| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Mace Hammerhand |
Posted - 31 Oct 2007 : 14:09:57
Since the other thread deals with the question, now you get the answer...well, we get the answer...
First off, when Karsus cast the spell that basically destroyed Netheril Mystryl recreated herself as Mystra, and if I remember correctly the Time-portfolio went the way of 3rd edition (please correct me if I am wrong there). Since time can be considered a stream which regular folks, and gods (?), perceive only at the moment it passes, and look back, Mystryl as the deity of Time as well as of magic should have been able to see Karsus's attempt to steal her power beforehand, and far more importantly the Time of Troubles and Cyric and Shar's assassination ATTEMPT.
Based on this assumption I would change events thusly:
Mytsra's Chosen are a key to Mystryl's backup plan. When Mystryl saw that the Weave and all of Abeir-Toril would be in danger should the events of the future succeed, she decided to "hardwire" a failsafe into her new incarnation: Mystra. Each and every being touched by Mystra in terms of being either the Magister or a Chosen, to a far greater extend, and every Weave-using being in general, to a far lesser extend, was in fact carrying with him a part of the Goddess, think of a zip-file splitted into major and minor chunks.
Thus: should the attempt succeed, an initial part of Mystryl inside one of her Chosen would start the process of "re-assembling" the goddess.
Mystryl also forsaw the eventuality of Chosen turning bad (like Sammaster) or using their goddess-given powers to intervene on everyone's behalf (like Khelben). The catch to all of this, however, was/is that even those "accidents" were part of her overall plan. To become a neutral deity again, Mystryl would have to see every aspect of the world. Mystryl knew that Mystra Mk II, to a far greater extend than Mystra Mk I, would be inclined to good, a situation that was totally unacceptable to Mystryl. It didn't matter whether a wizard died, became a lich, or a sharn, or whatnot, it all served Mystryl's purpose, even dragons, and shadow-weave-users relied on the weave, because to develop the shadow-weave, Shar had to use her own weave-given magic in the first place, thus making it succeptable to Weave influence, a fact that Shar was unaware of, and by the time it was created Shar did not know of Mystryl's actual knowledge of her plans.
Mystryl used Shar and Cyric like a tool to bring the Weave back into balance under a neutral deity, herself.
...more on this later... |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Basil the Geek |
Posted - 31 Jan 2008 : 04:56:21
This thread is almost exactly the same thought process I had a year back when making up my Xinlanal campaign in which the oldest of the Netherese Enclaves, along with the great mosque of Mystryl, are sequestered away to a closed and locked pocket plain just moments before the Netherese diaspora.
My role playing group desired I run a realms campaign that could go straight on past ludicrous speed to plaid and bring about the next time of troubles. I accepted the challenge and worked up a concept where Mystral knew her demise was coming and invested a portion of herself into a power key secreted away in the city. A few centuries, and a much changed Netherese culture later, the players have discovered everyone is invested with something called the “weave within” gifted to them by a long forgotten god.
Recently one player had an epiphany and put a bunch of clues together similar to this thread. He’s convinced the other players it’s in everyone’s best interest to uncover the truth and this Saturday they plan to dig around in the most run down, seediest and lethal part of the old enclave where the dilapidated and disused Mosque of Mystryl, with its one inhabitant, the repentant, guilt ridden and insane surrogate of Karsus awaits to blow their minds.
The players say the atmosphere of the game has been sort of a combination Logan’s Run/Paranoia with a little bit of Zardoz thrown in. Now if only they could sneak past the sentinels, get the city sentience to look the other way and bust out of the sequester into the Realms!
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| Mace Hammerhand |
Posted - 17 Jan 2008 : 18:16:52
Well, I'm pondering over writing up my re-imagined version of the events after 1375...or was it 1275? No, that was the next bus leaving...no...was it someone's birthday?
Ahh, hell, frak that...anyways, I'll get down and dirty with my version of the Realms during my vacation end of the month...so expect something around February...
It will handle some of the topics I touched in my RANTs (TM) in a serious, and for the setting much more respectful way than what the spellplague did. |
| Wyvernspur |
Posted - 09 Jan 2008 : 23:35:22
Man I should have read this post first. I like these ideas a lot.
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| Asgetrion |
Posted - 23 Nov 2007 : 01:16:01
quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
Good question... he played everyone... he deserves it :)
I agree -- I personally always liked Mask! :) |
| Mace Hammerhand |
Posted - 19 Nov 2007 : 08:13:02
Good question... he played everyone... he deserves it :) |
| Asgetrion |
Posted - 19 Nov 2007 : 01:01:47
Mace, would Mask actually gain the portfolio of Intrigue as Bane destroys Cyric? |
| Mace Hammerhand |
Posted - 18 Nov 2007 : 13:04:06
Here is my take on the events leading to Mystryl's rebirth...pt 2
Shar was aware of the imminent failure of her assassination attempt, but she didn't know that it would take shape in Mystryl's rebirth. What she did know is that something terrible was to happen (terrible to her), and she created a back-up plan. She enlisted the aid of Mask, who was more than keen on regaining the Intrigue portfolio. Mask joined ranks very quickly, and provided Shar and Cyric with the chance to enter Dweomerheart. However, being the sneak that he is, he not only informed Mystra of the plot, but also Bane, who was all too interested in expanding his portfolios as well.
When Cyric entered Dweomerheart he found Mystra waiting, prepared, and although he was aware of something odd going on, he proceeded with the plan. Mask, hiding in the shadows, saw a battle ensue which destroyed part of Dweomerheart, and in the appropriate moment he let Cyric know of a weakness in Mystra's protections, which was used immediately. At the same moment as Mystra "died", Bane entered torn Dweomerheart and destroyed a weakened Cyric.
Instead of the expected surge of magical influence, Shar's grip and power over the shadow-weave drained away, but no deity seemed responsible for the loss.
Mystra's Chosen, the Magister and every magic-user, sorcerer and wizard and weave and shadow-weave user alike, felt drawn to Karse, with them they took as many potent items as they could carry. At the place where Karsus, the seeming destroyer of Mystryl had fallen, they piled up the artifacts and waited. The Karse-stone (too lazy to look up the term) floated down from the heavens and settled before the assembled spell-weavers, and one by one, the magic-users felt a tingling when a part of them they hadn't known did even exist left them. Mystryl's essence left living and undead mage alike. Phaerimm and Sharn stood next to each other in trancelike harmony while before them the true Goddess of Magic returned to power.
Yet, all things considered, Mystryl had misjudged the "fail-safe" she was no longer LN but N, since so many and diverse creatures had given her rebirth. |
| Mace Hammerhand |
Posted - 12 Nov 2007 : 22:25:09
It's been a couple days, and I'm about to go to sleep, but I've been pondering the whole Cyric/Shar assassination attempt some more. Bottom line is this, I never really liked Cyric that much, so in my Realms, should I ever come to the point mentioned in GHotR, I'll give Cyric the axe. As to how this will happen...more on that when I'm more awake..
G'night |
| Jorkens |
Posted - 03 Nov 2007 : 07:15:29
Again, just brainstorming around what Mace says.
The idea of a reborn self-reincarnating goddess does not exactly go against the idea of a sacrifice. It is a common mythological trope. Here it would be tied to the element of instability and change in magic. The power of Mystra is uncontrollable in nature and she will act in numerous ways to foresee and "flow with these changes". In the eyes of human worshipers it might seem as a sacrifice, but to the divine it might just be another element of reality having its effect on the Weave and everything tied to it, giving the goddess a new form and a new presents of sorts. |
| Mace Hammerhand |
Posted - 02 Nov 2007 : 23:08:14
quote:
Originally posted by Aravine
I take something that direct at face value
I stand corrected, but have to point out that in Magic of Faerûn Mystryl sacrifices herself and is reborn as Mystra, which brings us back to my original point...
Let's end the discussion regarding her sacrifice... I like the idea of the whole plot within plot thing by Mystryl (otherwise I wouldn't've written it down here) and I don't wanna split hairs over an interpretation of the word sacrifice, let's just leave it at that and get back to the point...as I said before, if you don't like my idea, I can live with that |
| Aravine |
Posted - 02 Nov 2007 : 16:59:17
I take something that direct at face value |
| Aravine |
Posted - 02 Nov 2007 : 16:22:15
quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
quote:
Originally posted by Aravine
Because if you sacrifice yourself to save, in essence, the world, there needs to be something you lose. besides that think about the weave falling on someone. thats like getting hit with a Shrere of Annililation. your spirit is destroyed
Mystryl reincarnated herself as Mystra...there was no real sacrifice...
the FRCS specifically said she sacrificed herself. |
| Mace Hammerhand |
Posted - 02 Nov 2007 : 15:02:43
quote:
Originally posted by Aravine
Because if you sacrifice yourself to save, in essence, the world, there needs to be something you lose. besides that think about the weave falling on someone. thats like getting hit with a Shrere of Annililation. your spirit is destroyed
Mystryl reincarnated herself as Mystra...there was no real sacrifice... |
| Mace Hammerhand |
Posted - 02 Nov 2007 : 15:01:32
quote:
Originally posted by Dalmar Amad
quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
Thus: should the attempt succeed, an initial part of Mystryl inside one of her Chosen would start the process of "re-assembling" the goddess.
So how would this reassembling work? Like in Highlander?
That would mean all Chosen of Mystra/Mystryl would start to kill each other so that in the end there would only be one left with all of Mystryl's power turning into the godess?
Nah, I kinda thought it would be more like a gathering of power ... as if basically a part of Mystryl's essence would leave the host body to join with the rest... gathering motes of light so to speak |
| Aravine |
Posted - 02 Nov 2007 : 14:46:21
Because if you sacrifice yourself to save, in essence, the world, there needs to be something you lose. besides that think about the weave falling on someone. thats like getting hit with a Shrere of Annililation. your spirit is destroyed |
| Dalmar Amad |
Posted - 02 Nov 2007 : 14:31:17
quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
Thus: should the attempt succeed, an initial part of Mystryl inside one of her Chosen would start the process of "re-assembling" the goddess.
So how would this reassembling work? Like in Highlander?
That would mean all Chosen of Mystra/Mystryl would start to kill each other so that in the end there would only be one left with all of Mystryl's power turning into the godess? |
| Mace Hammerhand |
Posted - 01 Nov 2007 : 23:53:53
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
Trying to form my thoughts here.
Well, a combination of centers of knowledge with a varied and outspread net of individuals and minor enclaves of magic and knowledge would in my mind work best. That would preserve both the scholastic and the mystic side of magic and Mystras worshipers. Throughout the history of the Realms she has acted through a combination of clergy, individuals and groups of magic when it comes to spreading her dogma. The Realms has a relatively low density of magic colleges and large centers of magic, if one looks beyond tyrannical Thay and isolationist Halruaa
That's what I've been trying to say all along... get outa my head, Jorkens  |
| Mace Hammerhand |
Posted - 01 Nov 2007 : 23:52:53
quote:
Originally posted by Aravine
quote:
Originally posted by dalor_darden
I look at it like this:
if Bane can come back because he was "in" Xvim...
Then why in the seven stars can't the goddess of MAGIC come back
because there is a vast differance between sacrificing yourself, and being slain. it was sacrifice. that is the difference. she did a noble act. it's like aerith coming back in FF7. it kind of takes the importance of it. I like the concept, but I do think it takes the point of the sacrifice away.
Why does it diminish the sacrifice? Mystryl, if I understand her "chracter" correctly, was a very tough hardliner in many regards, plus she didn't sacrifice her existance, she merely reincarnated herself as Mystra mk I. If you ask me, a sacrifice is something final, and Mystryl weaseled herself out of that already. |
| Jorkens |
Posted - 01 Nov 2007 : 17:38:00
Trying to form my thoughts here.
Well, a combination of centers of knowledge with a varied and outspread net of individuals and minor enclaves of magic and knowledge would in my mind work best. That would preserve both the scholastic and the mystic side of magic and Mystras worshipers. Throughout the history of the Realms she has acted through a combination of clergy, individuals and groups of magic when it comes to spreading her dogma. The Realms has a relatively low density of magic colleges and large centers of magic, if one looks beyond tyrannical Thay and isolationist Halruaa |
| Aravine |
Posted - 01 Nov 2007 : 17:16:39
quote:
Originally posted by dalor_darden
I look at it like this:
if Bane can come back because he was "in" Xvim...
Then why in the seven stars can't the goddess of MAGIC come back
because there is a vast differance between sacrificing yourself, and being slain. it was sacrifice. that is the difference. she did a noble act. it's like aerith coming back in FF7. it kind of takes the importance of it. I like the concept, but I do think it takes the point of the sacrifice away. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 01 Nov 2007 : 16:26:52
Yeah, but it's easier to find files when they're all located on one server or on a single network. Scattering those files to lone machines in locations with little network access makes them much harder to access. 
It's like colleges or libraries... Sure, more knowledge in one place is more vulnerable, but more in one place attracts more people to it. With more people, it's ultimately spread out more than if only a handful of people can get to it. |
| Mace Hammerhand |
Posted - 01 Nov 2007 : 13:14:26
A secret mage-enclave sounds like a good plan, but I'd suggest it more a place of gathering knowledge and spreading it from there (Elminster, after all, as seen in The Temptation of Elminster, spread unknown magics on Mystra's behalf so that it could be found, again).
The reason why I said that a convergence of wizards would be disastrous to Mystryl's long term planning is based on real world information spread so to speak. If you have a very very very important file or document, and you save it only in one place (in this case Myth Drannor) and said place is destroyed you lose large bits, if not the entire file (I know that from experience, and if someone hadn't been able to restore my harddrive the work of a couple of years would have been lost for good!) That's why I said the mages had to be spread, Mystryl's plan was not to increase magical knowledge in general, but rather create as many copies of a split-zipped file as possible, thus increasing her ultimate survival.
When you know that your copies are spread among (unknowing) individuals throughout the world the chances of your ploy's success increase a lot. Plus, I daresay, Halruaa and Thay are virtual powerhouses of magic, with Halruaa being even more important than Myth Drannor in terms of magical research.
Mystryl's plan wasn't to increase and improve magical knowledge in general but to spawn as many copies of her "files" which would, ultimately, be impossible if everything conversed in one spot that is, if not exclusive, at least bound by the physical boundaries of the place. Lonely mage towers with wizards having two to five apprentices, who in turn would have two to five apprentices once fully educated, is a far safer way for the survival of magic. |
| Sian |
Posted - 01 Nov 2007 : 12:54:56
would also to some extend explain why Liira's Illusion around Selûne keeps funtioning even after she apperiently was killed |
| Dalmar Amad |
Posted - 01 Nov 2007 : 12:45:36
Maybe Mystryl ordered her followers to secretly found an enclave outside of Toril (Selûne? or some other rock in realmspace) that served as a place where mages could gather and research new ways of magic.
And whenever there was a major event like the Fall of Myth Drannor, the most innovative mages were approached beforehand so that they could join this enclave to further magical research(and get to safety).
This secret enclave, of course was to stay secret until Mystryl's return to power. So whatever happened to magicusers on Toril, her cause survived. |
| Ergdusch |
Posted - 01 Nov 2007 : 12:39:07
If you so like you could of course interpret the death of the first Mystra in a totally different light. Mystryl knowing the future events and ploting, and being actually a part of teh Mystra might have tempted/motivated the Mystra into confronting Helm in order to bring her plot along.... or something like that...
I did not think through every loophole here but just wanted to through my initial thoughts into this discussion. Like the idea of a neutral godess of magic alot.
Ergudsch |
| Caedwyr |
Posted - 01 Nov 2007 : 04:07:11
Or you could go with the Shadows perspective and argue that the fall of Myth Drannor would drive further magical research and discoveries in the long run, spurred on by the many magic seekers and adventurers and archmages who visited the ruins seeking treasure and lost magics, to combat the fiends, and to attempt the restoration of the city. Mystryl wasn't a good deity, so when playing a long game, a little suffering wouldn't be an issue. Plus, it would add a nice insight into how the actions of the deities, while they may seem incomprehensible do have a purpose. For immortal beings, I'd think that type of subtle long term scheming and planning would be a lot more common than has been portrayed. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 01 Nov 2007 : 01:41:09
quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
and many mages left the city before the fall ever came to pass thus spreading magic again
Well, yeah, the fall of the city would spread out the mages -- but then those mages would be relatively isolated from each other, and any further research would be thus limited. Having lots of mages in one area, though, leads to collaboration and the sharing of research. And with many mages in an area, it's easier for prospective mages to find tutors and training. |
| Mace Hammerhand |
Posted - 01 Nov 2007 : 00:09:18
quote:
Originally posted by Dalmar Amad
I have to agree with Wooly here. Just imagine to what heights magic could have been raised if Myth Drannor had prevailed.
Of course, Mystryl might have sacrificed Myth Drannor, knowing that with her return she would be able let mages reach even higher mastery of magic. 
That's the line of thought I was trying to get across... with the "sacrifice" she may have lost her queen but with her return it'll turn out for the better... she couldn't let anyone, including herself recreated as Mystra mk I, in on this scheme it would've resulted in the plan failing... plus she knew that Myth Drannor would fall...and many mages left the city before the fall ever came to pass thus spreading magic again |
| Dalmar Amad |
Posted - 31 Oct 2007 : 23:04:42
I have to agree with Wooly here. Just imagine to what heights magic could have been raised if Myth Drannor had prevailed.
Of course, Mystryl might have sacrificed Myth Drannor, knowing that with her return she would be able let mages reach even higher mastery of magic. |
| Hawkins |
Posted - 31 Oct 2007 : 22:21:20
quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
As I said in the "Realms re-imagined?" thread this is just my version of what is going to happen. Neither is this my "demand" to Wizards to do it my way... if you don't like it, fine with me. If you do like it, feel free to use it...it's not that I can claim any copyright on that stuff 
I was not trying to cause an argument, I apologize. That is just my two coppers worth on that subject. |
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