| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Markustay |
Posted - 13 Jul 2007 : 19:34:20
Has any of this been covered before, in source or here the Keep?
I'm looking for a list of all possible ways to get a missive delivered, and if no list exists I'm thinking of either putting one together (another series fro the Compendium?), or at least compiling what little there is.
The only thing regarding this that I 'think' I remember is a guy on dragonback who delivers letters, but I might be thinking 3rd party here.
I also though this would be a nice additions to the services that Aurora provides, and she may be looking to expand her areas of interest do to the competition with all the Thayan Enclaves. |
| 23 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Wenin |
Posted - 24 Jul 2007 : 16:02:44
quote:
I hardly see Aurora's becoming the "the official mail delivery system" in the Realms.
I don't remember if anyone suggested it, but since I was the one that first brought it up, I only suggested that it would just be used, just as merchants are used.
quote:
I don't recall them having shops in every town or even a city, and thus (as Wooly pointed out) the "final leg" of the delivery would require hefty sums from the customers who would want to send packages (hiring "pony express"-type of riders and guards to deliver the letters/parcels to every village, town and hamlet around major settelements).
No more hefty than what one would be paying a merchant to deliver the same missive from the destination store and the missive's final destination. In the end the missive would arrive faster than if went via normal merchant the entire trip. Also the originating store can always refuse delivery to a destination that is just to far for them to feel comfortable to deliver the missive to meet the client's demands.
quote:
Consequently, since only the influential people (wealthy merchants, adventurers, nobility, priesthoods etc.) would have enough money to rely on this system, it would be targeted by bandits and evil organizations who would want to lay their hands on the missives (for example to read their contents - or to trap them with spells).
Yes this would be an expensive service, but imagining bandits staking out the stores for chance missive intercepts... I think that's a bit much.
quote:
I cannot see why Aurora (or her staff) would start bragging in public about it.
The availability of the well stocked exotic goods would become the talk of the town, also it is a good selling point to say that they can keep their shelves stocked even during the winter months. Their rival merchants would wonder where these shipments are coming from, even the "good" hearted merchants.
But as THO has already alluded to, something befalls the Aurora stores that makes them unsuccessful. |
| Asgetrion |
Posted - 22 Jul 2007 : 22:39:31
I hardly see Aurora's becoming the "the official mail delivery system" in the Realms. I don't recall them having shops in every town or even a city, and thus (as Wooly pointed out) the "final leg" of the delivery would require hefty sums from the customers who would want to send packages (hiring "pony express"-type of riders and guards to deliver the letters/parcels to every village, town and hamlet around major settelements). Consequently, since only the influential people (wealthy merchants, adventurers, nobility, priesthoods etc.) would have enough money to rely on this system, it would be targeted by bandits and evil organizations who would want to lay their hands on the missives (for example to read their contents - or to trap them with spells).
IMHO The Aurora "teleportation system" should be a *very* well-guarded secret, and even most secret organizations are not probably aware of it (thus how come a common citizen would know of it?). I cannot see why Aurora (or her staff) would start bragging in public about it. This, too, would draw the attention from many, many organizations and powerful individuals who'd try to grab them for themselves (charming/dominating members of the staff, using dopplegangers, or some might even try to kill Aurora and take over the whole system). |
| Markustay |
Posted - 21 Jul 2007 : 02:43:03
Okay, didn't want this to go this way. 
The way I thought of it, I figure the Aurora stores would include miissives in already scheduled teleports, at the price of say, 1GP per page. They are NOT responsible for pick-up or delivery of said missives, and they cannot interrupt the normal schedule. Even if someone had to wait a few days before another order got sent from Cormyr to Waterdeep, it would still be quicker then the normal channels.
Also, IMG I have developed a rivalry between the Aurora Stores and Thayan Elnclaves which are appearing in many of the same cities. Some items now go missing occassionally, and in one case the teleport 'pad' refused to work at all anymore. Aurora knows the Thayans are behind it all, but she lacks proof, hence her need for adventurers... 
quote:
Originally posted by Wenin
As for Eberron Lite.... umm Aurora's Catalog and their teleporting of their shipments was around a lot longer. If anything, Eberron is Forgotten Realms on crack. =)
 |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 19 Jul 2007 : 04:55:29
Well it appears hard for any merchant to profit except when buying from and selling to adventurers.
Teleportation adds cost without returning profit... Unless FR has a viable economic situation (something D&D does not). |
| Skeptic |
Posted - 19 Jul 2007 : 04:54:26
quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
But mechanized, demystified teleporting doesn't fit the Realms, however gracefully Ed tried to accommodate it in Volo's Guide to Waterdeep; I wouldn't use Aurora's in a campaign or as an example of magical trade in the Realms.
[Sadly?] Mechanized, demystified is what Teleport is under D&D 3.x. |
| Wenin |
Posted - 19 Jul 2007 : 04:41:01
hehehe cool
Maybe they didn't make all that much profit on that ale?! =) lol |
| The Hooded One |
Posted - 19 Jul 2007 : 03:53:15
You'll have to wait until SWORDS OF DRAGONFIRE comes out, I'm afraid, for Ed's "reason why" the Aurora's (and similar teleportational) networks haven't become the dominant mail or item-courier service in the Realms.
love,
THO |
| Wenin |
Posted - 19 Jul 2007 : 03:10:29
I'm not thinking of a AuroraEx mail system. I never even thought of anything more complex than a letter.
I'm just thinking of how what Greenwood described would be expanded to Aurora's, since her stores are centers of capitalism just like caravan merchants.
If Aurora can make a profit teleporting 2 gallon (10+ lbs) hand kegs of Saerloonian Glowfire selling at 5 sp, or a hand keg of Elminister's Choice at 14cp, I'm sure they can find a profit sending missives between Waterdeep and Suzail. Especially when you consider that it costs 280gp to hire a 7th level cleric to send 25 words.
quote:
Plus, there's additional costs to incur. What about insuring the more important parcels? How will the parcels be stored, at the destination, while awaiting final delivery? How does that final delivery take place? Even if the customer has to go to the Catalog store to retrieve the missive, how do you ensure it's really the correct recipient? Heck, how does the recipient even know it is there to be picked up? And if it's hand delivery, then you've got to hire someone to carry it to the right recipient, and you still have to ensure it's the correct person...
There is considerably more to a delivery service than just moving parcels.
Merchants that take on missives have to deal with these same issues.
As for Eberron Lite.... umm Aurora's Catalog and their teleporting of their shipments was around a lot longer. If anything, Eberron is Forgotten Realms on crack. =) |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 18 Jul 2007 : 04:17:33
quote:
Originally posted by Wenin
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Nope. Portals only go to one spot. Unless you've got an entire portal network at each location, then it may take several hops for something to reach its destination. With teleport platforms, stuff can pretty much be sent elsewhere.
That is perfectly understood, I don't know why you needed to address this information again.
Because I'm trying to point out that there is a difference in going straight from point A to point B, as opposed to having to go from point A to points G, F, Q, T, and E, before making it to point B. The latter (the portal network) requires a lot more planning than the former.
quote:
Originally posted by Wenin
quote:
Aurora's has already refused to transport individuals. It's not too much of a stretch to say that because of the tight schedules for shipping goods, they're not going to waste time on mailed goods. Handling the mail would require a lot more time and energy on their part, even if they don't actually deliver it. I just don't see it as being worth it -- because if it was, it likely would already have been done.
Transportation of individuals isn't really related, since the transportation of people would be done on the schedule of the customer rather than the schedule of your shipments. No one would wait several days for the next order to be sent to the central warehouse, in order to tag along. Also there is the whole issue of security, since the stores would be delivering people into the middle of the supposedly secret warehouse. =)
Ah, but if a passenger needs to go right now, then that disrupts the shipment of goods. To accomodate passengers, you've got to rearrange your schedule -- not the schedule of the passenger.
quote:
Originally posted by Wenin
I believe it is a stretch to use "tight schedules" as an excuse for Aurora's store to deny using their teleportation items as a mail system. The energy wouldn't require any more than what a normal merchant delivering the letter would involve, in fact it would require less time and energy. Keep in mind Aurora's Catalog stores would put the same exact limitations upon where they would deliver mail to as any merchant. They would only deliver mail via their chain of stores. Also keep in mind that the delivery of the mail would not be within a set time frame (2 day delivery guaranteed), it would be done as able. Meaning if the Waterdeep store wasn't needing to send orders to the central warehouse for a few days, the letter wouldn't be sent. Then when it is sent, the central warehouse may not be sending a normal order to the destination store for several days.
Again, though, any non-Catalog goods being sent through the network are taking up time, energy, and room that could otherwise be spent on Catalog goods. Sure, a single letter won't take up any extra room -- but what about a statue, or an entire stack of missives, or a trio of heavy tomes?
Plus, there's additional costs to incur. What about insuring the more important parcels? How will the parcels be stored, at the destination, while awaiting final delivery? How does that final delivery take place? Even if the customer has to go to the Catalog store to retrieve the missive, how do you ensure it's really the correct recipient? Heck, how does the recipient even know it is there to be picked up? And if it's hand delivery, then you've got to hire someone to carry it to the right recipient, and you still have to ensure it's the correct person...
There is considerably more to a delivery service than just moving parcels.
quote:
Originally posted by Wenin
In the end, I'm sure a missive would arrive far more quickly via Aurora's stores than if the letter was sent via a merchant caravan/bard on a horse/royal letter carrier. With the faster delivery time, and the store's good reputation, a higher price would be charged, allowing for a nice profit for very little effort.
Well, sure. But to make it worth their while, Aurora's would have to change quite a lot -- enough that it might be cheaper to just have a mage use an existing "telecommunications" spell.
quote:
Originally posted by Wenin
The only reason a DM wouldn't allow this system to exist is that they are not wanting to allow a fairly quick mail service to exist in their realms.... but in that case I'm sure the DM has already removed the Aurora's store to receive shipments via their teleportation platforms already.
I think the logistical reasons are good enough to kill the idea, even if a DM is willing to go "Eberron lite" and allow such a thing.
quote:
Originally posted by Wenin
Edit: As Faraer points out, his version of the realms wouldn't have the system. If he has the stores, they are simply receiving shipments like any other store, via caravans. Which, I'm sure they would still agree to deliver messages as the caravans travel through towns along their journey.
... And since that's already something some caravans do, then there's no need to involve Aurora's. Even if you do go this route, it's still not a good system: it either becomes too pricy, or it's too uncertain. |
| Wenin |
Posted - 18 Jul 2007 : 00:44:45
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Nope. Portals only go to one spot. Unless you've got an entire portal network at each location, then it may take several hops for something to reach its destination. With teleport platforms, stuff can pretty much be sent elsewhere.
That is perfectly understood, I don't know why you needed to address this information again.
quote:
Aurora's has already refused to transport individuals. It's not too much of a stretch to say that because of the tight schedules for shipping goods, they're not going to waste time on mailed goods. Handling the mail would require a lot more time and energy on their part, even if they don't actually deliver it. I just don't see it as being worth it -- because if it was, it likely would already have been done.
Transportation of individuals isn't really related, since the transportation of people would be done on the schedule of the customer rather than the schedule of your shipments. No one would wait several days for the next order to be sent to the central warehouse, in order to tag along. Also there is the whole issue of security, since the stores would be delivering people into the middle of the supposedly secret warehouse. =)
I believe it is a stretch to use "tight schedules" as an excuse for Aurora's store to deny using their teleportation items as a mail system. The energy wouldn't require any more than what a normal merchant delivering the letter would involve, in fact it would require less time and energy. Keep in mind Aurora's Catalog stores would put the same exact limitations upon where they would deliver mail to as any merchant. They would only deliver mail via their chain of stores. Also keep in mind that the delivery of the mail would not be within a set time frame (2 day delivery guaranteed), it would be done as able. Meaning if the Waterdeep store wasn't needing to send orders to the central warehouse for a few days, the letter wouldn't be sent. Then when it is sent, the central warehouse may not be sending a normal order to the destination store for several days.
In the end, I'm sure a missive would arrive far more quickly via Aurora's stores than if the letter was sent via a merchant caravan/bard on a horse/royal letter carrier. With the faster delivery time, and the store's good reputation, a higher price would be charged, allowing for a nice profit for very little effort.
The only reason a DM wouldn't allow this system to exist is that they are not wanting to allow a fairly quick mail service to exist in their realms.... but in that case I'm sure the DM has already removed the Aurora's store to receive shipments via their teleportation platforms already.
Edit: As Faraer points out, his version of the realms wouldn't have the system. If he has the stores, they are simply receiving shipments like any other store, via caravans. Which, I'm sure they would still agree to deliver messages as the caravans travel through towns along their journey.
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| Faraer |
Posted - 17 Jul 2007 : 01:55:01
References outside the Catalogue make clear that the transportation is via mage-cast teleport spells.
But mechanized, demystified teleporting doesn't fit the Realms, however gracefully Ed tried to accommodate it in Volo's Guide to Waterdeep; I wouldn't use Aurora's in a campaign or as an example of magical trade in the Realms. |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 17 Jul 2007 : 01:20:52
Well I have not iritated Big Al for a time , so adds a comment.
Portals and some teleport clearly appear to be the same to the none mage eye.
Teleport circle which can be made perm, clearly works like a portal. One steps in and then arives some place else.
An item that transports "orders are shipped to their respective stores" does sound like a programable teleport object. The statement that "Aurora's has already refused to transport individuals" does not mean her/his/its system can not transport individuals just does not.
Even some portals have a random result if I recall correctly. Portal and teleport are closely related and sometimes one looks like the other.
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| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 17 Jul 2007 : 00:01:25
quote:
Originally posted by Wenin
Thanks for the clarification.
The end result is the same when regarding their usability as a mail carrier network.
Nope. Portals only go to one spot. Unless you've got an entire portal network at each location, then it may take several hops for something to reach its destination. With teleport platforms, stuff can pretty much be sent elsewhere.
Aurora's has already refused to transport individuals. It's not too much of a stretch to say that because of the tight schedules for shipping goods, they're not going to waste time on mailed goods. Handling the mail would require a lot more time and energy on their part, even if they don't actually deliver it. I just don't see it as being worth it -- because if it was, it likely would already have been done. |
| Wenin |
Posted - 16 Jul 2007 : 23:27:22
Thanks for the clarification.
The end result is the same when regarding their usability as a mail carrier network. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 16 Jul 2007 : 11:09:39
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Aurora's Whole Realms Catalogue, pg.5 -
"My staff assembles an outlet's orders; then, using magical platforms of transportation, the orders are shipped to their respective stores."
A stationary magical construct that instantaneously transports things to far-away locations sounds a heck of a lot like a portal to me.
Not quite. Portals are doorways connecting two different spots. To move goods via portal, you have to physically carry them through the doorway to the single destination on the other end of the doorway. Teleport platforms, on the other hand, transport the goods upon them to any other spot, without anyone having to physically push them anywhere. So it's not the same thing. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 16 Jul 2007 : 09:17:36
Aurora's Whole Realms Catalogue, pg.5 -
"My staff assembles an outlet's orders; then, using magical platforms of transportation, the orders are shipped to their respective stores."
A stationary magical construct that instantaneously transports things to far-away locations sounds a heck of a lot like a portal to me. |
| Faraer |
Posted - 15 Jul 2007 : 18:54:41
Aurora's uses teleport spells, not gates -- a stable, uncontested Faerûnwide gate network would be even less plausible than the Aurora's set-up as published. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 15 Jul 2007 : 07:46:04
Thats what I was thinking as well, its a no-brainer for her to go that route (pun intended). 
Thanks for the replies, guys. I was mostly just wondering if there was any single specific business dedicated to this, or even something as local as a courier service in Waterdeep (no bicycles, though). |
| Wenin |
Posted - 14 Jul 2007 : 03:15:23
I wonder if Aurora's Catalog shops would play a part as well. They have portals connecting all the stores to a central distrubution center. They could easily make extra cash sending missives... and charge high prices for the fast delivery. |
| Faraer |
Posted - 14 Jul 2007 : 01:06:03
Spells like sending and farspeak are commonly used by mages and those who control mages, the latter (probably more than one spell) still yet to be written up.
Dragon mail -- using a sledgehammer to crack a nut. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 14 Jul 2007 : 00:37:17
And here is the aforementioned reply from Ed:-
"November 3, 2004: Hello again, fellow scribes. I bring Ed’s latest:
Blind Ranger, you’re quite welcome. Oooh, and a Lordship! Thank you, I’ll take very good care of it . . . I’ll just put it on this shelf over here, and . . . there we are . . .
There’s no “official” postal service in the Realms, with stamps and uniforms and suchlike, but all peddlers, minstrels, caravan wagon-merchants, trading coster offices, and caravan masters have traditionally taken verbal messages, written messages, and small packages (usually a canvas ‘purse’ sewn together and sealed against damp with pitch or sap before being sewn inside a second layer of canvas) for delivery to distant places, in return for quite steep fees (so common folk use such means only in emergencies). The cost reflects the fact that the delivery person may pay someone else, partway along the route, to do the last leg of the delivery, and still wants to make a few coins of profit after doing this. It would be rare to find any tangible message being delivered for less than a 6 gp ‘up front’ charge, unless it’s “just to the next village or two along” a shared road.
Heralds and court envoys regularly deliver official messages and royal communications, of course.
All priesthoods maintain a regular message service between temples (and can use spells to deliver short verbal messages ‘directly’), and often offer a cut-rate service to faithful worshippers (who have already given regular or substantial offerings to the temple) for including their messages along with the temple reports, written prayers and sermons, and holy decrees.
Lastly, shippers of large cargoes will often make several copies of a message for their intended recipient, and slip it inside crates or coffers that are then closed and sealed. Sometimes these are of the “If the finder of this delivers it unopened to Durth Merrilees of Merrilees Tapestries on the Way of the Dragon, Durth will pay a reward of 4 dragons” variety (this example obviously being for a message inbound to Waterdeep).
Note that this can take some time, and many messages never arrive. Note also that there’s really no such thing as privacy unless codes are used, because in many cases a ‘local village scribe’ does the initial writing for the sender, and anyone can open and read (or even alter) the message en route. Many folk employ ‘private codes’ of this sort: plain everyday writing, but certain phrases have a previously-arranged ‘private meaning’ (example: “Aunt Maerl continues to do well, and asks after you” really means: “Our investment scheme is flourishing, and that extra money you offered to put into it is now needed”) There are armed, experienced, mounted couriers within Cormyr and Sembia (operating only within the boundaries of those countries), because there’s enough wealth and population density to support such services. They typically deliver small packages swiftly and reliably, in return for 25 gp or more fees.
As for the general spread of information (news and rumors), it spreads by priests spell-talking to distant priests, via ‘wandering’ peddlers and minstrels and the Harpers, via trading costers, and with every ship and caravan (alert readers of my accounts of the Realms from 1979 onwards should recall what THO knows well: every arrival of a caravan to stay the night at the Old Skull spurred most of Shadowdale to turn out to “hear the latest” news).
There are even newspapers (“broadsheets”) published in many cities (see my Realmslore WotC website column for some details of those printed in Waterdeep), and these travel with all of the above. The arrival of a ‘new’ (sometimes seasons-old) broadsheet in a remote village is cause for a social gathering at the local tavern for the best reader to entertain everyone for an evening.
Thanks for the question, Blind Ranger, and keep ’em coming!
So saith Ed, who's enjoying spinning the Knights novel right now. I can't WAIT to read it. Sigh.
love to all,
THO"
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| The Sage |
Posted - 14 Jul 2007 : 00:34:06
The lack of a true and dedicated Faerûn-wide communications network makes most forms of communication between cities, and regions for that matter, difficult... though not impossible.
Bards can ferry messages, just like news, between their various stopover points, from various points of interest.
We shouldn't forget merchants and adventurers either. While not always as "reliable" as a news/message-carrying bard, merchants and adventurers from foreign lands are often easily able to access different cities and places around the Realms, making the transportation of messages and news fairly easy along well-travelled trading routes. Visiting more remote regions however, that don't often attract a lot of trade, may mean paying a few extra gold pieces to make it worth the merchant's effort to carry the message to the desired remote destination.
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| Kentinal |
Posted - 13 Jul 2007 : 19:50:32
There has been some discussion on the topic, IIRC Ed spoke on carevans carring letter, also running the realms discussion about setting up a pony express and how much it would cost. |
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