| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Jindael |
Posted - 29 Apr 2005 : 21:42:33
From what I understand, when the gods were forced down, they had to choose a body to exist in to serve as their avatar, right? So, Tymora (For example) inhabited the body of a cleric of her faith for her time on the world.
Or were they just the gods themselves walking around?
If it's the first option, what happened to the people who served as hosts to the gods after the gods left?
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| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 19 Feb 2020 : 05:20:31
Great Reader Kuje,
What is your source on the ascension process? I'd love to read up on that.
Best regards,
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Forge
Ok, so how did Moander take control of the saurial tribe then if he was out of commission in the Realms? I recall the tale vaguely, of how he came across the planes to do so, but not sure of hte rationale..
Also, with Tymora's blessing or not, it still required the dismantling of a major artifact and the assistance of another Major Artifact (Alias) as well as the death ot Mystandperdenacticles(spelling? I'm not at home so I'm winging it.) in the process.
Because the saurial's were from a different crystal sphere or prime material, if you are using the 2e or 3e planes. So since they were not from toril's sphere/prime he had access to them.
And the only way to rise to deity hood in FR is through the help of another deity and with AO's permission. So yes Finder had help with the vessel, the dragon, and Tymora's and Selune's help.
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| Kuje |
Posted - 06 Jun 2005 : 16:08:22
quote:
Originally posted by Forge
Ok, so how did Moander take control of the saurial tribe then if he was out of commission in the Realms? I recall the tale vaguely, of how he came across the planes to do so, but not sure of hte rationale..
Also, with Tymora's blessing or not, it still required the dismantling of a major artifact and the assistance of another Major Artifact (Alias) as well as the death ot Mystandperdenacticles(spelling? I'm not at home so I'm winging it.) in the process.
Because the saurial's were from a different crystal sphere or prime material, if you are using the 2e or 3e planes. So since they were not from toril's sphere/prime he had access to them.
And the only way to rise to deity hood in FR is through the help of another deity and with AO's permission. So yes Finder had help with the vessel, the dragon, and Tymora's and Selune's help. |
| Forge |
Posted - 06 Jun 2005 : 15:51:18
Ok, so how did Moander take control of the saurial tribe then if he was out of commission in the Realms? I recall the tale vaguely, of how he came across the planes to do so, but not sure of hte rationale..
Also, with Tymora's blessing or not, it still required the dismantling of a major artifact and the assistance of another Major Artifact (Alias) as well as the death ot Mystandperdenacticles(spelling? I'm not at home so I'm winging it.) in the process. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 06 Jun 2005 : 02:44:23
quote:
Originally posted by Forge
I'm also curious because that makes me also curious about Finder. He slew Moander and presumably became a demi-power because of it, but I'm not finding anything really about his ascension or portfolio in the FR setting book.
The Rotting God, who was now a demipower, returned briefly to the Realms with the assistance of a tribe of saurials which he had enslaved. In the end however, Moander was driven back, and, ultimately defeated by a combination of brave warriors, exiles from another world, and the secretive Harpers.
To ensure his death, Moander would have to be slain on his home plane in the Abyss. And this is exactly what the powerful human bard, Finder Wyvernspur, did. After his fall, Finder then seized Moander's divine power. Speculation abounds that the Nameless Bard was aided by his patron deity, Lady Luck (perhaps explaining how a mortal could permanently slay a divine power).
Since that time, Finder has since become a deity in his own right, representing, among other things, the need for art to change to avoid the corruption that befalls it when it does not evolve.
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| Forge |
Posted - 05 Jun 2005 : 16:22:15
I'm assuming that much of the information on Lloth is based on 2d ed, because in FR 3.5 she doesn't have any of Moander's aspects listed.
I'm also curious because that makes me also curious about Finder. He slew Moander and presumably became a demi-power because of it, but I'm not finding anything really about his ascension or portfolio in the FR setting book. |
| Shadovar |
Posted - 05 Jun 2005 : 05:28:26
quote:
Originally posted by Adarin
Hello, I have a question, did Lolth the Spider Queen appear during the Time of Troubles, if so, she appeared in which form of avatar and what did she do during this Time of Troubles?
This is a bit complicated to answer...but to answer what she did in the Time of Troubles, well...here is something to answer, at best.:
quote:
Since the Time of Troubles, Lolth has assumed additional aspects as two
of her many stratagems to increase the ranks of her faithful and thus
her own personal power. In the drow city of Menzoberranzan, in the
Underdark beneath the North where Lolth-or Lloth, as she is known
there-appeared during the Time of Troubles, the Spider Queen has
allowed rumors to spread of a new demipower of chaos and assassins,
Zinzerena the Hunted. While Zinzer-ena was once a legendary drow
assassin and later an emerging demipower of a world other than
Abeir-Toril, the Spider Queen recently slew Zinzerena-or at least
banished her influence from the Realms-and assumed her aspect as a test
to see if additional divine aspects increased or decreased the total
(albeit fragmented) divine power available. In the Lands of Light,
Lolth has long found that the deeply imbued racial antipathy of the
surface elves toward the Spider Queen interferes with her attempts to
seduce otherwise eminently corruptible individuals. With the death of
Moander, always a more comprehensible (and tempting) force of evil to
the nature-loving surface elves than the Spider Queen, Lolth has
assumed the Darkbringer's aspect and portfolio of rotting death, decay,
and corruption and revived its cult in a bid to add elven, half-elven,
and human worshipers to the ranks of her faithful.
In answer to her avatar question, but the answer here may not be really related to the Time of Troubles.
quote:
Lolth can appear as a giant black widow spider with crimson eyes, or
she can change into the form of a human-sized, exquisitely beautiful
female drow. In this form she often clothes herself entirely in
clinging spiders, but sometimes wearing drow chain mail styled into
artful dresses or tunics. She can also combine the two forms, appearing
as a giant spider with a coldly beautiful female drow head. This is the
form in which she is usually found in the Abyss, and it is thought to
be her true form. Lolth can call on any sphere or school of magic for
her spells.
AC -2 (drow) or -4 (spider); MV 15 (drow) or 9, Wb 24 (spider); HP 210;
THAC0 1; #AT 1 or 3/1 (drow) or 3 (spider/drow) or 3 (spider)
Dmg 1d1O+9 (fist, +9 STR) or by drow weapon type (+3 drow weapon bonus,
+9 STR) (drow); ld4+special (webs) and 4d4+poison (bite) (spider/drow);
or 1d4+special (webs) and 4d4+poison (spider) MR 70%; SZ M (6 feet
tall-drow) or L (12 feet diameter-spider) STR 21,DEX 21,CoN 21,INT
21,WiS l7,CHA 23 (3 in spiderform)
Spells P: 12/12/11/10/9/9/9, W: 7/7/7/7/7/7/7/7/7
Saves PPDM 2, RSW 3, PP 4, BW 4, Sp 4
Special Att/Def: Statistics for Lolth's spider and combined spider/drow
form are nearly identical. Changing from drow form to either spider or
spider/drow form (or the reverse) takes an entire round, during which
Lolth can take no other action, is AC 0, and cannot use any spell-like
powers. Changing from spider form to spider/drow form (or the reverse)
is instantaneous.
When summoned to the Realms, Lolth likes to roam the Underdark, basking
in the terrified worship of drow. She customarily takes any magical
items they offer to her (or that strike her fancy). When encountered,
she typically has ld4 such items, of the DM's choice. She can employ
these in any form, regardless of class limitations. When she employs a
weapon or weapons in combat (she can fight two-handed when she desires
at no penalty), they are drow weapons of +3 enchantment of variable
type. Lolth can cast her priest and wizard spells only in drow form
and can then cast two spells in any round in which she forgos her
physical attack, rather than the normal one spell/one physical attack
sequence combat capabilities of avatars. In addition, Lolth can (in any
form) use any one of the following spell-like powers in a round at
will: charm arachnid (a spiders-only charm monster with no saving
throw; intelligent beings who have magically assumed spider form
receive saving throws vs. spell at a -5 penalty), comprehend languages,
confusion (creature looked at only-the victim need not meet Lolth's
gaze to be affected but gets a saving throw vs. paralyzation to avoid
the effects), darkness 15' radius, dispel magic, dimension door, ESP
(drow only, one target per round), summon spiders (01-20%: ld8+8 large
spiders; 21-50%: ld6+6 huge spiders; 51-90%: 2d4 giant spiders; 91-00%:
ld4 phase spiders), tongues, and true seeing. Lolth can use the
following spell-like powers once per day: change self, clairvoyance,
domination, mind blank, and Evard's black tentacles. The Spider Queen
can also cast phase door and read magic twice per day and heal three
times per day as spell-like abilities.
When in drow form, Lolth's direct physical embrace, if she wishes, can
act as a charm person (with a -4 penalty to saving throws vs. spell) on
a human or demihuman of either sex. She customarily leaves a poisonous
spider to aid, guard, and keep watch on someone who serves her, and
gives them any one magical item that she possesses or can seize.
In spider or spider/drow form, Lolth can cast up to 30-foot-long web
strands from her abdominal spinnerets. These webs are equal in effect
to a web spell and are covered with a flesh-corrosive secretion that
inflicts 1d4 points of damage per round of contact unless a successful
a saving throw vs. poison is rolled. Lolth can swivel her spinnerets to
fire in all directions (except through her own body) and can cast 2
strands per round as well as biting or using a spell-like power.
Lolth's bite does 4d4 points of damage; the victim must succeed at a
saving throw vs. poison at -4 or die in 1d2 rounds of in twitching
agony.
Lolth can only be struck by +2 or better magical weapons. She is immune
to all poisons. Cold and electrical attacks do only half damage, bur
Lolth suffers extra damage from holy water. (Each vial does 3d6+3
points of damage from a direct hit and 6 points of damage from a
splash.) She has 120-foot infravision and 90-foot-range telepathy. She
is not harmed or discomfited by light.
Lolth other manifestations are:
quote:
Lolth rarely aids her worshipers directly, preferring to watch and
enjoy their sufferings and struggles. If she wants someone to know that
she is watching, Lolth causes a smirking pair of sensuous lips to
appear on any spider present. The spider is always outlined in a
flickering purple faerie fire. If no spider is present, Lolth creates a
smiling, spider-shaped shadow of giant size.
More rarely, Lolth acts directly. In such cases, her power may be seen
as a flickering black, mauve-edged radiance around a person or object
temporarily imbued with her power. The Spider Queen's power typically
gives one or both of the following aids to affected things: double
damage (triple
to giant-type creatures) or immunity to breakage or other damage
(automatic success on all item saving throws). It also gives any or all
of the following aids to affected beings for 1 turn: the ability to
strike first in any combat round, a +4 bonus to Armor Class, and a
three-level improvement in fighting ability. (For this lasts, phantom
hit points are gained and all damage inflicted is subtracted from these
points first; when the phantom points disappear at the end of the turn,
only any excess damage is actually suffered by the character.)
Lolth's laughter-soft, cruel feminine chuckling-is often heard by drow
who have lost her favor or who have gone mad. It is also heard by foes
of the drow, especially when beings of these sorts are alone and/or
fleeing in the endless caverns and passages of the Underdark. Beings of
less than 2 Hit Dice flee uncontrollably, as if affected by a fear
spell, until they die, are knocked unconscious, or can hear her
laughter no more.
|
| Adarin |
Posted - 05 Jun 2005 : 05:18:00
Hello, I have a question, did Lolth the Spider Queen appear during the Time of Troubles, if so, she appeared in which form of avatar and what did she do during this Time of Troubles? |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 04 Jun 2005 : 04:55:01
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
Well summed up, Wooly, thank you for that rare burst of clarity. I guess I need to stop spreading rumors of your locations to the Minoi (all it's been doing is sending them scrambling in the opposite direction, unfortunately. sigh. they just aren't the commando-vengeance-squad type).
Yeah, stop doing that. I prefer it when my food isn't running away from me.   |
| Hoondatha |
Posted - 04 Jun 2005 : 03:54:11
Well summed up, Wooly, thank you for that rare burst of clarity. I guess I need to stop spreading rumors of your locations to the Minoi (all it's been doing is sending them scrambling in the opposite direction, unfortunately. sigh. they just aren't the commando-vengeance-squad type). |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 03 Jun 2005 : 17:33:07
quote:
Originally posted by Forge
Ok, so then can we discuss perhaps what the difference is between the avatars and what was done to Elminster during that time? I've always had a hard time wrapping my mind around specifically what happened with him. Maybe I missed something in the text. (ref: Elminster, Time of Troubles)
Elminster was acting like a battery or a capacitor. He had some of Mystra's power, but was still in full control of himself and was the only entity in his body.
Avatars during the ToT were people whose bodies were actually inhabited by their deity. In some cases, they shared, with the deity riding shotgun to the host's mind and desires. The deity would occasionally assert control, but would otherwise leave the person in charge. In other cases, the deity took over the body, but left the host's mind and soul intact within. When the deity ascended at the end of the ToT, the host went back to being a normal person. And in still other cases, the deity took over the body and kicked out the current inhabitant. The body was still alive, and was directly controlled by the deity, but the person originally occupying it was dead. |
| Forge |
Posted - 03 Jun 2005 : 14:13:43
Ok, so then can we discuss perhaps what the difference is between the avatars and what was done to Elminster during that time? I've always had a hard time wrapping my mind around specifically what happened with him. Maybe I missed something in the text. (ref: Elminster, Time of Troubles) |
| The Sage |
Posted - 03 Jun 2005 : 06:24:20
I know  . I was just curious as to whether you'd take the bait...  .
|
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 03 Jun 2005 : 05:35:32
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Rad
quote:
Originally posted by Alaundo
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I was referring to an actual avatar of a deity in my last post.
Put that tongue away, Wooly, before I cut it off
I'm sure that one day soon we're gonna get served up with Hamster Pie at this rate 
Let me just get a knife and a fork .
You do realize the joke that is just begging to be made in response to that statement, correct? |
| The Sage |
Posted - 03 Jun 2005 : 02:55:20
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Rad
quote:
Originally posted by Alaundo
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I was referring to an actual avatar of a deity in my last post.
Put that tongue away, Wooly, before I cut it off
I'm sure that one day soon we're gonna get served up with Hamster Pie at this rate
Let me just get a knife and a fork .
|
| Lord Rad |
Posted - 02 Jun 2005 : 23:19:12
quote:
Originally posted by Alaundo
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I was referring to an actual avatar of a deity in my last post.
Put that tongue away, Wooly, before I cut it off
I'm sure that one day soon we're gonna get served up with Hamster Pie at this rate |
| Alaundo |
Posted - 02 Jun 2005 : 23:04:45
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I was referring to an actual avatar of a deity in my last post.
Put that tongue away, Wooly, before I cut it off |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 02 Jun 2005 : 19:47:18
quote:
Originally posted by Alaundo
Well met
Hmmmm Ahem, anyway, can we please keep this scroll to actual avatars of the deities. If any wish to know more or ask questions regarding Candlekeep avatar portraits, then please see this scroll.
Thank ye.
I was referring to an actual avatar of a deity in my last post. |
| Alaundo |
Posted - 02 Jun 2005 : 17:39:02
Well met
Hmmmm Ahem, anyway, can we please keep this scroll to actual avatars of the deities. If any wish to know more or ask questions regarding Candlekeep avatar portraits, then please see this scroll.
Thank ye. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 02 Jun 2005 : 17:13:18
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Darth KTrava
Didn't even know you could have custom avatars here....
Slip a sack of gold pieces to the webmaster and many things are possible.
Yeah, but he can't hook me up with an avatar of Sune. |
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 02 Jun 2005 : 13:50:29
quote:
Originally posted by Darth KTrava
Didn't even know you could have custom avatars here....
Slip a sack of gold pieces to the webmaster and many things are possible. |
| Darth KTrava |
Posted - 01 Jun 2005 : 04:32:28
quote:
Originally posted by Alaundo
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Big Al has to approve it, though. He shot me down, initially. (He obviously later consented to change my avatar  )
Well met
Aye, I couldn't resist that cheeky face
I was getting all manner of silly avatars however, some were not keeping in with the theme of fantasy and the Realms and I still believe we should stick to this flavor
That works... I'll think about this when, and if, I get a good pic of my cleric of Torm....
|
| Alaundo |
Posted - 25 May 2005 : 08:56:51
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Big Al has to approve it, though. He shot me down, initially. (He obviously later consented to change my avatar )
Well met
Aye, I couldn't resist that cheeky face
I was getting all manner of silly avatars however, some were not keeping in with the theme of fantasy and the Realms and I still believe we should stick to this flavor |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 25 May 2005 : 00:14:45
quote:
Originally posted by Darth KTrava
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Continuing with the subject of *avatars*... I noted your new image as well. How did that come about?
Even guys wish a change in style sometimes. 
Didn't even know you could have custom avatars here....
Big Al has to approve it, though. He shot me down, initially. (He obviously later consented to change my avatar ) |
| Darth KTrava |
Posted - 24 May 2005 : 22:39:30
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Continuing with the subject of *avatars*... I noted your new image as well. How did that come about?
Even guys wish a change in style sometimes.
Didn't even know you could have custom avatars here....
|
| Hoondatha |
Posted - 03 May 2005 : 00:52:22
quote:
Originally posted by Jindael
Wow! Where is that from?
The North, page 50. It's actually called the Stone Bridge. Since I don't know the policy of posting info from titles, I'll summarize most of the description.
It was built by the dwarves 5000 years ago over the River Dessarin. It's a simple arc, without any supports, two miles in length, 100 feet wide, and 400 feet above the river. It's considered a temple to Moradin, and he's appeared on it several times in the past, including once to save the shattered remnants of the Ironstar clan.
The description ends with: "Moradin, when banished to Faerūn during the Time of Troubles, stood guard on the Stone Bridge, barring the passage of a number of evil avatars who sought to reach the Celestial Stairway at Waterdeep and cause mischief along the way." |
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 02 May 2005 : 03:41:42
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Continuing with the subject of *avatars*... I noted your new image as well. How did that come about?
Even guys wish a change in style sometimes. |
| Kuje |
Posted - 02 May 2005 : 03:14:39
Off topic: I wish I can see avatars. :( Silly Firefox still hates them since the upgrade. :) |
| The Sage |
Posted - 02 May 2005 : 02:58:17
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Thank you for making me spill my morning tea all over my workstation...  .
You know by now not to have liquids near workstations. The army actually had that in one of their regulations on computers.
And speaking of avatars so my post is somewhat on topic, where did you find your new avatar? Self-portrait?
Okay, now that I've had a chance to clean up the mess...
It is actually, a rough approximation of myself, as rendered by the Lady K and several other artists from about 3 years ago. I no longer have the ponytail hairstyle, but I still do have to wear reading glasses, so the image is semi-accurate.
Continuing with the subject of *avatars*... I noted your new image as well. How did that come about?
|
| Jindael |
Posted - 02 May 2005 : 02:43:10
Wow! Where is that from? |
| Hoondatha |
Posted - 02 May 2005 : 02:41:35
My personal favorite of the gods during the ToT is Moradin. He stood on the Long Bridge (only way for hundreds of miles to cross the river Rauvin [I think]) and dared a half dozen avatars of evil gods to pass him. None did, and therefore none were able to make it to Waterdeep and cause chaos there.
Man I wish there was a short story about that. Or even an EC Danilo bardic ballad. |
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