| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Sokar Rostau |
Posted - 28 Jul 2007 : 08:20:38
How would someone so inclined go about reviving a dead Lich? Even if it's not actually possible, what would someone that thinks it's possible need to do to, for example, revive Sammaster (assuming that hasn't been done already)?
In a similar vein, I'm not altogether clear on the function and uses of a phylactery(sp?), but what would happen if one was forged into the hilt of a sword for the purposes of hiding it? |
| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Jorkens |
Posted - 02 Aug 2007 : 07:56:38
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
Well, again some random musings; the soul of the lich would probably go to the negative material plane, or maybe Velsharoon (or Mellifleur, not realmsian though) will get control of the fragments. Curious, how is it with Mystra and liches, would there be a chance of evil liches going to the Realms of Mystra?
I'd say that, by default, lich (and other intelligent undead) souls act like mortal souls: they go to the afterlife offered by their patron deity. So yes, I'd have the souls of evil liches hanging out with Mystra. I'd not have them go to Velsharoon by default, since lich isn't a race or special breed of monster, it's something a mortal mage chooses to do.
I agree, especially as Velsharoon is one of the newer deities ( I also noticed that Mellifleur is mentioned as an alias). But, as he is the god of lichedom, evil liches and undeath, how does the relationship with the intelligent undead and the deity manifest itself? If a lich were to return to the prime material plane, would this not in some way have to involve Velsharoon, if nothing else as a "middleman" when petitioning Mystra? |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 01 Aug 2007 : 16:19:05
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
Well, again some random musings; the soul of the lich would probably go to the negative material plane, or maybe Velsharoon (or Mellifleur, not realmsian though) will get control of the fragments. Curious, how is it with Mystra and liches, would there be a chance of evil liches going to the Realms of Mystra?
I'd say that, by default, lich (and other intelligent undead) souls act like mortal souls: they go to the afterlife offered by their patron deity. So yes, I'd have the souls of evil liches hanging out with Mystra. I'd not have them go to Velsharoon by default, since lich isn't a race or special breed of monster, it's something a mortal mage chooses to do. |
| Ergdusch |
Posted - 01 Aug 2007 : 14:14:56
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Sokar Rostau
revive Sammaster (assuming that hasn't been done already)?
Sammy's phylactery was destroyed. He's not coming back.
Ya, right! Just because the author of some book said so, or what?! 
You are so easily fooled, Wooly! 
Now on the topic - Ihave no books at hand, but I would assume that no properties would be granted to a sword ONLY because it might contain the phylactery of a lich. Suppose the lich's phylactery is the pommle of the sword, than that pommle might register upon inspection as magically enhanced, most certainly necromantic and maybe also as evil (at least when it also contains the soul of the lich,which is it's sigular purpose, IIRC).
To "hide" the special property and purpose of the pommle a lich would therefore be wise and most certainly go about enhancing the sword in such a way that those pommle properties would be in the sword itself as well. That is - I would at least do it that way - the sword should have magical properties such as enhancement bonus (property: magic), spelllike abilities in necromancy (ray of enfeeblement, vapiric touch or the like) (property: nacromantic) and some evil property as well (cannot think of any right now....)
So far my musings on this. Hope that gives you some further ideas.
Ergdusch
Edit note: Nice idea BTW!  |
| Jorkens |
Posted - 01 Aug 2007 : 10:55:52
Well, again some random musings; the soul of the lich would probably go to the negative material plane, or maybe Velsharoon (or Mellifleur, not realmsian though) will get control of the fragments. Curious, how is it with Mystra and liches, would there be a chance of evil liches going to the Realms of Mystra?
The quest to find the liches soul would be long and hard. It would probably involve travel to the planes and sacrifices to gods or devils. Even then I have a feeling that the lich would be restored to mortal, not undead form. If undead it would most likely be some sort of ghost, not a lich. |
| Mortagon |
Posted - 01 Aug 2007 : 10:34:08
Where does the soul of a lich go when its phylactery and body is destroyed? Perhaps the soul is shattered and its fragments scattered around some plane or even multiple planes of existence. Then you'd have to find all the fragments, maybe you'd have to create a unique spell just to locate the pieces, and who knows what may have happened with them. They could have turned into some kind of unique monster or even have been bound by a soulmelder if you use incarnum in the campaign.
When you finally have gathered all the fragments of the lich's soul, you must create a new phylactery and find some way to repair the broken fragments. This task could require some sort of unique, probably epic spell. Alternatively maybe an incarnum user is needed to repair the soul.
You'd also need a new body for the repaired soul to return to, so that the lich can have some sort of physical manifestation. This is where you can be really creative and have the new body be that of a golem, dragon or even some sort of epic monster. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 30 Jul 2007 : 16:49:06
To restore a lich to a phylactery that's been broken? Nothing's ever been written up, but lets take some ideas. It shouldn't be easy, and thus why it wouldn't happen often.
How about that the phylactery has to be physically rebuilt from the original materials and must be returned to where it was previously destroyed. This would involve scrying out what happened to the original materials, and would likely involve using a divination spell on a single piece to find all the other pieces that have an "affinity" to it. This might also require some special repair spells. Next, an epic magic ritual should be completed to draw the pieces of the weave that previously held the item together back to the phylactery. With the phylactery back together, the next step would be to place a soul within the phylactery (one from a living being of a rough power level equal to the lich's.... or maybe a descendant of the lich before he became undead). Thus, the phylactery is baited. Finally, some kind of epic magic be cast to swap the trapped soul with the lich's soul. I really like the need for a descendant idea over the living being of a similar power level, although you may even mix both those requirements.
Anyway, its just an idea, but it sounds plausible. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 30 Jul 2007 : 15:58:50
That would be The Forgotten Terror adventure module.
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| Kuje |
Posted - 30 Jul 2007 : 15:43:38
Kartak plays a large part in the Castle Spulzeer module and the cross over module for Ravenloft, which is the "second" part of the modules. I can't recall the name of the Rloft module though. |
| At your Behest |
Posted - 30 Jul 2007 : 15:31:06
Victor, I have no books here but if I recall correctly there is a short (literally) entry on him in Lords of Darkness in the Twisted Rune entry.
There is a tad more on him in the free wizards download "Lands of Intrigue" that talks about recreation of his body, so I might have erred and he was not ressurected(to unlife...paradox anyway) but his body was only recreated...
Cheers,
AYB |
| Victor_ograygor |
Posted - 29 Jul 2007 : 20:14:18
quote:
Originally posted by At your Behest
I have no books here but I recall that the Twisted Rune resurrected Kartak Spellseer (?) "through several carefully worded wish spells".
So I guess that Jorken's ponderings could very well be true ( perhaps parts of the former body would also suffice ...).
Cheers,
Alex
Which book a you referring too ( Kartak Spellseer), i would like to read about this |
| Sokar Rostau |
Posted - 29 Jul 2007 : 16:03:03
I asked about the phylactery in the sword more to find out what the effect would be on the weapon and the wielder than anything else. Would the sword have a degree of sentience? would it do enhanced damage against Good or heal Undead? If it did have Evil effects could it be bound and reversed somehow, say by forging a ring into the pommel to channel and reverse any negative energy? The fact that it is hidden in a sword just gives reason to hunt the wielder down.
I mentioned Sammaster because this is a plot specifically involving the Cult of the Dragon, and I'm trying to figure out what is going on. I actually want to try and avoid most of the "big" name NPCs as much as possible, but the idea of someone trying to raise Sammaster seemed to make sense considering some other events in the plot. Another possibility I had thought of was that the sword contains something precious to a Dracolich (do they have phylacterys?) that the Cult is trying to retrieve.
I don't even know that it is a phylactery in the sword. All I know is that beneath the leather of the grip, forged into the metal, is an object that looks to be something like a large thin gem but on closer inspection is crystalline and possibly appears to have something within it. The person that wields the weapon does not (yet) know about it. All that is visible without unraveling the leather is the very tip of the "gem" that forms the pommel stone and has a band of gold, engraved with tiny lettering, around it. Perhaps it is even something far older than I have been thinking, creator races old. Basically the what, and the major groups involved, are fairly clear, but the why isn't. |
| Mandras |
Posted - 28 Jul 2007 : 18:55:27
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Sammy's phylactery was destroyed. He's not coming back.
Of course any DM has the power to decide that subject in his own campaign as he sees fit :)
Anyway, I believe Sammaster was slightly more than just a lich ...
Best Regards,
Mandras. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 28 Jul 2007 : 14:37:57
quote:
Originally posted by Sokar Rostau
revive Sammaster (assuming that hasn't been done already)?
Sammy's phylactery was destroyed. He's not coming back. |
| At your Behest |
Posted - 28 Jul 2007 : 13:52:29
I have no books here but I recall that the Twisted Rune resurrected Kartak Spellseer (?) "through several carefully worded wish spells".
So I guess that Jorken's ponderings could very well be true ( perhaps parts of the former body would also suffice ...).
Cheers,
Alex |
| Jorkens |
Posted - 28 Jul 2007 : 09:30:57
Well, if you could call the soul of the wizard in question back to Faerun there could in theory be a possibility of, with fragments of a phylactery (sp?)and other items previously owned and used by the lich, to magically restore some form of his being. I am not going by any rules here, just brainstorming I should add.
As for the phylactery, forging it into a sword hilt would not make much difference, except for it becoming rather random where the leach would return to. Again, I am not up to date on newer rules, so others would probably be better qualified to give you advice. |
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