| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Nicolai Withander |
Posted - 07 Jun 2009 : 15:18:07
Hi...
Ive been looking for information about the shadow wars and I cant find any. Where should I look?? And could some tell me when the was... in DR!
Thx |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Nicolai Withander |
Posted - 12 Jun 2009 : 11:22:59
Her age should be as you so truely say... 1325+712+1377 = 3414 as a minimum and the idea about her being close to 6000... well I like it.
So thanks for helping me narowing her age down to 3414 - 6000
 |
| The Sage |
Posted - 12 Jun 2009 : 08:37:13
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
I skimmed the rest of my library, but didn't see anything else of much use. Anyone have any more ideas?
See the "Realmslore from Elminster in Myth Drannor" from The Annotated Elminster. Lots of intriguing Ed-lore bits about the Srinshee in there.
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| Hoondatha |
Posted - 12 Jun 2009 : 02:11:38
I... hmm. I've never really given it much thought, to be honest. At the very least I'd make her old enough to use the maximum amount of high magic before she became a baelnorn, which is 1325 years old. Which would be 1325 + 712 + 1370 = 3407.
But when I think about it, there's this nice circular nature about her if we make her from Sharrven. We know she liked to use the ruined Dlardrageth palace in Myth Drannor as a hide-away, but why should she choose that spot? Maybe because she actually fought the Dlardrageths and the other fey'ri when she was a young mage in Sharrven during the Seven Citadels' War. Then her use of it becomes more than just the fact it was out of the way, but a subtle act of revenge against the people who resulted in the destruction of her first home. Which sounds like her, actually.
In this case, she's nearly 6000 years old (c. 4500 + 1370). |
| Nicolai Withander |
Posted - 11 Jun 2009 : 23:36:34
ok... I get that she could well be 10.000 years old... but what do you think. As Ive said before im no master of elven lore og FR lore at that. but to place a number that would be plausible what number would you say?
Personally I would put her age at around 1050+712+1377 = 3139
This number could be far from the true number; and its probably only Ed who knows her exact age. But I would say that ist a fair age and a plausible age too! Whats your take on this Hoondatha? |
| Hoondatha |
Posted - 11 Jun 2009 : 22:06:32
I was with you up until the Volo bit. |
| Ashe Ravenheart |
Posted - 11 Jun 2009 : 18:52:02
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
I agree as well with Khelben. I brought Vangey in because of of the War Wizards/PsiCorp link, which is a much better fit than the Moonstars to PsiCorp, IMHO.
Oooh! And those special psi-cops who monitor and investigate other psi-cops could be like the alarphons of the War Wizards. 
And the Sharn are the Vorlons and the Phaerimm are the Shadows! Harpers are Rangers! Volo is Londo Mollari!
Okay, I'm done... |
| Hoondatha |
Posted - 11 Jun 2009 : 17:44:08
Well, the truth about elven lifespans is that they live as long as they want to live. An elf can feel the call of Arvandor from birth, it's just for centuries life is much more interesting. Sooner or later, though, they slow down and get tired of the world and allow themselves to move to Arvandor.
Theoretically, an elf could resist the call indefinitely, living forever unless slain. In practice, most elves give in to the call once they reach the range given as their racial maximums. This is, incidentally, the same reason why you can't very well keep elves as slaves; they literally will themselves to die.
So there's no reason why an elf born in Sharrven, or for that matter one of the refugees who came with Durothil back in the Time of Dragons, couldn't still be walking around. They would just have to want to live badly enough. Add to that that she's a high mage, and becoming a high mage adds centuries to the elf's lifespan, and there's no way to draw any sort of hard number from the available data. |
| Nicolai Withander |
Posted - 11 Jun 2009 : 16:11:40
So would it be correct, canonical, to think that she would be about her full age of lifespan in -712, when she became a baelnorn? Namely 1050yo?
Or do you think that is way off? |
| The Sage |
Posted - 11 Jun 2009 : 01:16:47
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
I agree as well with Khelben. I brought Vangey in because of of the War Wizards/PsiCorp link, which is a much better fit than the Moonstars to PsiCorp, IMHO.
Oooh! And those special psi-cops who monitor and investigate other psi-cops could be like the alarphons of the War Wizards.
|
| Hoondatha |
Posted - 11 Jun 2009 : 01:10:41
Your mis-reading the table in Fall of Myth Drannor. It gives her birth as "?" and death as "666," five years after Eltargrim died. Oh, and it's coronal, by the way.
If you don't have it, what you really want is the Cormanthyr supplement. There it has more specific dates. It still doesn't give her birth, or anything more specific than the passage already cited, but does say she became a baelnorn in -712, and was restored to life in 212 (this is shown in the novel Elminster in Myth Drannor).
Of course, she didn't actually die in DR 666. That's just when she disappeared with the Rule Blade. We don't learn what she's been up to until the short story Tears So White in the Realms of Elves book, though there are hints in El in Hell. But for the purposes of the Fall of Myth Drannor adventure, she's as good as dead because she's removed and doesn't factor into the fighting. |
| Nicolai Withander |
Posted - 11 Jun 2009 : 00:55:35
I know that when it comes down to it she is as old as I want her to be, but in "The Fall of Myth-Drannor" her age is discribed as ?-666DR but she is talked about as being alive at the time Eltagrim was Corolal. But you said that she turned baelnorn in -712... Am I missing something or just stupid. I seem to have a problem adding things up! |
| Hoondatha |
Posted - 11 Jun 2009 : 00:23:17
That's taken word for word (literal copy-paste) from her write-up in Cormanthyr. It means exactly what I posted before, that her true age and most of her history is entirely unknown. Sharrven and Yrlaphon are two fallen elven empires (Sharrven was in the southern High Forest below the Star Mounts and Yrlaphon was east of Cormanthor, south of present-day Mulmaster). I posted the dates they existed, which you can use as rough guidelines.
End result: she's as old as you want her to be. She could be (relatively) young, born in the dying days of Yrlaphon, or she could have been one of the early people of Sharrven and fought in the Seven Citadels War against the daemonfey. It's all up to you, there aren't any specifics. |
| Nicolai Withander |
Posted - 10 Jun 2009 : 23:30:31
Thanks for the reply...
Ive found this on D&D wikipedia: "The true age of the Srinshee was virtually unknown, as is much about this mysterious and powerful woman; like many of great age and experience, misdirection and duplicity are essential for protecting her secrets. As many doubt her stories of being a young lass among the boughs of Sharrven as believe them. However, it is known and proven that one of her homes was among the elves of Yrlaphon before it fell to the orcs of Vastar, making her among the oldest elves ever to walk Toril."
What do you get out of this?
It does not make much sence to me, since im not that deep in the primodial Lore |
| Hoondatha |
Posted - 10 Jun 2009 : 23:07:56
Ok, I've checked my books, and unfortunately, the answer is there isn't a clear answer. The Shrinshee is a mystery. She doesn't appear in Grand History until the 300's DR, which doesn't help, and in Cormanthyr its vague. She was in Yrlaphon, which existed from -1535 DR to -722 DR. Since she's noted as becoming a baelnorn in -712, and elves don't become baelnorn until they reach the end of their lives (usually), we can probably date her at least as far back as -1200 DR.
If, however, she really did grow up in Sharrven, then she's considerably older. Sharrven existed from -7660 DR to -2770 DR. That's just unconfirmed rumor, though. So she's at least 2500 years old, and could be double that or more.
All this comes from from Cormanthyr, btw. Like I said, Grand History was a bust, and there really isn't much else on her beyond Fall of Myth Drannor (where she disappears) and a few cameos in Ed novels, which don't deal with her past. I skimmed the rest of my library, but didn't see anything else of much use. Anyone have any more ideas?
Incidentally, your original query about the Shadow War: that was the war between the drow of Maerimydra and the elves of Cormanthor and Rystall Wood. It's referenced briefly in the Shadowdale book of the 2e Revised FR Campaign Setting. The drow city itself might not actually have gotten its name until City of the Spider Queen; at any rate for a long, long time it was just "the drow beneath Shadowdale that used to rule the northern dales." CotSQ shows some of the history from the drow side, like the forward supply base that's become an isolated backwater. There's also a little bit about it in Eilistraee's section of Demihuman Deities, under Major Centers of Worship.
See what you get if you put a little thought and effort into your question? |
| Ashe Ravenheart |
Posted - 10 Jun 2009 : 18:23:51
I agree as well with Khelben. I brought Vangey in because of of the War Wizards/PsiCorp link, which is a much better fit than the Moonstars to PsiCorp, IMHO. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 10 Jun 2009 : 17:24:29
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Morden would make an excellent basis for a FR baddie, though the B5 shades and the FR shades are two wildly different critters... Morden could perhaps be a front man for a powerful Lower Plane baddy, thinks I.
Preferably, an ancient demon-lord, I think. Or the chaotic equivalent of the ancient Baatorians. 
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
I don't think Bester's all that much like Khelben or Vangey. But I think either of them would employ him in a heartbeat. Moonstars, anyone?
I'd say more Khelben than Vangey. Among their many similar personality traits, Bester's demonstrated a willingness to work with his enemies, but only if it also helps him advance his own agenda. Much like the Blackstaff.
Agreed on both counts.  |
| Markustay |
Posted - 10 Jun 2009 : 17:23:47
Wow... this thread has all the makings of a WotC thread...
there's more derailment here then actual meat. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 10 Jun 2009 : 17:10:41
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Morden would make an excellent basis for a FR baddie, though the B5 shades and the FR shades are two wildly different critters... Morden could perhaps be a front man for a powerful Lower Plane baddy, thinks I.
Preferably, an ancient demon-lord, I think. Or the chaotic equivalent of the ancient Baatorians.
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
I don't think Bester's all that much like Khelben or Vangey. But I think either of them would employ him in a heartbeat. Moonstars, anyone?
I'd say more Khelben than Vangey. Among their many similar personality traits, Bester's demonstrated a willingness to work with his enemies, but only if it also helps him advance his own agenda. Much like the Blackstaff. |
| Nicolai Withander |
Posted - 10 Jun 2009 : 17:01:01
Thank you for you advise on my questioneering and on the info! |
| Hoondatha |
Posted - 10 Jun 2009 : 16:54:27
I don't think Bester's all that much like Khelben or Vangey. But I think either of them would employ him in a heartbeat. Moonstars, anyone? |
| Hoondatha |
Posted - 10 Jun 2009 : 16:52:37
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
I guess that the question: How Old Is the Srinshee???? Would have pleased people more!
So How old the Srinshee??? Thats what I want to know... **** the Shadow War. I just knew that she was a survivor from that war!
Yes. Asking what you actually want answered is always a good idea. Providing extra information that could help us narrow it down is also a good idea. So something along the lines of: "I'm trying to figure out how old the Srinshee is. I know she was a survivor of the Shadow War, but can't find references to it. I've checked [insert list of books here] and no luck. Can you help?" It's amazing the difference being polite and complete makes.
Now, as to your question, the short answer is I don't know. Several thousand years at least. I'm afb right now, but places I want to check are Cormanthyr and A Grand History of the Realms. If you can check them faster, that's fine. If not, I'll look around when I get home tonight. |
| Ashe Ravenheart |
Posted - 10 Jun 2009 : 16:34:56
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
The Shadow War takes place in the year 2260. At this time, Babylon 5 has broken away from the xenophobic Clark administration on Earth. Ties between Minbar, the breakaway Earth Alliance colonies and League of Non-Aligned Worlds are strengthened as the Shadows begin to move against them more openly.
Um... Am I on the right boards?
Oooh! Mr. Morden -- human with a derivative of the Shade Template?
Did you... Did you just compare Mr. Morden to Artemis Entreri?
(Oh god, here we go again. Another version of Dr. Who in the Realms...)
Morden would make an excellent basis for a FR baddie, though the B5 shades and the FR shades are two wildly different critters... Morden could perhaps be a front man for a powerful Lower Plane baddy, thinks I.
Though if I was going to adopt a B5 bad guy for the Realms, I think I'd have to go with Dark Chekov Bester, first.
I was just thinking of Bester. Although, he'd probably be more like Khelben or Vandergahast...  |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 10 Jun 2009 : 16:19:57
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
The Shadow War takes place in the year 2260. At this time, Babylon 5 has broken away from the xenophobic Clark administration on Earth. Ties between Minbar, the breakaway Earth Alliance colonies and League of Non-Aligned Worlds are strengthened as the Shadows begin to move against them more openly.
Um... Am I on the right boards?
Oooh! Mr. Morden -- human with a derivative of the Shade Template?
Did you... Did you just compare Mr. Morden to Artemis Entreri?
(Oh god, here we go again. Another version of Dr. Who in the Realms...)
Morden would make an excellent basis for a FR baddie, though the B5 shades and the FR shades are two wildly different critters... Morden could perhaps be a front man for a powerful Lower Plane baddy, thinks I.
Though if I was going to adopt a B5 bad guy for the Realms, I think I'd have to go with Dark Chekov Bester, first. |
| Nicolai Withander |
Posted - 10 Jun 2009 : 15:36:40
I guess that the question: How Old Is the Srinshee???? Would have pleased people more!
So How old the Srinshee??? Thats what I want to know... **** the Shadow War. I just knew that she was a survivor from that war!
|
| Ashe Ravenheart |
Posted - 10 Jun 2009 : 15:29:25
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
The Shadow War takes place in the year 2260. At this time, Babylon 5 has broken away from the xenophobic Clark administration on Earth. Ties between Minbar, the breakaway Earth Alliance colonies and League of Non-Aligned Worlds are strengthened as the Shadows begin to move against them more openly.
Um... Am I on the right boards?
Oooh! Mr. Morden -- human with a derivative of the Shade Template?
Did you... Did you just compare Mr. Morden to Artemis Entreri?
(Oh god, here we go again. Another version of Dr. Who in the Realms...) |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 10 Jun 2009 : 15:24:05
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
No... but that's a brilliant response to this stupidly-posed question.
I don't think it was stupidly posed... He was asking about something literally called the Shadow Wars. Sure, a reference would have been nice, but other than a lack of capitalization, he asked about exactly the thing he wanted info on. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 10 Jun 2009 : 15:21:19
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
The Shadow War takes place in the year 2260. At this time, Babylon 5 has broken away from the xenophobic Clark administration on Earth. Ties between Minbar, the breakaway Earth Alliance colonies and League of Non-Aligned Worlds are strengthened as the Shadows begin to move against them more openly.
Um... Am I on the right boards?
Oooh! Mr. Morden -- human with a derivative of the Shade Template? |
| Hoondatha |
Posted - 10 Jun 2009 : 14:55:17
No... but that's a brilliant response to this stupidly-posed question. |
| Ashe Ravenheart |
Posted - 10 Jun 2009 : 14:35:36
The Shadow War takes place in the year 2260. At this time, Babylon 5 has broken away from the xenophobic Clark administration on Earth. Ties between Minbar, the breakaway Earth Alliance colonies and League of Non-Aligned Worlds are strengthened as the Shadows begin to move against them more openly.
Um... Am I on the right boards? |
| Hoondatha |
Posted - 10 Jun 2009 : 14:07:24
Right, and this is why we need context. Especially with something as vague as a "shadow war." There have been dozens of conflicts that could fit that description throughout published lore.
Now that we know what you're actually looking for, we might have a chance of finding it. I'm afb so I can't look, but I'd suggest looking in the Grand History of the Realms as a starting point. |
