| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Ardashir |
Posted - 06 Feb 2009 : 18:40:16
She may be gone, but I still remember the Dancing Lady. ;)
More seriously, just what sources, in both gaming and fiction, covered Eilistraee and her worship/faith and temples*? I know she got mentioned quite a bit before being so unceremoniously removed, and I'd like to track down as many of these books and magazines as I can.
* -- Though the only temple of Eilistraee I remember reading about would be the Promenade in Skullport. But there's one in the Velarswood, I think, shared with Selunite werewolves?
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| 24 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 14 Feb 2009 : 22:44:26
quote:
Originally posted by Ardashir
quote:
Originally posted by Herkles
I have a question in regards to eilistraee and her followers. How do other elves view those that say they are eilistraeen? would a sun elf trust a drow that claims to be an eilistraeen? what of a moon elf? wild elf? or wood elf? Also how far would this trust extend? trust being, I won't kill you but leave me the hell alone? or trust as they would be freinds?
Well, there are some female surface elves who worship Eilistraee, and they would presumably be friendly to their sisters from the Underdark. And I imagine they could work as go-betweens, going from the drow fellow worshippers to surface elves.
And if I remember right Eilistraeen drow sometimes come to 'understandings' with nearby communities of wood elves. They will avoid each other and not fight, but they hardly become friends.
Hey even the lowly males worship the Dark Maiden *wink*
As for canon, there are female Preistess (a little more important then just followers) of other races in print, there was also a brief in print reference to a male Priest of Elistraee (Some wonder if that was a typo).
Out of print canon is when Ed speaks, because what he says is canon until new print changes it. What Ed has said there are priestess of many races posible and that there are male Preistesses (well Priests some of the time, but they have to ChangeDance into females as part of the process of being a Cleric/Pristess(Priest). |
| Ardashir |
Posted - 14 Feb 2009 : 18:50:05
quote:
Originally posted by Herkles
I have a question in regards to eilistraee and her followers. How do other elves view those that say they are eilistraeen? would a sun elf trust a drow that claims to be an eilistraeen? what of a moon elf? wild elf? or wood elf? Also how far would this trust extend? trust being, I won't kill you but leave me the hell alone? or trust as they would be freinds?
Well, there are some female surface elves who worship Eilistraee, and they would presumably be friendly to their sisters from the Underdark. And I imagine they could work as go-betweens, going from the drow fellow worshippers to surface elves.
And if I remember right Eilistraeen drow sometimes come to 'understandings' with nearby communities of wood elves. They will avoid each other and not fight, but they hardly become friends. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 12 Feb 2009 : 22:39:01
quote:
Originally posted by ErskineF
quote:
We have it established that Underdark Races, for the most part, HATE each other's guts.
But it's also established that they trade with each other. Skullport was the ideal neutral ground for such trade to take place. The "law enforcement" didn't depend on the trading factions. It didn't even preclude stabbing people in the back. It just kept the violence in the shadows and down to a minimum. I thought it was perfectly reasonable.
I should add, though, that I'm not as steeped in the lore as other people, especially the lore that comes from the novels.
I've read a lot of novels (including a few that deal with Skullport) and my take on the place was much the same as yours. It's not a place of peace and harmony, so much as a place where people mind don't cause too much trouble for pragmatic reasons (like not having the skulls come after you...). |
| ErskineF |
Posted - 12 Feb 2009 : 17:07:47
quote:
We have it established that Underdark Races, for the most part, HATE each other's guts.
But it's also established that they trade with each other. Skullport was the ideal neutral ground for such trade to take place. The "law enforcement" didn't depend on the trading factions. It didn't even preclude stabbing people in the back. It just kept the violence in the shadows and down to a minimum. I thought it was perfectly reasonable.
I should add, though, that I'm not as steeped in the lore as other people, especially the lore that comes from the novels.
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| Markustay |
Posted - 12 Feb 2009 : 15:15:40
I feel somewhat the same way.
Although I loved the lore (I love any FR lore - what can I say?), it just didn't fit the rest of the realms as seemlessly as a lot of other stuff.
We have it established that Underdark Races, for the most part, HATE each other's guts.
Then we have a city of INCREDIBLY evil and vile beings.... all living together in peace and harmony.
I could barely wrap my mind around that, even given the presence of the all-powerful skulls.
And then the Erevis Cale story set there just blew the whole thing out of the water for me.The main characters were able to EASILY get the factions fighting, and Skulls were destroyed!
Soooooooo... if this was so simple to do, and all these races involved are SO powerful (Illithids, Drow, etc..), why the hell didn't any of that happen centuries ago?! 
A barely-believable situation was created, and then that thin veil of believability was shattered by pointing out it's own absurdity.
I suppose Paul Kemp also realized how ridiculously fragile that particular settlement's infra-structure was as well.
Halaster and the Skulls are the glue holding all of that together (Skullport and Undermountain), and by removing one, and proven the others ineffectual, the entire logic behind the region was destroyed.
Ed built a carefully-balanced world, and now the entire thing looks like some Apple-cart that was not only tipped-over, but blown-up with a nuclear warhead... 
Anyhow, I went a little... 'off'.. there, but the bottom line is that evil races living together peacefully doesn't fit the theme of the rest of the Realms as well as it should, and thats probably what the product 'lacked', as least IMHO.
I didn't get that feeling of treachery lurking around every corner that I should have. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 11 Feb 2009 : 19:34:09
quote:
Originally posted by Ardashir
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Skullport was indeed a 2E supplement. I can't say it was one of my favorites.
Oh-oh, what was specifically wrong with it?
It's been so long since I read it that I don't recall any specifics... It just didn't grab me the way some other stuff has. Some stuff you love, some you're neutral about, some you dislike. I love Waterdeep and Undermountain, but I don't recall this supplement doing anything for me -- which was itself disappointing, considering how I feel about some of the other supplements for nearby areas. |
| Ardashir |
Posted - 11 Feb 2009 : 18:54:41
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Skullport was indeed a 2E supplement. I can't say it was one of my favorites.
Oh-oh, what was specifically wrong with it? |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 10 Feb 2009 : 21:39:16
quote:
Originally posted by Herkles
I have a question in regards to eilistraee and her followers. How do other elves view those that say they are eilistraeen? would a sun elf trust a drow that claims to be an eilistraeen? what of a moon elf? wild elf? or wood elf? Also how far would this trust extend? trust being, I won't kill you but leave me the hell alone? or trust as they would be freinds?
This clearly calls for an opinion and you have had a few already. Like many answers it will Depend.
My take on the main question the answer that in general even eilistraee Drow are not quick to trust a strange Drow that claims to worship the Dark Maiden. The basic lore indicates that no race in general trust Drow. The surface race elves hold to the lore that all Drow can not be trusted and that they are evil cursed by Corellon (The actual source books do not quite follow this belief, but belief often trumps facts).
The answer of acceptance only becomes because of situation in where some degree of thankfulness or restect does any trust form. To a lessor degree this applies to all first encounters, just everyone knows you can never trust a Drow.
The idea that any Drow was accepted in peace on Evermeet clearly was a sign of some, however limited, acceptance that a good Drow could even exist. The final decsion however was not to take a chance that only good Drow would be the ones coming to the retreat so the Drow nan remained.
Most will attack or run from a Drow on sight and ask questions later and perhaps say "Opps". The only otherthing the Lay of the dance has working for her is that there are some fair rlves that are Priestesses, but the battle in the end still comes down to how can you ever trust a Drow. An uphill battle that some still continue to try to overcome. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 10 Feb 2009 : 18:02:18
quote:
Originally posted by Ardashir
Oh yes, just where have we been given information about the Dark Lady's greatest temple, the Promenade?
I remember one issue of Dragon had an article on it, and I believe there was a sourcebook covering Skullport for 2nd Ed?
The article was "If You Need Help -- Ask the Drow!". It was in Dragon 176, and was written by Ed and Steven Schend.
Skullport was indeed a 2E supplement. I can't say it was one of my favorites. |
| Ardashir |
Posted - 10 Feb 2009 : 16:56:08
Oh yes, just where have we been given information about the Dark Lady's greatest temple, the Promenade?
I remember one issue of Dragon had an article on it, and I believe there was a sourcebook covering Skullport for 2nd Ed? |
| Ardashir |
Posted - 09 Feb 2009 : 22:23:44
quote:
Originally posted by Ergdusch
The temple in the Velarswood near Harrowdale is mentioned in Extinction, book IV of the 'War of the Spider Queen' series. There is a the map in the book with further details.
In the book rituals, worship methods and the likes are discribes as well, althoigh I don't recall any worshipers of Selune.
The Selunite lycanthropes are mentioned in Demihuman Deities. |
| ranger_of_the_unicorn_run |
Posted - 09 Feb 2009 : 19:28:30
quote:
Originally posted by Ergdusch
I'd sacond Kuje's opinion.
Based on the hundreds of years of harted between the subraces most surface elves would not give a drow enough time to explain her ways, believes and/or faith. Therefore, it is highly likely that the drow would be dead before ever explaining that he was 'one of the few good ones'.
Even if an encounter overcomes this initial reaction, the Eilistraee worshiping drow would be confronted (with the drawn sword) to explain himself and scanned with any divination magic available (detect evil, zone of truth ect.). He'd be judged by his words & deeds ever after, but tolerated in an adventure group or traveling company active on main Faerun, and watched very closely. He would never under any circumstances be allowed to Evermeet, though.
The tolerance to drow would differ also from subrace to subrace. I imagine a sun elf being rather unmovable in his position, nit asking any questions, killing him on plain site.
The same more or less applies to wood and wild elves. They are very traditional and in their long memories cannot forget that it were the drow that set the cause for leaving their home of Cormanthor. However, I could see a wild elf community spying on a single drow for a short amount of time to see what he is up to and judge him very thoroughly. He'd be killed if there was even the slighted doubt about his good intentions (which is rather likely).
Moon elves are the most tolerant subrace. As such I could see them tolerating a drow in their company.
This might also differ for certain areas where 'renegate drow' would be expected to show up.
That's at least my take on this matter.
I think it also depends on whether the particular elf/community has been affected by drow in the past. In RAS's books, Ellifain (a moon elf) was scarred from her encounter with drow, particularly with her misunderstanding of Drizzt, so obviously she didn't look kindly on him. |
| Ergdusch |
Posted - 09 Feb 2009 : 19:07:48
I'd second Kuje's opinion.
Based on the hundreds of years of harted between the subraces most surface elves would not give a drow enough time to explain her ways, believes and/or faith. Therefore, it is highly likely that the drow would be dead before ever explaining that he was 'one of the few good ones'.
Even if an encounter overcomes this initial reaction, the Eilistraee worshiping drow would be confronted (with the drawn sword) to explain himself and scanned with any divination magic available (detect evil, zone of truth ect.). He'd be judged by his words & deeds ever after, but tolerated in an adventure group or traveling company active on main Faerun, and watched very closely. He would never under any circumstances be allowed to Evermeet, though.
The tolerance to drow would differ also from subrace to subrace. I imagine a sun elf being rather unmovable in his position, nit asking any questions, killing him on plain site.
The same more or less applies to wood and wild elves. They are very traditional and in their long memories cannot forget that it were the drow that set the cause for leaving their home of Cormanthor. However, I could see a wild elf community spying on a single drow for a short amount of time to see what he is up to and judge him very thoroughly. He'd be killed if there was even the slighted doubt about his good intentions (which is rather likely).
Moon elves are the most tolerant subrace. As such I could see them tolerating a drow in their company.
This might also differ for certain areas where 'renegate drow' would be expected to show up.
That's at least my take on this matter. |
| Kuje |
Posted - 09 Feb 2009 : 17:48:12
Based on the answer the dark elven envoy received when she went to Evermeet, which was no dark elves will be allowed on the isle, I'd say the surface elves would still hate and or distrust most dark elven followers of Eilistraee. Mostly due to the battles that have taken place between surface and underdark elves.
But, this is hard to answer because some places might allow dark elves. But in the old Realms, dark elves were not tolerated on the surface, at least not that often.
Of course, I dimly recall that in 4e dark elves are more on the surface and they are at least tolerated in some cities that have elven populations. If I'm wrong, someone will correct me. :)
quote:
Originally posted by Herkles
I have a question in regards to eilistraee and her followers. How do other elves view those that say they are eilistraeen? would a sun elf trust a drow that claims to be an eilistraeen? what of a moon elf? wild elf? or wood elf? Also how far would this trust extend? trust being, I won't kill you but leave me the hell alone? or trust as they would be freinds?
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| Herkles |
Posted - 09 Feb 2009 : 17:19:07
I have a question in regards to eilistraee and her followers. How do other elves view those that say they are eilistraeen? would a sun elf trust a drow that claims to be an eilistraeen? what of a moon elf? wild elf? or wood elf? Also how far would this trust extend? trust being, I won't kill you but leave me the hell alone? or trust as they would be freinds? |
| Ergdusch |
Posted - 09 Feb 2009 : 16:31:25
BTW, I just recall that I once did a Planetouched race esp. for the Dancing Lady - the Hini'hinue. You can find it here.
Furthermore, I recommand the article 'Sin Eaters of Eilistraee' by James Jacobs in Dragon issue #315, detailing the 'Silverhair Knight', a PrC for worshipers of the Dark Maiden (which I worked with for my Planetouched race).
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| Ergdusch |
Posted - 09 Feb 2009 : 16:23:39
The temple in the Velarswood near Harrowdale is mentioned in Extinction, book IV of the 'War of the Spider Queen' series. There is a the map in the book with further details.
In the book rituals, worship methods and the likes are discribes as well, althoigh I don't recall any worshipers of Selune.
Anyhow, it's well worth the look. |
| Ardashir |
Posted - 09 Feb 2009 : 15:55:13
Thanks to all of you for your help. |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 07 Feb 2009 : 00:47:06
There also is the Daek Maiden's potral that indicates a temple.
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=fr/pg20021106a
Not much detail, however most temples are not well discussed.
BTW Eilstraee lives on in all that follow her. *wink* |
| rjfras |
Posted - 07 Feb 2009 : 00:10:22
A good place to find info on Eilistraee that has been gathered in one place is the site Chosen of Eilistraee at http://www.eilistraee.com/chosen/dogma.php and also has a links section to some other Eilistraee info sites... |
| The Sage |
Posted - 06 Feb 2009 : 22:43:42
Ed's also managed to share quite a bit of info on Eilistraee, her clergy, and her role among the drow pantheon, here at Candlekeep. See the "So Saith Ed" archives. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 06 Feb 2009 : 20:49:55
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Demihuman Deities, the Seven Sisters sourcebook and novel, uh, think there might be some in the Lady Pen trilogy of novels but I refuse to read them. :)
Yes, there is definitely information on Eilistraee's faith in the Lady Penitent trilogy. |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 06 Feb 2009 : 19:11:48
-See Elves of Faerūn. Specific locales get done at a much slower pace than other entries, so not too many of those, yet. |
| Kuje |
Posted - 06 Feb 2009 : 19:02:35
Demihuman Deities, the Seven Sisters sourcebook and novel, uh, think there might be some in the Lady Pen trilogy of novels but I refuse to read them. :) Drow of the Underdark but a lot of that info was expanded on in Demi Deities. |
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