| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Wood Elf Ranger |
Posted - 08 Apr 2004 : 06:11:25
Imagine that your on a team to create a Forgotten Realms massive multiplayer game, what would you want to have in it? This could be anything technical to purely asthetic. I have a ton of ideas and want to hear yours too!
First thing I would like to see is turn-based encounters. Heres how this would work in an online game... you form a party and have an encounter of course, but when the encounter starts its in a defined area with only the participants so theres no outside influence from other players not in your party. The defined space would have obsticles (for hiding behind or other purposes) and 3D square units (for flying creatures) and offer "surprise rounds" depending on how the encounter occured. Each person would have a 1 minute (perhaps 30 secs?) time limit to complete their turn. And of course offer super realistic animations so that you don't mind waiting for your turn while watching the hairs of that ugly bugbear get scorched by your wizards fireball :p This would really make the game more strategic instead of just a hack-n-slash.
If anyone has questions I can explain in more detail but I think I've rambled enough for now :p I have a ton more ideas but I want to hear some of yours too! :) |
| 10 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Chyron |
Posted - 09 Jun 2004 : 05:30:35
These are all good points.
Personally I hated the fact that the Jedi class was locked. SO Much so that I decided to not even play SW galaxies. So if there was a game that similarly locked out the "hero" classes I would not be likely to purchase that either. Not because I am a powergamer, but simply because I cannot play 24/7. I would still be a commoner long after the 24/7 powergamers and guilds opened up all their hero slots. All MMORP systems cater to those who "play hard and play often” I never played PnP like that and I certainly can’t spend that much time online.
To me the ideal future is similar to NWN, i.e. a toolset that allows for DMs to use the PC to run their games. The main fault of NWN is that it is limited in many ways and does not reflect 3E rules 100%accurately (still it is the best system out there).
Sure nothing beats the imagination, but when your gaming group (or you yourself) moves away, the PC becomes a good substitute for the tabletop and you can potentialy bring in new memebers from anywhere in the world to join you. But what is needed is a 'solid' core system that can be easily modified on the fly by the DM. And plenty of variety in models (both character and terrain).
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| Capn Charlie |
Posted - 08 Jun 2004 : 09:28:01
I just don't expect anything truly great from any video game. They are just not dynamic enough.
Really, I grew out of simplistic crap like chess and checkers when I was 12, if I want strategy I go with something more complex. RTS is good, tabletop minis are better. I love my crpgs, but they pale in comparison to even a bad pnp game.
No amount of in game rp can make up for the truly dynamic ability of game that exists in the human mind. I don't care how many times I type *uses sovereign glue to glue Fred's feet to the ground*, he doesn't stick to the ground. One of the things that has drawn players to my game like flys to honey over the years is telling them that in dnd "you say it, you do it". They actually get to do whatever they want.
Once they get over their usually innapropriate actions of getting used to the game, they are hooked for life. Wanna go 'a whorin'? Done. Get drunk as a direwereskunk? Done. Anything else? Then they get it. They can actually interact with NPCs in a fashion only limited by outr imaginations rather than pregenreated responses.
I don't care hopw much they develop crpgs, within any of our lifetimes pencil and paper will always be king of "true gaming". Give any snot nosed kid that loves any mmorpg one session of dnd, and once you get over the adolescent impulses they are hooked like you gace em a crack spiked sprite. |
| Hymn |
Posted - 08 Jun 2004 : 09:13:34
Hmm, good points there Capn Charlie. As a side note I just remembered, the main reason why I don't play Mmorpgs, is that your co-players dosn't bother to RP their characters as well, adding to the downspiral of it all for me. |
| Capn Charlie |
Posted - 08 Jun 2004 : 08:36:46
Quite frankly put, I don't play online games for "roleplaying". I really, really don't. I have real rpgs for that.
However, maybe I feel that ay because of the shattering dissapointments I have had from various "r"pgs. The primary thing about a Fr mmorpg would be the ability to construct a variety of characters, and enjoy the progression of dozens of concepts of characters over time. I do not think that any group of programmers could have the automated responses and dialog built into the game to handle my roleplaying style.
I have actually spent the last few month's free time tinkering with ideas for a FR mmorpg, and was going t osit out of this discussion in favor of not putting my ideas "out there" and developing it as a free game. However, I recently found out about the DnD mmorpg, so have seen this as a waste of my time, and scrubbed it from my calendar.
One of the primary ideas was a rotating cast of human ran NPCs. Essentially the management recruits players of the game with "the right stuff" to play the parts of various NPCs in the game. Essentially any given day the automated barkeep that starts and finishes quest/adventure x is a human, thus opening the floor to spontaneous roleplay.
They could be authorized to hand out whatever additional rewards they deemed fit for excellent roleplay on the part of the characters. With several scripts for each npc, it would be possible to keep players at a guessing gasme over which npcs are bots, and which people.
Now, it might be tricky on how to develop the engine to accept typed out responses, I am thinking of having the standard array of responses we might expect in any online game, from a large list altered by race, class, alignment, ability scores, and skills. Players are also encouraged to type out responses, and click on the one closest to what they want to say.
With a rotating cast of human ran npcs, the players could be kept on their toes, never knowing if the response they recieve is a computer generated one, or a guy on the other end.
Lots of glitches and difficulties, but with the right tinkering and an AI that can anticipate a player's style it could be done, perhaps.
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Then there is the biggie: You buy the game once. IT all boils down to selling a service, here.
A comparitively small portion of the revenue from an online game comes from the games we buy in thestore, but the service. Sell the game once, and when it is time for a new expansion, mail it to all members who are subscribed for at least 6 months, been a paying member for at least x time, or somesuch.
OF course if they lose it, they can buy the replacement expansion for a nominal fee. But essentially, I think this could give the game a lot of goodwill from the players.
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I also have been tinkering around with mechanics for the game, and perhaps the method of how to set it up programming wise, but that is mostly currently theory and speculation.
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| Hymn |
Posted - 08 Jun 2004 : 08:00:58
Alltough this is a tricky thing to overcome it would be one way to overcome bad RP from players. Award good RP with XP. This would be really hard to come by and make into an actually working system, frankly I really don't see how.
And as for the ratio of heros / commoners you could have a similar system like SWG as where in the actuall heroe classes are locked, much like the jedi class was in the begining. Alltough I wasn't a to great fan of that.
Besides having subquests there also has to be a realms shaking event, like the Tugian horde, orc gate wars, time of troubles etc, so no matter where you are may it be Moonshae Isles or Haalrua you know of it and feel the chnge around you. |
| mole |
Posted - 08 Jun 2004 : 05:27:08
lol own3d, pwned. goofy. lol. some good ideas though, from what ive read so far. i can only compare this possiblity to swg though. i love the idea and the game but i dont like the way its set up sometimes. a few friends and i sit around talking about the problems in the game. why cant companies ask and really listen to our, the players, ideas? who is going to play it if not us? then listen to what we say. as for prices and the player economy, your exactly right. 8 mil for a sword is insane. the only players to get that are the ones that kill krayt dragons way too easily in swg. then sell the loot for insane prices to buy the insanely priced sword. the makers need to make sure the game is even, that is to say, everything meshes correctly in the game. i dont like going into swg and seeing a swordsman face to face with the strongest creature in the galaxy, and winning, when any of us that are fighting it, get killed in one hit. combat and economy need to be straight before even thinking of a release date. no player in a forgotten realms mmorpg should be able to reach crazy levels either. with swg, so many people are trying to be jedis, noone wants to actually play the game. they will get to jedi status and probably not play much anymore.
roleplaying would be difficult but not impossible in this type of game. would your rping affect the world? would it have any affect on anything other than you and the people your talking to? there should be some types of "jobs", for lack of a better word, in the side your supporting. if your trying to defend the icewind dale region, you might get a "job" as a company commander of barbarians or something. or you even might be part of a fleet defending the sword coast. but, you could roleplay and possibly affect the outcome of that defense.
there also should be some type of thing to stop people from unfair gameplay. once, in swg, i went through a cave fighting all sorts of things. i made it to certain loot containers and got the loot, or whatever was in it, out. finally i got to the end of the cave after all the fighting and found 5 players, all "afk" (away from keyboard), with macros on, looting the two containers. there were no monsters at the very end. i tried to loot, which should have been my right since i fought my way in and hadnt sat there macroing it the whole time, and nothing was there. that turned me off of the game for awhile. things like that ruin the games for me.
there are so many little things in games like this, theyre too numerous to name. but, everything needs to be checked beforehand to make sure there arent too many overpowered players or exploits. no player should be able to obtain god-like status unless they were a huge influence and the techies talked awhile about it, to see if it was a good idea. maybe if they were a great roleplayer, and took part in alot of things to do with the structure of the game, while playing the game, one could make it that high. but only after a whole lot of playing and good playing at that. if were going to pay 15 or even 10 dollars a month to play a game like this, then they should listen to what we say, not just certain players, and take those suggestions to heart.
once again, sorry for the swg references. that is the only mmorpg ive had the chance to experience. also, sorry for the bad grammar.  |
| Chyron |
Posted - 19 May 2004 : 17:17:55
Having played many of the MMORPGs I have had similar discussion with my gaming friends. My perspective is a bit skewed however. Maybe because I am old enough to remember the D&D white box set and have to work a FT job so I can’t be online 24/7
To me MMORPGs don’t fill the function of a role-playing game. For all its social aspects it’s not role-playing or at least it does not cater to those who attempt to use them for role-playing. They cater to the Doom, Quake and Diablo generation. Now don’t get me wrong, they can be fun. I have spent (wasted) hours (into days into weeks, into months…) of my life playing them. But I cannot conceive of a system that would do the Forgotten Realms justice.
Online games provide instant gratification and a combat is over in literally seconds
D&D (i.e FR) takes time, it is tactical..a few rounds can at times take up to half an hour to play out.
No server, no matter how well staffed, can please everyone all the time. Everquest arguably has the best staffing of all the games, but I never once was able to get involved in any of the main storyline quests / events because I was not part of a big guild.
For every game I signed up for that SWORE it would use name filters and not allow names that did not fit with the Genre of the game, I still constantly saw characters with names like “Gotmilk” and “Dudelooks Likealady” (no joke).
Even in smaller MM servers such as those run using NWN, the feel is just not there. Not like when you have a DM running a personal game for you.
It’s a different dynamic altogether. Even though hundreds of thousands of us play FR, we are not playing together. That is …. I am not going on the Quest of the Spider Queen only to hear others shouting how they already did that yesterday and how the “totally 0wn3d” her. Nor do I have to wait for someone else who is camping the spider queen to leave, simply so that I can camp her.
Which brings us to the point of most online games. LEVELING as fast as possible and acquiring “l33t” gear. The online MMORP game is the powergamers wet dream, because they are all ultimately based in powergaming. They support it and I have not seen any attempt at a system to do otherwise.
I know that SWG and a few other recent games have supported players being merchants and traders etc….but face it. Most people log on to be heroes. Back in the old 1E (or maybe it was 2E) DMG there was a section about Heroes (ie. PCs with classes and levels) and the general population. The ratio was like 1% - 5% . But in an online game it is 100% which again feels less like D&D. As anyone familiar with Superman will know, it is like going to Bizzaro world where everyone is a Superhero.
I am not sure how to counter this exactly but I feel that limiting player numbers is one key. Of course the downside to that is that it is cost prohibitive. They tried this on EQ with a more expensive server, but I think it bombed.
Dont get me wrong, I am not bashing your idea Wood Elf Ranger. I personlaly prefer turn based games for D&D and wish they would get out of the real time mode that all the current D&D video games are focused on. But I just don't think that a MMORPG would do the Realms justice at all.
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| Kaervok |
Posted - 18 May 2004 : 19:59:47
Sounds really cool. I like. Although I don't know if I can agree with exaclty turn based figthing. For online play, don't you think thats a bit complicated? The as you would say hacknslash style seems more appropriate, although it would'nt be like what your saying. It could be like realistic so you have to actually run around and dodge the monsters hits and stuff, based on your dexterity per se, thats how much faster you could avoid it. The more intelligence, the more spells, (duh) and so on. I think that style would work more. I definitly agree that it needs to be in Faerun. It's expansive and it would just be epic feeling to go across it and encounter things. ^.^ |
| Wood Elf Ranger |
Posted - 08 Apr 2004 : 14:51:06
quote:
Originally posted by Icewolf
Lots of things to do. Lots and LOTS to do. The fallacy I've experienced the most was running out of things to do. I was reduced to repeating everything to get any advancement, which led quickly to boredom. In AC2, it was redoing quests. And redoing quests. And redo-- You get the point. In SWG, I eventually just went into the deserts of Tattooine to commit critter genocide. Entire nations of dewbacks and such were destroyed by my lightning cannon (Yes, I was a bounty hunter.)
I heartily agree. This is why the game would take place in the Forgotten Realms. Do you know of a more diverse setting? The FR has limitless opportunities, that is of course if they can cram every single creature, city, dungeon, and everything else thats been packed into the Realms into the game :)
quote:
Edit: And, as an afterthought: NO PLAYER RUN ECONOMY. No economy can function effeciently when run by 9 year old with mommy and daddy's credit card. Seriously, who would pay 8 million credits for a sword?
Haha that is soo right and I completely agree prices should stay defined as they are in Fr source books only changed by your appraise skill or perhaps certain diplomacy checks ;)
Some great ideas I really wish I had the technical skill so I could make this game myself :p |
| Icewolf |
Posted - 08 Apr 2004 : 06:27:12
Lots of things to do. Lots and LOTS to do. The fallacy I've experienced the most was running out of things to do. I was reduced to repeating everything to get any advancement, which led quickly to boredom. In AC2, it was redoing quests. And redoing quests. And redo-- You get the point. In SWG, I eventually just went into the deserts of Tattooine to commit critter genocide. Entire nations of dewbacks and such were destroyed by my lightning cannon (Yes, I was a bounty hunter.)
Anyway, back to the topic. The top thing I would want is a fluid advancement system. I am fully aware that there is only a certain amount of things they can put into the game at a time, but make it varied, so that you don't have to do the same thing thousands of times to advance before they publish more.
There should be an XP bonus on Roleplaying correctly, such as a chaotic good person should not bully someone into giving them more money for helping them. If they refuse the money, or even accept the lowest amount, they should get a slight boost to XP gained.
Edit: And, as an afterthought: NO PLAYER RUN ECONOMY. No economy can function effeciently when run by 9 year old with mommy and daddy's credit card. Seriously, who would pay 8 million credits for a sword?
If nothing else, create a vendor who could be negotiated with, and sell it to them. Players who wish to purchase from said vendor could haggle down the price, etc. (I know its difficult to program, but it would make the economy more stable in the long run.) |
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