| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Mr_Miscellany |
Posted - 27 Oct 2010 : 22:15:58
My question revolves around the idea that pre-Plague spells relied on the Weave; its existence is an implicit part of spellcasting theory and practice in the pre-Plague Realms.
In the current era of the Realms, that’s not the case because there’s no Weave.
So my question is this: why don’t mages self-detonate when they cast a spell using older methods?
Absent the Weave, I don’t understand why magic wasn’t (and still isn't) like one great big giant Pool of Radiance, ready to funnel massive amounts of uncontrollable raw magical energy into the first unfortunate mage that tried to cast a spell after the Spellplague hit.
Even if we suppose things have “settled down” magic-wise, what’s keeping mages from getting burned by magic left ungoverned?
Is there anything definitive in the recent crop of novels about using pre-Plague spellcasting techniques in the post-Spellplague era of the Realms? Or did the authors and editors commit the biggest hand-wave since the 3E Realms hit the stands at your FLGS?
I don’t recall the FRCG saying anything about it.
Also, the game concepts of Arcane, Divine and Martial power sources: are these defined or explained at all in the novels? Is there anything hinting that this is what magic has settled into (so to speak) so that magic can be used reasonably safely by character classes of various types?
The reason for my questions is that I’m trying to figure out in general what should happen to the War Wizards from the past that will be appearing all over post-Plague Cormyr in my NaNoWriMo novel when they start trying to cast spells using pre-Plague techniques and methods.
Absent anything even semi-official, I’m quite happy to hear your duly noted conjecture and theorizing.
No edition battles plzthanks.
Oh, any notes on old magic items and how they function in the post-Plage era (didn’t Rich Baker have something to say on this?) would be most helpful.
Thanks all in advance! 
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| 3 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Markustay |
Posted - 27 Nov 2010 : 19:13:33
In a way, because magic is no longer 'constrained' by the Weave (and has finally 'settled down' after the storm), it now permeates EVERYTHING (which is probably how it was originally).
Ergo, it is reasonable to assume that the Martial power-source can be included in this 'new', easier-to-access power. It was always there, BTW - in OA they simply referred to it as 'Ki' (and assassins obviously had some access to it in the past, through Baal). Different cultures called it by different names, but all it does is tap into your own 'inner Radiance' and uses it to extend your normal capabilites, in much the same way as magic or psionics.
It's just a different kind of magic - tapping your reserves to do extraordinary things. Because it is based on drawing from within, rather then channeling energies from without, the abilities are much more focused on personal augmentation then the 'flashier' forms of magic we are used to.
All 'magic' is is the ability to do something that others can't, because they haven't figured out how to yet. That's it; creating light, flying, seeing things happening in other places, traveling to other 'worlds' - all things we have done in the past century, and all things that would have been considered 'magic' until then.
So if you realize that 'magic' = 'ignorance', then you know that 'Knowledge' = 'Power', and magic isn't really a 'thing', but rather a description applied to very real results by cultures who do not (yet) comprehend the science behind them. There is no magic; merely ignorance. |
| Alisttair |
Posted - 25 Nov 2010 : 13:53:41
quote:
Originally posted by Mr_MiscellanyAlso, the game concepts of Arcane, Divine and Martial power sources: are these defined or explained at all in the novels? Is there anything hinting that this is what magic has settled into (so to speak) so that magic can be used reasonably safely by character classes of various types?
Not sure if you are saying that Martial power is somehow part of what magic has become, but its unrelated and if someone who is martial would time travel to when there was a weave he wouldn't use the weave to use his martial powers. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 27 Oct 2010 : 23:40:57
According to past-lore, if the weave were NOT in-place, Toril's excessive magical energies would literally 'burn-out' Mages.
Ed had it where the Weave = 'life' (although that changed back & forth several times in the offical setting). Ed also said that the weave was 'in-place' to hold back 'pure' magic (or something to that affect). presumably, that's the stuff karsus got a hold of (or didn't get a hold of, really - he had to 'flush' the 'heavy magic' over the side of the enclave and created the lich Wulgreth in the process).
So we can surmise the following: if the stuff Karsus got a hold of created a very powerful undead instantly (without the normal ritual), then the stuff that the weave is actually holding at bay is 'unlife'.
So the weave didn't really = life, what it equaled was 'the preservation of life'.
Now, given that umbral (Shadow) energy = 'death', and radiant energy = 'life' (in a 4e, hindsight kinda way), we can further surmise that arcane (Weave) magic held shadow away from the world (which, I suppose, is where the concept that the shadoweave was the 'spaces between the weave' comes from - those were really 'leaks' where umbral energy managed to squeeze through).
Going a step further, if arcane/weave magic is related to life, then it must be a filtered version of radiant energy - this is why I think 'Silver Fire' is really pure radiant energy, and 'blue Fire' is the Arcane (filtered) version of that.
So like a cigarette, we can get our magic 'filtered', or 'unfiltered', but 'unfiltered' is gonna kill you that much faster. 
Now that I have established all of my own assumptions about how this crap works, I can move forward and answer your question about how I see this all playing-out in the post-plague world (given the rules we now have in-place).
When Ao split the world, he had to use material from the one sphere, thus weakening it. This is when I think the weave needed to be made - the weakened planer walls that held-back all the nastiness had to be bolstered, and the Weave served that purpose.
Two more assumptions have to be made at this point - when Abeir was cordoned off, Ao created another crystal sphere to contain it (this is regardless of weather Abeir had its own planetary system, or it was isolated by itself). That is the first assumption: that the separation of the worlds created the inherent vulnerability that Realmspace had to 'unflitered magic'. The second assumption follows: that when the Spellplague broke-out and the weave went down, the two worlds were forced back together, NOT because of the Spellplague, but because Ao HAD TO shunt them back within the same sphere to reinforce the Realms' weakened planer boundaries.
For a brief period the two over-lapped (and real-estate was exchanged), and then Ao finally managed to correct the problem. Now I have to make a third assumption - that Abeir is no longer contained within its own sphere, since Ao was able to keep Umbral energy from killing everyone on Toril*. Now you can do what you want with Abeir - have it invisible within Realmspace, or have it orbiting within Toril's orbit but on the other side of the sun, or have it somewhere way-out past H'Catha - WHATEVER. You can even say he just did away with it if that floats your boat (although canonically it is supposed to still exist somewhere).
Either way, the crystal sphere of Realmspace has been restored to it's original luster, and the need for the Weave to hold-back the ebil no longer exists. This is why everyone didn't just up-and-die, as previous lore had alluded to.
Going back to when the weave was created - Mystryl (it's consciousness) was created at the same time. The Uber-artifact that was the weave was created for one purpose - to reinforce the planer boundary - but Mystryl, being the clever git that she was (or precocious child - take your pick), figured-out a way to make all that energy being exchanged (the irresistible force - Umbral energy - meeting an immovable object - the Weave) into a dynamic force of its own (Arcane magic that mortals can readily acquire and use). Thus, she became the goddess of magic, through her own cleverness, and not as per her original design. I have more on this, but it ties into my theory on what really happened during the War of light & Darkness.
Before, a caster attempting to access 'pure magic' would have created a momentary 'hole' in the planer boundary (by draining the arcane energies in the vicinity), and allowed Umbral energy to seap-through and kill them instantly. Using the weave was the only 'safe bet', because it spread the usage out and did not create these temporary weak-points. Since the world has been reset to how it 'always should have been', mortals can now access arcane energy directly without Mytryl's weave and without fear that it will kill them. The rituals (spells) required previously were part of the weave's intricate interface, which is no longer necessary, or available.
So to (finally) answer your question, casting a spell using older methods wouldn't work, for the same reason that programming in old BASIC won't work on a new computer - the parameters have changed and that 'old method' no longer works (because the machine it 'ran on' no longer exists). However, just like a picture generated on your old dot-matrix printer would still exist, so would any physical items created using the weave continue to exist, long after the Weave itself is but a memory. Once something is given physical form, it becomes independent of the magic that created it.
So casting an old-school spell would be just like typing on a keyboard that isn't plugged into anything.
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