| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Jakuta Khan |
Posted - 21 Jul 2012 : 18:27:39
Hi everybody,
was stumbling across an entry of Kind Kurot and his Goblins in the marching mountains on the calishite border recently, in a 2e sourcebook.
anybody have more canon info on these specific goblins?
The later entry of the mountains themselves does not contain anything.
thx in Advance |
| 14 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Jakuta Khan |
Posted - 29 Aug 2012 : 07:50:48
thx for sharing thoughts!
At some point the greenskins will dominate!!
Har Har |
| Markustay |
Posted - 28 Aug 2012 : 22:45:39
Hmph.
Then I would go with the Twisted Rune using them as a 'cover'. In other words, they allow them to exist, because they keep weaker threats out of the mountains, and help to discern the threat level of anything that gets past them.
People will ignore 'goblins in the mountains' - thats a very common theme in FR. They might be tempted to do something about an evil (undead) organization building a stronghold in those same mountains. An 'unclaimed' mountain range would seem queer to most folk in Faerūn, hence the goblins being the perfect cover. I would say the king must answer to the Twisted Rune, but unbeknownst to the rest of the Goblins. |
| Jakuta Khan |
Posted - 27 Aug 2012 : 06:42:55
@Markustay:
Empires of the shining Sea, Page 50, under the goblin entry.
They have a stronghold located in the western and central Marching Mountains. |
| Jakuta Khan |
Posted - 27 Aug 2012 : 06:36:30
thanks brimstone, I am getting old.
Happens sometimes, that you know exactly how it looks, but forget the name....
( many YOUNG men have this issue with women I have heard ;) ;) ) |
| Brimstone |
Posted - 27 Aug 2012 : 06:28:47
Empires of the Shining Sea. |
| Jakuta Khan |
Posted - 26 Aug 2012 : 21:03:29
I am travelling, but the entry was in the book of 2nd edition, where it has a genie grabbing the throat of a blue dragon on the cover, which one was that?
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| Markustay |
Posted - 26 Aug 2012 : 19:36:47
I didn't bother following any of the 'leads' - I just scanned for the words 'Marching Mountains' in the appropriate books. I hadn't realized High Shanatar lasted that long (so the Dwarves were the only ones to have actually enforce their claim for a long time). That just reinforces my thoughts on the mountains being riddled with 'old digs' where dragons and beholders have lairs.
I couldn't find the reference to the Goblins myself, so I just guessed at about where'd they be in the timeline (I assumed the novel took place in the early 1e/2e/3e era). If they were there before high Shanatar, and still there 7000 years later, that is a bad gaff. Goblins kingdoms NEVER last that long (for many, MANY reasons), and the dwarves would have exterminated them during their own period of dominance. Its certainly not one of the largest chains around.
On the other hand, you could spin it that the goblins controlled the a good portion of the mountains surface (and shallow caves) with the dwarves blessing. Odd, I know, but not implausible. Dwarves have been know to maintain 'buffer races' between themselves and powerful adversaries. If they were working with the dwarves (or at least had a detente/armistice), that could also help explain the stability of such a realm for such a long time.
Not so far fetched - picture dwarves handing goblins (low quality) dwarven weapons and armor, and saying "we'll give you more, just use them on those humans over there (and maybe some elves, but we didn't say that)". Dwarves manage two threats without endangering dwarven lives - sounds like something a very sensible race would come up with. And goblins will side with anyone (except maybe gnomes) who hand them weapons and give them stuff to kill. This might be the most reasonable explanation, and the most interesting to spin the timeline discrepancies.
Having not read the novel, nor found a sourcebook entry, I can't even begin to know how far off I might be. I'm just taking guesses based on what else has been going on in the area.
As for how far they may have traveled to fight with the Sythillisians - from what I recall, goblinoids and giants traveled much further to join them. By comparison, the marching Mountains were 'in the neighborhood'. If other large groups managed to gather covertly, then there is no reason to assume the Kurot Goblins couldn't have done so as well.
BTW, I am no fan of that lore - I hate the Sythillisian war, so I don't want anyone to think I am spinning things that way because I like it. I am using whats available in the general vicinity. You could even say they have moved down into the Forest of Mir and are currently losing a lot to the drow. Or conversely, they haven't gone anywhere - they have a similar 'deal' with the Twisted Rune as the one I hypothesized for the dwarves above. 'Crappy goblins' is a good cover for 'big bads' to hide behind. |
| Jakuta Khan |
Posted - 26 Aug 2012 : 16:37:47
Thx Markus for the timeline, much appreciated.
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| Mumadar Ibn Huzal |
Posted - 25 Aug 2012 : 22:08:42
With High Shanatar's lifespan running from around -6000DR to -2600DR is not exactly a short-lived realm, not even in relation to dwarven lifespans...
As for Kurot leading his 'kingdom' across Tethyr to Amn seems to be quite an undertaking for a race not normally so well organized....
I haven't read Star of Cursrah and therefore do not know in which of the two time periods that that book deals with Kurot and his Goblins show up, but one of the time periods is set in -6048DR, i.e. a few centuries before the founding of High Shanatar and well before anything with the Sythillisian army; and the other period is set in 1369DR, after the Reclamation Wars in Tethyr, and with a new Monarchy more or less in firm control of the country, a situation that would complicate the logistics of moving an entire kingdom across a civilized and an actively monster hunting nation... |
| Markustay |
Posted - 25 Aug 2012 : 20:26:01
I unfortunately lost the timeline I was building (my comp mysteriously unplugged itself) for the Mountain range, but here is the gist of it:
It was once part of keltormir, an elven Realm during the Crown Wars. Its doubtful they bothered with the peaks above the tree line (some 2 miles above sea level). One can assume there were probably a couple of dragons hiding in those highest peaks. many millenia later, the Dgen (genies) came along, and decided to eradicate anything that posed a threat to them, which meant killing/scattering all the dragons. It doesn't appear they did anything with the range - they just didn't want anyone else using it. Sometime while the Dgen still ruled, the dwarven realms of deep Shanatar arose, and started mining (beneath) the mountains. After the Dgen fell from power, the human nation of Coramshan formed, and the mountains were one of its borders. Although it has been claimed by various iterations of the 'Empire of the Sands', they've never really done more then build a few fortresses around it. Human raiders/tomb robbers/thieves began to use the mountains as a sanctuary from authorities, which eventually drove the dwarves to create High Shanatar, to stop the human encroachment. this lead to a human/dwarf war, which eventually involved the elves (for some four hundred years). This in turn lead to the decline of Shanatar, and a schism between the dwarves and elves. By the time the Tethyrian slaves began to rebel against Coramshan, the mountains were pretty much deserted by any major power, and the rebels used the mountains as a good place to hide, and launch future attacks from. They also found dwarven weapons caches, and eventually the 'front' of their rebellion pushed out of the mountains, leaving the mountains fairly deserted once again (of any major groups/threats). I assume dragons once-again began to move into the mountains at this time, along with beholders from the Lake of steam region (the abandoned dwarven digs and holds made for excellent lairs).
At some point several prominent members of the Twisted Rune began to use the Marching Mountains as a base of operations, to the point of driving out or controlling any others (including the dragons and beholders). Below sea level, there is indication of both a drow and illithid presence as well. This is how it was left at the end of 3e. I have no idea what 4e did to the mountains and/or the twisted Rune. One 'might' assume the Eminence of Araunt took some interest in the Rune and their holdings.
Throughout its history, several nations claimed the Marching Mountains, including nearly all iterations of the Empire of the sands and Tethyr, but did not even try to hold it in any appreciable way (and usually Tethyr and Calimshan both claimed it at the same time). This means despite these (empty) claims, the Mountains have remained under no one rule since the Dawn Ages. The dwarves of Shanatar can claim to have held the chain for awhile, but they held the underdark below the mountains - high Shanatar was a short-lived realm. Around the time of 1e/2e, the Twisted Rune seems firmly entrenched in those mountains.
My best guess would be that the goblin kingdom you found existed between the time of shanatar and the rise of the twisted Rune, and probably only survived on the good graces of local dragons (who likely considered them a good food source) and beholders who didn't want to be bothered (or get noticed). They 'probably' lived on the wooded slopes, but not deep within the mountains (shallow caves), just to avoide the other powerful creatures lurking nearby. That would help to explain how they avoided those threats (dragons would likely lair above the woodline, and beholders in the underdark). All of this would have ended when the Twisted Rune showed up. The various tribes making up the kingdom would have succumbed to the Rune's control (if they didn't feel like outright exterminating them), or left for 'greener pastures'.
Which means I would say they joined the Sythillisian army. This 'king' Kurot would have at least managed to remain a leader (a general?), after losing his kingdom. There is no way he could have maintained power in the Rune-controlled Marching Mountains. some tribes may still reside there, either under the twisted Rune's thumb, or so small as to be beneath everyone's notice. Whatever forces Korat still controls, he probably moved them into the Small teeth after the war with Amn was over (because he would not have wanted to loose power to any of the other goblinoid groups/leaders present). He would be a vassal to the Ogres, though, and still have to answer to them. I am sure the Orcs and other goblinoids claimed the much-better lowlands. That leaves just the giants to share the high reaches of the mountains with.
Thats how I see it playing-out, nothing canonical (beyond the timeline I threw together at the beginning there). |
| Jakuta Khan |
Posted - 25 Aug 2012 : 07:29:34
thx for being back at least.
I was actually wondering, for they were explicitly mentioned as big kingdom in the summary, and in the specific mountain info, they did not appear at all. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 24 Aug 2012 : 20:46:22
Sorry, haven't thought about goblins in awhile, and my notes are all gone. I'll have to refresh my memory on this region.
EDIT: I was just throwing together a timeline of the Marching Mountains - where did you read about those goblins? |
| Jakuta Khan |
Posted - 24 Aug 2012 : 18:48:33
Thx Mumadar,
but really no more information on this??
Markustay?
I had hoped you have fledged something out or found on those as well. |
| Mumadar Ibn Huzal |
Posted - 21 Jul 2012 : 19:43:18
there is a tidbit in scrolls here on Candlekeep. Apparently there's a reference in Star of Cursrah |
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