| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Khaelieth |
Posted - 09 Jul 2008 : 08:54:24
Well, how do they reproduce? Do there actually exist male nymphs and dryads? And inbreeding within dryads would be insane, as they can't move too far from their tree... Always got this idea that treants pollinate and dryads reproduce with elves/humans. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Quale |
Posted - 01 Aug 2008 : 13:27:39
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Interesting - I'm using the Deep Ethereal and Spiritworld for my Kara-Tur project, along with the '5th element'.
I'm connecting each of the five creator races to an element -
Sarrukh - Fire (think dinosaurs & volcanoes)
Batarchi - Water (fairly easy connection)
Aeerie - Air (even easier)
Fey (Le'Shay) - Earth (not Spirit - they are connected to nature)
and finally humans = the 5th element, which is a combination of the other four (in balanced harmony), which is why they are considered the 'Race of Destiny'.
Kara-Tur's cosmolgy shoe-horns much better into 4e, strangely enough, then it ever did in 3e or earlier.
In one campaign, I used the ''race of destiny'' theme. The story was that illithids traveled far into the past to prevent humans from achieving kinda ''ubermensch'' state. Players were involved in the Rise of the Gith myths, fall of Penumbra and all. Eventually I got sick with all futuristic and tentacle stuff, all the graft concepts they had come up with ...
imo the elemental worlds were too separated from the world in all official cosmologies. 4E did some progress with Elemental Chaos, but I don't like several aspects of that also.
Our homebrew tried to combine various elemental concepts, from fantasy and mythologies. The idea of having four Astrals (+ other continents/worlds/universes) wasn't suitable for our style of play, cause we play in the other continents and planes as often as in FR. The Rule of Three is applied whenever possible. ''As above, so below'' is interesting considering Prime/planar relations. Numerological concepts are also nice to use. In the end it doesn't really alienate much from canon. Also it unites nearly all seemingly contradictive world creation and race origin myths while keeping PCs aware that they cannot know the real truth.
Considering the Prime, other worlds, Athas, Mystara, Earth and others are there, each having a few unique, little local physical laws, they are just patterns really.
Planes, there's an inifinte number of them, tough Guvners categorize them into twelve (considered a perfect number, except for the heretics who count thirteen) plus the unfathomable Far Realms. Known planes aren't separate, they overlap, border or are coterminous in many realms, some merge like bubbles.
The ''border'' between planes is a plane on its own, Spiritworld. It's is a cosmic skein or grid, with traits much alike to the Astral, like dependable on personal or collective belief, perspective. Its outer reaches are shaped according to the area of the plane it borders. The most obvious example is Faerie, parallel to woodlands and realms inhabited with fey. But normal rules don't apply when it comes to such parts of the Spiritworld, e.g. sometimes the Faerie of Cormanthor can be what is expected, more vivid, enchanted woodland, but it can change into a twilight forest with traits more adequate for Shadowfel than Faerie. Chultans or those initiated into Chultan animistic mysteries would experience Spiritworld differently, involving mazes and mesozoic landscapes. Experiencing Spiritword parallel to Shou Lung would change according to their beliefs. In Osse it would include dreamstuff. Uthgardt Spiritworld would have lots misty bogs, with barrow spirits. Zakharans (tough I changed that continent a lot, mostly undead now, like in Warhammer) have an elemental perspective. Entering urban Spiritworld leads you to Sigil. Etc. The rules are never strict, depends how the PCs are ''tuned in''.
Spiritworld still has astral conduits, where souls of the dead travel, but of course the conduits differ in Shadowfel, Faerie and others. Astral pools in Faerie are like lakes, in Elemental Core they are like vortices. Spiritworld has ''deep'' areas like the Deep Ethereal, that don't border other planes. E.g. Emmantiensiens Nature's Heart. Others like Shaundakul's Shaunidar in Elemental Core (Air) border through the Great Tree's branches. Chauntea's Cradle of Life covers the Faerie of whole Abeir-Toril, but that doesn't mean Auril's Winter Halls don't cover the North, it's a matter of frequency. Ulutiu lives in Dreamscape but he's unaware of his sleep, so he isn't connected. Loviatar and Mielikki are still in Spiritworld of the planet Earth (realm known as Tuonela), but their religion has expanded to other planets. God or demigods are only Prime concepts.
After PCs cross the ''deep'' areas they enter Spiritworlds of other planes. There aren't much rules here but after passing Shar's realm you can end up in Grey Waste (2nd layer, Kyriik, which means ''root'', I used phoenician for 'loths).
Spiritworld can be best understood in an abstract way. From one point of view it is like a tree, its branches leading (or giving birth) to other planes. Deep Faerie is like a trunk. The Tree is rooted in the Ethereal, the elements different densities of ether. Tree's inside is the Elemental Core (pith-earth, xylem-water, phloem-fire, cambium-air plus negative and positive conduits). Tree's outside surface is shaded or lighted. The light comes from the upper reaches, from Noctos, which is the center of Selune's realm. Noctos, whose always different faces lawful folk like archons categorize into phases, Asonja, Ebla, Benase and Erae, reflects the energy of Selera (sun of life, it's avatars are known as Kakatal, Sirrion, Rathanos, Agni or Utu, but he is really Ah Kantenal, the Phoenix, it means ''blood vomit'' in Mayan). But I digress.
Deep Shadow is nothing, the black void, kinda like the Astral. There are black, gray and silvery void. The ninefold serpent is coiled around the Tree and planes, holding them together. It's considered a plane on its own (dragon pride).
The Tree is a sapling emerging from ether. It is the reincarnation of Ladinion (previous, destroyed universe, leshay and the black diamond myth). Some say it's a skeleton, and linnorms ate the corpse. To complement the Rule of Three beside the cosmic serpent and tree there is the cosmic egg (now half), which is Jotunheim, now just a demiplane, as giants have fallen from once greatness. Jotunheim like the Serpent and the Tree has elemental features, tough it's diametrical to the Tree. There are four quasilayers, first one is Vindopp (wind, air is here first produced from the ether, names are made from Giantcraft dictionary), then Blodild (fire) and Isehjerte (ice, water, fits Norse mythology with Muspelheim, Thrymheim etc., but isn't too obvious and all names aren't alike) and at the end of the ''pot'' is Steinnede (the heaviest part, stone, earth, some planars scholars say that Jotunheim is like a pot and the Tree is it's plant). It even fits Tibetan myths, from ether, air is born, from air, fire is born. from fire, water is born, from water, earth is born.
And again to fulfill the Rule of Three, the ninefold dragon plane has a different order (to giants and spirits) of the creation of elements, like in oriental traditions, wood feeds fire, fire creates earth (ash), earth bears metal, metal collects water, water nourishes wood.
Other applications of the Rule, home plane-Spiritworld-other plane, or fey view history of the universe in cycles of ether (potential, idea, dream) – wood (birth of the Tree, elements, life) – void (death, nothing), all these aspects coexist. But I digress.
And for creatures tied to the elements, I pictured it like in the chakra system. Toril:
Root (the base, earth): fey, shaping earth from ether, that's why they are skilled with ley lines (grids of ether like Spiritworld, but on a smaller scale, ''as above so below''), the focal point location is probably Moonshaes
Sacral (water): batrachi, older than lizards, representing the adaptability of water, the location the Fertile Crescent/Black Sea (past)
Navel (fire, life energy): sarrukh, who like to twist life, notice that they have red eyes and start a fight with a fireball, fire is dormant in them, dreams. The location of the chakra, Peaks of Flame.
Heart (air): aeree, chakra taken by the Doomguard of Shar, Heart of Darkness, a hollow void below Anchorome that destroys the planet
Throat (the fifth element, ether/sound): human, focal point is somewhere in Katashaka (birthplace)
Third Eye (Light and Dark): rakshasa, the enemy on the path of destiny, like in that elven prophecy where humans decide at the end. Rakshasas are the masters of light and dark, the illusion, Maya. Once they were guardinals (''raksh'' means ''to guard'' in sanskrt), but they have fallen and assumed mastery over illusion through cannibalism. The focal point is somewhere in the Eastern Realms, don't know, only rakshasas that I remember were in Solon.
Crown (unknown element): race of destiny. Osse would be a nice place for the focal point.
''As above'' outer plane equivalent:
Root (the base, earth): rilmani, representing stability, and status quo of the Balance. Chakra is off course the base of the Spire.
Sacral (water): slaadi, like water with ability to adapt to specific environment or role, chaotic aspect of the Balance, still balanced due to the Spawning Stone (focal point), not like obyriths.
Navel (fire): helions, originally just lawful, later fallen into devils or archons (then some into asuras etc.). Chakra is in Blood Rift, and many fight over the location.
Heart (air): vaati, they balanced obyriths, the focal point is in Aaqa Lu'tiia (rogue layer of Celestia).
Throat (fifth element): kamerel, the focal point is Timaresh.
Third Eye (mirror): nerras, kamerel mirror opposite race, which they have to face
Crown (unknown element): unknown, some speculate that it involves the Lady and dabus. The chakra point is in Sigil.
Similar can be done with giants, dragons, genies, eladrin (tough they cannot be categorized, e.g. eladrin can be bralani firre tulani or ghaele noviere, or any other combination, and can relatively quickly change their race) and fey races (several times for fey).
|
| sfdragon |
Posted - 31 Jul 2008 : 10:35:42
way back when, there was a story in the complete book er what ever to elves, had an interesting tid bit of an elf being turned into a treant.
personally I always looked at the dryads and treants as being able reproduce with each other, trees and all, and how the 4e dryad looks.... well anyway I think it would be best for me to leave that thought unwritten.
to much greek with the dryads and satyrs of previous editions to make much since in my head for me.
the 3.0 nymph, yeah I do recall many people across the net saying they were very displeased with the baywatch girl look. her name escapes me at the moment. |
| Khaelieth |
Posted - 31 Jul 2008 : 10:00:50
Never heard of it, but sounds quite good. |
| Yuen |
Posted - 31 Jul 2008 : 06:42:42
Is it possible that a dryad's tree turns into a treant by natural means? I think such a pair would be quite interesting to meet. |
| Khaelieth |
Posted - 29 Jul 2008 : 14:12:20
Hehehe... Hard wood dryads...
But hamadryads don't need a tree; at least they didn't in 2nd, I think |
| Markustay |
Posted - 28 Jul 2008 : 20:30:53
Actually, that is just their 'Battle Form' - when not angered, they still appear as luscious lasses. 
I always differentiated the two types as Dryads = Leaf-bearing trees (Hardwoods), and Hamadryads = Evergreens (Softwoods).
So, you'd be more likely to find the 'Hama' variety in the north, and the 'plain vanilla' one in the south. 
But thats just my take on the two - I thought of them in those terms even before I ever played D&D (back when Dinosuars still roamed the Earth). |
| Lirdolin |
Posted - 28 Jul 2008 : 19:03:46
quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
Essentially it is a little tree with "breasts" ...
That's why I intend to add a 'second dryad' to my game, the hamadryad from the old AD&D FR-MC-Appendix, who will actually be a form of Noble Eldarin and all the nice dryads my timelost PCs have met 100 years ago actually were hamadryads.
In this way I won't have to explain to my players that the nice lass they partied with in the woods was turned into a 'little tree with breasts' by the Spellplague...
Lirdolin |
| Markustay |
Posted - 26 Jul 2008 : 22:33:51
Interesting - I'm using the Deep Ethereal and Spiritworld for my Kara-Tur project, along with the '5th element'.
I'm connecting each of the five creator races to an element -
Sarrukh - Fire (think dinosaurs & volcanoes)
Batarchi - Water (fairly easy connection)
Aeerie - Air (even easier)
Fey (Le'Shay) - Earth (not Spirit - they are connected to nature)
and finally humans = the 5th element, which is a combination of the other four (in balanced harmony), which is why they are considered the 'Race of Destiny'.
Kara-Tur's cosmolgy shoe-horns much better into 4e, strangely enough, then it ever did in 3e or earlier. |
| Quale |
Posted - 24 Jul 2008 : 09:40:23
yea that's how I picture it too, in my campaign fey come from the Deep Ethereal, which is in some cultures the fifth, basic element. They originate as spirits of raw possibility, creating demiplanes and similar. My Spiritworld is such a place, a plane parallel to the Prime but also has ''deeps'' leading to the Outer Planes. It consists of Faerie (The Tree, remnant of Ladinion), Shadowfel, Ethereal Grounds, Dreamscape, Astral Conduits, Elemental Core (plus all combinations of all that). Those fey spirits that have taken interest in Elemental Core became elemental spirits, like dharum suhn, or like the Sleeping Ones, ancient elemental race trapped in the Ice. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 23 Jul 2008 : 11:07:13
Thats how I'm picturing it -
Fey can 'evolve' into other lifeforms during their immensly (infinite?) long lives, so I think a noble Fey that has become an Earth Elemental is a good call for Lord Monolith.
Bruce Cordell wrote it, but I think he based it on the stuff about Elemental Monoliths written by Rich Baker in Complete Arcane. Personally, if Lord Monolith was based on that, he should have come up with a different name (or are they ALL called Lord Monolith?)
Anyhow, just an interesting note - this guy appeared in BC's novel well into the 4e development, and I asked RB about this creature (which is a fairly new concept in the Realms) and weather we would see more stuff like this in FR.
I didn't get an answer. Now, he could've just missed the question in the thread, or he could've avoided it (not wanting to give anything away). I personally get the idea that he reads EVERY question, but chooses to answer ones that won't 'get him in trouble'.
So, considering 4e's more 'Elemental bent', and the appearance of that creature (for no real apparent reason) in BC's book (remembering that Bruce Cordell is one of the FRCG authors), I'd be willing to wager that some of this is going to be 'pushed' on the 4e setting.
By thats just a hunch, mind you. |
| Quale |
Posted - 23 Jul 2008 : 08:46:24
isn't Lord Monolith like an aspect or servant of Entemoch/Sunnis, maybe a dharum suhn, they are something between fey and earth elementals ... |
| Markustay |
Posted - 22 Jul 2008 : 17:18:07
quote:
Originally posted by Alaundo
quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
No bashing, but can I just say that I was deeply shocked when seeing the picture of the 4E dryad?
Well met
In what manner, Zanan? I have yet to see the 4e dryad, so am just curious.
You can see one HERE.
They have basically copied Warhammers crazy battle-Dryads. 
Anyhow, I was going to cover part of this topic in an ever-expanding article, but the thing grew in so many directions at once that it is turning into a full-fledged netbook. 
The gist was that while some Fey (Le'Shay) left Toril for the Feywild millenia ago, others decided to stay, and form 'pacts' with the environment, allowing them to draw power from it in a sybiotic relationship.
Fey (Kara-Tur's Spirit-Kami) can mate in all the usual ways (usually sleeping with mortals, and most-often humans), and in many cases this creates 'fey touched' or 'Spirit Folk'. But in certain rare instances the Fey breed true, and the new ones form bonds with the land as well. In time (for these are immortals we are dealing with), there power grows great, and some of the older more power Nature-spirits are associated with Lakes and Mountains. However, most Fey do not have that sort of power, and instead slowly age into new forms - like Treants, or Nature Elementals (like the ones in Rasheman), or Lord Monolith from Darkvision).
Fey are natural shape-shifters (magical, not biological like the Batrachi), and taking on new forms is part of their culture, and with age comes grander, more powerful incarnations.
Just my take, which I figured I'd share since that article will probably just keep growing and never get done.  |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 21 Jul 2008 : 02:43:31
quote:
Originally posted by Alaundo
quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
No bashing, but can I just say that I was deeply shocked when seeing the picture of the 4E dryad?
Well met
In what manner, Zanan? I have yet to see the 4e dryad, so am just curious.
It's true form is no longer that of a scantly-clad woody female. It is now, as Zannan has said, a ferocious-looking tree with breasts (it can still take a form much like it's pre-4E one, though). You can probably find a picture of it easier on the WotC site. |
| Zanan |
Posted - 20 Jul 2008 : 11:25:35
Essentially it is a little tree with "breasts" ... |
| Alaundo |
Posted - 20 Jul 2008 : 11:23:25
quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
No bashing, but can I just say that I was deeply shocked when seeing the picture of the 4E dryad?
Well met
In what manner, Zanan? I have yet to see the 4e dryad, so am just curious. |
| Zanan |
Posted - 20 Jul 2008 : 11:20:17
No bashing, but can I just say that I was deeply shocked when seeing the picture of the 4E dryad? |
| The Sage |
Posted - 19 Jul 2008 : 02:01:45
And now this scroll REALLY has taken a somewhat disgusting turn. Maybe we should all try and get back on topic? |
| The Sage |
Posted - 19 Jul 2008 : 02:00:23
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
There, Sage. Realms-related, though I'm sure you wish it wasn't.
love,
THO
Quite the contrary actually, my Lady. I can't wait to drop this little tidbit into my game the next time my PCs complain about ingesting the "Great Elixir" in any of the Underdark taverns they may frequent.
"Hey, at least it isn't a Calishite vintage."  |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 18 Jul 2008 : 21:01:40
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Right, let's bring this back to the Realms.
In certain Calishite cities (as in our real world, back before rules were brought in to prevent this sort of thing), bird dung was (or is still, by the unscrupulous) stirred into wines to make them "sparkle."
Ed as DM 'showed' us this with a particular PC; right after Torm (the thief of the Knights, not the deity) stole some being-bottled wine from that PC, and swigged it.
There, Sage. Realms-related, though I'm sure you wish it wasn't.
love,
THO
"Ah, an extraordinary vintage. Southern sandy sparrow '44, I believe. Yes, you can just make out a faint undertaste of beetle."
|
| The Hooded One |
Posted - 18 Jul 2008 : 19:50:26
Right, let's bring this back to the Realms.
In certain Calishite cities (as in our real world, back before rules were brought in to prevent this sort of thing), bird dung was (or is still, by the unscrupulous) stirred into wines to make them "sparkle."
Ed as DM 'showed' us this with a particular PC; right after Torm (the thief of the Knights, not the deity) stole some being-bottled wine from that PC, and swigged it.
There, Sage. Realms-related, though I'm sure you wish it wasn't.
love,
THO |
| Kuje |
Posted - 18 Jul 2008 : 17:37:55
quote:
Originally posted by Khaelieth
quote:
Originally posted by capnvan
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I agree. Just think about birds--they'd be peeing on leaves all the time.
An interesting take - I don't think I've ever seen a bird's "pee." But I've sure seen the white stuff on my car, and I don't think it's "pee"!
Birds don't pee, real fact. Standard grade biology, at least not in the common sense.=)
Sorry Sage, but I had to answer this.
And Khae, you are wrong. Birds do urinate, it mixes with their feces, so Rino is correct. Even a quick net search confirms this. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 18 Jul 2008 : 13:35:29
This scroll's kind of taken a disturbing turn. Let's try to get back on topic, eh? |
| Khaelieth |
Posted - 18 Jul 2008 : 08:59:06
quote:
Originally posted by capnvan
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I agree. Just think about birds--they'd be peeing on leaves all the time.
An interesting take - I don't think I've ever seen a bird's "pee." But I've sure seen the white stuff on my car, and I don't think it's "pee"!
Birds don't pee, real fact. Standard grade biology, at least not in the common sense.=) |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 18 Jul 2008 : 03:25:11
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by capnvan
An interesting take - I don't think I've ever seen a bird's "pee." But I've sure seen the white stuff on my car, and I don't think it's "pee"!
It is, actually.
Oh, and don't forget all the insects living in the trees too.
Don't forget squirrels, chipmunks, and/or kercpa! |
| Talwyn |
Posted - 18 Jul 2008 : 03:17:22
I think a dryand or nymph wouldn't be too happy if some burley fighter decided to relieve himself against her tree but then he could [rightly] argue, "hey, the animals do it as well so what's your beef nature chick? I'm just answering THE CALL OF NATURE!"
as she starts to summon insects to infest his underpants |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 18 Jul 2008 : 02:27:22
quote:
Originally posted by capnvan
An interesting take - I don't think I've ever seen a bird's "pee." But I've sure seen the white stuff on my car, and I don't think it's "pee"!
It is, actually.
Oh, and don't forget all the insects living in the trees too. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 17 Jul 2008 : 19:10:09
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Talwyn
I've always wondered how treants, nymphs and dryads would react to dogs peeing on their trees?
Well, it is natural.... Treants prolly wouldn't care; it's too fleeting for them. Nymphs and dryads would prolly just shoo the dog off to water a different tree.
I agree. Just think about birds--they'd be peeing on leaves all the time. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 17 Jul 2008 : 15:42:15
quote:
Originally posted by Talwyn
I've always wondered how treants, nymphs and dryads would react to dogs peeing on their trees?
Well, it is natural.... Treants prolly wouldn't care; it's too fleeting for them. Nymphs and dryads would prolly just shoo the dog off to water a different tree. |
| Khaelieth |
Posted - 17 Jul 2008 : 11:34:53
Cheers, Althen! |
| Talwyn |
Posted - 17 Jul 2008 : 08:50:21
I've always wondered how treants, nymphs and dryads would react to dogs peeing on their trees? |
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