| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Jakuta Khan |
Posted - 23 Sep 2013 : 10:32:53
Hi all.
I just red the thar entry in the wiki and stumbled about a mention about the above named red claws horde of goblinoids.
Is there any chance someone has some canon information on them?
In the wiki they are listed as organizations but i cannot find anything about them.
Thx in advance
Jakuta Khan |
| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 06 Oct 2013 : 20:34:56
quote:
Originally posted by Neil Bishop
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Or Rich baker simply did not read through the earlier product and the lore got changed because of it. Its not like he's ever done that before. 
That's a cheap shot.
I suspect it was a deliberate change to 1. add some variety and 2. link it to the Red Hand of Doom even if only superficially but just in case a DM wants to run it in another location.
Anyway, Elminster's Ecologies wasn't written by the Realms "A" team so it's really just semi-canon.
Elminster's Ecologies is canon. I don't know about a list of "semi-canon" at all. It was a good work as far as I can tell.
I don't think it would be out of the realm of possible things for a goblinoid group to insert itself into Thar mind you...but I find it highly unlikely considering the vast number of orcs there and their avowed dislike for goblins as anything other than slaves or food. |
| Neil Bishop |
Posted - 06 Oct 2013 : 14:18:03
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Or Rich baker simply did not read through the earlier product and the lore got changed because of it. Its not like he's ever done that before.
That's a cheap shot.
I suspect it was a deliberate change to 1. add some variety and 2. link it to the Red Hand of Doom even if only superficially but just in case a DM wants to run it in another location.
Anyway, Elminster's Ecologies wasn't written by the Realms "A" team so it's really just semi-canon. |
| Jakuta Khan |
Posted - 24 Sep 2013 : 07:38:28
Yeah Dalor, that is what surprised me in Bakers Realmslore Article. In there he writes that they are Goblin and Hobgoblin, but Elminsters ecologies state they are orcs - and As I wrote before, I had Thar always remembered as Ogre / Orc Territory, with occasional goblin slaves.
The Galenas are a different issue, though. Muster only half the tribes there, and you overrun Thar and all coastal settlements. But then, this also counts for many other mountain ranges through the realms. |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 24 Sep 2013 : 02:38:37
Unfortunately for Tithulka, Red Claws are Orcs...sorry mate. ;) |
| Jakuta Khan |
Posted - 23 Sep 2013 : 20:20:05
@markustay: can't comment that really ;)
In general I will generously oversee orcs being transformed into hobgoblins hehe, vice versa is a different matter altogether. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 23 Sep 2013 : 14:08:41
Or Rich baker simply did not read through the earlier product and the lore got changed because of it. Its not like he's ever done that before. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 23 Sep 2013 : 13:31:07
Maybe they were an orc tribe that kept goblinoids as slaves, too many goblinoids. The hobgoblins could have organised a rebellion and slaughtered the orcs, claiming red castle for themselves and keeping the red claw name. |
| Jakuta Khan |
Posted - 23 Sep 2013 : 13:05:43
Yeah this is what i red as well.
Maybe it is worthwhile to ask ed. |
| Jakuta Khan |
Posted - 23 Sep 2013 : 13:04:23
Rewards come to the patient!
Just checked deeply and found a dragon article ( dragon 361, richard baker )
Also posted on realmslore archive on the wizards page.
Red claws is a tribe of hobgoblins and goblins in Thar, and a quite big and successful one.
Is it printed in ecologies as orc tribe? That wouldbe interesting now. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 23 Sep 2013 : 12:58:27
It does seem that way but orcs take plenty of slaves and goblins seem to make okay enough slaves in that they replace themselves incredibly quickly and are cowardly.
Rather stupidly i only checked elminsters ecologies and not my own collated notes on Thar, i just found this in Thar
The Red Castle: A large tribe of goblins and hobgoblins, the Red Claws lair in the cyclopean ruins of an old ogre hold from the days when Thar was a kingdom. Cunning half-floors and quarter-steps of fieldstone and timber divide the huge ogre doorways and towering ogre vaults into spaces more suitable for goblins. The Red Claws are allied with a powerful pack of worgs, and Red Claw worg-riders range all over Thar (and the lands about) in search of easy plunder.
The Red Claws are currently the tribe of Thar causing the most trouble to the most people. The Red Castle stands about twenty miles north of the coastal track between Phlan and Melvaunt, and marauding worg-riders have made travel along this path dangerous even for large and well-armed groups. The hobgoblin marshal Hashrad is warlord of the tribe, and he has been gleefully extorting tolls, bribes, and tribute from anyone within reach. As you might expect, Hashrad is not particularly scrupulous about staying bribed, and so he frequently "loses control" over raiding parties or "doesn't receive" tribute offerings -- both timeworn excuses to take a bribe, and then plunder passers-by anyway.
Dunno where its from though |
| Jakuta Khan |
Posted - 23 Sep 2013 : 12:58:11
Rewards come to the patient!
Just checked deeply and found a dragon article ( dragon 361, richard baker )
Also posted on realmslore archive on the wizards page.
Red claws is a tribe of hobgoblins and goblins in Thar, and a quite big and successful one.
Is it printed in ecologies as orc tribe? That wouldbe interesting now. |
| Jakuta Khan |
Posted - 23 Sep 2013 : 12:00:27
No not exactly. I was just wondering about the mentioning as goblnoid horde.
I was pretty damn sure that i studied all entries about hobgoblins in elminsters ecologies. And thar was as far as i knew always either orc or ogre territory.
|
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 23 Sep 2013 : 11:36:43
It didnt specifically say there werent any goblinoids, it was just that the tribe was listed in the orc tribes section and was described as a prominent orc tribe.
Could have goblinoids i suppose. And i'm betting you would want some hobgoblins in there somewhere |
| Jakuta Khan |
Posted - 23 Sep 2013 : 11:31:19
Aahh ok thx a lot.
So it is orcs not goblnoids mixed
Makes sense. Thank you. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 23 Sep 2013 : 10:48:17
On page 3 of the land of thar booklet in elminsters ecologies it shows the area controlled by the red claws (its a little circle in the south west of thar.
The booklet details the red claws as prominent orc tribe with many hundreds of members and slaves, and hold to legends about a great orc nation.
And thats it in elminsters ecologies. |
