| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| prototype00 |
Posted - 22 Oct 2017 : 13:06:48
Apologies for asking again for more Rashemen answers, but I just thought I'd draw upon the superior font of knowledge here, since the previous answers were so kind. Many thanks in advance.
1. Are there nobles in Rashemen? Or boyars as it were? I know the Witches basically run the place with the Iron Lord being their Berserker representaive. Are the lodges in charge of villages? (I.e. would the Head of a Berserker lodge be a village headsman?)
My understanding is the Hathrans "run" things, but aren't really into sitting at the head of a village council if you see what I mean? They basically step in and out of people's lives telling them how its going to be (Ethrans seem to be more interlinked into the common-folk experience).
2. Can Telthors form elsewhere outside of Rashemen? Or are they limited to its borders? Like if there is a significant population of expatriate Rashemi in a village outside of Rashemen which happens to be spiritually rich, can the desires of the Rashemen people/loyalty of the departed of the community/local fey influences produce something that is like a genius-loci resembling a Telthor?
Could even one Rashemi outside of Rashemen spontaneously generate one if they were steeped in the lore and found themselves in strange circumstances? (Current character was a Rashemen orphan growing up in Luskan who had become a kind of Rat-Whisperer. Could the souls of the rats that he aided form into a Rat-Telthor that watches over him?)
3. What is the connection between the Raumathari and Telthors, did the Raumathari start the process by which things can become Telthors (i.e. its something in their blood that sparks it which is why its prevalent in Rashemen)? Or were Telthors common in the land and the Raumathari Battlemages learnt the rituals to bind them to their magics of war and iron?
Thanks humbly for any knowledge shared.
prototype00 |
| 8 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 02 Mar 2020 : 00:50:18
Explorer Markustay,
I agree regarding encountering Telthors outside of Rashemen, though, I had a qualifying question about that if I may pester you about that?
Is there any lore that demonstrates that the Telthors are truly tied to a geographical location that coincides with the political/military boundaries of what is considered Rashemen in 1384DR?
Best regards,
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
First, I personally think you should be able to encounter 'Telthors' outside of Rashemen - I feel like that's a region-specific term for 'spirit animal', or 'spirit guide' (guides would probably be superior, summoned by Shaman). I might want to rename them - have different ethnicities (like the Uthgardts, or Shaarans) call them something else, but the mechanics can be the same.
Second, I agree on the Rashemi witches being 'Sorcerors'. One major thing I changed about the 3e rules (using houserules I had from 2e) was that wizards still had to memorize spells like normal, but they could cast any spell they memorized if they had the spell slot for it (thus, it would be very stupid to memorize multiple copies of the same spell). This made them much more versatile. It also means no-one bothered to play a sorcerer IMGs, since I gave their biggest perk - adaptability - to Wizards.
So I turned 'Sorcerer' into the old 'Southern magic' class, and they had access to BOTH arcane and divine spells, BUT had to use a familiar to 'fetch' the spell (very much like the Sha'irs of Zakhara). This made them very different, and kept them closer to their original (folklore) flavor.
Since the Unapproachable East was settled by folks who came out of the Taan (Imaskari) and Old Empires regions, it would make a lot of sense that their magic was closer to 'southern magic' of old, rather than the kind of magic that was used in the rest of Faerûn).
This works for the witches (witches traditionally having some healing), and also the priests of the Old empires, who did have access to both arcane and divine spells, way back when.
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| sleyvas |
Posted - 24 Oct 2017 : 14:16:19
BTW, in my Complete Red Book of Spell Strategy on DM's Guild, I have the Ethran and Vremyonni Apprentice backgrounds, the Vremyonni alternate arcane tradition, the Raumathari Battlemage, Nar Demonbinder, Hathran and Durthan Feats, the Bind Vremyonni Telthor Construct Familiar and Call Telthor rituals (each requiring special prerequisites because they aren't on any class list), Magic Item rules for Jhuild (firewine), Wands of Lesser Ley Line Power, and Witch Boats of Rashemen, and Monster entries for Bheur, Fell, and Shrieking Hags, Mur-Zhagul, and Telthors ... plus a new type of hag I call an Alu-hag (hag/succubi crossbreed). I also have a race entry for hagspawn. Finally, I have a discussion on Rashemen's Pantheon which is different than that that we've been presented elsewhere (only Faerunians believe that they are Faerunian gods).
This is all stuff directly related to Rashemen. I have a bunch of entries for Thay too, plus stuff that's more generic to the world itself or other regions (such as Theurgist Adept's and Jhaamdathi mental focus). I do need to tweak some of the wording on some of the other stuff, because I used the word "Thay" too much and not enough of "red wizard", but I was writing with a pair of 3e blinders on at the time and wasn't putting 2 and 2 together yet on where I was going with this united tharchs stuff (and still trying to get a handle on the 5e ruleset). |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 24 Oct 2017 : 13:32:33
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
First, I personally think you should be able to encounter 'Telthors' outside of Rashemen - I feel like that's a region-specific term for 'spirit animal', or 'spirit guide' (guides would probably be superior, summoned by Shaman). I might want to rename them - have different ethnicities (like the Uthgardts, or Shaarans) call them something else, but the mechanics can be the same.
Second, I agree on the Rashemi witches being 'Sorcerors'. One major thing I changed about the 3e rules (using houserules I had from 2e) was that wizards still had to memorize spells like normal, but they could cast any spell they memorized if they had the spell slot for it (thus, it would be very stupid to memorize multiple copies of the same spell). This made them much more versatile. It also means no-one bothered to play a sorcerer IMGs, since I gave their biggest perk - adaptability - to Wizards.
So I turned 'Sorcerer' into the old 'Southern magic' class, and they had access to BOTH arcane and divine spells, BUT had to use a familiar to 'fetch' the spell (very much like the Sha'irs of Zakhara). This made them very different, and kept them closer to their original (folklore) flavor.
Since the Unapproachable East was settled by folks who came out of the Taan (Imaskari) and Old Empires regions, it would make a lot of sense that their magic was closer to 'southern magic' of old, rather than the kind of magic that was used in the rest of Faerûn).
This works for the witches (witches traditionally having some healing), and also the priests of the Old empires, who did have access to both arcane and divine spells, way back when.
My rules I wrote up for the witches gives them a form of pact magic with "the land" no matter what class they are. The one thing that from 2e and 3e that I consider important is that the witches are not a specific class. Some are druids, some clerics, some sorcerers, some wizards, some warlocks (honestly, I should go back and write up to allow bards too). This pact magic spell slot is usable once between rests AND it requires them to expend hit dice to use it (as in they sacrifice of themselves to the land).
Here's specifically what I wrote up for the Hathran Feat for 5e. It requires the Ethran background which I also created in my complete book of spell strategy.
Hathran
Prerequisite – You must have background of Ethran (see new backgrounds) and must be a female from Rashemen. You must be Lawful Good, Lawful Neutral, or Neutral Good. You must worship Bhalla, Khelliara, and the Hidden One and hold one of these as your Patron deity. Must be any one of the following: a warlock with Otherworldly Patron of The Fey or Spirit Shaman; druid; cleric; Sorcerer; or a wizard. Must be at least 8th level with at least six of those levels in one of the aformentioned classes. Must have 4th level or higher spell slots.
The witches, or wychlaran (literally “wise old women”), are the true rulers of Rashemen, though they choose male lords to lead their armies and deal with questions of daily rulership. Witches are respected almost to the point of worship in Rashemen, where their word is law, and the penalty for disobedience to a witch is swift death at the hands of any Rashemaar nearby. The Hathrans do not wield this power foolishly, and are tolerant and protective of their subjects.
The Witches of Rashemen are more than just spellcasters of a particular nation; on their home soil the land itself (and the many spirits therein) grants them their powers. In return, they make pacts and sacrifices to the land to make their bonds stronger.
By tradition, Hathrans neither craft magical items nor research new spells. While they are not forbidden to do so, those tasks are the province of the vremyonni. A Hathran who devotes the time required for such work may be questioned by her superiors about her dedication to Rashemen; after all, if she is occupied in crafting a magical item or researching a new spell, she cannot be actively guarding Rashemen against the Red Wizards and other threats.
All Hathrans must go masked while traveling in Rashemen. They need not wear masks in private or when meeting with other witches in the Urlingwood or similar places forbidden to outsiders. Hathrans must also obey the orders of any higher-ranking witches (the highest ranking members of their order are known as the Othlor) and must swear never to use their powers for personal gain or for any purpose contrary to the best interests of the land of Rashemen.
Hathrans have the potent ability to start a spellmeld. A formidable counter to the Red Wizard's casting circles, a spellmeld is a ritualistic combination of two or more Wychlaran's magical abilities. In order to spellmeld, the participating witches engage in a wild, leaping dance which must center on a single object derived from one of the four elements: Earth, Air, Fire, or Water. As an Air “object” is rather hard to come by, these dances usually center on a large rock, a bonfire, or a stream or pool. Enacting a spellmeld requires the Hathran to use an action to begin building power with their elemental resource. After that, all participants (who must have a background as Ethrans, but need not be Hathrans) must use an action centered simply on joining the spellmeld (note that a spellmeld can be created by two participants and then later a third or fourth participant may join in by spending an action to dance their way into the meld). Due to the exhausting need to concentrate, cast, and dance, a spellmeld may not be maintained for more than one minute before having to perform a short or long rest.
The effects of a spellmeld depend on the number of participants. If there are two participants, any damaging spell of 1st level or above cast is treated as though having 2d4 extra dice of damage of the same type that the spell primarily issues (if the spell has two damage types and both are equal dice of damage, this 2d4 becomes 1d4 damage of each type). If there are three participants, these extra dice of damage become 3d4, and all spells cast that have a range of 5 feet or more have their range doubled. If there are four participants, the bonus damage becomes 4d4, and all Spell Save DC's of all participants gain a +1 bonus. If there are five participants, then all single target spells that do not have a range of self may be targeted on a second creature in range of the spell. If there are six participants, all participants may use a bonus action to cast a 0-level spell (i.e. a cantrip). If there are seven participants, all participants may use a bonus action to cast a 1st-level spell. If there are eight participants, all participants may use a bonus action to cast a 2nd-level spell. If there are nine participants, all participants may use a bonus action to cast a 3rd-level spell. Spellmelds may not include more than nine individuals.
In addition, the Hathran gains the use of a special form of place magic dependent on their contact with the ley lines of Rashemen, and representing the bond which they establish with the land and its spirits. This place magic does not work outside of Rashemen. The Hathran gains one bonus spell slot of their highest castable spell level. This bonus spell slot can be used to cast ANY spell on the Hathran's Class Spell List of the appropriate level that they are aware of, even if its not one that they know or have prepared. However, when this spell slot is used, it requires that the Hathran give of themselves as part of their pact with the land. This is done by expending hit dice appropriate to the level of the spell slot actually used (1st - 2nd level requires 1 hit dice, 3rd - 5th level requires 2 hit dice, 6th - 8th level requires 3 hit dice, and 9th level requires 4 hit dice). This spell slot may not be used again until the Hathran completes a short or long rest. All expended hit dice are renewed after completing a long rest.
Hathrans receive advantage when performing any Charisma Skill Check involving a resident of Rashemen. They may also request and expect to receive food and lodging from any resident asked. They also receive a +2 bonus on Charisma Skill Checks involving fey and/or spirits found within Rashemen. All Hathrans also learn the recipe for brewing Jhuild (Firewine) and are expected to periodically brew batches for the berserkers of Rashemen.
Finally, all Hathrans are assigned a group of NPC Berserker Bodyguards (see the NPC entry for a Berserker on page 344 of the Monster Manual) which are led by a human barbarian NPC of Rashemi ethnicity (and usually a male). It is expected that the Hathran will not needlessly waste the life of their bodyguards, and that they will outfit them in order to better their survivability (often times, the Berserkers may be left behind to watch the Hathran's camp while the barbarian bodyguard travels with her). The human barbarian NPC will always be of three levels less than the Hathran, and he should be designed using the Variant: Customizing Ability Scores Method found on page 13 of the Player's Handbook. The human barbarian NPC should have no money or magic items, beyond a flask of Jhuild, but he should possess basic weapons, armor, and equipment as designated by the DM. The Hathran is granted two NPC Berserker Bodyguards at 8th level and is granted another every two levels after that, and should they die needlessly, the Wychlaran will expect the Hathran to make recompense to the families of the fallen. The DM may decide that the Hathran is not allowed replacement personnel if he feels that they have been abused, until the Hathran can show proper reconciliation for their actions.
In addition, the following spells are automatically bonus spells prepared or known for the Hathran whenever they gain the ability to cast spells of the appropriate level.
1st level Speak with Animals
2nd level Dust Devil *
3rd level Speak with Plants
4th level Elemental Bane *
5th level Planar Binding
6th level Conjure Fey
7th level Regenerate
8th level Animal shapes
9th level Shapechange
In the above list * indicates that the spell can be found at this PDF resource from WotC
http://media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/EE_PlayersCompanion.pdf
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| Markustay |
Posted - 24 Oct 2017 : 02:35:01
First, I personally think you should be able to encounter 'Telthors' outside of Rashemen - I feel like that's a region-specific term for 'spirit animal', or 'spirit guide' (guides would probably be superior, summoned by Shaman). I might want to rename them - have different ethnicities (like the Uthgardts, or Shaarans) call them something else, but the mechanics can be the same.
Second, I agree on the Rashemi witches being 'Sorcerors'. One major thing I changed about the 3e rules (using houserules I had from 2e) was that wizards still had to memorize spells like normal, but they could cast any spell they memorized if they had the spell slot for it (thus, it would be very stupid to memorize multiple copies of the same spell). This made them much more versatile. It also means no-one bothered to play a sorcerer IMGs, since I gave their biggest perk - adaptability - to Wizards.
So I turned 'Sorcerer' into the old 'Southern magic' class, and they had access to BOTH arcane and divine spells, BUT had to use a familiar to 'fetch' the spell (very much like the Sha'irs of Zakhara). This made them very different, and kept them closer to their original (folklore) flavor.
Since the Unapproachable East was settled by folks who came out of the Taan (Imaskari) and Old Empires regions, it would make a lot of sense that their magic was closer to 'southern magic' of old, rather than the kind of magic that was used in the rest of Faerûn).
This works for the witches (witches traditionally having some healing), and also the priests of the Old empires, who did have access to both arcane and divine spells, way back when. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 22 Oct 2017 : 22:04:35
quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta
The Raumvirans are said to focus their worship on the 4 elemental gods/primordials, so that could all work.
As for the witches having a dark side, oh, I totally agree. I see them being sorcerers in 5E, but only for the full spellcasting, because otherwise I see them with a strong 5E vibe.
Yeah, I picture that they also probably used to worship some of the beings that we picture as tied to the Yuir elves. For instance, I very much picture Magnar the Bear being one of their deities. Also, I can see them favoring Relkath of the Many Branches.
I also picture the Raumathari also having a deity representative of wolves and another of Stags. They may have also have worshipped a primal spirit of some sort with ties to Griffins (possibly the cat goddess Felidae that Sharess subsumed). |
| TomCosta |
Posted - 22 Oct 2017 : 16:38:45
The Raumvirans are said to focus their worship on the 4 elemental gods/primordials, so that could all work.
As for the witches having a dark side, oh, I totally agree. I see them being sorcerers in 5E, but only for the full spellcasting, because otherwise I see them with a strong 5E warlock vibe. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 22 Oct 2017 : 16:11:34
What I'm about to say is NOT canon. However, its how I've come to picture the area
The people of Rashemen literally revere "the land" in a way that's ancient and similar in some respects to the people of Maztica and Anchorome and Kara-Tur. In fact, at one time, Dazzlerdal and I were discussing that the unapproachable east and bloodstone lands were areas in which people's souls didn't travel to the outer planes, but rather merged with Toril (wow, was that 2013.... damn time flies). Its worth reading this thread possibly
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=18675&whichpage=1
Anyway, I believe that in Rashemen that the witches actually sacrifice to the land, and thus the land forms "spirits". This may come in the form of "heroic" animals who are sacrificed rather than be allowed to die naturally, and some animals may sacrifice themselves to protect the land (perhaps the witches awaken animals for this purpose). These animals become "immortal" protectors of the land in the form of ghostly beings. The witches probably do things to strengthen the ley lines of Rashemen, some such as Durthans may even sacrifice male children who possess magical talent but appear to be a "threat" to Rashemi society. Some durthans may even get larvae from night hags that they somehow "purify" and use to sanctify the land, and in so doing maybe they take the "evil" of said larvae and convert it to some fell purpose such as casting an evil spell on red wizards to protect the homeland.
Anyway, people also become telthors, as they have become so in tune with the concept of being willing to sacrifice themselves to "protect the homeland". In fact, Jhuild the Firewine may create a "disconnect" in the consciousness which makes people more likely to martyr themselves for the cause.
By the way, while I picture the witches using whips to punish those who don't accept their orders, I also picture witches whipping each other (literally, not kinky spanking) and thus offering up the blood of their own to the earth (again possibly to strengthen ley lines). Maybe this is why periodically the witches go to the Urlingwood, and maybe they don't use magic to heal themselves, but rather heal themselves using "earthly" remedies.
I very much picture the Raumathari/Raumvirans as being in tune with the spirits of nature, and many of their spellcasters may have actually have been druids and not wizards or sorcerers. Many of them may have also been warlocks as well. Over time, this probably changed to include more wizards and less priests amongst the male population. I see their males focusing on spirits of fire, ice, earth, metal, thunder, and lightning, while the females generally focused more on spirits of water, plants, healing, animal spirits, wind, protection, etc...
As to making telthors outside of Rashemen, I wouldn't do that. HOWEVER, it might be possible to use some kind of minor artifact made from the "soil of the homeland" that you can bring with you that you can bind a telthor to. If you did that however, I'd personally recommend something where the person has to sacrifice to this artifact periodically similar to how the homeland is kept viable.
This picture of the Rashemi witches is a lot darker than that portrayed in more modern realmslore, but I think it very much fits the old grey box lore.
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| TomCosta |
Posted - 22 Oct 2017 : 15:13:04
To the extent that are answers for your questions, they are in 3E's Unapproachable East and/or 2E's Spellbound.
1. From the former source," At it's simplest, each community is led by a fyrra ("lord" or "war leader"), usually a warrior of renown from a clan of good standing. Technically, a fyrra wields power only over the soldiers he trains and commands, but he often keeps the peace and settles matters of traditional law and judgment. A fyrra is advised by the Witches and normally defers to their judgment. The fyrras of each settlement report to the Huhrong, or Iron Lord, the highest-ranking leader in Rashemen. The Iron Lord is always a man, chosen by the Withces, and rules at their whim; they may replace him at any time. The Iron Lord is expected to rule wisely and in the best interests of the people of Rashemen. It is his duty to keep travel between settlements reasonably safe, secure the frontiers, and control raiding monsters from the wilder parts of the country....
You are otherwise correct about the Witches being the absolute rulers, but preferring to remain behind the scenes. Their word is law and life and death.
2. I believe they were only introduced and ever talked about in 3E's unapproachable east. We don't know much more than this: http://www.realmshelps.net/monsters/templates/telthor.shtml. We also know that they were responsive to the Witches, good hathran or evil durthan's alike. In fact, the durthan PrC of 3E could get a Tetlthor companion that works very much like a 5E familiar, but can be of a larger animal type. In 4E, they probably would have been primal spirits (in 3E spirits included fey, elementals, and incorporeal undead, there was no such thing, per se, as the primal spirits that came about in 4E), but could also remain fey with links to the Feywild. My preference is some muddy middle that is unclear to all involved. All of which is to say, you could easily come up with a good reason to do almost anything you want with telthor. It's possible they exist elsewhere, but the Rashemi are just more attuned and welcoming to them.
3. As indicated above, you have now tapped the known lore, as far as I know it, on telthors. The rest is up to you. That said the Raumathari are actually called Raumvirans. You can find more about them in the Hordelands supplement from Dragon 349. See https://paizo.com/dragonissues/349/DR349_Supplement.pdf. No mention of telthor is made. |
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