'll add the sources on my next update. |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 27 Nov 2020 : 00:25:21
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
Well, here is my contribution for this scroll. I’m focusing in the post-Spellplague (4e) years as I’m more familiarized with these events, and because other sages can cover the earlier years better that me. I’m going to use paec_djinn’s format for convenience. I’m sticking to canon here. Which means I’m going to ignore stuff from the LFR adventures. My notes and comments are written in cursive.
<BIG SNIP>
Aaaand… that is what I have so far. I’m checking my 5e sources for any major conflicts during the Second Sundering, but any help would be appreciated. Especially with stuff related to the Thayan Resurrection…
This is great but if the references for these events could be added (sourcebooks/adventures/novels etc.) then that would be fabulous.
-- George Krashos |
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 26 Nov 2020 : 16:27:23
They still discriminate dwarves, elves and wizards. But now is more civilized, not something done by deranged people. |
| Delnyn |
Posted - 26 Nov 2020 : 15:24:09
So the Karanoks are no longer flaming insane murderhobos of arcanists, dwarves and elves? What is next, a Thayan enclave in Luchteq(sp)?
quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2
Master Zeromaru X,
What I find most interesting about all of those wars listed are the first three!
You can really see how the Untheric Crusade and the First War of the Zulkirs, would have geo-politically allowed for a power vacuum to occur to distract any possible outside interference and thus get Chessenta to unify. So cool to see that. Ironic of course that any Karanok would have made that happen, hahaha.
Best regards,
|
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 14 Nov 2020 : 17:40:04
Master Zeromaru X,
What I find most interesting about all of those wars listed are the first three!
You can really see how the Untheric Crusade and the First War of the Zulkirs, would have geo-politically allowed for a power vacuum to occur to distract any possible outside interference and thus get Chessenta to unify. So cool to see that. Ironic of course that any Karanok would have made that happen, hahaha.
Best regards,
|
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 11 Nov 2020 : 13:56:11
Well, here is my contribution for this scroll. I’m focusing in the post-Spellplague (4e) years as I’m more familiarized with these events, and because other sages can cover the earlier years better that me. I’m going to use paec_djinn’s format for convenience. I’m sticking to canon here. Which means I’m going to ignore stuff from the LFR adventures. My notes and comments are written in cursive.
Untheric Crusade
Unther (1372–1379)
Conclusion: Mulhorand manages to finally conquer Unther, ushering in the short-lived "Third Mulhorandi Empire". Both Unther and Mulhorand are destroyed during the Spellplague.
Sources:
Grand History of the Realms, p.159
First War of the Zulkirs
Thay (1375–1385)
Important Battles:
1375
-First Battle of Thazar Keep (the keep falls to a horde of undead. The Tharch of Pyarados is overrun)
-Second Battle of Thazar Keep (Thazar Keep is reclaimed by the Griffon Legion. Pyarados is reclaimed in the following days)
1385
-First Battle of the Keep of Sorrows (almost decisive victory for Szass Tam, until the Spellplague hit, forcing all combatants to retreat)
-Second Battle of the Keep of Sorrows (decisive victory for Szass Tam)
-Naval Battle of Benzatur (the Council of Zulkirs successfully flees Thay)
Conclusion: Szass Tam becomes the High Regent of Thay. The Council of Zulkirs flees to the Wizard’s Reach in exile. The Zulkir of Necromancy and the six other Zulkirs settle in for a long civil war.
Sources:
Grand History of the Realms, p.158
The Haunted Lands, Book I: Unclean
The Haunted Lands, Book II: Undead
Ghost King invasion of Erlkazar
Erlkazar (1385)
Conclusion: An army made up of undead and creatures from the Shadowfell belonging to the Ghost King assault the Spirit Soaring and Carradoon in Erlkazar. The Ghost King was eventually stopped by the efforts of Drizzt Do’Urden and friends.
Sources:
Transitions, Book III: The Ghost King
The Wailing Years take place in the 1385-1395 decade.
Chessentan unification
Chessenta (Wailing Years)
Conclusion: War Hero Ishual Karanok unifies Chessenta as a single political entity. Chessenta involuntarily cedes all its western lands, those most radically altered by the Spellplague, to the Abeiran genasi of Akan#363;l.
Sources:
Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide, p.100
Dungeon 178: “Backdrop: Chessenta”, p.69
Dambrathi Rebellion
Dambrath (Wailing Years)
Conclusion: The Arkaiun rebels overthrow their Crinti masters and end their rule of Dambrath. The Crinti and the priests of Loviatar are killed or driven away from the country.
Sources:
Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide, p.115
Dragonborn rebellion in Laerakond
Melabrauth, Skelkor (Wailing Years)
Important Battles:
-Battle of Djerad Kusold (Djerad Kusold is obliterated by Melauthaur, all the defenders die)
Conclusion: The dragonborn rebels of Melabrauth managed to slay nearly one-quarter of the dragon lords before their rebellion was put down. Melauthaur forbid the use of humanoid slaves in his lands ever since. The dragonborn of Skelkor are also defeated, after killing many of the dragon lords of that realm as well.
Sources:
Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide, pp.210, 213
Second Era of Skyfire
Calimshan (Wailing Years–1450)
Important Battles:
-Battle of Skyfire Desert (Auril’s forces attack Calimshan; the desert is frozen for months)
Conclusion: The Second Era of Skyfire starts when the djinn Calim and the efreet Memnon are freed from the Calimemnon Crystal during the Spellplague, and they immediately began to fight each other once more. The result was thousands dead, the desert’s expansion east across the Spider Swamp, and an explosion in the genasi population. The Second Era of Skyfire comes to an end when Calim and Memnon are sent back to their homes in the Elemental Chaos by unknown means in 1450. Their genasi lieutenants and foot soldiers continued a bloody war based on little more than opposing elemental philosophies until the Second Sundering, when human followers of a Chosen of Ilmater overthrew their masters.
Sources:
Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide, p.98
Sword Coast Adventurer’s Guide, p.10
Cormyr vs Eldreth Veluuthra
Cormyr (1394)
Conclusion: A brief conflict between Cormyr and the Eldreth Veluuthra of the Hullack Forest breaks out, ending when King Azoun V turns his full attention to more pressing threats from neighboring Sembia and Netheril.
Sources:
Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide, p.108
Amnian invasion of the Moonshae Isles
Moonshae Isles (1404–1413)
Important Battles:
1404
-Amnian conquest of Caer Westphal (this invasion starts a long war between the Amnian invaders and the Kendrick dynasty).
1408
-Siege of Caer Corwell (Amnian invaders successfully conquer the Kingdom of Corwell)
1411
-Deachtere Wood Massacre (the Amnians kill almost all the fey of Deachtere Wood)
1412
-War of Gwynneth (The queen of Sarifal declares war on all non-fey in response to the Deachtere Wood Massacre)
-Battle of Mog Goidel (Decisive victory of the Kendrick armada over the Amnian invaders)
Conclusion: The Amnian invaders flee the Moonshaes in 1413, but all their ships are destroyed while fleeing by the Leviathan. The Kendrick dynasty remains in power, but now has to deal with the fey of Sarifal and the dark fey of Dernall Forest.
Sources:
“Post-Spellplague Timeline” by Brian R. James
Dragon 376: “Realmslore: Sarifal”, p.60
Sembian invasion of the Dales
Sembia, the Dales (1418–1441)
Important Battles:
1418
-The Shadovar accidentally conquer Featherdale.
1420
-Sembian invasion of Tasseldale
1421
-Chandler’s Cross Massacre (A Sembian mercenary army slaughters many folk of the Scardale)
1422
-Battle of Essembra (Shadovar forces conquer Battledale)
1439
A series of battles between Cormyr and Sembia lead to a full-scale war.
1440
-Battle of Archenbridge (the free Dalesfolk join forces to defeat a massive Sembian mercenary force)
1441
-Siege of Saerb and Urmlaspyr (Cormyrian forces come to aid the Dalesfolk to defeat the Sembians)
Conclusion: Pressured on all sides, Sembia (with approval from its Netherese governors) agrees to sign the Treaty of Griffonfang Bridge with Cormyr, the Dalelands, and the elven realm of Cormanthor. The uneasy armistice endured until 1484.
Sources:
Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide, p.108
“Post-Spellplague Timeline” by Brian R. James
Aglarondan civil war
Aglarond (1425)
Conclusion: A brief conflict between the apprentices of the Simbul and the Aglarondan nobles after her presumed death. The apprentices win and form the Simbarch Council to rule Aglarond. The Simbarchs then declare war on the Thayan expatriates living in the Wizard’s Reach, but the conflict reaches a standstill.
Sources:
Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide, p.88
Akan#363;l vs the Abolethic Sovereignty
Akan#363;l (1429)
Important Battles:
-Destruction of Brassune
Conclusion: The genasi relocate their capital to the formerly Chessentan city of Airspur.
Sources:
Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide, p.90
Twelvefold conflict
Gontal (1429)
Important Battles:
-Destruction of Darkturret
Conclusion: An army of the Twelvefold families attacks Darturret (an outpost of one of the families) and destroys it in revenge for the stealing of some treasures.
Sources:
Dragon 366: “Gontal”, p.52
Undead invasion of Elturel
Elturgard (1444)
Conclusion: A powerful vampire lord, leading an army of undead, conquers the city of Elturel. The Companion (a “mini-sun”) appears in the sky and destroys the undead, as part of one of the nefarious plans the archdevil Zariel had for Elturel.
Sources:
Baldur’s Gate: Descent into Avernus, p.7
Many-Arrows’ Civil War
Many-Arrows (1450–1460)
Conclusion: The king of Many-Arrows, Obould XVII, unifies the disparate orc tribes and is able to maintain the kingdom as a singular political entity until 1484.
Sources:
Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide, p.149
Warlock Knights vs minotaurs
Vaasa (1453)
Conclusion: The minotaurs of Kond are swept away by the Warlock Knights.
Sources:
“Post-Spellplague Timeline” by Brian R. James
Bloodstone’s civil war
Damara, Vaasa (1459-1469)
Conclusion: Bloodline of Dragonsbane presumed extinct. The usurper Lord Yarin Frostmantle takes the throne of Damara. The Warlock Knights take control of Vaasa.
Sources:
Dungeon 177: “Realmslore: Vaasa”, p.78
“Post-Spellplague Timeline” by Brian R. James
Elturgard vs goblinoids and gnolls
Elturgard (1459)
Conclusion: The High Observer of Torm orders the Reaching Woods barricaded, in an attempt to contain the goblin and gnoll tribes living there.
Sources:
Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide, p.125
Shadovar-Thay War
Neverwinter (1461-1463)
Important Battles:
-Battle of Neverwinter
Conclusion: Both forces are defeated by the efforts of Drizzt Do’Urden and friends. The Dread Ring of Neverwinter is damaged.
Sources:
Neverwinter, Book I: Gauntlgrym
Neverwinter, Book II: Neverwinter
Neverwinter, Book III: Charon’s Claw
Derro vs Yuan-ti
Delzimmer (1462)
Conclusion: The Slime King, ruler of a derro clan, orders her subjects to abduct a yuan-ti tribe living in the jungle near Delzimmer.
Sources:
Venom in Her Veins
Battle of Hulburg
Hulburg (1466)
Conclusion: In an attempt to seize control of Griffonwatch Keep in Hulburg, Kamoth Kastelmar and several Shieldsworn loyal to him attempt to kill Harmach Grigor Hulmaster but are discovered. Rather than face prosecution, they flee the castle and town.
Sources:
Blades of the Moonsea, Book II: Corsair
Demon invasion of Ten-towns
Ten-towns (1466)
Conclusion: The balor lord Errtu and several glabrezu demons attack Bryn Shander in Ten-towns in an effort to draw out Drizzt Do'Urden. Drizzt does not appear but Tiago Baenre, also hunting Drizzt, witnesses the attack and slays Errtu, banishing him back to the Abyss. Despite their reservations, the people of Bryn Shander laud Tiago as a hero, erecting a statue of him while Drizzt becomes a persona non grata in Ten-towns.
Sources:
Neverwinter, Book IV: The Last Threshold
Keepers of the Cerulean Sign vs the Abolethic Sovereignty
Akan#363;l (1473)
Conclusion: The Keepers of the Cerulean Sign attack the Abolethic Sovereignty in Akan#363;l. In retaliation, the Abolethic Sovereignty destroys the towns of Tohrepur and Caidris, where they defeat the Keepers’ mercenary army.
Sources:
The Wilds, Book II: The Restless Shore
Najara’s Civil War
Najara (1474)
Conclusion: The dark naga Jarant slays the naga Ebarnaje to become the new King of Snakes of Najara.
Sources:
Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide, p.158
Aglarond vs Zulkirs-in-exile
Aglarond, Wizard’s Reach (1478)
Important Battles:
-Battle of Yuirwood
Conclusion: The Aglarondan forces are defeated by the efforts of the exiled Thayan forces and the Brotherhood of the Griffon mercenary company. The Zulkirs-in-exile decide to attack Thay instead of pressing towards Aglarond.
Sources:
The Haunted Lands, Book III: Unholy
Second War of the Zulkirs
Thay (1478)
Important Battles:
-Siege of the Dread Ring of Lapendrar (Brotherhood of the Griffon, Zulkirs’ army and Thayan rebels’ pyrrhic victory)
-Battle of Anhaurz (Brotherhood of the Griffon pyrrhic victory)
Conclusion: All the Zulkirs-in-exile are killed by Szass Tam, thus ending the long Thayan civil war with a decisive victory for Szass Tam, but the Dread Ring of Thay is damaged. A diminished Brotherhood of the Griffon is able to flee Thay.
Sources:
The Haunted Lands, Book III: Unholy
Brimstone’s Xorvintaal
Akan#363;l, Chessenta, High Imaskar, Murgh#333;m, Threskel, Tymanther (1479)
Important Battles:
-Chessentan invasion of Threskel (Decisive Chessentan victory; Threskel is annexed to Chessenta)
-Ash giant invasion of Tymanther (Tymantheran victory)
-Siege of Ashhold (Decisive Tymantheran victory; the ash giant coalition is dissolved)
-Battle of Luthcheq (all the major dragon players are killed)
Conclusion: With the deaths of many of the dragon players, the leaders of the Brotherhood of the Griffon, as well as several dragon princes of Murgh#333;m and dragonborn knights from Tymanther, travel to Dracowyr to confront Brimstone and force him to cancel the magic that bound wyrms to the game. Brimstone claims that the game was just a ruse to allow him to eliminate the most powerful dragons around the Sea of Fallen Stars. Even after Brimstone canceled the spell, nobody could be sure if the surviving dragon players would stop their Xorvintaal games.
For info about the Xorvintaal game, check its article on the wiki.
Sources:
The Brotherhood of the Griffon, Book I: The Captive Flame
The Brotherhood of the Griffon, Book II: Whispers of Venom
The Brotherhood of the Griffon, Book III: The Spectral Blaze
Vaasan invasion of the Moonsea
Moonsea, Thar (1479)
Important Battles:
-Invasion of Glister (Vaasan victory)
-Battle of Lendon's Dike (Defenders victory)
Conclusion: With their defeat at Hulburg, the Vaasan invaders are routed and retreat.
Sources:
Blades of the Moonsea, Book I: Swordmage
Cyricist attack on Thentia
Moonsea (1480)
Important Battles:
- Battle of Lasparhall
Conclusion: Harmach Grigor Hulmaster is slain, but the rest of the family survives. Shortly before Grigor's funeral, Geran Hulmaster is named Lord Hulmaster. In retaliation for the attack against his family, Geran Hulmaster travels in secret to Hulburg and secures the aid of Sarth Khul Riizar. Together, the two enter the Temple of the Wronged Prince and defeat Valdarsel, the priest who ordered the Hulmasters’ assassinations.
Sources:
Blades of the Moonsea, Book III: Avenger
The Second Sundering takes place in 1482-1487.
Second Shadovar vs the Dales and Cormyr War
Netheril, Sembia, the Dales, Cormyr, Cormanthor (1484-1487)
Important Battles:
1484
-Invasion of Archenvale (Sembia attacks the Dalelands and captures Archendale; Cormyr sends an army to protect the Dalesfolk. Netheril begins to attack Cormyr’s borders, forcing Cormyr into a fight on far reaching fronts)
-Destruction of Sakkors (The darkness over Sembia, caused by the Ordulin Maelstrom, starts to dissipate)
1485
-Bedine rebellion (The Bedine tribes rebel against Netheril as the Shadovar spread their forces thin against Cormyr and the Dalelands)
1486
-Siege of Myth Drannor (The elven city is under siege by the forces of Netheril)
-Attack on Marsember (The shadow fiends of Wheloon escape their prison and march on Marsember. The city is sacked by the Shadovar and Grand Duke Farninger Seasilver is slain)
-Siege of Arabel
-Siege of Suzail (Suzails walls are briefly breached by the shades. Although the shadow warriors kill many, not one of them is able to open the gates before being slain)
-Battle of the Forgotten Keep (War wizards close the portal within the Forgotten Keep, cutting of Netheril’s supplies in the region, breaking the siege of Arabel)
-Battle of Suzail (The Army of the Western Marches rides down from Arabel, crushing what remains of Netheril’s army at the walls of Suzail. King Irvel Obarskyr of Cormyr “dies in battle”. Not a single soldier of the Shadovar is spared. Once the siege of Suzail ends, both cormyrean armies quickly liberate Marsember)
-The Battle for Candelkeep (Netherese sleeper-agents among the monks of Candlekeep are activated and attack the other monks, only to discover that among these are agents of the Moonstars and Red Wizards. The wards of Candlekeep are destroyed, but their energies absorbed by Larloch)
- Second Fall of Myth Drannor (Larloch, the Netherese forces, and the Chosen of Mystra/elven defenders clash in a catastrophic battle. The Srinshee herself appears to fight for Myth Drannor, ordering the baelnorns to protect the Tree of Souls, and sacrificed herself to wrest magical power from both Telamont Tanthul and Larloch, then used the Wards of Candlekeep and the mythal of Myth Drannor to strengthen the Weave. As Elminster defeats Tanthul in a mage duel the Netherese enclave crash atop Myth Drannor. The survivors of Myth Drannor were rescued by the Srinshee (before she disappeared) and transported to Semberholme. While Thultanthar was destroyed, the barrier erected by the baelnorns around the Tree of Souls managed to save it and small parts of the city from destruction)
Conclusion: Netheril ceases to be as a political entity, the few survivors battling against the Bedine and the resurfaced phaerimm. The survivors of Myth Drannor begin to slowly rebuild the city. Raedra Obarskyr is crowned Queen of Cormyr. The Dales regain their independence and Sembia dissolves into independent city-states.
Sources:
The Sundering, Book II: The Godborn
The Sundering, Book V: The Sentinel
The Sundering, Book VI: The Herald
Brimstone Angels, Book III: Fire in the Blood
Sword Coast Adventurer’s Guide, p.17
War of the Silver Marches
Luruar, Many-Arrows (1484-1485)
Important Battles:
1484
-Attack on Port Llast (Port Llast is attacked by a force of drow led by Tiago Baenre)
-Attack on Kelvin’s Cairn (The dwarves of Kelvin's Cairn are attacked by a host of drow under the command of Tiago Baenre and Ravel Xorlarrin)
-Civil war in Many-Arrows (The rather moderate royal line of Obould is eliminated due to drow intrigues. The bloodthirsty Warlord Hartusk becomes the new leader of the orcs and agrees to an alliance with the drow)
-Siege of Silverymoon, Citadel Adbar, Citadel Felbarr and Mithril Hall
-Conquest of Sundabar (Sundabar is conquered by a orc army commanded by the warlord Hartusk and renamed Hartusk Keep)
-Battle of the Cold Vale (Bromm, one of the twin kings of Citadel Adbar, is killed by Tiago Baenre)
-Destruction of Nesmé (Nesmé is destroyed by an orc horde led by Tiago Baenre riding the white dragon Arauthator)
1485
-Battle of Midwinter
-Battle of Hilltop
-Battle of Silver Arrows
-Battle of Everlund
-Battle of Dark Arrow Keep (Bruenor kills Hartusk)
Conclusion: The War of the Silver Marches ends when Hartusk is killed by Bruenor Battlehammer and the Darkening is dispelled. Many-Arrows is forced to dissolve by the dwarves, and the orc horde is exiled to the Spine of the World. The League of the Silver Marches disbands in 1488 due to ill feelings among its members caused by failures during the war against the orcs.
Sources:
Companions Codex, Book I: Night of the Hunter
Companions Codex, Book II: Rise of the King
Companions Codex, Book III: Vengeance of the Iron Dwarf
Sword Coast Adventurer’s Guide, p.17
Battle for Gauntlgrym
Gauntlgrym (1486)
Conclusion: The dwarven forces claim victory over the drow in Gauntlgrym. King Connerad Brawnanvil of Mithril Hall is posthumously crowned 1st king of Gauntlgrym. King Emerus Warcrown dies while being proclaimed the 2nd king of Gauntlgrym. Shortly after Bruenor Battlehammer is crowned 3rd king of Gauntlgrym.
Sources:
Archmage
Sword Coast Adventurer’s Guide, p.61
Mulhorandi Rebellion
Mulhorand (1486)
Conclusion: The appearance of Chosen during the Second Sundering allowed the old Mulhorandi pantheon to manifest again on Toril and to come to the aid of their people, who had become second-class citizens in High Imaskar, and believed they had once more been enslaved by their ancient masters, the Imaskari. With the aid of the ancient wizard Nezram the World Walker, the Mulhorandi started a rebellion that ended with victory for the rebels. The surviving Imaskari fled to the Plains of Purple Dust or to extra planar safeholds. After that, the Mulhorandi gods remained as the rulers of the Mulan people, retaining the Imaskari laws that forbid slavery.
Sources:
Sword Coast Adventurer’s Guide, pp.12, 41
Brimstone Angels, Book IV: Ashes of the Tyrant
Tymanther-Unther War
Tymanther, Unther (1486-1487)
Important Battles:
-Siege of Djerad Kethendi (The Untherans are able to destroy the Kethendan Forward Regiment thanks to the demon army Gilgeam got from a deal with the demon prince Graz’zt. The dragonborn defenders resist, and the Untheran forces are unable to breach the defensive perimeter of the city)
- Siege of Djerad Thymar (The gods Asmodeus and Azuth chose the city to make a ritual that would allow them to be separate deities once again. Glasya sends a regiment of devils to take care of the pesky demons and make sure that they don’t bother Asmodeus, so she could ensure her position in the Nine Hells. With the devils and dragonborn joining forces against his demon army, and the last flares of the Second Sundering still threatening the field of battle, Gilgeam orders his human forces to retreat to Unthalass. The demon army is completely destroyed, lifting the siege of Djerad Thymar).
Conclusion: As part of a pact between Enlil and Asmodeus, the ancient Untherite god Nanna-Sin is resurrected as an immortal dragon turtle (instead of as a god, as Asmodeus took his divinity). Vivesh Nannari (aka Nanna-Sin) immediately destroys the Untheran navy surrounding Djerad Kethendi, allowing the dragonborn to lift the siege of the city. The Tymantherans win the Tymanther-Unther War with a decisive victory, and the Untherans are forced to flee from dragonborn lands, having retrieved just a few of their former territories.
Sources:
Sword Coast Adventurer’s Guide, pp.12-13
Brimstone Angels, Book IV: Ashes of the Tyrant
Brimstone Angels, Book V: The Devil You Know |
| PattPlays |
Posted - 10 Nov 2020 : 03:06:10
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
By the time of the "starting year" of the SCAG (1489), people of the Sword Coast was aware of the Cormyrian victory and the destruction of both Myth Drannor and Netheril, as well as the dissolution of Luruar. They knew of the conflicts in Vaasa, Tymanther/Unther, and Thay, but didn't knew their results, with the exception of the Mulhorandi rebellion, as they knew the Mulhorandi had won, but didn't knew details.
Thanks everyone for the responses. Though now I'm curious how the word of Ao is dispensed throughout the populace, and how info spreads about the declared end of an era. And how quickly and obviously is Mystra's full return (upon the climax of The Herald IIRC?) be to the people? I have my campaign set just before 1489 so I'm just curious.
as for the thread's topic.. are there any of those Abeir-Toril wars that still continued during and after the second sundering? |
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 09 Nov 2020 : 20:40:13
Master Zeromaru X,
I do wonder how efficacious that communication was though. Communication in modern times even is full of misdirection, lies, deception, and more. Keyholders to expenses involving private messengers, bribing bards, etc., could really skew what people did know, and more importantly, how they came to know it.
It sounds like it is time for a separate scroll! :)
Best regards,
|
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 08 Nov 2020 : 23:22:05
By the time of the "starting year" of the SCAG (1489), people of the Sword Coast was aware of the Cormyrian victory and the destruction of both Myth Drannor and Netheril, as well as the dissolution of Luruar. They knew of the conflicts in Vaasa, Tymanther/Unther, and Thay, but didn't knew their results, with the exception of the Mulhorandi rebellion, as they knew the Mulhorandi had won, but didn't knew details. |
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 08 Nov 2020 : 20:41:01
Learned Scribe PattPlays,
quote:
And for me I am less interested in the historical record aspect and more interested in the anthropological perspective. What does the average Faerunian level 1 adventurer know of the wars in the dalelands in 1480~? Do the average folk in the valleys outside of Waterdeep know and fear the floating literally-a-netherese-city that is waging war? How fast does info of it's demise spread? Stuff like that :O
Yeah, that is pretty interesting stuff. One would think that it would travel at the speed of a wagon, with speed limit set by trade. Though, you have bards, wizards, priests, and others that can travel fast while doing so with messages bearing truth, and some bearing falsehood. People in the Realms "civilized lands" as stated in the 3rd Ed. FRCS are literate. However, reading and writing do not mean well educated of course. So, as to your question of, what does quote:
...the average Faerunian level 1 adventurer know of the wars in the dalelands in 1480~?
, I gather virtually nothing.
Best regards,
|
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 08 Nov 2020 : 16:57:56
quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2
Master Zeromaru X,
I myself am going to focus on wars from 1370DR to 1384DR (as I don't do Spellplague), but this scroll is for 1370DR onward, which of course goes well into the 4e/5e zone. So, I'll be digging into some wars in that time frame soon.
Best regards,
Well, I'm more of an expert in the 1470s-1490s area, but I guess I can investigate anything from 1385 onwards, for completeness. |
| PattPlays |
Posted - 08 Nov 2020 : 16:31:46
And for me I am less interested in the historical record aspect and more interested in the anthropological perspective. What does the average Faerunian level 1 adventurer know of the wars in the dalelands in 1480~? Do the average folk in the valleys outside of Waterdeep know and fear the floating literally-a-netherese-city that is waging war? How fast does info of it's demise spread? Stuff like that :O |
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 07 Nov 2020 : 17:49:44
Master Zeromaru X,
I myself am going to focus on wars from 1370DR to 1384DR (as I don't do Spellplague), but this scroll is for 1370DR onward, which of course goes well into the 4e/5e zone. So, I'll be digging into some wars in that time frame soon.
Best regards,
|
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 07 Nov 2020 : 12:39:25
I was thinking of making a topic like this one, so count me in. As soon as I'm able, I'll start to update this stuff. |
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