| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 29 Nov 2012 : 09:40:06
I dont know if anyone has ever brought this up but i was just reading about the Fortress of the Wailing Dwarf in Amn (Fortress Kuldevon), and found something in one of the last printed dragon magazines when it described the reason for the near constant rushing in and out of air from the fortress as being located deep within a secret location behind in the dwarven city behind the wailing dwarf facade.
Then suddenly it hit me. The reason for the inhale/exhale is the breathing of a colossal creature trapped underground.
I figure for the inhalation and exhalation of air to reach the entrance of the wailing dwarf carving this creature must be absolutely massive. The creature's presence also explains the guardian naga being in the city. The creature is obviously asleep and has been for many centuries (maybe even millenia) and was either put into that slumber forcefully with the guardian naga as its jailors, or it employs the guardian naga as its protectors while it sleeps.
The question is what creature is down there and who put it there.
Firstly because of its massive size, and then the fact that it has been sleeping for centuries makes a colossal++++ dragon the likely candidate.
Did the dwarves know about this creature or did it come to reside in the city after the dwarves left (maybe it ate them), or maybe the dwarves uncovered it by accident.
Generally whenever i read Naga now i think Sarrukh thanks to Serpent Kingdoms. Could it be that the Sarrukh were experimenting on dragons and this is their result (im not sure about the feasibility of this as i cant remember if Sarrukh disappeared before dragons arrived).
Maybe the creature was imprisoned way back in the days of thunder, the dwarves built their city atop it without knowing then accidentally uncovered it and its guardians, and were driven from their home/eaten.
Anyway thats my thought for the day. Anyone have any other ideas. |
| 21 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Markustay |
Posted - 02 Dec 2012 : 21:49:41
Interesting, BEAST. Had I been part of that conversation, I would have said it equates to "goes to town on...", which could also be translated several different ways, depending on the context. A boxer can wail-away on his opponent, and it would mean quite a different thing then that joke implied (unless there is more to professional boxing then I know about).
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
I wondered how long the CK collective could resist making that pun.
I've been biting my tongue for about a week now... just couldn't help it.  |
| BEAST |
Posted - 02 Dec 2012 : 17:25:49
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
And here I though 'Whaling Dwarves' were from Haunghdannar. 
Aren't pretty much all dwarves "whaling dwarves", though, in so much as they "whale away" on their enemies with hammers, axes, swords, clubs, etc.?
This confusion over "wail" vs. "whale" brought me to <an interesting place via google>. |
| Hoondatha |
Posted - 02 Dec 2012 : 17:15:01
I wondered how long the CK collective could resist making that pun. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 02 Dec 2012 : 16:47:51
And here I thought 'Whaling Dwarves' were from Haunghdannar. |
| Jakuta Khan |
Posted - 02 Dec 2012 : 09:48:28
Nevrtheless what it once might have been, I think by now we know why it was built and for whom.
I would love to know if it is still inhabited by some humanoids, eventuallysimilar to Mithril Hall, duergar, derro or the likes, which simply leave the guardian nagas in place or if it is vastly empty and some undead,or eventually a group of very powerful monsters are the sole inhabitants.
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| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 30 Nov 2012 : 16:52:32
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
While this thread resolved a problem for me as well, on my 'Misbegotten Realms' map. Its all good - we feed ff each other (like orcs... or dwarves...)
I have a mini-continent (mega-Island) just below the main campaign area and I couldn't figure out what to place there. I had given some thought to some Eberron, Greyhawk, and Golarion locales (amongst many others), but I was just reminded of Returned Abeir! Now I can 'fill in the blanks' with actual Realmslore. 
I know what the island is (an Empire), but I needed locales, and now I can pilfer my Laerakond map for those. I'm hoping to have something to show folks with that soon - I'm really loving how its all coming out. I think you are going to freak when you see my second Five Shires conversion (this time I didn't have to flip it upside down!)
Five Shires eh? Well, lets see then!
More on topic for this thread, I always thought it would be cool if in truth the great Wailing Dwarf had once been an avatar of a dwarf god... |
| Markustay |
Posted - 30 Nov 2012 : 05:28:28
While this thread resolved a problem for me as well, on my 'Misbegotten Realms' map. Its all good - we feed ff each other (like orcs... or dwarves...)
I have a mini-continent (mega-Island) just below the main campaign area and I couldn't figure out what to place there. I had given some thought to some Eberron, Greyhawk, and Golarion locales (amongst many others), but I was just reminded of Returned Abeir! Now I can 'fill in the blanks' with actual Realmslore.
I know what the island is (an Empire), but I needed locales, and now I can pilfer my Laerakond map for those. I'm hoping to have something to show folks with that soon - I'm really loving how its all coming out. I think you are going to freak when you see my second Five Shires conversion (this time I didn't have to flip it upside down!) |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 29 Nov 2012 : 22:06:39
Dude, you just helped to place a lot of Mystara in the Realms for me.
Now I have Greyhawk, Faerun the "Known World" of Mystara and the Hollow World all solved! |
| Markustay |
Posted - 29 Nov 2012 : 21:00:45
You can see the layers of a planet in this illustration. The deepest the Underdark would project is the Upper mantle, which is a very thin layer at the top of the mantle, and that would be where the 'deep dark' portion of the Underdark would lie.
There is PLENTY of room below that for a 'Hollow Earth' scenario. Non-portal connections could not exist (between the Night Below and the Hollow World) because you would have to pass through a layer of magma. It might be possible for elemental creatures to do so... which could explain why the Elemental Primordials (Akadi, Grumbar, Kossuth, & Istishia) remained active on Toril when the rest were banished.
@Hoondatha - AGREED. I was just figuring ways around the piles of crap.  |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 29 Nov 2012 : 20:29:43
Hollow World! 
THAT could explain a LOT of things! I mean, you can still have your Underdark...but it instead becomes a means to prevent contact between Aebir and Toril!!!!
That lovely Friznatsniz (however it is spelled) then becomes a teleportation blocker (as well as divinations and such!)...and it all becomes much like Mystara...but without the annoying as hell holes! |
| Hoondatha |
Posted - 29 Nov 2012 : 20:25:39
Except it's not constant. If the 4e designers had bothered to read Dwarves Deep, which introduced the Wailing Dwarf, they would have read clearly that it's only caused by an easterly wind, and it's only because the head is hollow, so the wind comes in the ears and eyes and exits the mouth in a howl. But they didn't, which was typical of the entire project.
Personally, if I was going to change it around I would make it a combination of beacon/early warning system/symbol of defiance/air raid siren. Sort of like the Horn of Helm Hammerhand from Lord of the Rings. The ancient dwarves would have kept the eyes and ears blocked most of the time and only unblocked them when foes approached. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 29 Nov 2012 : 19:41:48
Maybe its like the remake of War of the Worlds - lots of 'uber things' were buried in the distant past, all over the place (and it makes just as much sense here as it did in that movie).
Unfortunately, the idea that plenty of primordials were 'buried in the earth' goes against the main concept of 4e that the primordials were "all banished to Abeir". Maybe Abeir is really a 'Hollow World' local (which would make the two different ideas about primordilas work).
You know... thats not half-bad... placing Abeir inside of Toril could solve quite a few snafus...
Anyhow, you could easily say that that particular primordial - the one theoretically under the Wailing Dwarf - is the embodiment of the concept of 'good' (or whatever), and its very nature is anathema to fiends... which is precisely why refugees from Hellgate Keep would want to build there. Trolls may have liked the place because those 'life energies' augmented their own regeneration capabilities. Nagas could be there just experimenting with the power source (hoping to create some new form of super-Yuan ti, perhaps?)
As I've said repeatedly about 4e fluff, the lore itself isn't bad, its the complete lack of explanations for everything that blows chunks. Everything can be 'made better' with just a little thought behind it. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 29 Nov 2012 : 18:47:37
They really did just throw anything anywhere for 4ed didnt they. Why would a primordial be under a city built for refugees from Hellgate Keep. Surely the dwarves would have noticed while they were building the city and decided against placing it there
I was just drawing my conclusions from the piece of realmslore i read in dragon 362
Thousands of empty chambers lie within the abandoned city, whose name is one more secret hoarded by the guardian nagas who patrol the city's upper edges. Mournful dwarven ghosts, lurking trolls, patrolling guardian nagas, the powerful items once wielded by Lancameth and his fallen band, and other secrets are here kept, not
least of which is the reason for the near constant inhalation and outrush of air from somewhere deeper. . . .
The fact that its near constant gave me the idea of breathing which is after all nearly constant (except for the odd choke, snore, etc). And since it says it was held deeper than the abandoned city gave me the idea of something being imprisoned or hiding beneath it.
If it was a dwarven device, why place it in deep hidden places of the city when it would make much more sense to draw the air from somewhere near the surface and channel it out through the wailing dwarf and it would be easier to fix and defend if it was within the city itself.
Maybe it is an alternating gate to the elemental plane of air but that is a lot less interesting than some massive creature. I particularly like the idea of the wailing dwarf being the creature itself, maybe the secret deep beneath the city is its heart.
Maybe i am over thinking it. Maybe in 4th edition they meant to put the primordial beneath the wailing dwarf but got confused and placed it in the wrong place, i think they got things confused many times in 4th ed.
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| BEAST |
Posted - 29 Nov 2012 : 17:28:33
Per the FRCS (3E), the sculpture already had the breathing phenomenon back in 3E, when trolls inhabited the joint. They were the primary residents, as the entire mountain range that the sculpture belonged to was called the Troll Mountains.
In the FRCG (4E), the trolls have secretly been supplanted by nagas, but the mountain range still hasn't had its name changed, yet.
Personally, I imagine some sort of underground aqueduct conduits from the Sword Coast that might pull in both water and air. As the tide rises and falls, perhaps it pulls some air with it, and the sculpture's nostrils are the bypass valve for the residual blow-off.
If this is the case, then maybe sometimes a little sea water remains in the mix with the air, and it looks like the sculpture is blowing snot! What if some seaweed somehow got that far back from the coast?!
"Hey, look; that thar stoot feller's got a bit of a runny nose! Anybody got a hankie?" |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 29 Nov 2012 : 16:59:25
What if the contained entity was the giant sculpted dwarf, instead of something inside it? What if it was an evil dwarven deity, imprisoned by such mighty magic that its use slew large numbers of dwarven spellcasters? The breathing could be the one sign of life remaining to the imprisoned deity -- or it could be a sign that the deity is struggling to awaken, or just struggling against its bonds... |
| Markustay |
Posted - 29 Nov 2012 : 15:46:11
First, I think the actual case is as Hoondatha states - its just a quirk of the design. Second, I would also agree with his last statement about Gauntlgrym.
As for your premise: It could be a Krakentua, or a a Gargantua, or even one of those island-sized sea turtles (Zaratan), although how any of those got inside there is anyone's guess.
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
The question is what creature is down there and who put it there.
Firstly because of its massive size, and then the fact that it has been sleeping for centuries makes a colossal++++ dragon the likely candidate.
Did the dwarves know about this creature or did it come to reside in the city after the dwarves left (maybe it ate them), or maybe the dwarves uncovered it by accident.
Have you read the story of Fafnir? It could be a dwarven king who turned into a dragon.  |
| Hoondatha |
Posted - 29 Nov 2012 : 14:44:27
Is that what they did with 4e Gauntlgrym? Sigh. How idiotic. |
| _Jarlaxle_ |
Posted - 29 Nov 2012 : 13:01:01
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
I dont subscribe to 4e in anyway but it wouldnt surprise me if a primordial was planned to be detailed there at some point.
Maybe but that would be the same as in Gauntlgrym and I doubt that every dwarf city was build on top of a primordial |
| Hoondatha |
Posted - 29 Nov 2012 : 12:46:33
I don't think there's any sort of creature down there. I think you're over-thinking the situation. It's an underground city. It needs fresh air to keep its inhabitants alive. The dwarves of old solved that problem using huge engineering works. Look at the Pumps of Pyraddin, which drain and filter massive quantities of water from the Lake of Salt, create an entire underground river, and simultaneously provide clean air for much of the Deep Lands around the Shaar.
Also, we know that the wailing only happens when the wind is from a particular direction. If it was a monster, it would be constant. It isn't. I really don't think there's anything suspicious about the Wailing Dwarf. It is the way it is because the dwarves thought big in those days, because they could, and because if you're going to carve a city in the shape of a dwarf, you might as well make him speak, too. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 29 Nov 2012 : 12:21:48
Or a tarrasque, although im sure i read somewhere that the tarrasque attacked Herald's Holdfast recently which means the wailing from the wailing dwarf would had to have stopped for a while when it was absent.
I dont subscribe to 4e in anyway but it wouldnt surprise me if a primordial was planned to be detailed there at some point. |
| Barastir |
Posted - 29 Nov 2012 : 09:44:08
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
(...)
Firstly because of its massive size, and then the fact that it has been sleeping for centuries makes a colossal++++ dragon the likely candidate.
(...)
Or maybe the Tarrasque? |
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