| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Yde |
Posted - 12 Dec 2005 : 20:34:56
Goddag.
I'm looking for some background info about trolls. What makes them tick? What are their customs? All you get from the monster book, is that they are brutes and like hunting and eating humans. I read the old Ad&d book about Giants, but it only tells about true giants and the kin. Do trolls follow the Orderning (think it's called that)? who are their gods? Stuff like that.
I need it for an adventure where i'm going to let the players be trolls. If any of you have some backgrund about the Dungeon of Death, that would be really cool to.
Can you help me?
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| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| sidslick |
Posted - 18 Jan 2006 : 08:32:35
I know that the source may not be canon, but the various Slayer Guides (by Mongoose Publishing) are normally pretty good at giving extra information about various creatures, including trolls. They tend to include things such as tactics, tribal dynamics, progression, etc
Perhaps that may be what you're looking for, Yde?
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| Hoondatha |
Posted - 07 Jan 2006 : 06:44:27
Depends entirely on whether it costs more energy to regenerate than is gained through eating the flesh or not. No way to tell.
On the other hand, you could say that regeneration takes a great deal of energy, and that's part of why trolls are always hunting and killing (other than the fact they enjoy it). |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 07 Jan 2006 : 05:10:41
I'd not allow trolls to regenerate like that... Even in a fantasy world that allows for regeneration, how does a few ounces of meat grow an entirely new body to support it?
If a troll cut off his fingers, he's either got the option of reattaching them, or letting his bleeding hands produce more fingers. In the latter case, he's got new fingers and ten lumps of dead troll meat.
Hmmm... But my brain, insisting on its usual practice of odd cross-connections, has just had a thought. There was a Steven King short story where a guy marooned on an island begins eating himself to stay alive (literally -- he was a medical-type, and he was amputating and eating his own legs and such). I wonder how long a troll could pull that one off? |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 07 Jan 2006 : 05:00:38
Oh my . . . polka dotted mini me trolls . . . eep |
| Arivia |
Posted - 07 Jan 2006 : 04:49:35
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Yeah, but I don't think we are thinking powerful in terms of a single encounter. What I was thinking of is powerful in terms of, Troll cheiftain decides to destroy Waterdeep, and Troll Cheiftain has no soldiers. Troll Cheiftan bites off ten fingers. Lets say it takes a day to grow. Next day, Troll Cheiftan's fingers are back, ten more fingers, and he orders all of his followers to bite off their fingers as well. The troll population grows exponentially in this manner, if this is how this really worked. Trolls should then be the dominant force in Faerun by this point.
Ah, but to take a page from Paranoia, this is presuming each newly regenerated troll is the same as the last one. If they're different after a number of regenerations-ie, you start ending up with polka-dotted Tiny trolls after awhile, then that would certainly prevent them from doing that. |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 07 Jan 2006 : 04:41:36
Yeah, but I don't think we are thinking powerful in terms of a single encounter. What I was thinking of is powerful in terms of, Troll cheiftain decides to destroy Waterdeep, and Troll Cheiftain has no soldiers. Troll Cheiftan bites off ten fingers. Lets say it takes a day to grow. Next day, Troll Cheiftan's fingers are back, ten more fingers, and he orders all of his followers to bite off their fingers as well. The troll population grows exponentially in this manner, if this is how this really worked. Trolls should then be the dominant force in Faerun by this point. |
| Arivia |
Posted - 07 Jan 2006 : 04:01:07
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Well each can do what they want with thier realms, a troll ripping off fingers to birth new trolls sounds a little too powerful to me.
As long as it takes a decent amount of time for the starfished troll fingers to regenerate into new ones, it wouldn't be powerful at all, or would it affect the troll's CR, as it doesn't affect the troll's powers in a single encounter. |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 07 Jan 2006 : 02:48:36
Well each can do what they want with thier realms, a troll ripping off fingers to birth new trolls sounds a little too powerful to me. |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 07 Jan 2006 : 02:45:09
Hm . . . now I could see a way out of this though. What if there were a template for certain trolls born with a hyperactive regenerative ability. Or perhaps a troll that leaves for the Calling (via BoVD) and comes back able to do this form of multiplication. I think George is starting to rub off on me . . . I'd rather explain why something CAN happen that shouldn't be able too than just ignore it . . . Though I am sorry CF, I wouldn't call the template "Stafishism."
Starfishism Troll just doesn't strike fear into the hearts of PCs . . . |
| Crennen FaerieBane |
Posted - 07 Jan 2006 : 01:32:06
Well, not really a shot - the books may be told like that as a certain perspective of the characters involved. It makes the creatures seem that much more scary if they suffer from hydra-isms, or starfishisms, whichever.
C-Fb |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 07 Jan 2006 : 00:57:55
The only problem with that (and mind you, I normally side with novels over rulebooks, but) every time that is brought up, all the major "authorities" say that troll regeneration doesn't work that way. If it did, Faerun would be overun by the first Troll with a 10 intelligence that realized he could manufacture an army in such a manner. Its not a shot at Douglas Niles alone though, since RAS explains troll regeneration this was as well. |
| Adam_Garou |
Posted - 06 Jan 2006 : 20:52:45
A decent source for portraying trolls in the Realms (not necessarily the family groups, but something that makes them more than just mindless brutes--that is, CUNNING brutes  ) is, IIRC, the Druidhome trilogy by Douglas Niles.
Can't remember offhand which book this occurs in, but basically there's a large group of mixed trolls and firbolgs (more like fomorians as they're described, really) that are on a quest to free a firbolg demigod from the stone of a great mountain and use his bladed weapon to do it. Among the group, there's a male troll who's larger and more powerful than most who makes a habit of using the sacred weapon normally kept by the firbolg shaman to sever his fingers each night... because each separated finger becomes another troll. So every night, there are ten new trolls added to the pack.
Throughout the book, there are places where the firbolg chieftain wonders about how many trolls are part of their group--because there "seem to be more and more each day." This troll is slowly but surely scheming to outnumber the firbolgs and take over leadership of the group.
It's also not a bad look at how trolls interact with other "monsters", even if the bit about each piece regenerating into a completely new troll isn't how you run it in your games. Probably not exactly what you were looking for, but maybe a step in the right direction? |
| EvilKnight |
Posted - 06 Jan 2006 : 14:12:15
Actually, the Monster Manual III Web Enhancement shows that they can form small working groups. It seems that the usually need a strong leader that they fear.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20040917a
EvilKnight |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 05 Jan 2006 : 15:05:10
Well it takes some degree of Wisdom to become a 7th level Shaman.
Though just running arround hunting and ripping each others head off does not appear to be too wise. Trolls are basically meant to be killed, not have a society so they do not get much attention. |
| Crennen FaerieBane |
Posted - 05 Jan 2006 : 14:50:55
But still, it seems that trolls are always portrayed a bit more intelligent than the sourcebooks set them out to be. If the race was really that un-intelligent, Vaprak would probably have been subsumed by another deity by this point.
C-Fb |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 14 Dec 2005 : 15:13:07
From 2nd
"Trolls live in small packs of 3 to 12 trolls led by a dominant female who acts as shaman/chieftain. She casts priest spells at 7th level; spheres typically include Charm, Divination, Sun (Darkness only), and Weather. Leadership is only retained by combat, so fights for pack control are frequent. Often trolls rend each other limb from limb, but these battles are never fatal. Still, it is the custom of trolls to toss the loser's head a great distance from the fight scene, and frequently losers must sit and stew for a week until their new head grows in.
The pack chieftain's duties are few. She leads the trolls on nightly forages, loping along, sniffing the air for prey. If a scent is found, the trolls charge, racing to get there first, and letting out a great cry once prey is spotted. In return for being the hunt leader, the shaman gets her choice of mates in the pack. Females give birth to a single troll about once every five years." |
| Yde |
Posted - 14 Dec 2005 : 14:54:14
Okay Vaprak...got that. Thanks.
How about their customs? Do they have any? like, who can eat the most is the leader or something like that? Are females the leaders, or just the shamans in the clan? |
| Crennen FaerieBane |
Posted - 14 Dec 2005 : 04:32:45
Seriously though - do you think trolls that are more clever or more strong rule? I have seen examples of each of these. Spectral Trolls are not idiots as normal trolls are - they could actually be quite intellectual. Also, Trolls are known to be easily cowed by greater beings and used as fodder (Demons do this quite a bit - why isn't Vaprak mad?). So, opinions - pure might or intelligence?
C-Fb |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 14 Dec 2005 : 01:12:24
Actually, it was the hand of an ogre mage that was a worshipper of Vaprak that was the relic in question . . . |
| Gray Richardson |
Posted - 13 Dec 2005 : 18:52:45
My imagination took off when I read Steven's post. I wondered if, like Tyr, Vaprak was a one-handed god in the Realms. Then I remembered that trolls regenerate, so Vaprak probably grew back his hand. Interesting snippet of lore nonetheless!
But that comic sounds very interesting. I wonder if they have any of those back issues in my local comic shop. I will have to hunt them down. (As all trolls should be!  ) |
| Crennen FaerieBane |
Posted - 13 Dec 2005 : 14:49:25
Well, if he left his hand on Faerun --
So, where would be the defining source as to the mythology of 3E to where Vaprak came from? I do like Gray's interpretation. Not that I am planning on running a game with a troll cleric or anything (that would be scary), but it's always good to have that knowledge on hand.
C-Fb |
| Steven Schend |
Posted - 13 Dec 2005 : 14:05:55
quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
In Realms mythology, it is actually the reverse.
The demi-goddess Othea is the mother of all giants and giant-kin in the Realms. Her husband Annam sired the races of true giants (including ettins).
However, Othea was not faithful to Annam. She took Vaprak as a lover and bore the ogre and troll races. At last she cuckolded Annam with Ulutiu and gave birth to the giant-kin: the firbolgs, verbeegs, voadkyn and fomorians.
The origins of Vaprak in the Realms are uncertain. He may also be an interloper god and he may have been the son of Annam in another cosmos, as per Monster Mythology. No one has ever really addressed Vaprak with regards to the Realms.
And for those who like their Realmslore even more obscure and cross-media, seek out the first 4 issues of the FORGOTTEN REALMS comic published by DC Comics 1989-1991--the artifact that fuels the story is the Hand of Vaprak.  |
| Gray Richardson |
Posted - 13 Dec 2005 : 04:46:34
In Realms mythology, it is actually the reverse.
The demi-goddess Othea is the mother of all giants and giant-kin in the Realms. Her husband Annam sired the races of true giants (including ettins).
However, Othea was not faithful to Annam. She took Vaprak as a lover and bore the ogre and troll races. At last she cuckolded Annam with Ulutiu and gave birth to the giant-kin: the firbolgs, verbeegs, voadkyn and fomorians.
The origins of Vaprak in the Realms are uncertain. He may also be an interloper god and he may have been the son of Annam in another cosmos, as per Monster Mythology. No one has ever really addressed Vaprak with regards to the Realms. |
| Crennen FaerieBane |
Posted - 12 Dec 2005 : 21:31:29
Well, all the different kinds of trolls tick in different ways as well. While they are usually just run of the mill, the Spectral Troll and the Two-Headed trolls are generally smarter than the rest. Just like there differences in humans, the different kinds of trolls probably have a great difference between their trains of thought.
C-Fb |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 12 Dec 2005 : 20:59:29
Trolls worship Vaprak the Destroyer, who is also the god of the Ogres. According to the 2nd Edition book Monster Mythology, Vaprak was likely the offspring of the god Annam by a member of a race of powerful, especially nasty ogres that were skilled in illusion (thus snagging Annam with their illusions). Apparently Vaprak is concerned that his children will abandon him for the worship of the Giant gods. His dogma seems to be just to kill, eat, and mate, and trolls seem to put a lot more emphasis on the first two activities than the last (though obviously they do that too).
Trolls apparently enjoy proving that they are powerful, and while they are not noted for intelligence, occasionally they come up with cunning traps or decide to use stealth on opponents, though its their normal way to just walk up to something weaker and rip it to shreads. Trolls are also noted as being nearly fearless due to their ability to regenerate from any kind of wound except fire or acid.
I seem to remember somewhere noting that female trolls are arctually larger and more powerful than the males, but that the males are the work horses of the whole group, doing all the hunting, gathering, and rending.
That's about all that I have on the subject right now . . . |
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