| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Crennen FaerieBane |
Posted - 09 Aug 2005 : 00:00:42
I was just wondering what tomes happen to have some information concerning the "Creator Races"? I know Serpent Kingdoms has information about the Saurian ones, but I was just wondering if there was tome focused on that part of Faerun's history.
C-Fb |
| 19 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| RAKKIR |
Posted - 10 Aug 2005 : 12:29:38
Hmm,
Good information to have. I suppose it somewhat makes sense as well. Given the Imaskari were BIG on extradimensional places and gates, which is right up Halaster's alley. |
| khorne |
Posted - 10 Aug 2005 : 10:26:02
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by RAKKIR
I thought HALASTER is pretty much stated to be Netherese. I think that was stated in a couple of places. His True Netherese name was something like "Hilathar the Black" (or something close) and it became "Halaster Blackcloak" over time in Waterdeep.
Is there some infrence somewhere else that he is Imaskari? If so, where?
Ruins of Undermountain says, "Some say Halaster came from Netheril, others from the far east. Still others hold that he hailed from the Cradlelands, vanished human kingdoms now buried beneath Raurin and The Plains of Purple Dust."
Page 4 of Stardock, "Aquitiocrun is an ancient Raurinese word that translates as 'place where treasure is kept.' However, other words and phrases also can say the same; the word aqitiocrun specifically refers to the Raurinese pictographic symbol that is often marked on maps and treasure chamber doors within Raurin's ruins."
Page 29 of Stardock, "Therefore, the DM can determine if they have learned what they need to know; if much more time has gone on, the liches may be plumbing further secrets about Undermountain, Skullport, Raurin, and other secrets of Halaster's life."
From the mailing list in 2000 "The biggest hint (in print) re Halaster's origins can be found in the adventure "Stardock". This adventure clearly shows Halster's links with Raurin and hence Imaskar.
Eric Boyd had a Dragon article in the works about a year ago which amongst other things dealt with some magic items that Hilather created when he was working for the Shoon .... I doubt it will ever see the light of day now though ....
-- George Krashos"
From the mailing list in 2001: "Sigh.... This isn't a fact to be nailed down, folks. Ed & I intended that Halaster be whatever the GMs needed him to be for their games. THAT'S why his status in Stardock revealed so many mad images and forms that he could be anything to anyone.
Yes, he's old enough to have been from Netheril. He's actually old enough to have come from the Imaskari lands as well. Just because he has Netherese contemporaries doesn't prove anything about his origins. His secrets are so long lost (or at least well hidden) that's it's almost irrelevant to discuss what he was 1400 years ago....unless you want to do new things with him in regards to 3E changes.....but that's up to you, not any official canon.
Steven Schend
Whose obfuscations in the service of the DM seem to only cause confusion rather than relief and freedom."
“Indeed he might ... *lol* When I usually make up stuff on the fly or present my own FR creations, I say so. With respect to Halaster however, there was a clear general trend established by Steven Schend (and I say trend) to make him Raurinese. Steven's "Stardock" adventure gave the most blatant clues but there is also Steven's post on "The Seven Imaskarna" (which was originally a piece of fluff on the old TSR FR webpage frontpiece. His write-up to the FR List ended with this little piece of prose:
'Elminster's surprisingly close-mouthed about the truth of the matter, so he either doesn't know the answer or simply enjoys dribbling enough lore to whet the appetite without fully sating it. He did smirk about Synnaros' theory, and said, "I have seen one of these giant stone sages of Imaskar, aye. Whether it be one of Seven or an Imaskarcana at all is for someone of more rarified interest than mine own. Of course, ye can only get answers out of it if ye know the tongue of the Imaskari, for it only recognizes that tongue. There be only one Faerunian living or dead who might teach it to ye, and he's hardly one to welcome ye for a lesson while he wanders about the Underhalls......"
So, IMHO there is a lot more pointing to Halaster being from Raurin/Imaskar than to him being from Netheril. As previously mentioned by me on the FR List, Eric Boyd had written up a series of magic items for a proposed Dragon article that never got published. This article explicitly states that Halaster was Hilather and Hilather was from Raurin. He also BTW crafted Kuraltaar "the Demonshield", now in the hoard of Iryklathgra "Sharpfangs".
But then again, if you want Halaster to be Netherese, go for it, there's nothing really stopping you.
-- George Krashos”
It would be much better if he was Imaskari. There are so many netherese crawling around these days that you almost stumble over them, but only one(suspected) Imaskari. |
| warlockco |
Posted - 10 Aug 2005 : 06:38:56
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
And I can say that we nearly had a human race descriptor for Halaster in Cos:W - till I suggested to Eric that he keep it mysterious!  
-- George Krashos
And I actually prefer it that way!
I like leaving open the possibilities with regard to Halaster's true nature.
I concur. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 10 Aug 2005 : 06:10:18
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
And I can say that we nearly had a human race descriptor for Halaster in Cos:W - till I suggested to Eric that he keep it mysterious!
-- George Krashos
And I actually prefer it that way!
I like leaving open the possibilities with regard to Halaster's true nature.
|
| George Krashos |
Posted - 10 Aug 2005 : 01:37:39
And I can say that we nearly had a human race descriptor for Halaster in Cos:W - till I suggested to Eric that he keep it mysterious!
-- George Krashos
|
| Kuje |
Posted - 09 Aug 2005 : 23:14:19
quote:
Originally posted by RAKKIR
I thought HALASTER is pretty much stated to be Netherese. I think that was stated in a couple of places. His True Netherese name was something like "Hilathar the Black" (or something close) and it became "Halaster Blackcloak" over time in Waterdeep.
Is there some infrence somewhere else that he is Imaskari? If so, where?
Ruins of Undermountain says, "Some say Halaster came from Netheril, others from the far east. Still others hold that he hailed from the Cradlelands, vanished human kingdoms now buried beneath Raurin and The Plains of Purple Dust."
Page 4 of Stardock, "Aquitiocrun is an ancient Raurinese word that translates as 'place where treasure is kept.' However, other words and phrases also can say the same; the word aqitiocrun specifically refers to the Raurinese pictographic symbol that is often marked on maps and treasure chamber doors within Raurin's ruins."
Page 29 of Stardock, "Therefore, the DM can determine if they have learned what they need to know; if much more time has gone on, the liches may be plumbing further secrets about Undermountain, Skullport, Raurin, and other secrets of Halaster's life."
From the mailing list in 2000 "The biggest hint (in print) re Halaster's origins can be found in the adventure "Stardock". This adventure clearly shows Halster's links with Raurin and hence Imaskar.
Eric Boyd had a Dragon article in the works about a year ago which amongst other things dealt with some magic items that Hilather created when he was working for the Shoon .... I doubt it will ever see the light of day now though ....
-- George Krashos"
From the mailing list in 2001: "Sigh.... This isn't a fact to be nailed down, folks. Ed & I intended that Halaster be whatever the GMs needed him to be for their games. THAT'S why his status in Stardock revealed so many mad images and forms that he could be anything to anyone.
Yes, he's old enough to have been from Netheril. He's actually old enough to have come from the Imaskari lands as well. Just because he has Netherese contemporaries doesn't prove anything about his origins. His secrets are so long lost (or at least well hidden) that's it's almost irrelevant to discuss what he was 1400 years ago....unless you want to do new things with him in regards to 3E changes.....but that's up to you, not any official canon.
Steven Schend
Whose obfuscations in the service of the DM seem to only cause confusion rather than relief and freedom."
“Indeed he might ... *lol* When I usually make up stuff on the fly or present my own FR creations, I say so. With respect to Halaster however, there was a clear general trend established by Steven Schend (and I say trend) to make him Raurinese. Steven's "Stardock" adventure gave the most blatant clues but there is also Steven's post on "The Seven Imaskarna" (which was originally a piece of fluff on the old TSR FR webpage frontpiece. His write-up to the FR List ended with this little piece of prose:
'Elminster's surprisingly close-mouthed about the truth of the matter, so he either doesn't know the answer or simply enjoys dribbling enough lore to whet the appetite without fully sating it. He did smirk about Synnaros' theory, and said, "I have seen one of these giant stone sages of Imaskar, aye. Whether it be one of Seven or an Imaskarcana at all is for someone of more rarified interest than mine own. Of course, ye can only get answers out of it if ye know the tongue of the Imaskari, for it only recognizes that tongue. There be only one Faerunian living or dead who might teach it to ye, and he's hardly one to welcome ye for a lesson while he wanders about the Underhalls......"
So, IMHO there is a lot more pointing to Halaster being from Raurin/Imaskar than to him being from Netheril. As previously mentioned by me on the FR List, Eric Boyd had written up a series of magic items for a proposed Dragon article that never got published. This article explicitly states that Halaster was Hilather and Hilather was from Raurin. He also BTW crafted Kuraltaar "the Demonshield", now in the hoard of Iryklathgra "Sharpfangs".
But then again, if you want Halaster to be Netherese, go for it, there's nothing really stopping you.
-- George Krashos” |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 09 Aug 2005 : 22:51:52
Halaster's exact origins have never been nailed down. There's stuff hinting that he's Netherese, and there's stuff hinting that he's Imaskari...
|
| Misericordia |
Posted - 09 Aug 2005 : 22:09:47
I remember Halaster true name was Hilather, and some claim he comes from Netheril, others from the Cradlands. |
| RAKKIR |
Posted - 09 Aug 2005 : 21:59:17
I thought HALASTER is pretty much stated to be Netherese. I think that was stated in a couple of places. His True Netherese name was something like "Hilathar the Black" (or something close) and it became "Halaster Blackcloak" over time in Waterdeep.
Is there some infrence somewhere else that he is Imaskari? If so, where? |
| Kuje |
Posted - 09 Aug 2005 : 20:27:45
There's tons about Halaster we don't know about and one of them is how he lived as long as he has. Yes he is older then Elminster, since, as I said, Halaster's homeland was STRONGLY hinted to be Imaskari. :) |
| khorne |
Posted - 09 Aug 2005 : 20:07:07
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane
That brings me to another question - where exactly are the nether scrolls outlined? Also, what about those relics of Immaskar (sp). I know a couple of them are in LEoF, but I didn't know if there was a total breakdown somewhere.
Isn't there an old Netheril sourcebook somewhere as well? Like an Arcane Age one?
C-Fb
Hoho!! If Halaster is Imaskari then he is maybe the oldest(living, not undead) human on toril!.......Wait.....a......minute, how could he live that long? Even potions of long life or whatever they are called should have a limit, right?
The North box set has the details about the scrolls.
Imaskari artifacts have never really been detailed but Stardock makes mention of some that Halaster uses/knows, since he is Imaskari or strongly hinted to be.
The Netheril box set is...... well it's not one of the best of 2e's lore. :)
|
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 09 Aug 2005 : 17:05:01
I had always kind of assumed that the "Arcane Age" stuff pertaining to Netheril is largely, er, not overly referred to due to some kinks between established Realmlore and different concepts introduced . . . thats also one of the reasons that when I have been slowly trying to catch up on older FR novels that I never got, I still haven't put the Arcane Age Netheril books on the list. |
| Kuje |
Posted - 09 Aug 2005 : 16:55:45
quote:
Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane
That brings me to another question - where exactly are the nether scrolls outlined? Also, what about those relics of Immaskar (sp). I know a couple of them are in LEoF, but I didn't know if there was a total breakdown somewhere.
Isn't there an old Netheril sourcebook somewhere as well? Like an Arcane Age one?
C-Fb
The North box set has the details about the scrolls.
Imaskari artifacts have never really been detailed but Stardock makes mention of some that Halaster uses/knows, since he is Imaskari or strongly hinted to be.
The Netheril box set is...... well it's not one of the best of 2e's lore. :) |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 09 Aug 2005 : 15:45:12
I always though it was interesting that the "amphibious" creator race might have been the Slaad, but if it was, then they not only left Faerun, but they left the cosmology that they created their creatures in (though it would explain why bullywugs and other amphibious characters appear in Greyhawk and other settings . . . if they do now in 3rd Edition). |
| Crennen FaerieBane |
Posted - 09 Aug 2005 : 15:38:05
quote:
Originally posted by warlockco
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
They've never received any great or particular focus.
However the Creator Races were first mentioned by Paul Jaquays (the 'creator' of the concept) in FR5 The Savage Frontier and REF3 Lords of Darkness, which is a 1e supplement.
The NPC Mummy from REF3 Lords of Darkness is also mentioned in Serpent Kingdoms. Page 96 Serpent Kingdoms, Crypt of Hssthak is where the adventure took place in 1E.
He also has two Nether Scrolls.
That brings me to another question - where exactly are the nether scrolls outlined? Also, what about those relics of Immaskar (sp). I know a couple of them are in LEoF, but I didn't know if there was a total breakdown somewhere.
Isn't there an old Netheril sourcebook somewhere as well? Like an Arcane Age one?
C-Fb |
| warlockco |
Posted - 09 Aug 2005 : 03:31:47
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
They've never received any great or particular focus.
However the Creator Races were first mentioned by Paul Jaquays (the 'creator' of the concept) in FR5 The Savage Frontier and REF3 Lords of Darkness, which is a 1e supplement.
The NPC Mummy from REF3 Lords of Darkness is also mentioned in Serpent Kingdoms. Page 96 Serpent Kingdoms, Crypt of Hssthak is where the adventure took place in 1E.
He also has two Nether Scrolls. |
| Kuje |
Posted - 09 Aug 2005 : 02:17:45
That npc is also in my npc file. :) Of course. |
| Crennen FaerieBane |
Posted - 09 Aug 2005 : 02:10:58
Thanks - guess I'll have to dig into my Lords of Darkness supplement to find that out. Now I just have to remember where my 1st Ed sourcebooks are!  |
| The Sage |
Posted - 09 Aug 2005 : 01:50:13
They've never received any great or particular focus.
However the Creator Races were first mentioned by Paul Jaquays (the 'creator' of the concept) in FR5 The Savage Frontier and REF3 Lords of Darkness, which is a 1e supplement.
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