| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Malanthius |
Posted - 14 Jul 2003 : 03:59:25
Greetings,
This is probably going to sound a little extreme but I've finally decided on the major villian for my next campaign and i'm just a little uncertain how to bring him back from the dead.
You may have heard of him before, Karsus the Great, Karsus the Mad.
The story i'm putting together is somehow he comes back, realizes what happened to him, and decides to try to steal the goddess of magick's powers again by going through the chosen first.
Any helpful hints on ressurecting him, and does anybody have any solid info on what actually happened to his body?
Thanks in advance,
Mal |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 10 Feb 2020 : 20:48:55
Great Reader Mage,
Did you ever end up figuring out the wording of that 'Wish' spell? ;)
I'd love to hear it!
Best regards,
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
If a petrified creature is damaged while petrified and then restored to flesh, it would incur whatever damage. Cut of a head = Dead. Cut out a heart = dead, etc. etc. One could argue that the being could be restored, whole, by a properly worded wish spell.
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| cpthero2 |
Posted - 27 Sep 2018 : 20:17:22
Master Mage,
Very nice consideration. Though I agree, for the entertainment value alone, I reference the pondering of Vangerdahast from "Cormyr: A Novel":
quote:
“As Vangerdahast watched Otka lay out her legions of ants---he had deduced her scale now, one ant per cohort---he thought about using the wish again. If Nalavara had been moved to Cormyr be being wished out of existence, perhaps Vangerdahast could do the same thing by wishing himself out of existence. He could tell by the way Rowen’s pearly eyes were constantly drawn to the ring that it still had plenty of magic in it, and it seemed reasonable to hope that if a thing worked once, it would work again.
The trouble was that wishes were reasonable things. They were entirely reasonable, and it was that which made them entirely unpredictable. For the multiverse to stay in balance, there had to be a certain equilibrium to wishes, so that even as the thing the wisher asked was granted, something he did not wish also came to be. If people could simply go around wishing things without consequences, the multiverse would quickly grow unstable and spin out of control. By wishing Nalvara out of existence, he had merely taken her out of his immediate existence and placed her in another where he wanted her even less, and the multiverse had stayed in balance.
To wish himself back to Cormyr, he would have to wish for what he did not desire and hope that what he actually desired came about in reaction. He would have to wish himself out of existence but choose his words carefully enough to be certain that he came back into existence in Cormyr. That would, of course, trigger another reaction, since what he really desired could not possibly be as important as what he truly desired but did not wish. . . Vangerdahast felt as though he were standing between two mirrors of trying to find the last reflection when there simply was not one. No matter how carefully he worded the wish, he would be playing knucklebones with his own life. Even if he did find a way to cheat the spell, he would be gambling with the multiverse itself. That he could not do, even to save Cormyr.
Otka made her final assignments and turned to address her generals, reminding them of how much they owed Nalvara for bringing them the gift of iron and civilization, and that all the Giver had ever asked of them was that one day they would go stop the depredations of the human beings.”
Greatly appreciated post, Master Mage.
Best regards,
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
If a petrified creature is damaged while petrified and then restored to flesh, it would incur whatever damage. Cut of a head = Dead. Cut out a heart = dead, etc. etc. One could argue that the being could be restored, whole, by a properly worded wish spell.
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| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 27 Sep 2018 : 18:44:54
If a petrified creature is damaged while petrified and then restored to flesh, it would incur whatever damage. Cut of a head = Dead. Cut out a heart = dead, etc. etc. One could argue that the being could be restored, whole, by a properly worded wish spell. |
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 27 Sep 2018 : 16:15:40
Learned Scribe Malanthius,
I would consider this in a roundabout way, from the angle of process involved in death, and what happens at that moment of death. As you posted a bit later down below, it is known that Karsus died, fell to Toril in petrified form, and you can summon him up in the vestige of boulder now. (Lords of Darkness, p81) Since we know that Jergal had already left his job and Myrkul was the god of dead when Karsus died (Lost Empires of Faerun, p43), we can reasonably surmise that Myrkul would want a death for Karsus. Not out of compassion of course, but because the Lord of the Dead's "...hand is everywhere - there is no door I cannot pass, nor guardian who can withstand me." He clearly means to not be denied. I could see getting a Most Holy Death to break the magic containing Karsus, bringing him back to life, thus ensuring that death's sweet embrace will most assuredly come to him in the future, at some point.
Best regards,
quote:
Originally posted by Malanthius
Greetings,
This is probably going to sound a little extreme but I've finally decided on the major villian for my next campaign and i'm just a little uncertain how to bring him back from the dead.
You may have heard of him before, Karsus the Great, Karsus the Mad.
The story i'm putting together is somehow he comes back, realizes what happened to him, and decides to try to steal the goddess of magick's powers again by going through the chosen first.
Any helpful hints on ressurecting him, and does anybody have any solid info on what actually happened to his body?
Thanks in advance,
Mal
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| The Sage |
Posted - 17 Jul 2003 : 03:27:50
Really?. I can manage both masterfully...at least most of the time  .
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| Bookwyrm |
Posted - 17 Jul 2003 : 03:07:46
Ah, good. Visualizing the complexities of space-time physics is one thing, webmastering is another kettle of fish entirely . . . .   |
| The Sage |
Posted - 17 Jul 2003 : 02:50:36
Bookwyrm, you wouldn't have to do anything except enter the url's into places that I will mark out for you. That is it.
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| Bookwyrm |
Posted - 16 Jul 2003 : 18:41:49
Here're the stats for the Flesh to Stone spell.
Flesh to Stone
Transmutation
Level: Sor/Wiz 6
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Target: One creature
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates
Spell Resistance: Yes
The subject and all possessions it carries turn into a mindless, inert statue. If the statue resulting from this spell is broken or damaged, the being (if ever returned to its original state) has similar damage or deformities. The creature is not dead (its soul doesn’t pass on), but it does not seem to be alive either (when viewed with spells such as deathwatch). Only creatures made of flesh are affected by this spell.
Material Components: Lime, water, and earth. |
| Bookwyrm |
Posted - 16 Jul 2003 : 18:35:59
Sure, Sage, I guess. I still wouldn't know what to do with it after I got it, but I suppose I can always beg for help. |
| Mythander |
Posted - 16 Jul 2003 : 17:50:19
quote:
Originally posted by Sage of Perth
There is no such existing time limit. Only the appropriate reverse magics can undo the permanent nature of a Flesh to Stone spell.
I am without my tomes today. I wonder if there is a size limit to that spell? Since his body is the size of a mountain range. Also, his heart was taken from the body. I'm not sure if that would cause an issue. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 16 Jul 2003 : 08:01:07
If you want Bookwyrm, when it is done, I can use the ethereal mail system to deliver to you the skeleton of the page in HTML format. But I will construct it in such a way so that all you have to do is enter the appropriate links (bookmarks) in the specific url tags, and the page then creates itself after you load it through whatever browser you are using, Netscape Navigator, or Internet Explorer, or whatever.
Just let me know.
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| The Sage |
Posted - 16 Jul 2003 : 07:57:58
I have been slowly working on such a page for incorporation into my new website since the other web page has now completely collapsed. I have so many bookmarks for just about everything. I really want to categorise them, so the ineffective system I am using now can be deleted. However free time has been a very rare quantity these past few days.
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| Bookwyrm |
Posted - 16 Jul 2003 : 03:32:01
My professor (the one whose site you have bookmarked) never uses bookmarks. Instead, he uses that very page to go places that interest him. It's basically a Favorites list that can be accessed at work, at home, or wherever he is. No need to update several different collections everytime he adds a new one.
I'd do it myself, but I have trouble working these things. ::pokes at keyboard:: You'd think a dragon could learn a thing like simple webpage constuction easily . . . .  However, you should have no problem. Computers are your day job, after all. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 16 Jul 2003 : 02:44:07
Although I would advise against assigning a Divine Rank to Karsus, there are some interesting 3e stats floating around somewhere in the internet as part of a 3e Netheril campaign a group in England had run a year ago, the details an exact model to this idea. They had made Karsus into a god from a pre-existing alternate Netheril campaign they had run.
They had made available their stats and campaign logs on the internet for people to see. I can't remember the url, and since I am at the library, I don't have access to my bookmarks. I'll see about posting the url here when I get home after my exam the morning.
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| The Sage |
Posted - 16 Jul 2003 : 02:40:31
There is no such existing time limit. Only the appropriate reverse magics can undo the permanent nature of a Flesh to Stone spell.
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| Bookwyrm |
Posted - 16 Jul 2003 : 01:14:20
You know, maybe you can do something like in The Chaos Curse . . . there the Curse transformed the drinker into a preversion of life -- a vampire. Perhaps you could rule that the energies had a similar effect? Like turning him into an uber-lich? |
| Bookwyrm |
Posted - 16 Jul 2003 : 01:09:30
I don't think there's any sort of time limit; the stone ought to be in one piece and all, but that's all I think would matter.
As for divinity . . . um, I'd leave him as a mortal. Or at least someone without divine rank, not even rank zero. |
| Malanthius |
Posted - 15 Jul 2003 : 19:42:00
That was the other thing I was wondering about, you see the story goes that for an instant at least karsus did steal Mystryl's power/godhood and even became omnicient (or at least as all seeing as mystryl was at the time) but mystryl sacrifices herself to undo karsus's spell, witch killed magic for a little bit ( and if you read the arcane age novel there was some kind of inherent power left in karsus but it was fickle somehow and it turned him to stone)so in the process of all of this karsus is petrified and drops with his enclave to the ground in the deep part of where the high forest is now i think.
What is the time limit on how long after someone is turned to stone they can be brought back?
And Do you think Karsus would count as a quasi-deity (referring to the template found in Deities and Demi-gods)? |
| The Sage |
Posted - 15 Jul 2003 : 17:44:44
Which books were they?.
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| Bookwyrm |
Posted - 15 Jul 2003 : 15:10:03
Hmm. Yes. I keep thinking of the first one as Mystara . . . . Not sure why.
Come to think of it, my brother has some Mystara books. A trilogy. I started reading the first one, but I got bored with it. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 15 Jul 2003 : 13:59:46
I think you mean 'Mystryl' Bookwyrm. Mystara is a campaign setting that used to be published by TSR, but was eventually discontinued. A pity though, it was a great setting.
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| Bookwyrm |
Posted - 15 Jul 2003 : 12:00:05
Heh. I like that, Mournblade.
And if we're talking about the same guy, he wasn't a god. He was trying to steal Mystara's power to become one. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 15 Jul 2003 : 10:45:54
If it counts for anything Mourblade, I am only steadying Philosophy part-time. I am also a part-time Computer Programmer. Is that scientific enough for you???  .
I like to think that I occupy a grey area between philosophy and science .
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| Mournblade |
Posted - 15 Jul 2003 : 06:46:45
Heh! PHILOSOPHERS!!!!
I am a scientist, and I have never been more confused than participating in circles composed entirely of philosophers and Theologians. Of course all of those Philosophy majours are doing NOTHING related to their majour, (Except one who works in a coffee shop). I think I might have to stick with the circles of Scientists and Historians.
What skill would the Philosophy majour grant? Knowledge: what? hmmmm....?????
Religious I guess. Maybe we should invent a new skill for philosophers:
Knowledge (knowledge) Because philosophers know lots about thinking and knowledge.
And why is it I have more friends that are philosophers than scientists? Why was I attracted to that crowd. Oh boy... I'm scared...
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| The Sage |
Posted - 15 Jul 2003 : 06:26:00
Anyway I'll have to see about it later. I now have an interesting little textbook here that I am supposed to be reading for an exam, detailing the effects of Humean philosophy on the ontological question.
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| The Sage |
Posted - 15 Jul 2003 : 06:24:53
Mournblade said -
quote:
Can you ressurect a god?
Maybe. I remember reading an interesting 'What-if' scenario in a Planescape accessory a few years back that discussed this very question. I will find some time to check the tome, and see what it says. If I remember correctly also, I think it dealt with the fallen god Aoskar, although it wasn't an adventure.
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| Mournblade |
Posted - 15 Jul 2003 : 04:10:02
I imagine Mystra would just SLip the weave right out from under the person trying to cast that spell. BUT! KARSUS WAS A god! Can you ressurect a god? I don't think so. I think it requires well more than a ressurection spell. I would say, have a CUlt of Karsus arise and have them trying to raise Karsus. I love bringing new deities into the realms because I like the deities to tremble every now and then. I don't think you can ressurect Karsus, I think you need more magic than that.
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| Malanthius |
Posted - 14 Jul 2003 : 18:58:17
As for why i want to do this, i'm kind of looking for an excuse to run an Epic level campaign in the realms.
How the deities would react, they don't realize what's happened at first. Everyone just knows that the ruins in Karse (the city in the "high forsest" right?) have disapeared and the formerly wild magic area is completely dead.
This starts out as something that happens in the background of the campaign and comes to a head over time.
Thinking of starting out with karsus somehow waking up and realizing his heart is missing and going out to find it and what happened after he cast his Karsus' Avatar spell.
The reason i was asking about the spell is he died/was turned to stone? Over 1700 years ago realmstime and was hoping to make his ressurection somehow accidental.
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| The Sage |
Posted - 14 Jul 2003 : 13:14:17
That would probably be a good idea. I'll post more when I get more time.
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| Bookwyrm |
Posted - 14 Jul 2003 : 11:50:41
But why not Shar? She's got the Shadow Weave.
Maybe I just need to look this guy up . . . .  |
