| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Barastir |
Posted - 28 Oct 2011 : 11:23:18
I've recently discovered about a game book centered in Daggerford, and whose main character is the half-elven ranger Kelson Darktreader. However, I couldn't find the book, so I wanted to check out if someone knows if the book brings more information about this character (any roleplaying/personality tips?), and what information does it brings about the Castle Dragonspear and its denizens. Can anybody help me, please? |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Markustay |
Posted - 12 Mar 2014 : 23:18:59
*meh* - I'm over it. Got bigger fish to fry.
I did thoroughly enjoy Mike Schley's version of the map I drew - it was the precise layout (merging the 1e/2e maps with the 3e one) I had done, but then repainted by the unbelievably talented Mr. Schley... which is like a dream come true for me. I never said I was an artist - I am an 'accurate cartographer', and thats as far as it goes.
So that was like my brain (with an ENORMOUS amount of back-and-forth input from Eric Boyd) attached to Mike Schley's hands.. it doesn't really get better then that (to me, I mean... the rest of you are probably gagging). 
P.S. - Oddly, they also went with the original numbering for the Daggerford map, rather then the newer system Eric and I came up with. Oh well, he detailed EVERY building - that adventure probably just didn't have the room for all that. |
| Brian R. James |
Posted - 12 Mar 2014 : 15:34:34
As an organization WotC is very mistrusting of freelancers. I've also had map tags changed on me as well Markus. I'd explained to them that the official map was mislabeled or conflicted with another, more accurate source. As you did Markus, I would go to Ed for the correct answer. It also helped that I had direct access to Mike Schley if need be. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 11 Mar 2014 : 21:50:14
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Markustay, "Womford" should read WORMFORD, and it is, yes, a separate (VERY small) place from Ironford, specifically a ford (where a small, young dragon was reputedly killed, centuries ago), a mill (mixed grains grinding, or "grist" in North American parlance), and three houses, one of which belongs to Laerran Hawksul, a cynical, saturnine bearded retired adventurer who trades in perfumes, spices, and cordials (as in, semi-medicinal drinks that aren't magical ["potions"], or mixed freshly just before imbibing ["physics" or "physiks"]), buying and selling wares and ingredients (he makes his own cordials, and resells those of others) from/with passing caravan merchants. Wormford has a deep "sweetwater" (clear, pleasant drinking water) well sourced from a subterranean spring that has no connection to the river. It also has two orchards (that bear many "sourapples," the big, sour, green-skinned baking apples, more pedantically known as Orslen's Greens, that end up in many Sword Coast larders because they last so long before going rotten)
This is all straight from Ed's early notes...
love,
THO
I finally got a look at the 'Daggerford Enirons' map that came with the Scourge of the Sword Coast Encounters, and they got the name wrong... AGAIN. It reads 'Womford', even though I corrected it on the map I submitted for that (which Mike Schley must have worked off of).
Seriously... did they think I made an error? They decided to keep the original mistake, instead of using Ed's correct lore... which bodes ILL for everything else. 
Or maybe it was an honest mistake, instead of a deliberate one. You know, like the original mistake. There is no need to assume the worst without more information to back up that assumption. |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 11 Mar 2014 : 21:21:32
More than a century has passed Markustay and it is possible that Wormford has indeed become Womford to align with the local dialect where the "r" isn't usually pronounced. In addition, cartographers are notoriously inconsistent!
-- George Krashos |
| Markustay |
Posted - 11 Mar 2014 : 12:25:49
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Markustay, "Womford" should read WORMFORD, and it is, yes, a separate (VERY small) place from Ironford, specifically a ford (where a small, young dragon was reputedly killed, centuries ago), a mill (mixed grains grinding, or "grist" in North American parlance), and three houses, one of which belongs to Laerran Hawksul, a cynical, saturnine bearded retired adventurer who trades in perfumes, spices, and cordials (as in, semi-medicinal drinks that aren't magical ["potions"], or mixed freshly just before imbibing ["physics" or "physiks"]), buying and selling wares and ingredients (he makes his own cordials, and resells those of others) from/with passing caravan merchants. Wormford has a deep "sweetwater" (clear, pleasant drinking water) well sourced from a subterranean spring that has no connection to the river. It also has two orchards (that bear many "sourapples," the big, sour, green-skinned baking apples, more pedantically known as Orslen's Greens, that end up in many Sword Coast larders because they last so long before going rotten)
This is all straight from Ed's early notes...
love,
THO
I finally got a look at the 'Daggerford Enirons' map that came with the Scourge of the Sword Coast Encounters, and they got the name wrong... AGAIN. It reads 'Womford', even though I corrected it on the map I submitted for that (which Mike Schley must have worked off of).
Seriously... did they think I made an error? They decided to keep the original mistake, instead of using Ed's correct lore... which bodes ILL for everything else. |
| ericlboyd |
Posted - 08 Jun 2012 : 15:26:11
quote:
Originally posted by Barastir
Very good, Mr. Boyd. Then Melandrach is not as shy or xenophobic as the usual wild elves in your version, right? Cause that's the impression I have on his earliest (N5) depiction, when only the players' saving of his life made him thankful, and even friendly to a basically human party.
He is more worldly than his kin in my version. |
| Barastir |
Posted - 08 Jun 2012 : 15:14:15
Very good, Mr. Boyd. Then Melandrach is not as shy or xenophobic as the usual wild elves in your version, right? Cause that's the impression I have on his earliest (N5) depiction, when only the players' saving of his life made him thankful, and even friendly to a basically human party. |
| ericlboyd |
Posted - 08 Jun 2012 : 14:01:38
I like the skinwalker idea.
I made Melandrach a wild elf ranger 5 / wildrunner 9, so he's actually a fey now.
I also laced the Laughing Hollow with fey crossroads and backroads (as described in Magic of Faerun).
Agwain has been courting Bronwyn. Bronwyn is sort-interested in him / really interested in becoming an adventurer. So, a marriage to Agwain, who she figures she can manipulate, is socially acceptable, and far away from Daggerford sounds better than a forced marriage to Lord Urmbrusk, who is maneuvering to make her brother have no other choice.
Agwain and Bronwyn fled to the Laughing Hollow, not along the more logical routes, because they hired the Baitseller (see my thread) to come with them. They're hoping to leapfrog the entire Laughing Hollow, and thus get well ahead of pursuers, by being escorted along the backroads by the spriggan.
Melandrach has come to see what's happening at the crossroads when the goblins attacks Agwain and Bronwyn. Melandrach watches the PCs defend the baron and his bride-to-be before making himself known.
Then, the PCs have a chance to influence the outcome of Bronwyn's fate. Assuming they are wise, Melandrach is impressed. Leading to the next mission. |
| Barastir |
Posted - 08 Jun 2012 : 12:10:14
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
Yeah, that's the other big problem. I'm working on that though.
I'm trying to make Bronwyn's choice to go on with Baron Agwain, go off on her own, or return to Daggeford more morally ambiguous. If it makes her brother look weak, her action might well weaken her brother's rule (and ability to hold off Lord Tarn Urmbrusk). She'll turn to the PCs for help in deciding. Melandrach, who she and Agwain were coming to meet (sort of) will be impressed (presumably) by their thoughtfulness.
--Eric
quote:
Originally posted by Barastir
In my campaign I've also made the menace on Melandrach's life a little different, considering a few goblin archers and axemen would not be a match for a 7th level fighter/ 10th level druid (with "shapechange" and many other powers). I think that's why baron Agwain died in my game, the goblins had an ogre in their party. I've also empowered the villains because my PCs were 3rd/4th level, then.
In my game, Melandrach was a skinwalker, and being so could only transform into crow form. Knowing this, the goblins prepared a trap, a bladed cage in which they captured the druid, preventing him to change back to elf, and cast spells. But the adventurers arrived when they have just captured the crow, and they released the bird without knowing what exactly they were freeing, but sure that goblins would be up to no good. The usually isoliationist elf king of the woods was thankful for his life and gave them their leather pendants, just like in the original adventure (which they used twice after that, in missions in or near the Hollow).
But then again, what's your idea about Melandrach meeting Agwain and Bronwyn? Got curious about that. |
| ericlboyd |
Posted - 01 Jun 2012 : 17:48:17
quote:
Originally posted by Barastir
I've checked it out, and the only creature that looks somewhat similar to Blackeye's given description I found was a Guardian Yugoloth, known as "Guardian Daemon" in the earlier 1e Fiend Folio. However, those fiends are horned, and there I see no mention to goat legs and the ability to "alter self" - the bat wings in the page's (and 2e Monstrous Manual) picture are the artist's perspective, since the description only says "winged". 
Yeah, I couldn't find much either. One could always argue he was a unique outcast devil from Avernus ... there were loads of them if you read Ed's old Nine Hells articles. Reminds me of a certain unpublished adventure I have sitting on my hard drive ... |
| Barastir |
Posted - 01 Jun 2012 : 11:41:18
I've checked it out, and the only creature that looks somewhat similar to Blackeye's given description I found was a Guardian Yugoloth, known as "Guardian Daemon" in the earlier 1e Fiend Folio. However, those fiends are horned, and there I see no mention to goat legs and the ability to "alter self" - the bat wings in the page's (and 2e Monstrous Manual) picture are the artist's perspective, since the description only says "winged". |
| ericlboyd |
Posted - 31 May 2012 : 18:33:36
Tosti's Tower detailed in the other Chamber of Sages thread. |
| ericlboyd |
Posted - 31 May 2012 : 12:05:23
Yeah, that's the other big problem. I'm working on that though.
I'm trying to make Bronwyn's choice to go on with Baron Agwain, go off on her own, or return to Daggeford more morally ambiguous. If it makes her brother look weak, her action might well weaken her brother's rule (and ability to hold off Lord Tarn Urmbrusk). She'll turn to the PCs for help in deciding. Melandrach, who she and Agwain were coming to meet (sort of) will be impressed (presumably) by their thoughtfulness.
--Eric
quote:
Originally posted by Barastir
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
The original mission around Bronwyn's kidnapping had a lot of problems, IMO, including a CG baron committing murder, kidnapping, and forcible marriage, as well as the original plot fading away without resolution once Melandrach shows up.
--Eric
In my campaign I've also made the menace on Melandrach's life a little different, considering a few goblin archers and axemen would not be a match for a 7th level fighter/ 10th level druid (with "shapechange" and many other powers). I think that's why baron Agwain died in my game, the goblins had an ogre in their party. I've also empowered the villains because my PCs were 3rd/4th level, then.
|
| Barastir |
Posted - 31 May 2012 : 11:56:34
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
The original mission around Bronwyn's kidnapping had a lot of problems, IMO, including a CG baron committing murder, kidnapping, and forcible marriage, as well as the original plot fading away without resolution once Melandrach shows up.
--Eric
In my campaign I've also made the menace on Melandrach's life a little different, considering a few goblin archers and axemen would not be a match for a 7th level fighter/ 10th level druid (with "shapechange" and many other powers). I think that's why baron Agwain died in my game, the goblins had an ogre in their party. I've also empowered the villains because my PCs were 3rd/4th level, then. |
| Barastir |
Posted - 30 May 2012 : 18:22:26
Got it, it's a nice idea. I've used elements from the original adventure, but placed them in 1367/68 DR. It was the first published adventure I adopted into my game campaign, and back then (almost 15 years ago) I had no idea about the dates.  |
| ericlboyd |
Posted - 29 May 2012 : 20:18:39
quote:
Originally posted by Barastir
Mr. Boyd, I've found curious the turn you gave on Baron Agwain's courtship over Lad Bronwyn. At first, I was thinking that the baron would have died in the goblin's attack in Under Illefarn, and so maybe one of the pregenerated characters, who would be members of Bronwyn's future Ironedge adventure company - according to The North - would be a better romantic option for the sister of the Duke. But then I checked the first module out and discovered that the death of the baron from Secomber only happened in my game table. Anyway, will you write something about the Ironedge and their link with the Harpers?
I'm doing these write-ups as of 1357 DR, which is the original module date. The events in The North: Daggerford haven't happened yet.
The original mission around Bronwyn's kidnapping had a lot of problems, IMO, including a CG baron committing murder, kidnapping, and forcible marriage, as well as the original plot fading away without resolution once Melandrach shows up.
I'm trying to keep the same basic adventure, but change the motivations so it makes more sense and is more consistent.
--Eric |
| Barastir |
Posted - 29 May 2012 : 19:50:58
Mr. Boyd, I've found curious the turn you gave on Baron Agwain's courtship over Lad Bronwyn. At first, I was thinking that the baron would have died in the goblin's attack in Under Illefarn, and so maybe one of the pregenerated characters, who would be members of Bronwyn's future Ironedge adventure company - according to The North - would be a better romantic option for the sister of the Duke. But then I checked the first module out and discovered that the death of the baron from Secomber only happened in my game table. Anyway, will you write something about the Ironedge and their link with the Harpers? |
| Barastir |
Posted - 29 May 2012 : 11:33:29
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
Filvendor's sword is now detailed in the other thread.
Very good, Mr. Boyd. I'm also checking the NPCs and plots, and just saw Lady Bronwin's entry. Good work, indeed! |
| ericlboyd |
Posted - 28 May 2012 : 20:43:17
quote:
Originally posted by Barastir
Thank you very much, Mr. Boyd. And I've checked the info in your "Chamber of Sages" page, very nice indeed. Although I've used, in my 2e campaign, the "mixed potion" explanation for the Greatshout ability of Duke Pwyll. 
Filvendor's sword is now detailed in the other thread. |
| Barastir |
Posted - 28 May 2012 : 13:03:50
Thank you very much, Mr. Boyd. And I've checked the info in your "Chamber of Sages" page, very nice indeed. Although I've used, in my 2e campaign, the "mixed potion" explanation for the Greatshout ability of Duke Pwyll. |
| ericlboyd |
Posted - 26 May 2012 : 12:44:03
I dug out my copy of the book and read through it last night. There's actually a fair amount of lore you can deduce if you compare it to the write-up of Kelson in N5 - Under Illefarn.
In addition to appearances by Piergeiron, Eltan, Moruene, Pwyll, Pryden, Llwellyn, Bronwyn, Garth, and Owenden (none of which really add any knew information about their characters), we learn:
1) The book is set in 1354 DR, which is the year the Dragonspear War started. (I had guessed this based on implications in the FRCS 1e, but now we have a definitive date. You can determine this because Kelson is listed as 55 in this book [Page 6], but 58 in N5. Since N5 is set in 1357 DR, this book is set in 1354 DR.)
2) We learn the name of Kelson's human mother (Jillian Forestheart) and predecessor as Master-of-the-Hunt (Sean Far-Ranger). (Page 6.)
3) We learn the name of Melandrach's son, Deldragor, and granddaughter, Dredin “Longshot”. (Page 94.)
4) We learn that Filvendor, Kelson's father, went on to the High Moor in 1335 DR (the date's a little ambiguous, but that's the most repeated date), killed an ice worm (probably a remorhaz, as they were sometimes called that in 1e), left his old magic sword with the barbarians of the High Moor, and found a better one in the ice worm's horde. From the description, it sounds like the ice worm's sword had a high ego and made Filvendor go east to the Inner Sea Lands on some unnamed quest. (Page 149.) We also learn that Filvendor's old sword was enchanted and glows when it confronts evil. (Page 111.)
(One other path has Kelson battling a troll and recovering an enchanted blade. [Page 104.])
5) "Blackeye" the devil appears to be a new type of devil. He has fangs, the body of a bear, black-feathered wings, goat legs, and eagle talons for feet. He also has the ability to "alter self." (Page 128.)
6) The barbarian tribes of the High Moor include druids. Two of those tribes (this is a bit of Realmslore I probably wouldn't use ...) are named Belcondi and Girondi. (Page 147.)
7) There's a small village called Tosti's Tower between the Misty Forest and Daggerford, named for the fortified tower built centuries ago when the land was first scoured by goblinkind. (Page 100, 182.)
8) One title for Elorfindar is "Elorfindar of the High Reaches". (Page 94.)
9) The local name for Orcish is Blacktongue. (Page 22, 63, 77, 87.)
10) The basic plot (page 37, 91) by the devils of Dragonspear Castle (represented by a bat-winged devil more powerful than Blackeye, page 161) was to sack Daggerford while Daggerford's defenders besieged Dragonspear Castle. Basically, they forced an orc named Jacurt Redclaw to muster a horde on the High Moor on the edge of the Misty Forest. He was supposed to march that horde to the River Delimbiyr, cross on orc-made coracles. Meanwhile the devil Blackeye was to go to Daggerford, assume the guise of Kelson, and open the River Gate. Then the orc horde could enter Daggerford and sack the town. Blackeye also chose to romance Bronwyn, although it's unclear if that was part of the plan or opportunistic.
I'll put a write-up of Kelson in the other thread where I've been posting Daggerford NPCs.
|
| Barastir |
Posted - 05 Feb 2012 : 02:52:55
I don't know this Gwydion form the Moonshaes, the one we'e talking about in this thread is Gwydion pen Dafwyd, the old court wizard of Daggerford. I've never seen further detail of his previous life, but I assumed he always lived there.
Who is this Gwydion of the Moonshaes, Rhewtani, and where have you read about him? |
| Rhewtani |
Posted - 03 Feb 2012 : 16:58:40
Wait, is this the wizard Gwydion from the Moonshaes? |
| Barastir |
Posted - 03 Feb 2012 : 10:10:38
I've found Ironford, the 1e and 2e North sourcebooks state that "Bargewright Inn" stands in the same place. I have the Forgotten Realms Interactive Atlas, so I found it, both are really close. However, since Lady THO told us it was in a different place, I thought maybe [hint] some new insight would come about its true location [/hint]...  |
| xaeyruudh |
Posted - 03 Feb 2012 : 09:37:34
quote:
Originally posted by Barastir
where exactly is located Wormford?
as Markustay hinted earlier, Wormford is shown (in the Under Illefarn adventure) where Ironford appears in the Atlas.
so (in longer words for anyone who doesn't have Ironford on a map) when you're looking at a 1e/2e map, Wormford is on the east bank of the Dessarin, straight north of Ardeep Forest and straight east of Westwood. which puts it close to Red Larch, from whence a path leads, through Wormford, southeast to Secomber.
THO has stated that Wormford is not the same place as Ironford. so... one of them must be up or down the river a few paces? |
| The Sage |
Posted - 03 Feb 2012 : 01:40:14
quote:
Originally posted by Halidan
No tribe named mentioned, but I like yours. Consider it borrowed. Yes, they came from Dragonspear. Happy to help - I hope nobody minds us using this thread as basically a private conversation, butn it seems I may be the only sage at the Keep with a copy of the book.
No, I've a copy as well. I just haven't read through it in a very long time. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 02 Feb 2012 : 19:19:19
quote:
Originally posted by Halidan
No tribe named mentioned, but I like yours. Consider it borrowed. Yes, they came from Dragonspear. Happy to help - I hope nobody minds us using this thread as basically a private conversation, butn it seems I may be the only sage at the Keep with a copy of the book.
I had a copy, but I've not yet replaced it. |
| Barastir |
Posted - 02 Feb 2012 : 18:19:42
I was also wondering about it, but the thread is open to everyone who feels curious about this source. Besides, there was the participation of Markustay and the response of THO some time ago... They are very welcome, if they want to make part of this discussion. I still would like to read more about Wormford and this old map (I found Ironford in an old North acessory). |
| Halidan |
Posted - 02 Feb 2012 : 15:59:41
No tribe named mentioned, but I like yours. Consider it borrowed. Yes, they came from Dragonspear. Happy to help - I hope nobody minds us using this thread as basically a private conversation, butn it seems I may be the only sage at the Keep with a copy of the book. |
| Barastir |
Posted - 01 Feb 2012 : 09:36:28
These orcs have a tribe name? Since their leader is Jagurt Redclaw, maybe they could be the Redclaw tribe, right? They come from the Dragonspear Castle, from the vicinities of this vile fort in the High Moor, or from anywhere else? Once again, thank you for the previous info. |
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