| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Markustay |
Posted - 15 May 2008 : 14:26:52
First off, I'd like to start by saying the Gremlins here are really getting annoying - my posts are 'timing out' far more then they are posting, and refreshing the pages is just as bad. The site has become practically unuseable for me. I hope not everyone has been having these problems - god knows that we need this place now that the 3e FR boards are being taken down over a WotC.
Now that my micro-rant is done, I'd like to address my latest realization about how badly thought-out 4e FR is.
Pluma magic was the only other magic beside Shadow magic that we know of that DID NOT rely on the Weave, ergo, Maztica should have been the least effected by the Spellplague. After all, they didn't even use the Weave over there, right?
So why the hell was it the hardest hit? 
It didn't just go 'boom', it got up and split town! 
So, not only didn't they think a century was enough time to make major changes with Maztica, and re-create it as something elegant and intuitive, but the reason that it's gone doesn't even make much sense!
Those poor little abused natives, who didn't know from Mystra and her Weave until the ebil Helmites showed up from Amn took the hardest hit from her downfall.
Go figure. 
I don't want this to turn into another 'bash 4e FR' thread, so any coments about what should have been done with Maztica? It was THE worst example of TSR derivitivness, so it did need an overhaul, but did it really need to be completely removed from Toril? How did everyone else feel about Maztica - I personally thought it was 'fixable', but maybe I am wrong here? |
| 28 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Seethyr |
Posted - 10 Jun 2010 : 01:45:40
Hello everyone,
I recently created a yahoo group called "Maztica Alive" where I would like fellow fans of the setting to come help inspire, create and share.
I've been working on some homebrew adventures set in Maztica and would love to share them with any who are interested. Please come check it out! I am primarily interested in creating "editionless" material that really can work into any age. In case D&D ever revisits the setting, I have also tried to keep it so that the new material would not conflict.
Check it out if your interested and say hi!
Group home page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MazticaAlive
Group email address: MazticaAlive@yahoogroups.com
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| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 10 Dec 2008 : 22:26:56
-In DRAGON #315- the one in which the older campaign settings were revisited- I know there were PrCs for Jaguar and Eagle Knights...In mentioning them, I believe that Pluma and Hishna magic were also discussed. When I get home after my D&D game tonight, I'll check it out. |
| Green Giant |
Posted - 10 Dec 2008 : 18:00:20
quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
Has anyone (official or unofficial) tried to adapt Pluma and Hishna magic (and magic users) to 3.x?
I've thought about using the artificer class from Eberron. Much of pluma and hishna magic seems to be about creating or enhancing items. Its just a matter of what materials you are using and the item's purpose that determines whether its pluma or hishna. |
| Brimstone |
Posted - 09 Dec 2008 : 18:45:17
I would have liked a Sentinelspire type scenario happening. The Dust cloud goes only so far to the west so people fleeing the destruction head to Maztica. Then they start hearing rumors of a landmass farther to the west that is populated by Dragon-men, and men of fire, air, water, and earth. Thus no Returned Abeir landing on Unther, and all of that nonsense. After 20 years things have calmed down on the main contenint. 50 years later people start to repopulate Faerun. 100 years later is when the campaign starts over. 
The Gods that die, die because of disruptions to their worshippers, not getting hit on the head with a stick no matter how symbolic it is supposed to be.
 |
| Alisttair |
Posted - 09 Dec 2008 : 17:58:08
Hmmm...I'm thinking a list should mayhaps be created and compiled of all the teams in the realms (if anyone has any ideas to add also)...that would require its own scroll though  |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 09 Dec 2008 : 16:30:45
-Dwarven basketball players...
-Well, at least they have the technical parts down, right? They don't dunk through, do they? Well, I'm still putting my money down on the Elven Elitists to win the division, and eventually, the championship. The Menzoberranzan Arachnids had the best chance of winning this year, but their star player went down, so... |
| Alisttair |
Posted - 09 Dec 2008 : 16:19:57
quote:
Originally posted by Dagnirion
-Have yuppies from Amn and Waterdeep play it, even though they're mostly no good at it, but act as if they were great?
My characters actually destroyed a temple to Tymora in Waterdeep after learning this game (by accident) so the dwarves of Moradin will start a league where the teams represent different Deities, so the Tymorans will start their own team. (the dwarven team are known as Moradin's Beards) |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 09 Dec 2008 : 16:09:49
-Have yuppies from Amn and Waterdeep play it, even though they're mostly no good at it, but act as if they were great? |
| Alisttair |
Posted - 09 Dec 2008 : 12:11:55
Now what am I gonna do with the "Ball Game" that came from Maztica??? |
| MirrorMirror |
Posted - 09 Dec 2008 : 01:25:36
Maztica was always one of my all time favorite areas of the Realms. I always wanted to develop (or see developed) an Inca type culture in the Lopango region of Maztica.  |
| Hawkins |
Posted - 30 May 2008 : 17:02:56
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Fair thee well, Maztica... we hardly knew ye.
Well said. (Not trying to get the last word in, just found this statement poignant and felt the need to acknowledge you for it). |
| Markustay |
Posted - 30 May 2008 : 04:27:19
Not Hindsight, yet.
probably more like regrets at this point.
Anyhow, I might as well end this thread on a sad note -
Fair thee well, Maztica... we hardly knew ye.
But you will be missed, regardless. |
| Hawkins |
Posted - 29 May 2008 : 20:58:27
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Alas... hindsight. <heavy sigh>
I believe that is still be seen as to whether or not WotC will recognize any hindsight on this issue. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 29 May 2008 : 20:08:16
quote:
Originally posted by MerrikCale
I must I never really cared one way or another about Maztica. Kara-Tur I loved and even kind of liked Zakhara, kind of. But Maztica I won't miss
I'd be the first to agree that Maztica as presented was pretty lame, but I would have preferred something awesome to have happened there (they had a hundred years!!!), rather then seeing the whole thing 'air-lifted' to Never-never land. 
Also, I used to be one of those Maztica 'haters', but once I studied the sources, there was a whole lot of potential there. But rather then bring the non-derivitive material to the forefront, they just harped on the derivitive crap until everyone hated it.
A 3e sourcebook, akin to SS or UE for the region, with new monsters, magic, cultures, and PrCs would have really made this region shine - by focusing on Ed's heartlands rather then all of the extraneous area of Toril, they missed out on what could of been a never-ending source of income for WotC. Instead of re-hashing old material over and over again, I think re-imagining areas like Kara-Tur, Zakhara, and Maztica could have been the much-needed 'shot-in-the-arm' that they profess 4e FR was designed to be.
Alas... hindsight. <heavy sigh> |
| Jamallo Kreen |
Posted - 24 May 2008 : 06:16:01
quote:
Originally posted by Ergdusch
I simply cannot think of anything positive to say so I just keep my mouth shut!
No comment!
The only reason to "shut up" is to save your own energy. From a consumer's perspective, there is nothing good to say about Reams.New.Coke.
In my campaign, word of Maztica's "discovery" won't reach the PCs until some time in late 2008 or 2009 (Gregorian), so I frankly do not care what idiocy Hasbro cooks up for it. They have well, truly, and completely and utterly lost me as a customer of new material, except for a few upcoming books written by writers whose work I like, and which may have legitimate Realmslore for Ed Greenwood's Forgotten Realms; if they don't, rest assured -- I will scream that fact far and wide.
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| MerrikCale |
Posted - 23 May 2008 : 03:49:09
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Maztica probably was "fixable", I agree. I don't have much else to say at the moment, but I'd also like to add that I'm having problems with the "timing out" too.
I must I never really cared one way or another about Maztica. Kara-Tur I loved and even kind of liked Zakhara, kind of. But Maztica I won't miss |
| Markustay |
Posted - 17 May 2008 : 16:41:35
I like that!
The Mazticans living in a Hollow World/Underdark scenario, with perhaps there 'sun god' floating in an immense cavern to give them light (sort of like a sentient Fireball/Demi-god). wasn't there one in the Mystara setting that would work perfectly? Nexcala or some such?
Anyhow, I've already linked the maztican drow to Tiamet Worship, some of which were punished and turned into Drider-like 'Scorpionfolk'. In RW mythology, Tiamet created the Scorpionmen, and I reasoned that the prefix "T'lin" was drow for 'Heretic' (It is used in the name of the Scorpionmen, T'lincalis, AND in the name of a Drow city that has turned from lolth). Plus, the Driders and Scorpionfolk having a rlated heritage appeals to me (they were the ones that turned from Tianmet to go back to Lolth, when the 'new' Drow arived from Faerūn). So Lolth has Driders, and Tiamet has the T'lincalis, both of which represent people who disappointed their god and were punished for it.
So, if I marry my musings to Steven's, I can come up with a pretty interesting Campaign area below whatever WotC plunks down on top of it.
Thanks for that. |
| Steven Schend |
Posted - 17 May 2008 : 14:23:48
Wanna have some real fun with Maztica? When its continent gets displaced, large pockets of Maztica (perhaps even including the Waterdhavian and Amnian colonies) drop into the Underdark, so they're now in a new environment with loads of drow and aboleth and all that....but their gods wish to keep them alive, so pluma/hishna get a bit of a power-up. The fact that the drow et al have never faced this kind of magic could be an interesting post-apocalyptic campaign....
Or you could borrow the D&D/Mystara Hollow World idea and shove anything no longer extant on the surface into the occupiable world at the core...where you might find Undermountain's original builders, a bevy of Uvaereni elves, and a few Netherese floating cities....
Yes, neither would be "the Realms," but they could be great fun nonetheless.....
Steven
stitching silver linings where he can |
| Markustay |
Posted - 16 May 2008 : 16:34:17
Nice suggestions, KEJr, and a lot of it jibes with my own imaginings for the region (especially the proto-dragon/Linorm thing for the north).
In the short-lived Maztica thread we had over at WotC, we came across some interesting tidbits, including the fact that at least two groups of Kara-Turrans were transplanted to Maztica, and that the Maztican culture actually came from Hepmonland in GH, rather then RW Earth.
Given that at least one group of Kara-Turrans were 'transplants' from Earth, according to sources, we can easily connect at least one of the two 'Interloper' groups to them, giving us our round-about way of some Mazticans coming from our world.
Personally, for what it's worth, I prefer to think of Hepmonland (GH) as the original source of the Mazticans, tracing them back to RW Meso-American cultures, and then tracing THEM back to Imaskari outposts (along with the ancient Egyptians). That whole thing plays into my casting the Imaskari as FR's version of the Goa'uld from Stargate. So, the cultural trappings (like pyramids) actually originated in FR's distant past, and then came full-circle and returned in Maztica.
What that also means is that the Egyptian Gods were really Incredibly powerful Imaskari Archmages who achieved godhood through worship, and who were then 'blocked' from coming home by their own people (who were frightened by what they had become). A little canon-stretching there, but I prefer that my FR interlopers all have some sort of past with FR. |
| freyar |
Posted - 16 May 2008 : 14:39:09
quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
Has anyone (official or unofficial) tried to adapt Pluma and Hishna magic (and magic users) to 3.x?
We did a hack job over at EN World when converting the lesser plumazotl and greater plumazotl. Here's what we said for them:
quote:
Pluma Magic: A greater plumazotl casts spells as a sorcerer of a level equal to its Hit Dice +2. It may cast spells from the Air, Animal, Magic, and Water domains as arcane spells. Pluma magic can only reproduce spells of up to 6th-level. For spells with material components, the plumazotl instead substitutes a feather of equal value (price based on rarity).
(Lesser plumazotls cast at CL=HD.) |
| Hawkins |
Posted - 15 May 2008 : 23:08:03
Has anyone (official or unofficial) tried to adapt Pluma and Hishna magic (and magic users) to 3.x? |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 15 May 2008 : 22:01:38
A couple of thing I would have done with Maztica over time (and who knows, I might run this direction myself if the PCs ever get over that direction).
1. Have a knock down drag out fight between the Companions of the One True Vision and the Vigilant Eyes of the Deity. I was actually hinting at this one with my last campaign, with a sort of crusade from Helm's paladins to clean up their Maztican branch, and the Maztican branch falling further into tyrannical influence.
At first I thought of having them fall under Bane's influence, but I think it might be even more ironic for them to eventually fall under Zaltec's sway, seeing themselves as the natural rulers of the Viperhand humanoids and trying to rally them as troops to "civilize" the rest of Maztica.
Dislodge them from Helmsport, have the Vigilant Eyes take over and work to make "Helm Bright," and have the One True Vision build a fortress in the wilderness where they are holed up with their Viperhand servants plotting revenge on the Mazticans and the orthodox Helmites.
2. Make sure the northern portion of the Maztican continent isn't as derivitive as the southern portion. My initial thought on this was to have the farthest northern reaches of the continent the home of the arctic elves that have been hinted at since 1st edition, as refugees that got stranded after the Sundering.
These elves are even more aloof, less "good" in outlook, and are constantly warring with the other left over in this region, a handful of powerful Linnorm from the Age of Dragons, exiled to this area by both the elves and the true dragons.
It gives a "hint" of a Norse feel to it, without cutting and pasting a Norse culture wholesale, and does something different with the northern reaches other than just saying this is where the FR equivalent Iroquois and other Native American tribes would live.
3. Have natural sorcerers becoming more common in Maztican society, with the return of Qotal. Mazticans have more magical might, divine casters, and they begin to either trade for metal weapons with the Faerun natives in the region, or they begin to use their natural magical talent to create versions of their native weapons that can still keep up with Faerun and Viperhand armor and weapons.
In other words, no more old 2nd edition, "poor backwards culture that can't compare to the psuedo European advanced culture," but rather, have them use maccas because they want to, and have some glasssteeled maccas that can bust into plate armor. Have them have sorcerers and some wizards that can throw fireballs with the best that Faerun has to offer, and reiterate that they didn't have these before because the time of Zaltec's dominance led to degeneration and a disconnection to their ancient heights of power.
Then you have the Mazticans dealing with the people of Faerun on an even keel, like the Kara-Tur and Zhakaran natives do, and you have a real percievable difference in the culture now that Qotal has returned to them.
4. Play up some links to where they may have come from, via portals, so that we get the same idea that we have in Faerun that the cultures that aren't native to Faerun and seem a lot like Earth cultures might not be native to Faerun, hence playing up the "Forgotten Realms" idea of Earth or Earth-like worlds being connected to Faerun in its distant past.
A few years back Dragon Magazine had a feature on Aztec/Mayan monsters, and one of them was a colossal reptilian "apocalypse beast" sort of thing. Perhaps the portal to their old world might open and let this thing in, and the last ties to their old world are cut by sealing the gate to keep any more of the apocalyptic creatures from arising again.
Also, once this gate is opened, you might have a nice chance to introduce some creatures from various sources that don't have an official home in Faerun. While I wrote a lot of "how this fits into Faerun" articles for the keep, I think one of the best places to put new races is to introduce them on Faerun's other continents. Thus, bhukas, asherati, and other higher fantasy, less Aztec/Mayan monsters could get introduced in this manner.
|
| Markustay |
Posted - 15 May 2008 : 19:31:57
I was hoping for something a little more Maztica-focused, but I suppose this was inevitable.
I didn't hate maztica, as much as I hated the trilogy about it. It was practically a verbatim rip-off of RW history. Even Kara-Tur did a little bit better then that (though not by much).
There was alot of little 'innuendos' in what little lore we had that could have been built upon, though. I think that they threw the "baby out with the bath water", as the saying goes.
I have NO problem with the idea of a Maztica makeover, but to just swap out continents like that defies plausibility, even for a fantasy setting.
Personally, I think as a Jungle homeland for wild Elves, dinosaurs (get them OUT of Faerūn proper!), and dragons would have been very cool, with lots of ancient ruins of lost civilizations (VERY FR, and they could have made them different, like Saurian or Giant civilizations from the past). XEndrik is a good example of what could have been done, or even Warhammer's Lustria.
If anything, they should have gotten rid of Chult (redundant, and not really fitting in with the other Faerūnian lands), and moved that sort of Tarzan-like environment over to Maztica. It could have been an explorer's dream. Now, they got rid of Chult and Maztica, so who knows what they were thinking? Mabe the new continent will be like what I imagine, with a better-developed Jungle setting... but then why get rid of Maztica at all? |
| Mace Hammerhand |
Posted - 15 May 2008 : 19:30:15
Actually, since I have had a fascination with Mayan, Incan, and Aztec history I really like Maztica. So it might have needed (stressing the might here) a little tuning, but all in all I was/am rather happy with that part of Toril, and my group has already declared interest in going there with the Faerūnian characters |
| Ergdusch |
Posted - 15 May 2008 : 16:48:08
I simply cannot think of anything positive to say so I just keep my mouth shut!
No comment! |
| Hawkins |
Posted - 15 May 2008 : 16:23:13
While saddening, I do not find this surprising; Halruaa, a nation/region that did not need any fixing to continue to fit into the Realms just got blown up, and the only reason I can figure is that the designers thought that it would be "cool." Also, Unther, another nation/region (like Maztica) that just needed some focused work to become "Realms-ified" also got transposed (to Abeir? or maybe just squished?) just so they could introduce the poorly named (or maybe designed? considering that they already had some critters with this name in the Realms) Dragonborn into the Realms while getting rid of an already established part of the Realms. My biggest problem is not all the Spellplague (as in the Death of Mystra on her home plane), but how they decided to implement it. The complete re-working of the face of Toril while keeping their favorite spots safe was unnecessary in every way. Many of the other things they did I would not have minded if they had done them in a logical fashion. Killing off AO (who many who see as TSR's implementation of an omnipresent, omniscient "God") would have explained the rearranging of the planes much more sufficiently, while also removing a "bad idea" from the TSR days that most people ignored anyways. Creating a story for how the 3e Dragonborn became the 4e Dragonborn, instead of ignoring previous lore (which they created 2 years prior to the release of the 4e FRCG with the release of Dragons of Faerun so they could fit the 3e Dragonborn into the Realms) would also have made a lot more sense. Also, Tieflings and Genasi already had pre-established origins in the Realms, so using the Spellplague to make artificial "new" one is just silly. Also, it would have made more sense to use the Spellplague as a tool to rework Kara-Tur, the Hordelands, Mulhorand, Unther, and Maztica into more Realms-ified versions of themselves instead of swapping/destroying them to make room for new places. But instead of making logical choices founded in current lore, they had to make choices that hard to choke down (in my studies of online research, online polls are actually more accurate than people give them credit for, so I think of this as fact) founded in their "new" lore that they decided was much more "cool." I am beginning to hate that word.  |
| Kuje |
Posted - 15 May 2008 : 16:12:37
See the thread in site content about the time outs. :( |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 15 May 2008 : 14:40:21
Maztica probably was "fixable", I agree. I don't have much else to say at the moment, but I'd also like to add that I'm having problems with the "timing out" too. |
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