| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Beirnadri Magranth |
Posted - 17 Jan 2006 : 02:33:32
As some sages might know , I've been interested in the history of the Nether Scrolls. Obviously my quest for knowledge led me to researching Windsong Tower of Myth Drannor (Cormanthor) since it is the current location of the only known complete set of the Nether Scrolls.
Heeding the advice of one Mareka on these forums , I went ahead and downloaded the PDF "Cormanthyr: Empire of the Elves" from the WoTC website. Now, on page 157 on the book (158 on the PDF version) there is a description of the actual complex known as Windsong Tower. I have some questions about the descriptions. Also, the problem I have is that the description doesn't physically make sense. I'm not just talking about some rooms on the inside being larger than they are on the outside but im talking about...
There are "four items of interest" from the outside. No visible entrances exist.
1- Windsong Tower, a 4-story stone tower.
2- Shadowsong Tree, a magically-altered Shadowtop tree north of the tower,"that held a 3-story building within its trunk and branches".
3- Windsong Aerie, the "3-story 50-foot-high external tree dwelling nestled among the branches of the great oak.." south of the tower "...that linked all of the buildings' top levels by wide rail-less spans of wood".
4- Tower Fence, surrounds the complex, "its solid silver g-foot-high spikes held aloft by interweaving arcs of silver carvings of lightning, fire , ice and snow, wind and even small simulations of various 'hand' spells".
(I'm trying not to breach that rule about quoting directly too much but... since it is necessary for the question and it is free I figure there's no harm done)
ok... so
Is the 2nd feature a building inside of the trunk of the Shadow top? This would make sense since even before being altered with magic the trees are 10+ ft diameter at their base. If so, then the tree would be over 90ft. tall (the normal adult height of the tree according to the FRCS). Maybe the building is inside the tree and branches hollowed out... hmm.
What is an "external tree dwelling" exactly? Is the Windsong Aerie just a building perched in the branches... like in Dinotopia etc.? Is the building 50ft. tall or is the "great oak" 50ft tall? are these wide wooden "spans" like catwalks? are the built or grown out of branches? If there are only 2 entrances (we'll get into this more later) then what is the use of connecting the tops of all the buildings.. what top-levels would exist on a building that was inside a tree? Does it only connect the top level of the Windsong Tower?
I can't even fathom what someone was trying to express with Tower Fence. Where I come from 'g' is not a number... unless the fence is 1,000 feet high! 
'There are only two external portals by which to enter the complex'
1- An illusion-covered archway is at the base of Windsong Tower. It moves from clockwise during the day, following the sun and moon (East at dawn). "Entrants... know to approach this entrance invisibly along vertain paths." bc the courtyard is full of spell traps etc.
 I don't haev a problem with this description of the front door. Sounds cool actually! but...
2- "The other entrance is an invisible open ramp that arcs from high up in the tree directly west of the [Windsong Tower] down toward the southern most balcony along Windsong Aerie..."
If that was all it said I would only be a little confused...
If the balcony is where the entrance is then some one could just fly up to it etc. Why would you start out on that tree? If it is the "southernmost balcony" then not only does the Aerie have more than one useless balcony with no entrance, but the ramp would have to curve around the aerie to reach that side!
But that's not all that was said!!
-"any who climb the aforementioned tree and step off a particular branch 30 ft. above the ground will fall onto the ramp and find themselves as invsible as the ramp itself."
So, the this ramp that, "arcs from high up in the tree" must first jump down to it from a branch that is "30ft. above the ground". This doesn't seem like it is very "high up" in any kind of tree I know... except maybe a cherry, maple or  haha a dogwood tree! Anyway if you got to the branch above it why not just go to it? anyone?
-"This ramp alone led to an illusion-cloaked stairwell and entrance at the center of the roof Windsong Aerie"
Wait! So, what happened to it 'arching down to the southern most balcony'?????
- "The other external visible ramps are simply blinds or areas upon which birds or other forest creatures nest"
OoOh... The forest creatures who bypassed the spell traps...
Is it just me or does this description suck???   
hahah ok I'm cutting my rant short because I'm eagar to hear replies and because im probably going to start exceeding someone's bandwidth with the amount of Smilies I've used
p.s. serious replies are appreciated! |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Beirnadri Magranth |
Posted - 23 Aug 2008 : 19:51:06
Well I think they could be left there because of limited time but since the diviners who predicted the fall of Myth Drannor were based out of Windsong Tower I would imagine they were left there because of how secure it is. I mean those artifacts are arguably the most powerful in Faerun. I didn't look it up but I pretty firmly believe the scrolls were only allowed to be studied by the trusted elite within the academy and judging from elven culture its not likely they would share the contents of their vaults with every wizardling's apprentices who came to town. Again I'd have to go back to Cormanthor to be sure...
There aren't alot of places on the prime material plane where the Drannorians would feel comfortable leaving such an artifact aside from one of their most secure vaults of the time. |
| Ashe Ravenheart |
Posted - 23 Aug 2008 : 18:02:46
Actually, I believe (and if any scribes know different, please correct me), at the height of Myth Drannor, the scrolls weren't so secret and were available for the highest level wizards to study. At least that's the impression I always got. The only reason they were still in Myth Drannor after the fall was because, like so many other artifacts, there simply wasn't time to spirit them away without risking the demons getting them. At least they new that Windsong Tower would keep them safe from the demons. |
| Beirnadri Magranth |
Posted - 23 Aug 2008 : 15:45:34
Rupert- I'm not saying Aunuroch revealed that they had been in Myth Drannor. But in 2ed lore they were not in possession of the shades that's what I'm kinda complaining about. I'm saying it's frustrating (since they were so secure where they were in Windsong tower) that game developers used them instead of letting them be safe there for a little longer. I feel like game developers are using every artifact and plot hook that was left for the DMs to play with. They really don't need to have so many dramatic events take place so soon to keep my attention on Toril.
As for giving a reason as to why the new elves can't get them I don't think a reason in necessary. They were secret even at the height of Myth Drannor. I doubt very much that the elves could locate them even if they were aware of them even if they had a century or two. Yes eventually htey would have discovered them but it's not like demons etc. hadn't been trying for centuries to get at them so why all of a sudden should we worry about the newcomers locating and securing them immediately. Idk.
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| Ashe Ravenheart |
Posted - 23 Aug 2008 : 05:05:02
To add to Wooly's post, also remember that when the Scrolls location was first made public, it was dead center of Myth Drannor and you had to fight a LOT of demons to get there. Anauroch did it's part to clean up why the elves that reconquered MD weren't in possession of one of the most powerful artifacts in the Realms. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 23 Aug 2008 : 04:34:16
quote:
Originally posted by Beirnadri Magranth
I might check it out, but like the whole Aunuroch plot it just seems like they worked so hard to make these scrolls elusive and mysterious and then they went and ruined it by stating their location as clear as broad daylight.
Actually, the fact that the Nether Scrolls was there was first mentioned in 2E. It wasn't a development from the Anauroch module -- that module was building on existing lore. |
| Ashe Ravenheart |
Posted - 22 Aug 2008 : 21:45:31
Read Anaruoch if you get a chance. There's something much better than a Balenorn... ;) |
| Beirnadri Magranth |
Posted - 22 Aug 2008 : 21:38:00
I see where youre coming from but if I was dming i'd just be say too bad for those adventurers because the tower was gone and in the dimensional space there was a baelnorn guarding it |
| Ashe Ravenheart |
Posted - 22 Aug 2008 : 20:32:03
I kinda appreciated Anaruoch. After they cleaned up Myth Drannor in Last Mythal, they knew they would be all these adventurers going, 'Oh right, THAT's in the building right THERE!'. |
| Beirnadri Magranth |
Posted - 22 Aug 2008 : 20:13:43
Hmm the cover always seemed so cheesy and it reminded me of the callous type of inclusion of the artifacts like with the Edwin subplot in BGII.
I might check it out, but like the whole Aunuroch plot it just seems like they worked so hard to make these scrolls elusive and mysterious and then they went and ruined it by stating their location as clear as broad daylight. Anyways I guess its not so terrible since there are more than one copy of the artifacts and each are a little different in their own way. (hence why I wasn't sure if they ever went by the names given in that and GHotR). |
| Ashe Ravenheart |
Posted - 22 Aug 2008 : 17:27:57
Anaruoch takes place after the reclamation of Myth Drannor (as in the Last Mythal books). So I'd say they are still there in 1374. |
| monknwildcat |
Posted - 22 Aug 2008 : 16:52:43
Besides the iconic early writers like Cunningham and Grubb-Novak, the Nether Scrolls was one of my early faves.
It's tough to recommend it because the author's style's so different from the base of the novel line as to have no basis for comparison at the time. It left so many mysteries as to be potentially frustrating for readers who want everything wrapped up.
That said, I liked the characters and plot and writing style. Together with Ciencin's The Night Parade, it something of a precursor to the darker, more mature novels we have today. |
| Beirnadri Magranth |
Posted - 22 Aug 2008 : 16:18:12
Monkn- I think my brother had it when we were growing up but I never read it. So you recommend it?
|
| monknwildcat |
Posted - 22 Aug 2008 : 15:50:02
Thanks for the spoiler, Ashe, both in content and use thereof. Well-done!
They were determined to wrap up as much as possible at the end of 3E!
Beirnardi, please dismiss anything from canon that's poorly done. A devotee of the lore for the Scrolls will find a great use for them in your game.
Did either of you ever read Lynn Abbey's FR novel The Nether Scroll? Lynn spun a good yarn while leaving more unanswered lore than any answers provided, perhaps the antithesis of the way 3E closed. It's a sophisticated type of novel and highly frustrating for Meiers-Briggs-types needing closure--but also very realistic, IMO. |
| Nicolai Withander |
Posted - 22 Aug 2008 : 15:42:29
OK... I might be realy stupid... but in the year 1374 where we play, do the Scrolls exist in the Windsong tower or not. I cant quite follow all the info given???
And if the Shades stole them, are the Scrolls not in the City of Shade, under the command of Telamont??
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| Ashe Ravenheart |
Posted - 21 Aug 2008 : 04:58:50
Don't worry, Beirnadri, I have checked out the 2 edition info. Everything from the Ruins of Myth Drannor box set to Cormanthor: Empire of Elves to The Fall of Myth Drannor and Lost Empires of Faerun.
As for the spoiler, that's why it's a spoiler! |
| Beirnadri Magranth |
Posted - 21 Aug 2008 : 04:40:36
Wow that spoiler is retarded! That kinda takes the mystery out of THAT little treasure.
anywho Ashe you should check out some of the 2ed info on these since you seem interested. They have tons of awesome details about the grove and its keeper etc.
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| Ashe Ravenheart |
Posted - 21 Aug 2008 : 02:19:59
The Nether Scrolls were neither of these books.
quote:
The Lost Empires of Faerūn
Two sets of nether scrolls exist, each consisting of fifty individual scrolls. One complete set lies in the depths of Windsong Tower in the ruins of Myth Drannor, where it takes the form of a golden beech tree known as the Quess Ar Teranthvar (Golden Grove of Hidden Knowledge). The other set has been broken up and mostly lost.
Spoiler:
In the Anaruoch adventure/sourcebook, the Shades have stolen the Nether Scroll from Windsong and attempted to warp them with Shadow magic to learn their secrets. If successful, the heroes of the adventure prevent this from happening and the tree breaks apart, flinging the remaining scrolls to the far corners of Faerūn. |
| monknwildcat |
Posted - 20 Aug 2008 : 23:01:58
Thanks, Ashe!
Like Ashe said, the Dark Diviners are part of the "Shar ROCKS!" goth megaplot, although I'm surprised they weren't Sharrans themselves with appellation like Dark Diviners. Perhaps history so named them due to their role in the Leaves of One Night.
TTBOMK, nothing to do with the Scrolls, other than a plot using those with potential access to the scrolls in Myth Drannor. |
| Beirnadri Magranth |
Posted - 20 Aug 2008 : 22:13:53
Bah I'll have to check up on this. I haven't really examined the Nether Scroll history since '06 so I'm a little rusty on dates etc. I'll have to go back and see if any of the other sources mention Dark Diviners. I don't think the Nether Scrolls went by either of those names. Therefore, I'm kinda certain that the Dark Diviners never got their hands on it. |
| Ashe Ravenheart |
Posted - 20 Aug 2008 : 21:38:43
From Anaruoch:
The Dark Diviners came into possession of the "Book of the Black" and, through study and their own divinations, discovered a coming weakness of Shar and wrote the Leaves of One Night. This led to their being cursed by Shar and the Sharrans theft of the book. It sounds like Dark Diviner was just a title for Wizards/Oracles. |
| monknwildcat |
Posted - 20 Aug 2008 : 21:21:27
There's mention of the Dark Diviners of Windsong in the GHotR (684 DR Year of the Sundered Crypt), too. Something about the Book of the Black and Leaves of One Night and theft by Sharrans. Those Sharrans should have taken the Nether Scrolls....
No explanation of the title DARK DIVINER, though.
Hope that helps! |
| Beirnadri Magranth |
Posted - 18 Aug 2008 : 00:29:26
ShiningHeart, do you have access to the other resources mentioned in this thread? I found them immensely helpful! I can't really tell you about what it says in Anauroch since I haven't bought that book yet but Windsong Tower was definitely a Wizards' Academy for ages and ages!
I' see I'll have to get that book now... and I'm kinda surprised I haven't already but anyways. |
| Shining Heart |
Posted - 17 Aug 2008 : 21:59:13
There's more, new information about Windsong Tower in the Anauroch: The Empire of Shade (3.5E) adventure.
I'm confused about the purpose of the tower. All sources indicate that the tower was meant to teach magic to the elves of Cormanthor. However in "Anauroch", we learn about the Dark Diviners of Windsong Tower, a sect of Shar-worshipping diviners.
So what does that mean? |
| Beirnadri Magranth |
Posted - 19 Jan 2006 : 22:29:40
thanks again to all these replies! i hadnt seen the first short description of the tower in Cormanthyr but found it... yeah it is at s16... right near that noble house.
i wonder what life around there would have been like. especially during the seigesince there would have been huge battles to crush that complex next door as well...
maybe I'll have some of the pc's visit there in a dream-vision or something, so they can experience how tragic adn awe-inspiring the fall would have been. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 19 Jan 2006 : 16:49:51
Aye, it is.
The details for the Tower in Cormanthyr tell us it is located at S16 on the map.
|
| Steven Schend |
Posted - 19 Jan 2006 : 13:05:05
I could have sworn that I put it on the map in CORMANTHYR, but someone with access to it will have to check that for me (as I am at work). And much of that map in Cormanthyr was simply reverse engineered from the Ruins of Myth Drannor maps, so anything that was there in ruins had to be there in total for my work. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 19 Jan 2006 : 11:27:16
quote:
Originally posted by Beirnadri Magranth
i know its listed in the myth drannor boxed set but i will never be able to get my hands on that!
Actually, getting hands on that set may be easier than you think. I see it pop up on eBay every now and again, and Paizo.com should have it available for download for $4. If they don't have it, RPGNow will likely have it for a dollar more. |
| Beirnadri Magranth |
Posted - 19 Jan 2006 : 05:25:41
Thanks so much for responding since I knew you worked on Cormanthyr that 2ed book and a whole lot more! Interesting point that the magical accessways would still be tehre even without the physical anchors... would you by anychance be able to tell me where in the city it was? i know its listed in the myth drannor boxed set but i will never be able to get my hands on that! did you stop working for wotc in 2000 or something or are you still on?
lastly, if so are you guys probably doing more work with updating myht drannor or netheril stuff into 3.5? |
| Steven Schend |
Posted - 18 Jan 2006 : 19:01:19
Only the Tower itself flew away. The remainder of the rest fell to ruin during the Fall or afterward.
Note that the destruction of the extradimensional spaces and rooms and whatnot is unlikely--only their easiest and known physical access points.
Thus, if you know exactly how things were set up in days of yore, you could have the possible chance of accessing those hidden rooms and the treasures within them.
And yes, I was being purposefully vague (as well as rushed on that deadline in time and cramped for space in words).
SES |
| Beirnadri Magranth |
Posted - 18 Jan 2006 : 18:23:23
thanks again! yeah I figured it would be vague... with my luck its probably nda as well |
