| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| VonRaventheDaring |
Posted - 10 Mar 2006 : 03:37:39
I have to say that the recent topic of discussion on the Sage board got me to thinking. What are all the missing dormant or unclaimed Portfolios that are out there and of the major ones who would you think or say should hold them? I mean Time weither it is missing or dormantly held by mystra only ed knows for sure. (yes much akin to saying only god knows)But regardless do you think she should have it still, or if not who should have it. My personal belief it a seperate god should hold time perferably neutral in alignment,as time much like the weave is very powerful and dangerous to be messed with. And mystra has a lot on her plate as is shadowweave and all. I think Sleeping/dreams and nightmares should go to the sleeping god Auppenser fits to my addled mind. As for the rest well i will decide on those as we get to them!  |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Kuje |
Posted - 20 Mar 2006 : 05:54:55
quote:
Originally posted by scererar
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by scererar
FRCS page 238, shows the elven god Erevan Ilesere as having chaos, elf, luck, and trickery. could the change between editions have changed mischief to trickery?? All of the races pantheons within the FRCS, describes show one of their respective god's as having this portfolio, for humans it is Cyric.
Those are his domains. :) Page 239 shows his actual portfolios.
Well that just shot my whole 2E, 3E theory didn't it  Scererar runs off to read his FRCS again 
:) For some reason, a lot of people get those two things confused and I'm not sure why, exactly. |
| scererar |
Posted - 20 Mar 2006 : 05:41:38
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by scererar
FRCS page 238, shows the elven god Erevan Ilesere as having chaos, elf, luck, and trickery. could the change between editions have changed mischief to trickery?? All of the races pantheons within the FRCS, describes show one of their respective god's as having this portfolio, for humans it is Cyric.
Those are his domains. :) Page 239 shows his actual portfolios.
Well that just shot my whole 2E, 3E theory didn't it Scererar runs off to read his FRCS again |
| The Sage |
Posted - 20 Mar 2006 : 05:38:58
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
Were the stars portals to the plane of Radience? Or were they holes in the sphere wall? Sigh. It's been too long since I've read Spelljammer. I know the stars were tied into it somehow.
Yes, they were portals that connected to the Plane of Radiance but they are also writings on the crystal shell/sphere.
The "stars" in both Realmspace and Krynnspace were portals to the Plane of Radiance.
Whereas in Greyspace... the stars were embedded jewels in the crystal sphere.
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| Kuje |
Posted - 20 Mar 2006 : 05:32:18
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
Were the stars portals to the plane of Radience? Or were they holes in the sphere wall? Sigh. It's been too long since I've read Spelljammer. I know the stars were tied into it somehow.
Yes, they were portals that connected to the Plane of Radiance but they are also writings on the crystal shell/sphere. |
| Kuje |
Posted - 20 Mar 2006 : 05:29:01
quote:
Originally posted by scererar
FRCS page 238, shows the elven god Erevan Ilesere as having chaos, elf, luck, and trickery. could the change between editions have changed mischief to trickery?? All of the races pantheons within the FRCS, describes show one of their respective god's as having this portfolio, for humans it is Cyric.
Those are his domains. :) Page 239 shows his actual portfolios. |
| scererar |
Posted - 20 Mar 2006 : 05:09:44
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
Were the stars portals to the plane of Radience? Or were they holes in the sphere wall? Sigh. It's been too long since I've read Spelljammer. I know the stars were tied into it somehow.
And Erevan Illesere is the elven god of mischief (the only one I can find in Demihuman Deities; oddly enough, the halflings don't have a god of mischief). This doesn't help with the human pantheon, though.
FRCS page 238, shows the elven god Erevan Ilesere as having chaos, elf, luck, and trickery. could the change between editions have changed mischief to trickery?? All of the races pantheons within the FRCS, describes show one of their respective god's as having this portfolio, for humans it is Cyric. |
| Hoondatha |
Posted - 20 Mar 2006 : 04:54:43
Were the stars portals to the plane of Radience? Or were they holes in the sphere wall? Sigh. It's been too long since I've read Spelljammer. I know the stars were tied into it somehow.
And Erevan Illesere is the elven god of mischief (the only one I can find in Demihuman Deities; oddly enough, the halflings don't have a god of mischief). This doesn't help with the human pantheon, though. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 19 Mar 2006 : 17:46:20
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
I figured but I reference the trilogy more then that sourcebook since the trilogy is better. :)
'Tis very, very true. I consider F&P to be a pale shadow of the trilogy of god books.
As I've pointed out before, another uncovered portfolio is mischief. |
| Kuje |
Posted - 19 Mar 2006 : 16:52:36
quote:
Originally posted by nbnmare
Come to think of it, she is the goddess of the stars in Faiths & Pantheons too ;).
I figured but I reference the trilogy more then that sourcebook since the trilogy is better. :)
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| nbnmare |
Posted - 19 Mar 2006 : 16:46:57
Come to think of it, she is the goddess of the stars in Faiths & Pantheons too ;). |
| Kuje |
Posted - 19 Mar 2006 : 16:37:54
Selune is the goddess of the stars as well, according to Faiths & Avatars. :) |
| nbnmare |
Posted - 19 Mar 2006 : 15:22:17
In 2nd Edition at least, the "stars" visible in Faerun are actually portals to the quasi-elemental plane of Radiance. |
| Volo |
Posted - 19 Mar 2006 : 09:46:46
This gets me to thinking.... There's a goddess of the moon, Selune, there's a god, or at least there WAS a god, of the sun, Amaunator, but is there, or has there ever been, a god/dess of the stars? I can imagine a god of Starlight being a VERY strong supporter of Valkur and Shaundakul, as stars are used in navigation, and of course on good terms with Selune, but who is it? Or is this another open portfolio? |
| VonRaventheDaring |
Posted - 12 Mar 2006 : 05:29:24
Speaking of Amaunathor he also claimed the time portfolio once, of course i believe it stated that he didn't actually control it just kinda wanted it for himself  . I understand your point on the dream thing wooly but as it has a plane of existance and i think that if Auppenser is a sleeping god he could (should) dream why would he not add it to his portfolio i mean he needs all the power he can get right now. So its weak i mean so what i mean Auzuth is kinda repeatitive, and so are some of the other gods they are diverse. I also think though that Auppenser would be a god of Knowlage/learning under Oghma as well as mystra for magic kinda a dual pantheon god. As for the fact that others can control dreams so others control death i mean a deity doesn't have to get kelmore's permision to kill you do they. But hey i mean if you don't like it and think its weak thats cool i appreciate your opinion. After all this is ed's world and we just all play in it!  |
| Kuje |
Posted - 11 Mar 2006 : 21:43:15
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Nemes
In the module Four from Cormyr(p79), there's a little mention of a long forgotten god of time (Chronos, Kronus or Karonis). Was he an aspect of another god or a sleeping/dead god. Was he post Amaunathor or pre-Amaunathor. Any other mention of him?
Lord Nemes
Demihumans Deities tells us that those are just other names for Labelas. :) |
| Lord Nemes |
Posted - 11 Mar 2006 : 21:08:06
In the module Four from Cormyr(p79), there's a little mention of a long forgotten god of time (Chronos, Kronus or Karonis). Was he an aspect of another god or a sleeping/dead god. Was he post Amaunathor or pre-Amaunathor. Any other mention of him?
Lord Nemes |
| Hoondatha |
Posted - 11 Mar 2006 : 21:02:43
The only reason I bring it up is that there was rather a lot of chaos involved in the Time of Troubles, and the ascension of Mystra 2.0. It's possible that a portfolio might have slipped away from her (this might be what happened when Mystral died; no diety would go after her prime portfolio, but hangers-on might be fair game). If Bane had survived, I would have expected him to try some sort of power play like this. And, since there's been no definate ruling on who has the Time portfolio currently, it's an open question.
Personally, I haven't thought it through enough to have an opinion on Time and Mystra 2.0. I just thought I would bring it up for disucssion. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 11 Mar 2006 : 18:06:02
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
I haven't read Netheril in a while, but I thought it said in the section regarding time portals that Mystryl developed them to control time travel, using her power as deity of magic and time (among others), and that Mystra 1.0 decided not to make any changes to this system when she ascended. That would seem to suggest that she retained at least some power over the Time domain.
That's why I say Mystra 1.0 held the Time portfolio.
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
But even if Mystra 1.0 had Time, there's no guarantee that Mystra 2.0 has it now. If she had it, Mystra 1.0 seemed to not pay much attention to it, and it might have slipped out of her control upon her death. And of all the gods, I like Labelas getting it the most, since he's already a diety of time.
Why wouldn't she have gotten it? She replaced the previous holder of the portfolio, so it should have gone to her. |
| Hoondatha |
Posted - 11 Mar 2006 : 06:09:30
I haven't read Netheril in a while, but I thought it said in the section regarding time portals that Mystryl developed them to control time travel, using her power as deity of magic and time (among others), and that Mystra 1.0 decided not to make any changes to this system when she ascended. That would seem to suggest that she retained at least some power over the Time domain.
But even if Mystra 1.0 had Time, there's no guarantee that Mystra 2.0 has it now. If she had it, Mystra 1.0 seemed to not pay much attention to it, and it might have slipped out of her control upon her death. And of all the gods, I like Labelas getting it the most, since he's already a diety of time. |
| Sarta |
Posted - 11 Mar 2006 : 03:00:41
I kind of wince whenever I see mention of the time domain. I guess it comes from reading so many cleric write ups in the old min-max forum on Wizards that were based on the cleric having time and metal as their domains. Evidently, Grumbar encourages min-maxers.
I think it is very appropriate to the Three-faced Sun heresy, another rather small group.
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| TheHermit |
Posted - 10 Mar 2006 : 22:58:21
I'm speaking entirely from memory, but if I recall correctly, the 2nd Edition supplement Chronomancer (my copy is currently in storage) mentioned Deneir and Oghma as gods of history and time, and it would be their agents who dealt with any meddling about in the time stream. I think that Mystra's Chosen were given certain immunities to time-related magics as well. |
| ericlboyd |
Posted - 10 Mar 2006 : 17:25:02
I agree, it's pretty unclear at the moment, and I'm not sure I'd want to be definitive about it until some future project (I have nothing in mind) called for it. (In other words, leave room for further development.)
That said, as an unofficial suggestion for campaigns that need to know immediately, I have a vague recollection that it might have ended up in the hands of Labelas Enoreth, depending on whether you see the human kingdom of Orva being a Netherese survivor state. I also see longevity and "the moment" being mirrors of each other, so this impacts who acquired the portfolio of the original Simbul in the Yuir pantheon.
--Eric |
| The Sage |
Posted - 10 Mar 2006 : 16:02:57
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Eric, usually, doesn't just forgot about things like that. If Midnight/Mystra was supposed to have it, he should have added to her entry. :)
Agreed... though I can only see Eric actually adding the portfolio during that time for completeness sake.
quote:
So, I stand by what I said: Eric usually doesn't make errors about the deities like ignoring or forgotting that the time portfolio just isn't connected to any Faerun deity and so I still say it's unclaimed.
Which again, suggests to me the possibility that it may be revealed at a later point or has simply been held back for reasons currently unknown to us.
As is it... I'm more inclined to accept what we've now established as "plausible fact" until we have heard otherwise. I'm content to believe that the Time portfolio is currently unclaimed in the human pantheons... it's largely supported by the lore and we've seen nothing to suggest otherwise at this point.
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| Kuje |
Posted - 10 Mar 2006 : 15:50:30
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
It does seem strange... though perhaps it's still to be included. Or it was held back because WotC have other plans...
Eric may have other ideas for the portfolio itself... something that couldn't be explored properly in the material for F&P or LEoF and so held back on it until it could be treated completely.
But then why wasn't it at least mentioned somewhere in the deity trilogy of 2e? That's where my amazement stands. We have info about Amaunator's belief that he had the portfolio of time in Faiths & Avatars and yet it's not shown to belong to Midnight/Mystra and all it says, in Amaunators entry, is that Mystryl was the one that actually owned it.
Eric, usually, doesn't just forgot about things like that. If Midnight/Mystra was supposed to have it, he should have added to her entry. :) So, I stand by what I said: Eric usually doesn't make errors about the deities like ignoring or forgotting that the time portfolio just isn't connected to any Faerun deity and so I still say it's unclaimed. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 10 Mar 2006 : 14:34:19
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Maybe we need to bring Eric or Ed into this to see what they have say. However, I'm a bit amazed that Eric just happened to forget or ignore that the time portfolio for the Faerun pantheon was unclaimed and that he never detailed that anywhere, if it was meant to be claimed. It seems a bit out of place that he didn't detail it because of the amount of research and material that he has written about the deities, especially since Amaunators entry in the deity trilogy also discusses Amaunators instance that he had the time portfolio when in truth, Mystryl did, and that passage is also detailed in the Netheril box set. Looking at the Netheril box set, a lot of the Netheril deities lost portfolios but I'm not sure if any of them are unclaimed.
Again, shrug.
It does seem strange... though perhaps it's still to be included. Or it was held back because WotC have other plans...
Eric may have other ideas for the portfolio itself... something that couldn't be explored properly in the material for F&P or LEoF and so held back on it until it could be treated completely.
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| Sir Vengeance |
Posted - 10 Mar 2006 : 09:16:33
Wouldn't it be better that some new alien god to the Faerunian pantheons hold the portfolios of time and timelessness and other portfolios that no god had taken up yet. It would be fun to change the balance the Pantheons. |
| Kuje |
Posted - 10 Mar 2006 : 06:02:26
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I don't see why Mystra 1.0 didn't have it -- she was a reincarnation of Mystryl, so anything Mystryl had, Mystra 1.0 should have had. Again, I think the failure to list it is more a recognition of its non-importance than anything else.
My problem with this, Wooly, is that the original Mystryl had other portfolios that were claimed by other deities after she died. Some examples are: Invention, song, spellcasters, spring, etc.
So why would the portfolio of time be singled out and as we can see, the first Mystra didn't have all the same portfolios that Mystryl had even though the original Mystra was a reincarnation of Mystryl.
Shrug.
Maybe we need to bring Eric or Ed into this to see what they have say. However, I'm a bit amazed that Eric just happened to forget or ignore that the time portfolio for the Faerun pantheon was unclaimed and that he never detailed that anywhere, if it was meant to be claimed. It seems a bit out of place that he didn't detail it because of the amount of research and material that he has written about the deities, especially since Amaunators entry in the deity trilogy also discusses Amaunators instance that he had the time portfolio when in truth, Mystryl did, and that passage is also detailed in the Netheril box set. Looking at the Netheril box set, a lot of the Netheril deities lost portfolios but I'm not sure if any of them are unclaimed.
Again, shrug. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 10 Mar 2006 : 05:51:14
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
I disagree, the original Mystra never had it according to 1e lore and neither does Midnight/Mystra according to all 1e/2e lore, and it has been unclaimed among the Faerun pantheon ever since Mystryl died.
That is true... and I suppose, it is the more correct interpretation given how the original Mystra is the crucial point for both positions -- and given the lack of any lore stating otherwise.
I don't see why Mystra 1.0 didn't have it -- she was a reincarnation of Mystryl, so anything Mystryl had, Mystra 1.0 should have had. Again, I think the failure to list it is more a recognition of its non-importance than anything else. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 10 Mar 2006 : 05:49:22
quote:
Originally posted by VonRaventheDaring
Okay now while that is a valid point Wooly i hope i may call you wooly I have to say the reason that i think dreaming would work for Auppenser is more than just that he is dreaming i mean dreams are part of your psyche and in D&D they do more than just process your day i mean think about it for a minute. I also have to say that you would gain something from it i mean dreams are significant to many people and can teach you things about yourself an aspect of a enlightenment that has auppenser all over it to me, as for sleeping being his portfolio i mean then if not a god of that and i remind you the Greeks had a god for it! Then i'll ask you why have a god of death i mean death happens to all things in nature why a god of death. Or for luck or anything for that matter. I mean just think about it for a minute. Auppenser fits well into sleeping and dreaming due to the more serine and meditation nature of the god himself. Just my opinion on it that all but i do appreciate your feed back on it, and look forward to future deliberations/debates on this matter.
Going to the bathroom is also a part of nature. No god is grabbing that portfolio... 
When I think of being serene and meditative, I associate that more with knowledge -- and ditto for enlightenment. That would tend to throw those portfolios in another direction...
But even if he did grab those portfolios, I still don't see anything coming of it. Sure, some people believe dreams have a point. Some people don't. And most people forget their dreams as soon as they wake up. I just can't see any power coming from something that is natural but almost entirely disregarded. It's like hiccups, it's just something that happens.
Besides, dreams can be manipulated by magic and by other deities... That also speaks against anyone having control over it. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 10 Mar 2006 : 05:40:20
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
That is true... and I suppose, it is the more correct interpretation given how the original Mystra is the crucial point for both positions -- and given the lack of any lore stating otherwise.
At the very least... the absense of any Time portfolio among any pantheons (excluding that held by Grumbar) indicates that there is currently no true emphasis of the Time portfolio on Toril at this point.
Labelas is really the only deity, that I can think of, that has time as a portfolio. Who knows, maybe he claimed it after Netheril fell. :)
Agreed. I was thinking mainly in the human based pantheons though... where Grumbar worship has some purchase.
Thought Labelas is just as effective if racial pantheon boundaries aren't a consideration for this.
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