| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Naeryndam |
Posted - 18 Feb 2022 : 05:22:56
In light of the other elf thread we have going on, I started thinking about Elain's novel, 'Evermeet' and the origin of the elves of Faerun. We all know WOTC is moving away from focusing on FR as much, so I know something as obscure as Tintageer will most likely never be covered again.
Even so, with the new Wild Beyond the Witchlight adventure and focus on the Feywild, I wonder if/how Tintageer would fit into the contemporary understanding of the Feywild. Are there pseudo-Sun Elf Eladrin? Did any other elves escape the collapse of that realm and still reside in the Feywild? What about Sharlario's Moon Elf/Eladrin homeland? Where was Tintageer in relation to the Seelie/Unseelie Courts and the Realms of Delight? etc etc.
Curious what my fellow scribes think as I try to reconcile past lore with present-day lore! |
| 26 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 21 Feb 2022 : 22:07:14
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
And that would be one major difference between it and the Feywild, as the ORIGINAL representation of the "feywild" was one which mirrored the prime with a more positive light.
...Which would be another reason to run with my idea that the Feywild lies "between" Faerie and the Prime.
Yep, and another reason to possibly link the "Feywild" and the "Spirit World" as the descriptions for the two are fairly similar (except for the spirit world having ancestor spirits from some cultures, rather than them going to the outer planes). Like, a waterfall in the real world would be "more majestic" in the spirit world. It was also full of fey.
I would think it seems like we are going down two paths now... one in which Faerie is the name of a world where SOME elves and Tintageer were, and one which is a plane filled with fey (which may include more elves). Sometimes, there is more than one place called Paris... maybe there's more than one place called Faerie. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 21 Feb 2022 : 21:06:56
Feywild is a rough approximation of the material plane, and Faerie is a rough approximation of the Feywild.
Given how chinese whispers can distort a sentence, its entirely likely Faerie is a completely abstract representation when compared to the Material |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 21 Feb 2022 : 19:38:57
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
And that would be one major difference between it and the Feywild, as the ORIGINAL representation of the "feywild" was one which mirrored the prime with a more positive light.
...Which would be another reason to run with my idea that the Feywild lies "between" Faerie and the Prime. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 21 Feb 2022 : 13:31:04
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-I never used planar cosmology as presented in D&D books. With the Plane of Faerie, was there anything in any of the books that said that it had to mirror the Prime in terms of geography and such?
I'm fairly certain that one of the few constants in the many treatments I've seen of Faerie is that it not only does not mirror the Prime, it has a high degree of geographic improbabilities, when compared to the Prime. Distances are not constant, you can have conflicting geographies and weather patterns side by side, locations that move, that kind of thing.
And that would be one major difference between it and the Feywild, as the ORIGINAL representation of the "feywild" was one which mirrored the prime with a more positive light. |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 21 Feb 2022 : 01:20:43
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'm fairly certain that one of the few constants in the many treatments I've seen of Faerie is that it not only does not mirror the Prime, it has a high degree of geographic improbabilities, when compared to the Prime. Distances are not constant, you can have conflicting geographies and weather patterns side by side, locations that move, that kind of thing.
-Doiiiiii. Ugh, that's right, not sure how that slipped my mind.
-Anyway, brought it up cause, since that's the case, there's no need for anywhere on the Plane of Faerie (Tintageer) to be conterminous with anywhere on the Material Plane (Evermeet) for things to make sense. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 20 Feb 2022 : 17:56:23
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-I never used planar cosmology as presented in D&D books. With the Plane of Faerie, was there anything in any of the books that said that it had to mirror the Prime in terms of geography and such?
I'm fairly certain that one of the few constants in the many treatments I've seen of Faerie is that it not only does not mirror the Prime, it has a high degree of geographic improbabilities, when compared to the Prime. Distances are not constant, you can have conflicting geographies and weather patterns side by side, locations that move, that kind of thing. |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 20 Feb 2022 : 17:21:25
-I never used planar cosmology as presented in D&D books. With the Plane of Faerie, was there anything in any of the books that said that it had to mirror the Prime in terms of geography and such? |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 19 Feb 2022 : 18:06:39
So, just to lay out some of what I just thought through for myself and allow folks to poke holes in it easier
Coliar is destroyed cataclysmically. Dust from its destruction fills Toril's atmosphere, creating an ice age. Dragons survive on "earth motes"/"earth islands" of Coliar, where they are respected by the "lizard folk" and "bird folk" that live there. They learn to transcend their bodies, becoming "air dragons" that can roam the crystal sphere. Some of these "great dragons" come across the "Estelar" or "fledgling gods" and the spirits of these dragons are entrapped.
Bird Folk/Lizard Folk learn to "pilot" earthmotes/earth islands and water islands of Coliar, and they travel to Toril, a world rich in resources. Their "water islands" freeze as they get farther from the sun. They also discover that several of their "dragon gods" have been entrapped. They decide to free them and begin a plot.
The batrachi war with Annam's children and are losing. They learn of some entrapped primordials from some new friends they make. They go to the Hills of the Seven Lost Gods and release primordial beings of great power, one of which was Asgorath the Dragon. This dragon hurls a great water island of Coliar that has frozen... or ice comet, (or crystal sun.... possibly a great sphere of ice entrapping fire breathing dragons and their eggs) at Toril, using his breath to break its outer layers. Dragon eggs rain down. The batrachi civilization is destroyed, the Aereee become dominant..... tears appear and the stars are different.
Elves on homeworld of Faerie have their moon explode. They escape to Toril via portals.... maybe tears appear.
Elves on Toril get dominated by dragons and seek to overthrow them. Within a single elven lifetime (400 years) the Dracorage Mythal is stood up and tied to the King Killer's Star comet.
During "the last days of the Reign of Dragons" dragons meet at the Hills of the Seven Lost Gods and they focus the Weave into a weapon of unparalleled might that could shatter the Drifting Stars into clouds of rubble in the heavens above. Kisonraathiisar believe that this weapon hit our moon "a glancing blow" and created the Tears of Selune, and believes that the dragons were aiming for the comet. In truth, the dragons were aiming for the moon of the world of Faerie, in the past, to prevent the elves ever arriving here (they hoped to kill them before they could leave their world).
The elves decide to save their own people by piggybacking on the dragon's earlier casting, so they gather at the same place, and they cast the Elven Sundering, pulling Tintageer and some other portions of the world of Faerie in the past to Toril. In the same casting, they create a linkage to the earlier ritual cast by the batrachi. Their spell to "copy" portions of Faerie interacts with the batrachi magic, and portions of Toril are "copied to a new world. Oddly enough the interaction of all this magic ALSO hooks into the earlier ritual by the dragons to fire a weapon "capable of shattering drifting stars" and it links even further back in time.... releasing Asgorath who is the source of the "dragon laser" come to find out... and so the "dragon laser" shoots out and hits the ice comet in -31,000 DR.... and hits Coliar in -35000 DR... and hits Faerie's moon in -25400 DR..... and has possibly shot out some times since, since we know Tears have appeared at other times, and eggs have fallen at other times. The newly copied world of Abeir has its atmosphere COATED with material from Coliar's destruction, creating "the steelsky"
At some point, the Imaskari must go to Abeir. They somehow learn to extend the god barrier of Abeir to prevent the Mulan gods from coming to rescue their people. They release a being known as Pandorym. They separate this being into parts, one of which is Entropy "the God Swallower", and they hope to use this being to threaten the gods of the Mulan should they ever need.
Then just prior to the spellplague, some gith works a powerful magic to create an eclipse and cause dragon eggs to fall from the sky (almost like he had some agreement with a dragon deity) and the magic controlling the king killer star is destroyed.... all around the same time that Bahamut and Tiamat start interacting with the world again (and Tiamat becomes "involved" with entropy).... the gods are cast out of the heavens so Ao can do some kind of upkeep and change the rules on how gods survive (possibly so he can harvest the weak ones to save his own skin?)... Ao destroys the Imaskari Godswall, which may have also destroyed it in Abeir as well.... and "suddenly" there is some kind of interaction between the three worlds again.
EDIT: Some further possible twists... the effect that destroys Coliar is still involving a breath being "fired" by Asgorath.... but possibly its directed at H'Catha, which is a focal point for similar rays coming from other planets.... that then fires the "combined breath of light" at a giant black crystal at the center of the crystal sphere. This crystal refracts the light, carving the runes on the inner shell of the crystal sphere and opening portals to the plane of radiance that serve as "stars". Meanwhile, the dragon's breath sets fire to the crystal, forcing portals to the plane of fire to be created. The sun is born.
This act of carving runes onto the shell of the crystal sphere allows this crystal sphere to start drawing power from another crystal sphere.... a crystal sphere of amazing magical power and possibility... the sphere containing the world of "Faerie". Periodically the planets of that crystal sphere and this crystal sphere "align" and when that happens its possible to traverse from one to the other easily. The crystal sphere that contains "Faerie" also contains the "orc world" that the orcgate opened to. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 19 Feb 2022 : 16:35:22
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
And for all we know they could all be out of synch with one another ala the Abeir / Toril thing. Maybe there aren't just two worlds involved in that fiasco, but actually three.... or more.
Funny you should say that ... that's another of the Realms "if onlys" that the 5E team had a golden opportunity to sort out as grognards were harnessed for a cringy Sundering PR campaign ... but didn't.
-- George Krashos
Yeah, the more I think on it, the more I'm thinking it should be that there are three "planets" involved with the spellplague/sundering. To note, we can have two "Faerie" locations. One might be a plane. Another might be a world that a specific group of elves migrated to OR started at. Just like they came to Toril and named it "Faerun"... maybe originally "Faeryn" for all we know. But it might work best that the spellplague involved the interaction of 3 worlds (Abeir, Toril, and "Faerie") and the sages just don't realize it because nothing from Faerie CAME TO Toril during the spellplague.... just things WENT TO Faerie from Toril.
From my perspective, that lets us bring back Nimbral with a much larger fey connection than it had. It might also be an outpost for the Elven Imperial Navy.
A place like Lantan might come back from Faerie with a much stronger focus on artificers (not that it didn't have that, but they were also mechanical/clockwork).
In that same perspective, we've been very focused on the world of Toril and what lands on it "exchanged". One thing I'd been playing with was that portions of the moon may have also exchanged with Abeir during the spellplague.... but that could also be turned another way as well. We could send portions of the moon to Faerie and have it come back. The tears of Selune, we might come to realize, had some kind of link to this "crossover" of lands as well.... as well as the tidal wave in Tintageer. For instance, maybe the "moon" of Faerie is shattered, and portions came to this world.... and maybe the dragon laser that missed the King Killer Comet didn't hit OUR moon, but the ELVES moon on "Faerie".... again from the Hill of the Seven Lost Gods.
Also, in doing this, we have much less likelihood of "this land went to the place where dragons rule everything and was dominated and its people enslaved". |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 19 Feb 2022 : 02:08:16
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
And for all we know they could all be out of synch with one another ala the Abeir / Toril thing. Maybe there aren't just two worlds involved in that fiasco, but actually three.... or more.
Funny you should say that ... that's another of the Realms "if onlys" that the 5E team had a golden opportunity to sort out as grognards were harnessed for a cringy Sundering PR campaign ... but didn't.
-- George Krashos |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 19 Feb 2022 : 01:28:31
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison
I see no reason to distinguish between plane and planet in this instance.
Bear with me a moment while i try and explain.
We live in a 4 dimensional universe.
DnD and FR do not necessarily. The very existence of Abeir and Toril existing in the same space but separated points to the idea that the DnD multiverse is separated by another dimension.
There are core sources that define Faerie as a Plane. Other sources say that Toril was once more closely linked with Toril.
If Faerie was indeed a coexistent plane with the material plane, then that means the two planes are separated by a 5th dimension. What exists on one plane has an analogue in the other. Therefore the planet of Toril on the Material Plane would have a planet on the Plane of Faerie.
If that is true then both the plane and planet of faerie are true, one is within the other, it also means that events in Toril would have an effect on Faerie. It also works nicely with recent changes where there are multiple material planes with mirror worlds and shadows of the same being on each (dragons).
Thats my explanation anyway. I will of course be referring to the 5th Dimension as Entropy (a nod to the OD&D boxed sets).
And for all we know they could all be out of synch with one another ala the Abeir / Toril thing. Maybe there aren't just two worlds involved in that fiasco, but actually three.... or more. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 19 Feb 2022 : 01:22:58
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison
I see no reason to distinguish between plane and planet in this instance.
Bear with me a moment while i try and explain.
We live in a 4 dimensional universe.
DnD and FR do not necessarily. The very existence of Abeir and Toril existing in the same space but separated points to the idea that the DnD multiverse is separated by another dimension.
There are core sources that define Faerie as a Plane. Other sources say that Toril was once more closely linked with Toril.
If Faerie was indeed a coexistent plane with the material plane, then that means the two planes are separated by a 5th dimension. What exists on one plane has an analogue in the other. Therefore the planet of Toril on the Material Plane would have a planet on the Plane of Faerie.
If that is true then both the plane and planet of faerie are true, one is within the other, it also means that events in Toril would have an effect on Faerie. It also works nicely with recent changes where there are multiple material planes with mirror worlds and shadows of the same being on each (dragons).
Thats my explanation anyway. I will of course be referring to the 5th Dimension as Entropy (a nod to the OD&D boxed sets).
But D&D has long made the distinction between planets and planes. The two are not synonymous. And nothing implies that any given world is multiplanar. |
| Steven Schend |
Posted - 18 Feb 2022 : 19:35:08
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I happen to rather like the version of Faerie presented in the old 3E, 3rd party book Faeries, from Bastion Press. This particular spin allows me to reconcile my preferences with official canon.
Thanks for that, Wooly! Bryon Wischstadt (designer) & I (as editor) worked very hard to come up with an all-encompassing Faerie for that product that spanned folklore, mythology, & D&D equally.
Steven |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 18 Feb 2022 : 19:17:44
I see no reason to distinguish between plane and planet in this instance.
Bear with me a moment while i try and explain.
We live in a 4 dimensional universe.
DnD and FR do not necessarily. The very existence of Abeir and Toril existing in the same space but separated points to the idea that the DnD multiverse is separated by another dimension.
There are core sources that define Faerie as a Plane. Other sources say that Toril was once more closely linked with Toril.
If Faerie was indeed a coexistent plane with the material plane, then that means the two planes are separated by a 5th dimension. What exists on one plane has an analogue in the other. Therefore the planet of Toril on the Material Plane would have a planet on the Plane of Faerie.
If that is true then both the plane and planet of faerie are true, one is within the other, it also means that events in Toril would have an effect on Faerie. It also works nicely with recent changes where there are multiple material planes with mirror worlds and shadows of the same being on each (dragons).
Thats my explanation anyway. I will of course be referring to the 5th Dimension as Entropy (a nod to the OD&D boxed sets).
|
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 18 Feb 2022 : 18:59:30
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
I admire your efforts to retcon but that’s all you are doing: retconning a square 2E peg into a round 4E/5E hole. There is zero need for the gold and silver elves to have come from the “Feywild” (whatever that is). They came from Faerie. A ‘world’ as sleyvas points out - not a plane. Another world on the Prime. But keep going fellows, it’s always fun to speculate. Especially with Eric’s insertion of the “backwards and forwards through the mists of time” line which we were forced to use when Rich Baker totally ignored the first Sundering dating that was suggested to him for “Lost Empires of Faerűn” because … I guess he knew better.
— George Krashos
Good point on the world statement. That actually might help separate the two a lot more. We say world, and maybe we might even call it "crystal sphere".... just like the realms which has "Toril" is in Realmspace. So, maybe the "Faeriespace" crystal sphere? Possibly even the home realm of the Elven Imperial Navy? Has that ever been detailed? Not really a sage on spelljammer, though I'm picking it up here and there as I find out things that were published.
I've not perused my Spelljammer stuff in quite some time, but unless it was in one of the modules dealing with the Second Unhuman War, I don't think we ever got anything resembling info on either an elven home world or where their HQ was. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 18 Feb 2022 : 18:44:59
quote:
Originally posted by Naeryndam
Well I really wasn't trying to start an argument about this. I am ok with Faerie being a world or being in the Feywild, I just find elven lore fascinating for whatever reason and was curious. That being said on page 4 of 'The Wild Beyond the Witchlight' it states, "Also known as the Plane of Faerie, the Feywild is a place of wonder and whimsy". Not sure how else to take this quote. Personally, I like the idea of Faerie being the name of the plane and the Feywild being just one part of it. I guess this is what George is referring to by retconning though and maybe the best thing is to keep 2E/3E separate from 4E/5E, which is very irritating from a lore perspective. I'm just trying to tie a few canon products together and keep things consistent in my head.
Don't worry, nothing ever happens unless people speak their mind and throw things out. People just have to be able to accept that sometimes their ideas either are great OR suck OR can be twisted in a new way.... and what works for one person won't work for another. A lot of times around here, great ideas come from small observations by someone that was only tangentially reading something. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 18 Feb 2022 : 18:38:07
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
I admire your efforts to retcon but that’s all you are doing: retconning a square 2E peg into a round 4E/5E hole. There is zero need for the gold and silver elves to have come from the “Feywild” (whatever that is). They came from Faerie. A ‘world’ as sleyvas points out - not a plane. Another world on the Prime. But keep going fellows, it’s always fun to speculate. Especially with Eric’s insertion of the “backwards and forwards through the mists of time” line which we were forced to use when Rich Baker totally ignored the first Sundering dating that was suggested to him for “Lost Empires of Faerűn” because … I guess he knew better.
— George Krashos
Good point on the world statement. That actually might help separate the two a lot more. We say world, and maybe we might even call it "crystal sphere".... just like the realms which has "Toril" is in Realmspace. So, maybe the "Faeriespace" crystal sphere? Possibly even the home realm of the Elven Imperial Navy? Has that ever been detailed? Not really a sage on spelljammer, though I'm picking it up here and there as I find out things that were published. |
| Naeryndam |
Posted - 18 Feb 2022 : 16:50:05
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
As I've mentioned before, I like to think of the Feywild as being kind of an intermediate plane, between Faerie and the Prime. It's more like Faerie than the Prime, and is easier to access, but it's not the same thing.
This is due to my own personal bias. I think the Feywild was another of those "change for change's sake" things, and I happen to rather like the version of Faerie presented in the old 3E, 3rd party book Faeries, from Bastion Press. This particular spin allows me to reconcile my preferences with official canon.
I really liked that book too. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 18 Feb 2022 : 16:46:55
As I've mentioned before, I like to think of the Feywild as being kind of an intermediate plane, between Faerie and the Prime. It's more like Faerie than the Prime, and is easier to access, but it's not the same thing.
This is due to my own personal bias. I think the Feywild was another of those "change for change's sake" things, and I happen to rather like the version of Faerie presented in the old 3E, 3rd party book Faeries, from Bastion Press. This particular spin allows me to reconcile my preferences with official canon. |
| Naeryndam |
Posted - 18 Feb 2022 : 15:57:22
Well I really wasn't trying to start an argument about this. I am ok with Faerie being a world or being in the Feywild, I just find elven lore fascinating for whatever reason and was curious. That being said on page 4 of 'The Wild Beyond the Witchlight' it states, "Also known as the Plane of Faerie, the Feywild is a place of wonder and whimsy". Not sure how else to take this quote. Personally, I like the idea of Faerie being the name of the plane and the Feywild being just one part of it. I guess this is what George is referring to by retconning though and maybe the best thing is to keep 2E/3E separate from 4E/5E, which is very irritating from a lore perspective. I'm just trying to tie a few canon products together and keep things consistent in my head.
|
| Steven Schend |
Posted - 18 Feb 2022 : 15:05:08
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
I admire your efforts to retcon but that’s all you are doing: retconning a square 2E peg into a round 4E/5E hole. There is zero need for the gold and silver elves to have come from the “Feywild” (whatever that is). They came from Faerie. A ‘world’ as sleyvas points out - not a plane. Another world on the Prime. But keep going fellows, it’s always fun to speculate. Especially with Eric’s insertion of the “backwards and forwards through the mists of time” line which we were forced to use when Rich Baker totally ignored the first Sundering dating that was suggested to him for “Lost Empires of Faerűn” because … I guess he knew better.
— George Krashos
Another argument as to elves coming from a world rather than a plane comes from the large presence elves had in SPELLJAMMER. Sure they can planewalk and teleport and all that, but for full colonization or invasions, one needs large troop carriers and transport ships like the Elven Armada and Man o' War.
Steven |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 18 Feb 2022 : 14:14:54
We could also take that sentence literally... It specifically says, emphasis mine, "home world." If we take this literally, it could mean there were two places called Faerie -- the plane where fae and other critters hang out, and a planet on the Prime that was named after the plane.
Maybe elves originated on the plane of Faerie, and eventually migrated to the Prime. And the Prime world they settled on, they named after their original home.
As for this home world having been affected by the elven Sundering? Meh, that doesn't work for me. The elven Sundering was complicated enough without bringing in the original Tintageer. I think tossing that angle in makes an already messy scenario even more of a mess, and I favor simpler solutions, most of the time.
Though one thing that's kind of interesting, when you think about it... Why would the people of Tintageer flee to another world? Regardless of whether Tintageer was on the plane of Faerie or a world named Faerie, you'd think a disaster befalling an island nation would send refuges to the closest safe landmass. The people of Tintageer fleeing to another world indicates they didn't think that staying on the same plane/world was an option, which begs the question of why they felt that way. The two most obvious implications are that either the disaster was global, or the disaster was invoked by someone and the elves felt they'd find no safe haven on that world.
Edit: Hmm, Krash was suggesting the world thing at the same time I was. I am pleased to be on the same page as him, with something like this!  |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 18 Feb 2022 : 14:02:35
I admire your efforts to retcon but that’s all you are doing: retconning a square 2E peg into a round 4E/5E hole. There is zero need for the gold and silver elves to have come from the “Feywild” (whatever that is). They came from Faerie. A ‘world’ as sleyvas points out - not a plane. Another world on the Prime. But keep going fellows, it’s always fun to speculate. Especially with Eric’s insertion of the “backwards and forwards through the mists of time” line which we were forced to use when Rich Baker totally ignored the first Sundering dating that was suggested to him for “Lost Empires of Faerűn” because … I guess he knew better.
— George Krashos |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 18 Feb 2022 : 13:09:57
I agree with Gary in that it was hinted that Tintageer came from "Faerie" and his idea of there being some kind of difference (not fully spelled out) between the feywild and faerie. This is cemented by statements like the below in GHotR.
from GHotR
c. –25400 DR
Fleeing the destruction of the island kingdom of Tintageer on their home world of Faerie, a small circle of gold elves led by the young prince Durothil cast a divination to find their new home—on the world of Toril—and then create a portal leading there. The refugees name their new home Faerűn, the One Land. Integrating into the native green elf communities, the descendants of the gold elves of Tintageer become known as sun elves, while the descendants of the sole silver elf refugee, Sharlario Moonflower, become known as moon elves.
I'd never thought much about it until now with this topic.... but just to play "what if" for a second.... and this does follow Gary's line of thought to a degree
What if the island kingdom of Tintageer was "destroyed" and it "wasn't destroyed".... what if the elven High Magic of the Sundering brought a COPY of Tintageer (including all people's living there at the time being transferred to the copy) to Toril in an attempt not to create a new homeland, but an attempt to rescue the people that had been left behind and killed by the tidal wave? This leaves a "dead land" where some tidal wave disaster killed everyone back in the plane of Faerie, and this helps explain what came to Toril during the spellplague. That "dead land" is the original Tintageer, and it had very few elves living on it because those elves were maybe the descendants of those that survived.
Throw in a further twist... elven High Mages threaten a human civilization known as Jhaamdath with a tidal wave. In doing so, they destroy an undersea population of sea elves. What if the tidal wave that destroys the island kingdom of Tintageer can be equated back to some sea elven High Mage sending a copy of that magic back in time in an attempt to stop those very same elves from ever coming to Toril? Or what if the tidal wave hitting the Hills of Seven Lost Gods somehow interacted with the High Magic ritual of the elven sundering (which may have been performed there), and that creaed the tidal wave in Faerie by the mixing of the two High Magics?
Further along these lines, what if the "island kingdoms of Tintageer" wasn't just Evermeet. What if it was Evermeet and its surrounding islands, Nimbral, Lantan, and maybe even Laerakond..... and maybe even "the islands of Anchorome". Then, at some point in history, we have Laerakond transfer to Abeir and the "land of Maztica" (a copy of Laerakond that had been left in the feywild) comes from the feywild and inserts itself where Laerakond had been.
This could be a convenient way to explain the sudden disappearance of Lantan, Nimbral, Evermeet, and the migration of Laerakond back to Toril all at the same time. So, some places went to Abeir (for instance Maztica, Lopango, the continent faerunians were calling Anchoromer, Katashaka, etc..) and some places went to the Feywild (Evermeet, Nimbral, Lantan). Laerakond TRIED to go back to the Feywild, but it had to transition back from Abeir first, through Toril, and got "stuck". This caused a violent shifting of all the lands around Maztica and sent them to Abeir. In other words... an imperfect mess occurred. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 18 Feb 2022 : 07:56:22
I assumed tintageer was on the faerie plane where the elves are supposed to have come from. I also (maybe mistakenly) assume feywild is just a small part of the faerie plane (most often associated with the moonshae isles and so on a coexistent plane it would be situated "on top" of the moonshaes in faerie.
If I remember correctly, tintageer was destroyed by some natural disaster (I forget if it was detailed). When Evermeet was created the magic stretched backwards and forwards in time, and if the plane of faerie was coexistent way back when in faeruns history (faerie is often described as long ago being much more closely connected to faerun) then the huge magical changes to faerun would be reflected in faerie.
So my idea is that elves migrate to toril, created Evermeet and that destroyed tintageer in faerie causing the elves to migrate to toril. It also causes the timeline of toril to separate, so shalarion and atornash never existed in the current timeline, which is why no one can find them or know where they are. |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 18 Feb 2022 : 07:32:38
I think the beginning of Evermeet makes it clear that Tintageer was on another material plane, not in the Feywild. I've never thought that those two aspects ever needed to be reconciled.
-- George Krashos |
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