| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Markustay |
Posted - 18 Sep 2012 : 20:01:03
On the old 1e map (Dreams of the Red Wizards) there are a number of 'x' on the map. I had thought these were keeps, but when I compare them to the 2e map (Spellbound) they don't coincide with the keeps there (which have different symbol). the only thing I can think of is that they are tax stations/check-points (which IIRC was a conclusion I drew once before), but looking more closely at the map, there are a great many of them outside of Thay, which makes little sense (especially in Altumbel).
Unfortunately I do not have a physical copy of this supplement any longer, and the pdf I have does not show the inside cover - is the map key on that?
Thanks for any insight/help anyone can give. |
| 11 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Markustay |
Posted - 25 Oct 2012 : 06:02:57
Its interesting you bring that up - there a lot of Inns in FR that aren't in town per se, and yet are almost settlements unto themselves. Basically stockade-enclosed travel stations with all the amenities you've described.
And I was thinking of calling that map icon 'waystop' rather then 'Inn', because its a bit different then an ordinary Inn. Its weird because I was just thinking about that last night (when discovering yet-another of these Inn-that-became-a-settlements.)
They are great places for the local authorities and clandestine groups to place agents to watch over the roads (and in Thay, tax them). Some (inside of nations-proper) could even have a troop barracks. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 25 Oct 2012 : 00:07:27
These are traveller's waystations, typically spaced about one day's travel apart from each other. Travel for slow-moving caravans, pack mules, wagons and such ... fast riders might be able to reach two in one day, perhaps even three if they push hard and switch to fresh mounts. Distance varies because sometimes the terrain makes easier or harder travel, and because sometimes these places are chosen a few miles closer/farther to take advantage of a defensible feature, fresh water, or a "scenic" feature of interest. Expect to find the usual amenities: ye olde tavern, an inn or two, stables, perhaps a blacksmith. Also expect to find other travellers and impromptu markets (since most travellers are merchants, always savvy to do a little trade on the side). And perhaps a little garrison (permanently stationed, or "rotating" as patrols move along the route). And some informants aligned with the local government. Those along rivers tend to offer transfer points, bridges, fords, moorage, etc. Those along shorelines probably indicate ports.
Page 7 briefly describes travel points along the Golden Road, in general terms. Page 14 notes that those along rivers tend to serve as tax stations for the local red wizards, and it's probably reasonable to expect every such waypoint (whether on a river or not) also serves as a little military tax station. Cross-country or "off the main road" sorts of travel are discouraged in Thay, and the monsters (mostly gnolls) are probably not as easily appeased as the local greedy tyrants.
Besides, if all else fails then "X marks the spot". If players want to know why there's a mark on the map then just invite them to go take a look. |
| xaeyruudh |
Posted - 28 Sep 2012 : 21:34:41
I don't claim to be an expert on Thay, but for my own development purposes I'm going to say that the X marks a smaller settlement, which may or may not be fortified. As already noted, several of them are spaced pretty evenly along the roads in Thay; likely they started as messenger/caravan rest stops and a population grew there for the practical purpose of stabling horses and supporting and profiting from trade. Nethjet is marked by an X, and it's definitely a place where people live --albeit a small place-- and not just a tax station. This can also explain the presence of Xs outside Thay and even on the islands of Altumbel where there are no significant roads. The ones on the frontiers/islands are probably somewhat fortified, but not all of them need to be. I think the most intriguing Xs on the map, based on this interpretation, are the 2-3 on the Thaymount, where no "civilians" are allowed. I can't read the labels on my copy, but they appear to be named.
tl;dr: hamlets.
quote:
Unfortunately I do not have a physical copy of this supplement any longer, and the pdf I have does not show the inside cover - is the map key on that?
Unfortunately no, there is no key (or scale, or north arrow, all of which is required on any map that wants to get a passing grade in Cartography 101) on the map. And there's nothing at all on the inside front/back covers, so you're not missing anything there.
(edited for clarity) |
| Dennis |
Posted - 25 Sep 2012 : 09:05:46
Heh. The cartographer must have been sleepy and unwittingly put the X's outside Thay.
Or, they're the villages that the Red Wizards planned/dreamed of acquiring and turning to tax stations. Besides, isn't the title Dreams of the Red Wizards? |
| Markustay |
Posted - 20 Sep 2012 : 18:55:37
One might assume those are similar, but without the Thayan tax-collectors (and may have been surreptitiously setup by Red Wizards, and were a precursor to the enclaves). In other words, a 'way point' (Inn and Hostelry, etc) for folks running campaigns in the region, as Sleyvas suggested.
Zhents are known for setting up business all throughout western Faerun - why couldn't the Red Wizards being doing something similar in the east? Its a great way to 'keep tabs' on all your competition. (in other words, places where Thayan spies can meet and send missives back home, etc).
The more I think on it, the more I am liking a Lich-ruled Altumbel. I think I may go that route, regardless of what WotC does (and my Warmachine army was Cryx, so you know I love that vibe - pirates and necromancy). |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 20 Sep 2012 : 16:08:56
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Which is what I thought, but why are there so many outside of Thay? I can understand the ones on the Wizard's Coast, but whats with all of those in Altumbel? Does Thay control those islands?
If so, Altumbel might make an interesting alternate for a 'New thay' in 5e (for the Red Wizard ex-patriates). It could also make a decent base of operations for Szass Tam, if he decides to allow the red Wizards to take back their own land (but that would be a situation a little too similar to the Cryx in Iron Kingdoms... or Eberron's Lhazaar Pricipalities, which copied Iron Kingdoms).
yeah, Markustay is right. There's some of those X's in Thesk, Rashemen, and Altumbel... all of which aren't Thayan controlled spaces. If it weren't for that, yeah, I'd agree that they were the Thayan tax stations. That being said, they could be meant to be larger than average waypoints for "later development" that just weren't pointed out. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 20 Sep 2012 : 04:46:19
Which is what I thought, but why are there so many outside of Thay? I can understand the ones on the Wizard's Coast, but whats with all of those in Altumbel? Does Thay control those islands?
If so, Altumbel might make an interesting alternate for a 'New thay' in 5e (for the Red Wizard ex-patriates). It could also make a decent base of operations for Szass Tam, if he decides to allow the red Wizards to take back their own land (but that would be a situation a little too similar to the Cryx in Iron Kingdoms... or Eberron's Lhazaar Pricipalities, which copied Iron Kingdoms). |
| Dennis |
Posted - 19 Sep 2012 : 01:57:20
They are tax stations. What else would have so many of them along roads and rivers? As indicated on p. 19 of Dreams of the Red Wizards:
"All along the rivers and roads of Thay are a series of villages about one day's travel apart. These are built around military posts and generally feature a defensible tower and a garrison of about 30 men at arms. These stations tend to accumulate hangers-on, so that thriving villages now surround them, usually featuring at least one inn or tavern and several people providing other services for travelers such as a smithy, a wheelwright, a livery stable, and so forth. This is one of the few openings for private enterprise in Thay, and craftsmen make full use of this opportunity.
Tax stations were built by the Zulkirs but each is maintained by the Red Wizard or Tharchion most concerned with the area. Each tax station takes its toll of travelers for upkeep of the roads and the garrison also arranges for road repairs or, on the rivers, upkeep of docks and other facilities." |
| Artemas Entreri |
Posted - 19 Sep 2012 : 00:50:57
Where is Dennis?  |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 18 Sep 2012 : 22:31:56
Its not the X for travel distances... what they were talking about were the plastic overlays you were supposed to use from the old grey box. Hmmm, good question. I always thought they were tax stations, but yeah, you're right they have some outside of Thay. Maybe sites of famous battles? If they aren't tax stations, to tell the truth, my first instinct is to say they're sites of some sort of fortification to tell the truth, but then you're telling me they don't match up to later lore (which could be because the people who came along later never could figure out what they were for either, if they even noticed them). |
| Lord Bane |
Posted - 18 Sep 2012 : 20:29:03
Since itīs dominantly on routes and waterways aswell as on islands maybe it is inns for travelers? There is no explanation given on the Dreams of the Red Wizards maps regarding these markers.
Edit: Checking the 1e Campaing Set, they talk about X on maps as indicator for traveldistances, maybe that is the case on that map aswell?
Or it could be Mines with the pick and shovel symbol being badly done. |
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