| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Dargoth |
Posted - 12 Jul 2004 : 02:00:49
Just read a post over at Enworld by poster Gez
"Monsters of Faerūn: The Malaugrym are back!
FRCS: The Shades are back! Bane is back!
Lords of Darkness: The Daemonfey are back!
Unapproachable East: The Star Elves are back!
Underdark: The Imaskari are back!
Serpent Kingdoms: The Sarrukh are back!
Faithes and Pantheons: Orcus is back!"
Is it just me or is the Return of the X becoming an over used Cliche in the Forgotten Realms?
*Note a few of the above I support (The Return of Bane and to a lesser extent Shade) |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| The Sage |
Posted - 04 Apr 2006 : 05:38:43
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Well,
There are hints in 2e books that he could return since there is a few passages of text, but I forgot which book, that says some of his divine essance is still within people or places. I'd have to dig through the material, but I know it exists since I used it for a game once. :)
Volo's Guide to the Dalelands, as I recall, hinted that Moander wasn't entirely gone...
Yeah, that might be it. :)
It was... the section on the Darkwatch pretty much hints at the fact that the bound divine evil was breaking through the spell bonds previously holding it in place.
I seem to recall this mentioned elsewhere as well though...
|
| Kuje |
Posted - 03 Apr 2006 : 21:57:29
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Well,
There are hints in 2e books that he could return since there is a few passages of text, but I forgot which book, that says some of his divine essance is still within people or places. I'd have to dig through the material, but I know it exists since I used it for a game once. :)
Volo's Guide to the Dalelands, as I recall, hinted that Moander wasn't entirely gone...
Yeah, that might be it. :) |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 03 Apr 2006 : 21:36:23
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Well,
There are hints in 2e books that he could return since there is a few passages of text, but I forgot which book, that says some of his divine essance is still within people or places. I'd have to dig through the material, but I know it exists since I used it for a game once. :)
Volo's Guide to the Dalelands, as I recall, hinted that Moander wasn't entirely gone... |
| Beirnadri Magranth |
Posted - 03 Apr 2006 : 20:43:40
I think it makes more sense to have moander rise (being a god of corruption) rather than bane (god of hate etc.)
|
| Kuje |
Posted - 03 Apr 2006 : 18:13:12
Well,
There are hints in 2e books that he could return since there is a few passages of text, but I forgot which book, that says some of his divine essance is still within people or places. I'd have to dig through the material, but I know it exists since I used it for a game once. :) |
| khorne |
Posted - 03 Apr 2006 : 11:45:16
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase
1. He smells.
2. He smells really bad.
3. No, I meand really bad.
4. Really, really bad.
5. He killed Akabar! The Bastard!
6. Did I mentions he smells?
Seriously, I just don't like Moander, and I prefer my dead gods to stay dead.
Ditto. Moander got thumped good and proper, and he should stay that way. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 03 Apr 2006 : 02:09:03
quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase
1. He smells.
2. He smells really bad.
3. No, I meand really bad.
4. Really, really bad.
5. He killed Akabar! The Bastard!
6. Did I mentions he smells?
Seriously, I just don't like Moander, and I prefer my dead gods to stay dead. |
| Kajehase |
Posted - 03 Apr 2006 : 01:55:10
1. He smells.
2. He smells really bad.
3. No, I meand really bad.
4. Really, really bad.
5. He killed Akabar! The Bastard!
6. Did I mentions he smells? |
| Reefy |
Posted - 03 Apr 2006 : 00:25:52
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
I was glad, though, about the news regarding a certain Creeping God in Power of Faerūn  (I know that the Sage probably is, too  )
I'm not as keen on that one... I'd rather see him stay dead. 
Any particular reason why? |
| Beirnadri Magranth |
Posted - 02 Apr 2006 : 18:48:29
wait eldreth veluuthra and moander? how? why
? |
| The Sage |
Posted - 02 Apr 2006 : 17:50:45
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
I was glad, though, about the news regarding a certain Creeping God in Power of Faerūn (I know that the Sage probably is, too )
I'm not as keen on that one... I'd rather see him stay dead.
And normally, so would I. But as Asgetrion said above... I'm paricularly happy with these details because it works perfectly with an idea Asgetrion and I discussed quite a while back concerning the Creeping God -- an idea I'm developing for an article here at Candlekeep actually.
|
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 02 Apr 2006 : 17:41:42
quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
I was glad, though, about the news regarding a certain Creeping God in Power of Faerūn (I know that the Sage probably is, too )
I'm not as keen on that one... I'd rather see him stay dead. |
| Asgetrion |
Posted - 02 Apr 2006 : 15:48:34
I was glad, though, about the news regarding a certain Creeping God in Power of Faerūn (I know that the Sage probably is, too )
Since I have always assumed that there was, at least, a "seed" of his/its power imprisoned within Darkwatch, I have used this as an adventure hook in my campaign. Some members of House Floshin Fey'ri who have assumed guises of gold elves have courted the Eldreth Veluuthra to serve Moander (who appears to them as an ancient and forgotten elven deity, as George suggested)  |
| Asgetrion |
Posted - 02 Apr 2006 : 15:43:06
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by the psychotic seaotter
However I find that the trend of X evil returns and now Y race is a playable PC race is getting old. IMHO Bane should have stayed dead, sure Xvim could have ascended or something like that but not a Bane rezz.
Uh, Iyachtu Xvim had already ascended. He'd been a god for a few years when Bane re-emerged.
I liked Xvim a lot more than Bane -- I thought he had a lot better style, and was just plain a cooler evil god. But, as I said above, it could be argued that Xvim's history does lay the groundwork for Bane's return -- particularly the fact that Xvim woke up imprisoned under Zhentil Keep after the Time of Troubles.
I agree whole-heartedly with you Wooly - IMHO Xvim is a LOT cooler than Bane   I still haven't decided if Bane will ever return in my campaigns, and thus, Xvim will be around for at least some time yet
I felt disappointed at how Bane would just "step out of his son's body " and take over his portfolio and church. There was no real buil-up or mysteries linked to this, and this sudden "overnight re-emergence" just didn't feel right for me  |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 28 Mar 2006 : 02:20:38
Yeah, funny how it's all turning out like that - linked together I mean. You'd think people were doing it on purpose. Now where was that lore on the Ilythiiri ...
-- George Krashos
|
| Beirnadri Magranth |
Posted - 27 Mar 2006 : 20:29:57
hmm i agree (something like a global restoration/resurrection spell must have been cast!)
no jk
but i dont mind, the more the merrier!!
you know, though, the more i read about ancient history of faerun etc. the more everything seems to be connected from the get go... shades and sarrukh etc. and daemonfey are nearly directly related through the GSWS the netehr scrolls (i stick to my belief that vyshaan lords and siluvanedenn ppl had the nether scrolls)
it makes it so intersting |
| Xysma |
Posted - 07 Dec 2004 : 14:44:23
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As to the rest I could take or leave. However I only use what I want so I can largely ignore most of it. However it does take up precious book space.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think you hit the nail on the head. Not everything WOTC does is going to be great. They are in the stressful position of trying to please us old guys who have read all of the novels, while at the same time appealing to a whole new crowd. I think that's one of the reasons for all of the new playable races. Yes, star elves are ridiculous, and no, I would never play one. But, one of the guys in my group was excited about them, and couldn't wait to play one.
Bring back Bane? Sure, why not. Bane is a cool god. To be honest, I hope they bring back Bhaal, I've had hold-out clerics in our campaign trying to bring him back forever, it would be ok with me if they finally succeeded.
I just try to remember that for everything that I dislike about a book, there is someone out there who loves it. That's the great thing about the Forgotten Realms, you can pick and choose. There's so much magic, that anything can happen. We've had a Kender who fell into his bag of holding in Krynn and fell out in Faerun. Even with the multitude of playable races in the Realms books, people still want to try something new, or something beloved.
|
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 27 Nov 2004 : 18:39:54
quote:
Originally posted by the psychotic seaotter
However I find that the trend of X evil returns and now Y race is a playable PC race is getting old. IMHO Bane should have stayed dead, sure Xvim could have ascended or something like that but not a Bane rezz.
Uh, Iyachtu Xvim had already ascended. He'd been a god for a few years when Bane re-emerged.
I liked Xvim a lot more than Bane -- I thought he had a lot better style, and was just plain a cooler evil god. But, as I said above, it could be argued that Xvim's history does lay the groundwork for Bane's return -- particularly the fact that Xvim woke up imprisoned under Zhentil Keep after the Time of Troubles. |
| the psychotic seaotter |
Posted - 27 Nov 2004 : 15:39:11
True I have long decided having every thing Realms is a loosing task since you will possibly never get to use all the info. I tend to play mainly north of the Chionthar River. I know its a big area but alot of it remains undetailed or minorly detailed so you have a bit more to play with than other areas.
However I find that the trend of X evil returns and now Y race is a playable PC race is getting old. IMHO Bane should have stayed dead, sure Xvim could have ascended or something like that but not a Bane rezz.
I'm kinda divided over the Shade I have someting different going with them that I like a bit better but haven't really fleshed it out much.
It is nice to see Orcus back but I wish they would have given him more than just a listing in F&P.
The star elves are a bit much since I don't think we need another elven race running around there.
As to the rest I could take or leave. However I only use what I want so I can largely ignore most of it. However it does take up precious book space. |
| Sir Elton |
Posted - 28 Aug 2004 : 04:43:42
See!
This is precisely why I have my Realms right where I want them. The FRCS, Monsters of Faerun, Pool of Radiance II: Attack on Myth Drannor, Faiths and Pantheons, and the Silver Marches.
I don't need any more books to make my Realms more complicated than they already are. I have enough information to run campaigns in Shadowdale (2e Shadowdale from the 2e Realms boxed set), or the Silver Marches. I even have my version of Drizzt (a LG Githyanki who worships Mielikki, but I'm thinking of changing her over to Helm or to Hoar).
Besides, why have it all? Just focus on one region. |
| Reefy |
Posted - 15 Aug 2004 : 02:56:26
I can take most of the changes individually, but put together, the idea does seem to have been used rather a lot. The star elves and Orcus are the ones which irk me. As has been mentioned, the Realms is such a richly detailed setting, there ought to be plenty that can be written on existing subjects, groups, threats and the like. While I acknowledge things have to progress and evolve, progress for its own sake isn't necessarily a good thing. |
| Bakra |
Posted - 09 Aug 2004 : 17:39:20
I like to believe the reason for all the return from the dead is because the people in charge are or use to be fellow gamers. The reasons they are doing it is :
A) It is something they used in their own homebrewed campaigns and wish to share with the community
B) It is something they always wanted to do in their games but never did and wanted to turn it loose to the community.
C) It is the Marvel Theory (Not to be confused with the Marvel/DC Time Travel/Parallel Universes theory)
Of course we always come down to the bottom line in business, which is to make money so they can continue to be in business.
|
| Sarelle |
Posted - 17 Jul 2004 : 12:55:15
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
We've had enough returns, now let's have something new.
How about not?
How about we actually stick with the wealth that the Realms already offers before we try to fix something that doesn't need it?
...
That's part of the reason that I can accept the returns of Bane and Shade.
With Bane, if you look, you can see stuff that may or may not have been intended as groundwork for his return.
With Shade, they took a little throw-away bit in a years-old gaming product, and made it into a major plot. I should love to see them do more of that.
New ideas and new spins on old ideas, that's what I want.
This is part of my point too.
Ideal progressive FR, for me, would be
2 sixths Major-reference development (i.e. Cult of the Dragon),
3 sixths Minor- (sometimes tiny-)reference spin-off (i.e. Shade - because this is the best way for FR to be "new", and thus exciting, good for sales, and expandable by the author, whilst maintaining continuity)
1 sixth completely new stuff (and this would be split in half between small [2e norm] and big [3e norm] references - new stuff could just be a plot hook for 'Minor-reference spin-offs' to work from later). |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 16 Jul 2004 : 17:40:59
Indeed! Page 87 of The Winds of Netheril, from the boxed set, in the entry on Shade:
quote:
Residents of Imbrue, who had kept a wary eye on the enclave since the establishment of their church to Tyche, noticed that the enclave was pulled into a misty, shadow-filled dimension at a time that roughly corresponded with the fall of the other enclaves. Their fate was never revealed.
So while the groundwork wasn't exactly laid for Shade's return, it was a tantalizing little tidbit that could be built upon. And, as we know, it was built upon, with interesting results.
Though, to be honest, I was a little disappointed with one aspect of Shade's return. When 2E was unleashed, we had the Avatar Crisis to explain all the changes. When I first read about the upcoming return of Shade, I figured they'd somehow tie the changes of 3E into that event. The fact that they ignored perhaps the best chance to explain most of the changes to magic and such was a let-down. |
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 16 Jul 2004 : 16:55:22
quote:
Originally posted by Arivia
What bit was that? I've never heard of this before.
If I recall correctly, didn't some of the Nethril material first mention the Shade? |
| Arivia |
Posted - 16 Jul 2004 : 16:34:08
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
With Shade, they took a little throw-away bit in a years-old gaming product, and made it into a major plot. I should love to see them do more of that.
What bit was that? I've never heard of this before. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 16 Jul 2004 : 16:02:24
quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
We've had enough returns, now let's have something new.
How about not?
How about we actually stick with the wealth that the Realms already offers before we try to fix something that doesn't need it?
I perhaps wasn't clear with what I meant... What I was saying is that we've had enough of these many returns, so now I'd like to see something else. A new idea, if you will, rather than "okay, what dead god or lost race are we going to bring back this time?"
I quite agree with what you and The Sage said. There have been a great many things that should have been expanded upon, but were dropped instead. Perhaps the most notable one to me is the Manshoon Wars. Right there was some great potential for years of fun, but the FRCS barely considered it an afterthought. Ditto for the Harper Schism...
That's part of the reason that I can accept the returns of Bane and Shade.
With Bane, if you look, you can see stuff that may or may not have been intended as groundwork for his return.
With Shade, they took a little throw-away bit in a years-old gaming product, and made it into a major plot. I should love to see them do more of that.
New ideas and new spins on old ideas, that's what I want. |
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 16 Jul 2004 : 14:31:32
quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
Personally, whatever my other dislikes about The Rage, I'm glad we have the Cult of the Dragon coming back to mess with things, rather than have some kind of invasion of uber-dragons from another plane that are immune to the Rage because they use the Dragon Weave or something.
That's actually an excellent example of an FR author utilizing available resources rather than coming up with something new.
quote:
Of course, knowing WotC, it can always get worse.
Perhaps I'm just being naive, but I just don't get that sense from Richard Lee Byers' writing up to this point. I definitely think it will be an RSE, but I don't visualize him coming up with an ending that has a God return, a race lost coming back, etc.
I do see some character deaths. But, that Dorn guy has it coming with the way he's treating Kara. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 16 Jul 2004 : 14:26:00
quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
How about not?
How about we actually stick with the wealth that the Realms already offers before we try to fix something that doesn't need it?
Actually, I happen to agree with you, Bookwyrm.
The Realms, as a published setting, will be twenty years old in 2006. Now given that remarkable age (especially for a campaign setting), there is so much source material, and support information that has been published in many different formats that it is sometimes difficult for me to understand why we, as devotees of the Realms, are bombarded with so much new information.
When you consider this, it's such a shame that some of the more established aspects of the setting - such as the Cult of the Dragon as the Bookwyrm mentioned earlier - are overlooked in regards to newer material. Granted, it's often the newer material that "sells" the product to the average gamer, but the history of the Realms suffers as a consequence of this marketing process.
This reminds me of a discussion in the "General" section of the library, about good "dwarf" books. There are no stories within the library of FR novels. The same can be said of other demi-human races - like the gnomes and halflings - who have received very little in the way of attention in novels. It's not exactly the same circumstance I know, but it revolves around a similar problem... and that problem, is the "sales factor". It's what WotC know will make gamers go out and purchase their products.
So, while all of this is happening, the well established concepts (and races) are left to the imaginations of DMs (which, in itself isn't exactly a bad thing) to develop. For once, I would like to see WotC concentrate their FR design process on expanding upon material that has already some significant purchase within the setting, but has received little time in the spotlight, so to speak...
I'm sorry, perhaps that's all confusing... I'm tired, and am sorely in need of sleep...
|
| Bookwyrm |
Posted - 16 Jul 2004 : 09:29:21
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
We've had enough returns, now let's have something new.
How about not?
How about we actually stick with the wealth that the Realms already offers before we try to fix something that doesn't need it?
Personally, whatever my other dislikes about The Rage, I'm glad we have the Cult of the Dragon coming back to mess with things, rather than have some kind of invasion of uber-dragons from another plane that are immune to the Rage because they use the Dragon Weave or something. I could have done without yet anouther RSE, and simply have the Cult working behind the scenes to try to take over a country, but it could be worse.
Of course, knowing WotC, it can always get worse.  |
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