| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Jamallo Kreen |
Posted - 26 Jun 2005 : 12:46:15
quote:
Originally posted by Moonharp
Here I have an icidental question that popped into my head as I read this thread... I had not been able to find the answer anywhere in my tomes of lore.
Was Abeir-Toril ever the victim of a large natural cataclysmic event? I mean things such as a meteorites, volcanic overheating, toxicity in the atmosphere... And if there was, what effects did it have?
 Dinosaurs are still alive, so I guess there really wasn't any such event (ok, sorry for that, I know, it was sad...)
In The Parched Sea there is a description of what is likely a volcanic caldera, which is attributed to the Gods beating the devils out of the ancestral Bedine at the Scattering.
Having seen several photos and description of the Black Stone set in the Ka'aba of Mecca, I came here to search for "meteorite." Alas, this is the only relevant hit, albeit a fortuitous one. If I may distort the direction of the author's intent somewhat, I would like to know what the people of Toril think of meteorites. It wasn't until the 19th century that most European scientists accepted that meteorites came from space (and well into the 18th century some scientists were denying their very existence).
I don't expect the inhabitants of Abeir-Toril (except for those familiar with space travel) to be hep to meteorites being of extra-Torileal origin. Still, the Mazticans are supposed to have a very advanced astronomy, so they may accept that meteorites are space rocks, and the scholars of Kara-Tur might be expected to have had Spelljamming space science trickle down to them. What, however are the various views of meteorite origin actually held by the various peoples? Do they venerate them as holy objects (maybe pieces of dead gods)? Do they have different opinions of iron meteorites (source of meteoric iron) than they do of rocky meteorites (sources of useless disasters)? Do most peoples have a scientific explanation of the origin of meteorites, or a superstitious one, as the Bedine have of their caldera?
I seek knowledge. Please enlighten me. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 27 Feb 2020 : 20:47:39
Master Rupert,
Fair enough. That makes sense.
Geez...I would love it if they would just bite the bullet and make the change. They could even blame the good ole days of TSR if they wanted a scapegoat and say....it's time to get it all onboard.
Alas, I know that won't happen, but here is to hopin'! :)
Best regards,
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2
Master TBeholder,
Yeah, I agree on the Spelljammer stuff.
I really wish it would have just been a universe with the regular things in it and you have to figure it out.
Alas, that never happened, and never will. :(
They couldn't make it a regular universe because of Krynn -- when constellations change, disappear, reappear, and all that, it causes huge issues unless there's something other than the standard setup in place.
|
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 27 Feb 2020 : 11:50:11
quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2
Master TBeholder,
Yeah, I agree on the Spelljammer stuff.
I really wish it would have just been a universe with the regular things in it and you have to figure it out.
Alas, that never happened, and never will. :(
They couldn't make it a regular universe because of Krynn -- when constellations change, disappear, reappear, and all that, it causes huge issues unless there's something other than the standard setup in place. |
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 27 Feb 2020 : 01:44:39
Great Reader sleyvas,
Yeah, it sounds cool, until your mind just doesn't get along with the crystal sphere/phlogiston deal.
I have it setup in my campaign world (not canon here) with a regular solar system, etc. with the H'Catha as sort of a 'Mos Eisley' with more than just the beholders there. There are wizardly factions (again non-canon) there that work to control dangerous objects in the solar system from making collisions. :)
I like it better than the sun idea (no offense).
Best regards,
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by AJA
So, meteorites are:
[ SPELLJAMMER ]
Meteorites are pieces of Realmspace's crystal sphere cracking and chipping and hurtling off through the void until they sometimes impact in Faerūn. Why is the crystal sphere decaying and how can it be fixed? Go boldly forth, young adventurers!
[ MATTERS OF FAITH ]
Meteorites are from the Tears of Selūne, which occasionally fall down to Faerūn, either at the inscrutable whim of a god or the nudge of the giant and terrible Sky Dragons that 'everyone knows' fly around up there in the void.
[ DND SCIENCE~! ]
The sun of Realmspace is a giant gate to the plane of elemental fire; when the borders between the planes of elemental fire and elemental earth (or quasi-elemental minerals) sometimes blur, the sun burps forth meteors which then sometimes crash into Toril.
[ I GOT YER EPIC CAMPAIGN RIGHT HERE ]
Meteorites were summoned in fell ritual in the ancient Days Before Record, by archmages of the vast and fallen empire of your choosing, to strike at their foes. Such powers are now lost to mortals, which is why all meteor strikes and starmetal deposits in Faerūn are hundreds or thousands of years old. Look out, it seems someone has re-discovered the methods of those terrible summonings!
That sound about right?
While I had thought about many of these in the past (even the part of the sphere "modifying")
I have to say I never thought of the sun producing them via the portals... and I like that idea. I've wondered in the past if the king killer star isn't a spin off from the whole original sundering thing (and since it didn't collapse to Toril in the Tearfall, does it have some heretofore unknown "draconic" nature in/on/or part of it that enabled the dracorage mythal) .
|
| AJA |
Posted - 27 Feb 2020 : 01:05:58
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
No, that part is silly. Spheres don't work this way (or there won't be many left  ).
Why yes, it does sound like an awesome campaign hook. (how else do you top SJA4 and SJS1-SJQ1?)
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
They are unaffected by anything up to spheres of annihilation and suchlike.
Well....
quote:
Originally posted by SJR2 Realmspace, p.2
The surface...is completely immune to nearly every known damage, attack, or spell. Nothing known in the universe can begin to tear or crack it.
That nearly is doing some real curious things there. Even if you read it as a reference to the create portal spells and items affecting it, it still leaves the door open for a whole lot of other "damage, attack, or spell" ideas. Plus, last time I checked, horrors from the Far Realm were not part of this universe. 
quote:
Also on p.2
A feature unique to Realmspace is the hundreds of millions of glyphs and wards that cover the inside lining of the crystal sphere....When read, even if merely by thought, the magic stored in these writings is invoked.
Alright, which one of you wise guys are standing there read magic-ing the runes for meteor swarm and meteor strike?
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Meteoric iron vs space aliens?
Already a better movie than Cowboys & Aliens.
|
| sleyvas |
Posted - 26 Feb 2020 : 23:05:30
quote:
Originally posted by AJA
So, meteorites are:
[ SPELLJAMMER ]
Meteorites are pieces of Realmspace's crystal sphere cracking and chipping and hurtling off through the void until they sometimes impact in Faerūn. Why is the crystal sphere decaying and how can it be fixed? Go boldly forth, young adventurers!
[ MATTERS OF FAITH ]
Meteorites are from the Tears of Selūne, which occasionally fall down to Faerūn, either at the inscrutable whim of a god or the nudge of the giant and terrible Sky Dragons that 'everyone knows' fly around up there in the void.
[ DND SCIENCE~! ]
The sun of Realmspace is a giant gate to the plane of elemental fire; when the borders between the planes of elemental fire and elemental earth (or quasi-elemental minerals) sometimes blur, the sun burps forth meteors which then sometimes crash into Toril.
[ I GOT YER EPIC CAMPAIGN RIGHT HERE ]
Meteorites were summoned in fell ritual in the ancient Days Before Record, by archmages of the vast and fallen empire of your choosing, to strike at their foes. Such powers are now lost to mortals, which is why all meteor strikes and starmetal deposits in Faerūn are hundreds or thousands of years old. Look out, it seems someone has re-discovered the methods of those terrible summonings!
That sound about right?
While I had thought about many of these in the past (even the part of the sphere "modifying")
I have to say I never thought of the sun producing them via the portals... and I like that idea. I've wondered in the past if the king killer star isn't a spin off from the whole original sundering thing (and since it didn't collapse to Toril in the Tearfall, does it have some heretofore unknown "draconic" nature in/on/or part of it that enabled the dracorage mythal) . |
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 26 Feb 2020 : 21:40:40
Master TBeholder,
Yeah, I agree on the Spelljammer stuff.
I really wish it would have just been a universe with the regular things in it and you have to figure it out.
Alas, that never happened, and never will. :(
Best regards,
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
quote:
Originally posted by AJA
So, meteorites are:
[ SPELLJAMMER ]
Meteorites are pieces of Realmspace's crystal sphere cracking and chipping and hurtling off through the void until they sometimes impact in Faerūn. Why is the crystal sphere decaying and how can it be fixed? Go boldly forth, young adventurers!
[...]
That sound about right?
No, that part is silly. Spheres don't work this way (or there won't be many left ). They are unaffected by anything up to spheres of annihilation and suchlike.
Also, there already are rocks in wildspace.
Even whole ecosystems on and around them. Including the meteorspawn - gigantic critters built around a pun on "meteorism" (as in, they graze on asteroid stone and occasionally use, ahem, solid waste for propulsion and self-defence, each pellet being equivalent of a heavy catapult shot).
|
| TBeholder |
Posted - 26 Feb 2020 : 16:41:22
quote:
Originally posted by AJA
So, meteorites are:
[ SPELLJAMMER ]
Meteorites are pieces of Realmspace's crystal sphere cracking and chipping and hurtling off through the void until they sometimes impact in Faerūn. Why is the crystal sphere decaying and how can it be fixed? Go boldly forth, young adventurers!
[...]
That sound about right?
No, that part is silly. Spheres don't work this way (or there won't be many left ). They are unaffected by anything up to spheres of annihilation and suchlike.
Also, there already are rocks in wildspace.
Even whole ecosystems on and around them. Including the meteorspawn - gigantic critters built around a pun on "meteorism" (as in, they graze on asteroid stone and occasionally use, ahem, solid waste for propulsion and self-defence, each pellet being equivalent of a heavy catapult shot). |
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 26 Feb 2020 : 07:00:24
Great Reader Ayrik,
Oh, it was just an idea being throw out. With so little known about the Far Realms as is, I figured it might be able to have some twist thrown in with that metal having random effects, or consistent, on those Far Realm creatures since everything is so bizarre with them.
Best regards,
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
There are items which retain their material and magical properties across most worlds and planes.
A sword of the planes ... of course.
Githyanki silver swords (made of hammered astral, alchemically tempered in a psionically-powered "silver forge").
A cubic gate (made of stuff mixed from six distinct worlds/planes, same properties in each of these six place but cannot exist elsewhere).
A problem with material which works the same everywhere in the (D&D) cosmos is that there are too many mutually destructive opposites. There are always practical limits. And everywhere you go there's always some sort of local material which works even better for local needs.
Why would star metal be a particular allergy/vulnerability to aberrations from the Far Realms? It has no planar affinity, not even on Primes (or Wildspace or Phlogiston) where it originates.
If anything it should be useful vs creatures which live away from the stars (ie; planetary surfaces, on the ground or under the ground). I could see star metal being good for making something like a holy sword, for example - because of exposure to aeons of radiant starlight while it drifted through the celestial heavens - not because it's a metal with some intrinsic property vs unholy extraplanars.
|
| Ayrik |
Posted - 26 Feb 2020 : 02:44:18
There are items which retain their material and magical properties across most worlds and planes.
A sword of the planes ... of course.
Githyanki silver swords (made of hammered astral, alchemically tempered in a psionically-powered "silver forge").
A cubic gate (made of stuff mixed from six distinct worlds/planes, same properties in each of these six place but cannot exist elsewhere).
A problem with material which works the same everywhere in the (D&D) cosmos is that there are too many mutually destructive opposites. There are always practical limits. And everywhere you go there's always some sort of local material which works even better for local needs.
Why would star metal be a particular allergy/vulnerability to aberrations from the Far Realms? It has no planar affinity, not even on Primes (or Wildspace or Phlogiston) where it originates.
If anything it should be useful vs creatures which live away from the stars (ie; planetary surfaces, on the ground or under the ground). I could see star metal being good for making something like a holy sword, for example - because of exposure to aeons of radiant starlight while it drifted through the celestial heavens - not because it's a metal with some intrinsic property vs unholy extraplanars. |
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 25 Feb 2020 : 06:09:43
Great Reader Kentinal,
You know, after I read your post it made me think: what if Star Iron didn't change as it went from one plane to another? If it was magic in the Realms, it would be on Earth? That one, super unique item that transcends all, and is commensurately rare.
Thoughts?
Best regards,
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Silver vs lycanthropes
Iron vs fey
Cold iron vs demons
Meteoric iron vs space aliens?
Call it Star Iron, aliens makes some sense, that though can include dimensional traveler I would think.
|
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 25 Feb 2020 : 06:06:42
Great Reader Ayrik,
You know, I think that is heading in the right direction. I think the idea of meteoric iron being usable against Far Realm creatures would be awesome. I mean, with it being so unusual, a very rare item against things like that would be invaluable!
Best regards,
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Silver vs lycanthropes
Iron vs fey
Cold iron vs demons
Meteoric iron vs space aliens?
|
| Kentinal |
Posted - 25 Feb 2020 : 04:13:09
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Silver vs lycanthropes
Iron vs fey
Cold iron vs demons
Meteoric iron vs space aliens?
Call it Star Iron, aliens makes some sense, that though can include dimensional traveler I would think. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 25 Feb 2020 : 03:39:44
Silver vs lycanthropes
Iron vs fey
Cold iron vs demons
Meteoric iron vs space aliens? |
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 25 Feb 2020 : 01:35:32
Senior Scribe AJA,
I love it. I am going for the final one: I Got Your Epic Campaign Right Here!
Although, I think that is a bit self-loving, but whatever. hahaha
Best regards,
quote:
Originally posted by AJA
So, meteorites are:
[ SPELLJAMMER ]
Meteorites are pieces of Realmspace's crystal sphere cracking and chipping and hurtling off through the void until they sometimes impact in Faerūn. Why is the crystal sphere decaying and how can it be fixed? Go boldly forth, young adventurers!
[ MATTERS OF FAITH ]
Meteorites are from the Tears of Selūne, which occasionally fall down to Faerūn, either at the inscrutable whim of a god or the nudge of the giant and terrible Sky Dragons that 'everyone knows' fly around up there in the void.
[ DND SCIENCE~! ]
The sun of Realmspace is a giant gate to the plane of elemental fire; when the borders between the planes of elemental fire and elemental earth (or quasi-elemental minerals) sometimes blur, the sun burps forth meteors which then sometimes crash into Toril.
[ I GOT YER EPIC CAMPAIGN RIGHT HERE ]
Meteorites were summoned in fell ritual in the ancient Days Before Record, by archmages of the vast and fallen empire of your choosing, to strike at their foes. Such powers are now lost to mortals, which is why all meteor strikes and starmetal deposits in Faerūn are hundreds or thousands of years old. Look out, it seems someone has re-discovered the methods of those terrible summonings!
That sound about right?
|
| AJA |
Posted - 25 Feb 2020 : 00:37:16
So, meteorites are:
[ SPELLJAMMER ]
Meteorites are pieces of Realmspace's crystal sphere cracking and chipping and hurtling off through the void until they sometimes impact in Faerūn. Why is the crystal sphere decaying and how can it be fixed? Go boldly forth, young adventurers!
[ MATTERS OF FAITH ]
Meteorites are from the Tears of Selūne, which occasionally fall down to Faerūn, either at the inscrutable whim of a god or the nudge of the giant and terrible Sky Dragons that 'everyone knows' fly around up there in the void.
[ DND SCIENCE~! ]
The sun of Realmspace is a giant gate to the plane of elemental fire; when the borders between the planes of elemental fire and elemental earth (or quasi-elemental minerals) sometimes blur, the sun burps forth meteors which then sometimes crash into Toril.
[ I GOT YER EPIC CAMPAIGN RIGHT HERE ]
Meteorites were summoned in fell ritual in the ancient Days Before Record, by archmages of the vast and fallen empire of your choosing, to strike at their foes. Such powers are now lost to mortals, which is why all meteor strikes and starmetal deposits in Faerūn are hundreds or thousands of years old. Look out, it seems someone has re-discovered the methods of those terrible summonings!
That sound about right?
|
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 23 Feb 2020 : 21:00:21
Great Reader Ayrik,
All interesting points you make there! :)
quote:
D&D sometimes preempted the obvious player strategy of getting rich by profiting from commodity value differences between settings.
That makes sense to me. I mean, you can ensure that those with a little obscure knowledge don't take it too far by doing so. It's a low grade governor I believe.
quote:
Such modern thinking is not properly adventurous (or medieval)!
I agree with the notion that it is not properly "adventurous" in the traditional linear storyline model.
As to medieval, that's not accurate with the understanding that there are some caveats of people dealing in such things, and not the peasants, etc. However, if we're dealing with "adventurers" who are able to to freely travel between nations with little to no resistance, etc. then these adventurers would be at the very heart of the currency trade in all likelihood. It was quite common back in medieval times to see the local currency valuation changed by usance which were commonly standardized at a rate commensurate with the distance. (deRoover, 1944 - 1968 / Mandich, 1970) Medieval purchases were also commonly done in Bills of Exchange to ensure that if goods were going from one location to another of notable economic significance, that the exchange of specie would occur in a controlled, safe environment. It removed the necessity of carrying vast quantities of specie around with ones self or caravan. So, the key here for adventurers would be to do what was very common back in medieval times: weigh the specie. If it was comprised of lesser material, i.e. silver, gold, platinum than other places, you could ask for a different rate on exchange by paying less with your more valued specie, equal if commensurate, or more if your specie is valued less. Melting it down was the next step though, once you found out who had the better specie. Since adventurer's are adventuring around far and wide anyways, not including that aspect in there sort of devalues, especially more price elastic characters, from some of the benefits of the risk they take to travel so far and wide. :)
Just collecting information alone on specie as they out and about and selling that information as an update to vendors can be a huge boon. Imagine characters adventuring far and wide from Baldur's Gate to Luiren (stopping by Cathyr in Dambrath) to discover during a trade that Dambrath has increased the amount of electrum in their Crints, in order to devalue Murghom's new discovery of (8) new veins of copper in the Mountains of Copper? They could find themselves traveling on the ocean and attacked as an incidental reality of a currency trade war. :)
That's why during the creation of each of my sandbox campaigns, I focus on ensuring that the economics of trade and currency are factored in. As conditions change in the campaign, I just update my spreadsheet with the differences, and all of a sudden, the awful weighted coin they received in 'x' only buys 20% of what it could if it were worthy more when they stop in Waterdeep for magic items. :)
Thoughts?
Best regards,
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2
Perhaps not as "precious", locally, but the purchase power parity of materials in other consumer markets that don't possess that kind of currency is still valuable.
Great economic effects.
Yes and No.
D&D sometimes preempted the obvious player strategy of getting rich by profiting from commodity value differences between settings. Such modern thinking is not properly adventurous (or medieval)! More importantly, it's hard to keep it from quickly evolving into a game-breaking exploit. Adventurers are supposed to be lean and hungry, if they're fat and jaded then they get too picky about which adventuring opportunities are worthy of their attentions, the DM loses a powerful narrative (and motivational) tool.
So spells like teleport (with or without error), gate, worldwalk, planeshift, even time travel sometimes refer to ohysical/magical laws somehow transmuting stuff from origin into equivalent stuff at destination. A common steel blade from the Realms turns into a common bronze blade when taken to Krynn, a common obsidian blade when taken to Athas, etc - whatever sort of item basically has the same value and stats in this different world. Only permanent magical items remained (mostly) unchanged, but they are universally rare and precious items in every published setting anyhow.
Many DM's routinely ignored this whole idea, most authors seemed to conveniently forget it. Others enforced (or exaggerated) the idea without mercy, they forced old-school RPG thinking on their players (ie: no "free" gold just because spellcaster; if you want gold then you gotta go adventuring, killing, or stealing; and if you get too much gold then your lifestule expenses will suddenly inflate).
|
| Ayrik |
Posted - 22 Feb 2020 : 23:28:53
quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2
Perhaps not as "precious", locally, but the purchase power parity of materials in other consumer markets that don't possess that kind of currency is still valuable.
Great economic effects.
Yes and No.
D&D sometimes preempted the obvious player strategy of getting rich by profiting from commodity value differences between settings. Such modern thinking is not properly adventurous (or medieval)! More importantly, it's hard to keep it from quickly evolving into a game-breaking exploit. Adventurers are supposed to be lean and hungry, if they're fat and jaded then they get too picky about which adventuring opportunities are worthy of their attentions, the DM loses a powerful narrative (and motivational) tool.
So spells like teleport (with or without error), gate, worldwalk, planeshift, even time travel sometimes refer to ohysical/magical laws somehow transmuting stuff from origin into equivalent stuff at destination. A common steel blade from the Realms turns into a common bronze blade when taken to Krynn, a common obsidian blade when taken to Athas, etc - whatever sort of item basically has the same value and stats in this different world. Only permanent magical items remained (mostly) unchanged, but they are universally rare and precious items in every published setting anyhow.
Many DM's routinely ignored this whole idea, most authors seemed to conveniently forget it. Others enforced (or exaggerated) the idea without mercy, they forced old-school RPG thinking on their players (ie: no "free" gold just because spellcaster; if you want gold then you gotta go adventuring, killing, or stealing; and if you get too much gold then your lifestule expenses will suddenly inflate). |
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 22 Feb 2020 : 22:34:41
Great Reader Aryrik,
Perhaps not as "precious", locally, but the purchase power parity of materials in other consumer markets that don't possess that kind of currency is still valuable.
Great economic effects.
Best regards.
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Star Metal on the Realms might vary from place to place.
Perhaps relatively "plentiful" in a place like Halruaa and consequently not as precious. While truly extraordinary in a place like the Moonshaes or the Underdark. (Unless the Star Metal has magical properties somehow "attuned" to the region where it fell?)
Chunks of iron ore might float around Wildspace or the Flow. Or drift through the Phlogiston into Realmspace from impossibly distance/unreachable spheres. Some ordinary, some extraordinary.
Steel is already rare and precious on Krynn, meteoric steel even more so. It is entirely absent on Athas. But steel of any grade is a subpar choice on Oerth where mitril and adamants are seemingly abundant.
Various spells (like fallen meteor or meteor swarm) cause meteoric substances to fall from the sky. Perhaps these are sometimes metallic? If so, I imagine Star Metal could be "found" on demand and consequently be less expensive on high-magic worlds (like Toril).
Planescape imposes physical and magical propertied on planes, places, and worlds - along with all the materials which come from them. A sword made of prized Baatorian Steel is a nearly worthless and powerless pointed object (worse than a local wooden stick) in Arvandor. This logic might apply to Star Metals, awesomely potent on some Primes but utterly unexceptional on others.
|
| Ayrik |
Posted - 22 Feb 2020 : 20:55:10
Star Metal on the Realms might vary from place to place.
Perhaps relatively "plentiful" in a place like Halruaa and consequently not as precious. While truly extraordinary in a place like the Moonshaes or the Underdark. (Unless the Star Metal has magical properties somehow "attuned" to the region where it fell?)
Chunks of iron ore might float around Wildspace or the Flow. Or drift through the Phlogiston into Realmspace from impossibly distance/unreachable spheres. Some ordinary, some extraordinary.
Steel is already rare and precious on Krynn, meteoric steel even more so. It is entirely absent on Athas. But steel of any grade is a subpar choice on Oerth where mitril and adamants are seemingly abundant.
Various spells (like fallen meteor or meteor swarm) cause meteoric substances to fall from the sky. Perhaps these are sometimes metallic? If so, I imagine Star Metal could be "found" on demand and consequently be less expensive on high-magic worlds (like Toril).
Planescape imposes physical and magical propertied on planes, places, and worlds - along with all the materials which come from them. A sword made of prized Baatorian Steel is a nearly worthless and powerless pointed object (worse than a local wooden stick) in Arvandor. This logic might apply to Star Metals, awesomely potent on some Primes but utterly unexceptional on others. |
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 22 Feb 2020 : 15:22:25
Great Reader sleyvas,
Your conjuring up of Halruaa is frickin' awesome! I agree with you. To me, that is the once place that looks like it was hit with a meteorite. Nice call!
Best regards,
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
IIRC Mark Taylor awhile back was musing on Toril being frequently struck by meteors and THO agreed with his idea. That the scars of the impacts are all over the place. Star Mountains being one example. The Moonsea being created by a meteor strike is another.
Yeah, we were discussing whether a lot of the things that have happened to Toril might not somehow be related to meteor strikes.
Some ideas that we were passing around
Halruaa's mountains and Lake Halarrah (spelling?).
The Star Mounts
The collapse that caused the great rift and the underground river that exits out the landrise (and possibly the shift that cause the landrise itself).
The jagged Priador's in Thay possibly being part of meteoric strikes (there may be multiple odd sources of magic throughout Thay). Perhaps some sources of volcanic activity in Thay are because of things buried beneath the surface rather than what we would traditionally consider as the cause for volcanic activity.
There were some more, like something near the Evereska.
|
| sleyvas |
Posted - 22 Feb 2020 : 15:17:19
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
IIRC Mark Taylor awhile back was musing on Toril being frequently struck by meteors and THO agreed with his idea. That the scars of the impacts are all over the place. Star Mountains being one example. The Moonsea being created by a meteor strike is another.
Yeah, we were discussing whether a lot of the things that have happened to Toril might not somehow be related to meteor strikes.
Some ideas that we were passing around
Halruaa's mountains and Lake Halarrah (spelling?).
The Star Mounts
The collapse that caused the great rift and the underground river that exits out the landrise (and possibly the shift that cause the landrise itself).
The jagged Priador's in Thay possibly being part of meteoric strikes (there may be multiple odd sources of magic throughout Thay). Perhaps some sources of volcanic activity in Thay are because of things buried beneath the surface rather than what we would traditionally consider as the cause for volcanic activity.
There were some more, like something near the Evereska.
|
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 22 Feb 2020 : 07:42:23
Master Rupert,
Well, it sounds like they could have done well, but just screwed it up.
I appreciate the summary!
Best regards,
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2
Master Rupert,
So, I really never did get into Spelljammer at all. I think I read a couple of things online years ago, but that was about it.
How does it associate with the Realms meaningfully?
Spelljammer was meant to be a way to connect the big settings of the day: Greyhawk, Dragonlance, and the Forgotten Realms.
Dark Sun and Ravenloft were around, too, but the idea of connecting them with magical space travel really didn't work well. Ravenloft is a demiplane, and a spelljamming helm would cause issues on Athas, so they weren't part of the overall goal -- though we did later find out that the Mists can reach into space to grab people.
So part of the design plan was that the big three settings were all contained within the larger Spelljammer setting... Spelljammer was literally what was going on over the heads of the folks on the ground on Faerūn.
But actual meaningful interaction? It didn't happen. They did push some Spelljammer stuff in, for a year or two, but such efforts petered off after a while. Later references popped up in places, but Spelljammer as a setting was quietly shuffled off to one side and forgotten.
Spelljammer was my first love of D&D settings, but it had its flaws. One of them was the fact that despite the intent of connecting the settings together, there didn't seem to be any coordination at all between the creative teams. Because of this, we have Spelljammer lore in the Krynnspace supplement that flat-out contradicts known Dragonlance lore (and some really weird ideas that I think never should have seen print), and Spelljammer lore in the Realmspace supplement that is entirely disconnected from any Realmlore (like a missing Moonshae castle or a group of Moonshae assassins never mentioned anywhere else).
I'm not sure there was an overall vision of where to take the Spelljammer setting after its initial development, either... There were some disconnected modules, a couple that tried to make a larger narrative, and that was about it.
I think another issue with Spelljammer was that too many people were thinking of space travel in real-world terms, and just couldn't accept things like someone strolling about, unprotected, on the deck of their wooden ship as it orbits a planet. That wasn't a design flaw, but it was something that helped doom the setting.
So, tl;dr answer: they pushed some Spelljammer into the Realms here and there and then forgot about it as Spelljammer was forgotten.
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| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 22 Feb 2020 : 02:48:52
quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2
Master Rupert,
So, I really never did get into Spelljammer at all. I think I read a couple of things online years ago, but that was about it.
How does it associate with the Realms meaningfully?
Spelljammer was meant to be a way to connect the big settings of the day: Greyhawk, Dragonlance, and the Forgotten Realms.
Dark Sun and Ravenloft were around, too, but the idea of connecting them with magical space travel really didn't work well. Ravenloft is a demiplane, and a spelljamming helm would cause issues on Athas, so they weren't part of the overall goal -- though we did later find out that the Mists can reach into space to grab people.
So part of the design plan was that the big three settings were all contained within the larger Spelljammer setting... Spelljammer was literally what was going on over the heads of the folks on the ground on Faerūn.
But actual meaningful interaction? It didn't happen. They did push some Spelljammer stuff in, for a year or two, but such efforts petered off after a while. Later references popped up in places, but Spelljammer as a setting was quietly shuffled off to one side and forgotten.
Spelljammer was my first love of D&D settings, but it had its flaws. One of them was the fact that despite the intent of connecting the settings together, there didn't seem to be any coordination at all between the creative teams. Because of this, we have Spelljammer lore in the Krynnspace supplement that flat-out contradicts known Dragonlance lore (and some really weird ideas that I think never should have seen print), and Spelljammer lore in the Realmspace supplement that is entirely disconnected from any Realmlore (like a missing Moonshae castle or a group of Moonshae assassins never mentioned anywhere else).
I'm not sure there was an overall vision of where to take the Spelljammer setting after its initial development, either... There were some disconnected modules, a couple that tried to make a larger narrative, and that was about it.
I think another issue with Spelljammer was that too many people were thinking of space travel in real-world terms, and just couldn't accept things like someone strolling about, unprotected, on the deck of their wooden ship as it orbits a planet. That wasn't a design flaw, but it was something that helped doom the setting.
So, tl;dr answer: they pushed some Spelljammer into the Realms here and there and then forgot about it as Spelljammer was forgotten. |
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 22 Feb 2020 : 00:49:24
Master Rupert,
So, I really never did get into Spelljammer at all. I think I read a couple of things online years ago, but that was about it.
How does it associate with the Realms meaningfully?
Best regards,
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison
I think the wyvernwater has a lump of star metal at the bottom of it and I wouldn't be surprised if the wyvern crown was made of the stuff.
I'm still musing over the crystal grot but I recall the monarch mordant growing into an emerald tree when it crashed, what about something similar with sapphires in the stormhorns
The Monarch Mordent is not true emerald; it's not a precious metal or gemstone at all. It's more of an organic ceramic material.
Elven spelljammers are grown from starfly plants, and even after being grown into the shape of a Flitter, or Man-O-War, or Armada, they still continue to grow and have to periodically be pruned.
The Monarch Mordent has not received that kind of care in centuries, and being shot down by a demon means it's no longer in one piece -- so its scattered pieces have grown wild.
One does have to wonder exactly what happened to the helm that powered the ship -- Dretch has been looking for it but hasn't been able to find it. This implies that either the wreckage of the ship was scattered over a wide area -- or that someone came along afterward and did something with the helm. It could also be that the ship had some odd variant helm. It's too big for a crown of stars, but it could have had something unique or experimental on it.
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| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 22 Feb 2020 : 00:31:44
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison
I think the wyvernwater has a lump of star metal at the bottom of it and I wouldn't be surprised if the wyvern crown was made of the stuff.
I'm still musing over the crystal grot but I recall the monarch mordant growing into an emerald tree when it crashed, what about something similar with sapphires in the stormhorns
The Monarch Mordent is not true emerald; it's not a precious metal or gemstone at all. It's more of an organic ceramic material.
Elven spelljammers are grown from starfly plants, and even after being grown into the shape of a Flitter, or Man-O-War, or Armada, they still continue to grow and have to periodically be pruned.
The Monarch Mordent has not received that kind of care in centuries, and being shot down by a demon means it's no longer in one piece -- so its scattered pieces have grown wild.
One does have to wonder exactly what happened to the helm that powered the ship -- Dretch has been looking for it but hasn't been able to find it. This implies that either the wreckage of the ship was scattered over a wide area -- or that someone came along afterward and did something with the helm. It could also be that the ship had some odd variant helm. It's too big for a crown of stars, but it could have had something unique or experimental on it.
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| cpthero2 |
Posted - 22 Feb 2020 : 00:01:21
Eric,
I am all over that. I will be cracking that tonight! Thank you for that!
You know, one of the many things I love about this site is that I can come on here, talk about something like this and then you roll on in with: "BTW, I named that."
That's pretty damn cool if you ask me! :)
Best regards,
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
Star metal is defined in Volo's Guide to All Things Magical, page 51. It's another name for metallic meteorites.
Note that I named the range of hills that stretches from Berun's Hill to the Twilight Tor as the Star Metal Hills.
Implications to be worked out by the DM.
--Eric
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| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 21 Feb 2020 : 21:50:05
I think the wyvernwater has a lump of star metal at the bottom of it and I wouldn't be surprised if the wyvern crown was made of the stuff.
I'm still musing over the crystal grot but I recall the monarch mordant growing into an emerald tree when it crashed, what about something similar with sapphires in the stormhorns |
| ericlboyd |
Posted - 21 Feb 2020 : 21:43:20
Star metal is defined in Volo's Guide to All Things Magical, page 51. It's another name for metallic meteorites.
Note that I named the range of hills that stretches from Berun's Hill to the Twilight Tor as the Star Metal Hills.
Implications to be worked out by the DM.
--Eric |
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 21 Feb 2020 : 21:05:55
Master TBeholder,
BTW, speaking of 'meteorites': using Ragnorra as a planet wide destruction tool is great for a mega plot. ;)
**I think one of my players may be spying on this...**
Best regards,
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
As to meteoritic iron, maybe some interesting properties come from being dropped?
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
IIRC Mark Taylor awhile back was musing on Toril being frequently struck by meteors and THO agreed with his idea. That the scars of the impacts are all over the place. Star Mountains being one example. The Moonsea being created by a meteor strike is another.
If one chunk dropped in the middle of Faerun, many other impacts should be of the same origin.
IIRC the Tears of Selune were formed by the single catastrophe when the dragons tried to go all deathstar on King-Killer and missed?
Then most would not been captured on stable orbits, indeed. Most stones would fall either back or somewhere on Toril.
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| cpthero2 |
Posted - 20 Feb 2020 : 19:11:52
Great Reader Ayrik,
Thank you for this bet of info about the values, and even possibly the uses of it!
I think I have just found an additional story sub-arc to add to a campaign I am creating right now.
Best regards,
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
The 2E FRA had an entry for "Star metal" in the treasure tables. No description beyond it being a tiny scrap worth an outrageous 10000GP. As reference, "King's Tears" and "Star Rubies" commanded the next highest value, 5000GP.
The name "Star Metal" suggests a metal with meteoric origin. (Unlike "Star Ruby" named for the unusually rare and brilliant sunburst-like pattern of the crystal which sets it above "ordinary" rubies worth a paltry 1000GP each.)
The value of "Star Metal" suggests it's far more than a decorative curiosity. Perhaps it can be mixed into potent alloy for manufacturing weapons and armours. Perhaps it can be an exotic component for spells and rituals. Perhaps it's a wonderfully exotic alchemical reagent.
Numerous other references to "meteoric" metals were scattered throughout 1E and 2E. Invariably described as the stuff that went into a magical weapon, armour, or item. It was quite common to read generic "made of mysterious unknown metal which fell from the heavens" fluff text for magical adventuring gear. I think it's a legacy inspired from mythology, Tolkien, etc. Metal forged in the lights of the celestial heavens, exposed to strange cosmic radiations, etc.
3E evolved towards focus on the pure mechanical +bonus aspects of things, what stats it had mattered, what it was made of didn't.
What does Spelljammer lore have to say about meteorites? Are they mined (or rather, pursued and caught) to gather ordinary or extraordinary resources - or are they just navigational hazards?
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