| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Jamallo Kreen |
Posted - 12 Jun 2007 : 21:05:20
quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen in "Forgotten Realms RPG Products," but never answered, so moved here, instead:
(I thought that I had posted this previously, but the Search function doesn't show it. In either case I have added a paragraph at the end.)
Daniel Rosenquist tells us (in The Imaskar Empire, here at Candlekeep) that southern steppe dialects are closer to ancient Roushoum than other dialects of the descendants of the Imaskari and their slaves, but that the southern dialects have "adopted much from Muhjuri." Given that the known Imaskarcana are rather fussy about how they ought to be addressed, what are (probably) the safest rules of pronunciation for Roushoum when dealing with Imaskari ruins and relics? Will someone knowledgeable about the Imaskari please let us know? This is going to be important to my players sometime soon. Heheheheheh....
(I have seen the pages on eastern languages in The Horde boxed set, and I have the Dragon Annual article on "Linguistics of Faerun," so, as far as I am concerned, be technical in your reply, if you feel it is necessary.)
Part the Second:
I happened to come across a quotation from Elminster published by some sage named Schend, which ends with these words: "Of course ye can only get answers from it if ye know the tongue of the Imaskari, for it only recognizes that tongue. There be only one Faerunian living or dead who might teach it to ye, and he's hardly the one to welcome you to a lesson while he wanders about the Underhalls...."
Be he Halaster Blackcloak, by any chance?
Apropos of dead Faerunians, would it be possible, through long and oft-repeated sessions of speak with dead, or some such thing, to interrogate some old Imaskari's remnants on Toril and so learn the niceties of Roushoum pronunciation? If so, I can see what a long adventure or three might be entailed in learning where such a one might be buried, verifying that s/he and his interrogator have at least one language in common, and making absolutely certain that the deceased's pronunciation isn't marred by a general decay of the organs of speech. (It would be sooo embarrassing to address one of the Imaskarcana and then discover -- too late! -- that the word "bwal" was spoken to it merely because the deceased informant's lips were a bit on the over-ripe side, and it had meant to say "ball!" I don't think that any of the Imaskarcana would be amused by such a droll little error....)
(Edit, October 2008: "Roushum" changed to "Roushoum.")
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| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Jamallo Kreen |
Posted - 17 Jul 2007 : 23:57:27
On pp 217-218 of Darkvision, Bruce Cordell says, "The words were an archaic form of the Imaskaran tongue that Ususi had assumed was remembered only behind the Great Seal."
If we accept that as canonical, then the Deep Imaskari almost certainly can pronounce Roushum in a dialect which the Imaskarcana can recognize. (I think of it as similar to the difference between "Church Latin" and Classical Latin -- mutually comprehensible, but with slight differences in pronunciation and vocabulary.)
As for El's comment, I think all three options are viable: (1) he didn't know about Deep Imaskar, or (2) he didn't consider them Faerunians, or (3) he was ... ah ... "bending" the truth to suit Mystra's purposes.
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| Jamallo Kreen |
Posted - 17 Jul 2007 : 01:38:20
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Maybe he meant to say "horny"... 
He's travelling with an Elfette who's a drunkard but won't put out ... I don't think so!
I'm on tenterhooks to find out what's in Adama's Tooth. I hopeI'll be able to finish Darkvision on Tuesday.
I'll try to refrain from any more comments or questions about Roushum (or geomancers!) until I have finished it.
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| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 15 Jul 2007 : 06:34:40
Maybe he meant to say "horny"... |
| Jamallo Kreen |
Posted - 14 Jul 2007 : 19:45:08
quote:
Originally posted by turox
quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
I'll check, Sage. I haven't my book at hand now. I hope that's not the class which has its practioners gradually transform into elemental monsters, earning "benefits" exactly like the curses acquired in Ravenloft. That seems an undignified thing for a dwarf do become! 
From the book page 41 As the geomancer progresses, however the effort to gathering magic through the earth takes a physical toll on him, making him more and more like the land and its creatures."
Thanks, turox. I have read the description in Complete Divine, but I haven't finished Darkvision; so please don't post any spoilers here, folks(!), yet I couldn't help noticing that Prince Monolith casually mentions the word "horn" in relation to the Dwarven geomancer. A Dwarf with antlers ... too creepy!
(And yes, yes, I know that there is a difference between a "horn" and an "antler," but a geomancer might wind up with either. *sigh* ... Our hero with antlers like Cyric's Chosen or with a unicorn horn ... it's not how I would picture either Gimli or Bruennor Battlehammer -- nor Sleepy, Dopey, Grumpy, or any other Dwarf!)
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| turox |
Posted - 12 Jul 2007 : 23:09:36
quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
I'll check, Sage. I haven't my book at hand now. I hope that's not the class which has its practioners gradually transform into elemental monsters, earning "benefits" exactly like the curses acquired in Ravenloft. That seems an undignified thing for a dwarf do become!
From the book page 41 As the geomancer progresses, however the effort to gathering magic through the earth takes a physical toll on him, making him more and more like the land and its creatures." |
| Jamallo Kreen |
Posted - 12 Jul 2007 : 21:54:00
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
Off-topic, is there a write-up somewhere of the "geomancer" as portrayed in Darkvision? It's nothing like the prestige class of the same name in the Complete Whateveritscalled.
The Geomancer PrC was updated to 3.5e in Complete Divine.
(snip)
I'll check, Sage. I haven't my book at hand now. I hope that's not the class which has its practioners gradually transform into elemental monsters, earning "benefits" exactly like the curses acquired in Ravenloft. That seems an undignified thing for a dwarf do become!
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| The Sage |
Posted - 12 Jul 2007 : 01:01:24
quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
Off-topic, is there a write-up somewhere of the "geomancer" as portrayed in Darkvision? It's nothing like the prestige class of the same name in the Complete Whateveritscalled.
The Geomancer PrC was updated to 3.5e in Complete Divine.
quote:
If there is such a write-up, would someone please direct me to it? (Or is it substantially the same as the "Earth Caller," but with a name which may have been lost in an editorial shuffle of different product lines?) But: *No spoilers on this scroll, please!*
I'm not entirely sure. I'll defer this question to other scribes who may be more well-versed in Realms/D&D rules-related questions, than I currently am.
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| Jamallo Kreen |
Posted - 11 Jul 2007 : 18:57:04
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Jamallo, I believe you mean Darkvision. 
Yes, you're quite right. I realized my mistake when I got home, but haven't been online since then to correct the error (which I've now done).
It's really a "good read!" I regret having to put it down, even though I'm going through it in 30 page blocks. I hope that there will be an Imaskari history or adventure book coming from WotC soon. I've heard that the Arcane Age novel line didn't do to well, but I, personally, would love to see a trio or quartet of novels (by experienced Realms novelists, please!) covering the Imaskari rise, their seizing of the Mulan, their defeat, and their retreat (with perhaps a final book bringing them in 1375).
Off-topic, is there a write-up somewhere of the "geomancer" as portrayed in Darkvision? It's nothing like the prestige class of the same name in the Complete Whateveritscalled. If there is such a write-up, would someone please direct me to it? (Or is it substantially the same as the "Earth Caller," but with a name which may have been lost in an editorial shuffle of different product lines?) But: *No spoilers on this scroll, please!*
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| The Sage |
Posted - 08 Jul 2007 : 01:14:13
Jamallo, I believe you mean Darkvision.
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| Jamallo Kreen |
Posted - 07 Jul 2007 : 18:53:46
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Now that I think about it though, not even Deep Imaskar would be pronouncing the words the same after 4000 years.
I agree--languages evolve over time, and I don't think that should be different for the Imaskari.
I just started reading Darkvision, and in the second or third chapter Ususi reflects that "ancient" Imaskari she finds on a monument may differ from what she knows (and she knows a lot -- a regular Vaarsuvius, in fact). The inscription, incidentally, roughly translates to, "Authorized personnel only. All others keep out ... or else!" -- very Imaskari, no?
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| Brian R. James |
Posted - 07 Jul 2007 : 00:44:53
I knew you would be the one to pick up on that comment Markus. But for now all I can say is... NDA |
| Markustay |
Posted - 06 Jul 2007 : 17:35:12
Thats got to be a hint. 
I thought I've read EVERYTHING on Ra-Khati (there isn't all that much, except for whats in The Horde and the three modules set there, but I don't remember ANYTHING about that!
Did Devayam finally succeed?  |
| Brian R. James |
Posted - 04 Jul 2007 : 15:25:19
If you wish to learn ancient Imaskari, head east to Ra-Khati and make peace with the undead legions that occupy that nation.  |
| Kuje |
Posted - 04 Jul 2007 : 06:12:29
No prob. :) |
| Ayunken-vanzan |
Posted - 04 Jul 2007 : 05:35:14
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
The info starts on page 135, in the Kuraltaar the Demonshield write up. It expands, and clarifies, on what Steven wrote so many years ago in the Undermountain module and on the FR mailing list.
Thank you for that info. I have searched DoF for myself but was able to find the relevant chapter which belongs to a part of the book I havn't read yet.  |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 04 Jul 2007 : 00:11:13
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Now that I think about it though, not even Deep Imaskar would be pronouncing the words the same after 4000 years.
I agree--languages evolve over time, and I don't think that should be different for the Imaskari. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 03 Jul 2007 : 03:33:33
Thanks for the quick reply.
I started to reread it from the beginning. |
| Kuje |
Posted - 03 Jul 2007 : 02:07:35
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Yes, it's Halaster and this was finally answered, without being vague, in Dragons of Faerun.
Where?
The info starts on page 135, in the Kuraltaar the Demonshield write up. It expands, and clarifies, on what Steven wrote so many years ago in the Undermountain module and on the FR mailing list. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 03 Jul 2007 : 01:38:46
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Yes, it's Halaster and this was finally answered, without being vague, in Dragons of Faerun.
Where?
I have that tome but do not remember anything about Halaster other then the stuff under Iryklathagra, "Sharpfangs".
Also, there were several Imaskari 'Survivor States' - Solon and Ra-Khati, not to mention Mulhorand itself. The Mulan probably spoke the 'slave tongue', and Solon was said to speak a different language entirely (Devic, which was most likely the language of the Mar), and Ra-Khati is said to speak Shou (at least now). Even so, the Tuigan all speak different dialects of Imaskari.
Now that I think about it though, not even Deep Imaskar would be pronouncing the words the same after 4000 years.
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| Jamallo Kreen |
Posted - 28 Jun 2007 : 01:54:00
Thank you to those who've replied. My e-mail was backed up and I haven't seen the responses until today.
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| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 13 Jun 2007 : 00:10:08
Elminster could have known about them, and failed to mention them because either a) he thought it was better to leave it a secret, or b) he didn't consider them Faerūnian. |
| Ayunken-vanzan |
Posted - 12 Jun 2007 : 23:29:12
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
But, I would expect that you could also learn it from the folk of Deep Imaskar.... if you knew they existed, which Elminster doesn't seem to know (or isn't going to let on about).
As far as I know, nobody in Faerun is able to think of an Imaskari surviver state since the great seal still lets anybody on Toril or any adjoining plane that the Imaskari are all utterly gone. So maybe even Elminster does not know about this particular city unless Mystra somehow protected him against the overwhelming suggestion effect of the great seal. |
| Kuje |
Posted - 12 Jun 2007 : 22:27:45
Aye, but at the time that passage was written, Deep Imaskari didn't exist. :) |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 12 Jun 2007 : 22:07:33
But, I would expect that you could also learn it from the folk of Deep Imaskar.... if you knew they existed, which Elminster doesn't seem to know (or isn't going to let on about). |
| Kuje |
Posted - 12 Jun 2007 : 21:33:54
Yes, it's Halaster and this was finally answered, without being vague, in Dragons of Faerun. |
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