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[quote][i]Originally posted by MuadDib[/i]
[br]I was going to post this in the relevant thread...but I can't find it, bygones.

As some of you may or may not know, dungeons and dragons online is being developed by Turbine entertainment. i came across this interview with lead designer Ken Troop.

[quote]Turbine Entertainment responds to burning questions on its PC MMORPG based on the classic licence

12:26 It was always going to happen, and now it has: Dungeons & Dragons has headed into the massively multiplayer online RPG arena.
Entitled (unimaginatively yet informatively) Dungeons & Dragons Online, the game was announced last year at E3 and is in development at Turbine Entertainment, the studio responsible for the Asheron's Call MMORPG series, also currently working on Middle-earth Online.

Considering the pedigree of the pen and paper role-playing game on which it is based, the lure of Dungeons & Dragons Online is all too apparent. However, the game's not expected till late 2005, so anyone champing at the bit for the experience of questing, adventure and camaraderie in a D&D persistent online world has some serious waiting to do.

Still, despite Dungeons & Dragons Online being some 18 months off many of Turbine's designs, plans and features for the game are already in place, as we discovered when we spoke recently to the developer's lead designer Ken Troop.

How did you score the gig to develop Dungeons & Dragons Online?

Troop: Persistence, good looks, and a high diplomacy skill. How can you not get psyched up about Dungeons & Dragons? Turbine went to Atari with a passion for D&D and a resum� chock-full of talent and experience.

It was very exciting for all of us to get a chance to work with Atari, Hasbro, and Wizards of the Coast on a project like this, and especially exciting to have this be Turbine's first self-funded project.

What valuable lessons have you learned from developing and launching Asheron's Call's one and two, and how will/do these influence your work on Dungeons & Dragons Online?

Troop: Too many to list, but I'll pick a couple of the big ones. One lesson that has shaped our dev philosophy extensively is that we need to provide fun that isn't strictly tied to achievement.

Achievement is fun on its own. But if the means of achievement isn't fun, you've only made half a game. A lot of massively multiplayer games have fallen into that trap.

With D&D Online we're trying to make a game that will be fun to play, even if at the end of the night you didn't score a huge pile of loot or a new level. Just playing needs to be worth it.

The second has more to do with our process of making games. We really pushed ourselves to get a playable version of the game much earlier than we have done in the past, and to iterate on it.

The result is that we've been able to see and assess the changes we make, rather than debating about abstractions on sheets of paper. We've got a long way to go, but the game today is already feeling like a game, and we think it's a fun one.

Do you think, considering the D&D pen and paper RPG's pedigree, that many are expecting D&D Online to be the perfect MMORPG? Does that make developing the title a daunting prospect?

Troop: Sure. It's a big licence, and a big responsibility. But, we're all D&D fans here, and we're working closely with Wizards of the Coast to make sure this is an awesome D&D experience.

As for catch-phrases like "the perfect MMORPG," well, let's talk about what we learned from our earlier development experience: MMORPGs are not one-size-fits-all.

We're going to make a fun, action-packed MMP for people who know D&D, who love fast, tactical combat and who appreciate story-driven content. That's not everyone, but for those who I'm talking about, I think it'll be the defining game in the genre.

Dungeons & Dragons, in terms of available source material, is massive. How have you gone about deciding what to include in the MMOPRG?

Troop: Basically, we want to use as much as possible from the core books, especially as it applies to the characters. Classes, feats, skills, spells - we want people to look at their in-game character sheet, and their pen and paper character sheet, and understand what they're doing.

At the same time, it's never been our goal to make a line-by-line recreation of the pen and paper game.

We can't replace the pen and paper game - there's something special about having dice in one hand and cold pizza in the other at 3am with your gaming buddies, which no computer game can replicate.

How closely are you sticking to the current D&D ruleset then? Will D&D Online be as in-depth, or a little more "arcadey"?

Troop: Just as there is a measure of player skill in manipulating distances, initiative orders and combat actions in the pen and paper game, we want player skill to play a big part in Dungeons & Dragons Online.

The depth is still there, and the game mechanics follow the same rules. But our dungeons will require some significant player skill and party tactics to deal with the traps, challenges, and foes.

Can you give us some (or even a rough) idea of what classes and races to expect at launch?

Troop: We haven't fully nailed down the list, but we're planning to include multi-classing and prestige classes. There will probably be a couple less-popular races or classes that won't make the final cut, but the large majority will be there.

Will there be a strong crafting/trade/economic side to the game, or are you avoiding that?

Troop: You can make an entire game out of crafting and trading, but we're not going to make that game. We're making a game about combat, questing, and co-operative adventure. There will be an economic aspect to the game, but our players are adventurers, not merchants and bakers.

What can we expect from the actual gameworld and playing environment - key locations, world size, that sort of thing

Troop: We're going a different direction with our world model. While it's easy enough to create huge tracts of land, empty or repetitive spaces don't add much to the game.

Our content is based around our urban social spaces and our dungeons, with a bit of DM hand-waving to abstract the travel between.

In pen and paper D&D, you can handle a two-week travel time in just a few minutes, with the chance of a random encounter or two. One person on the team once referred to most massively multiplayer games as "jogging simulators." We prefer the pen and paper way of handling distance.

Are Dungeons & Dragons Online players who only play for maybe two hours a day going to feel as much heroes as those who play for considerably longer periods of time in a day?

Troop: Much noise has been made about the mythical "casual massively multiplayer game player". We're thinking of this a bit differently, as dedicated gamers who have a limited amount of time to play.

We want to make a great game for both the hardcore massively multiplayer gamer, and the massively multiplayer gamer with demands on their time from the rest of their life.

Our dungeon adventures range from the epic to the bite-sized, so no matter what your time availability, you can still rock out in the dungeons.

What's the core playing experience you're aiming to offer with Dungeons & Dragons Online?

Troop: D&D quests, characters, and adventures, using the best combat system in any massively multiplayer game, ever.
[/quote]

I believe this may have originated at PCZone

Can't hardly wait!
[/quote]

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T O P I C R E V I E W
MuadDib	Posted - 23 Mar 2004 : 08:00:59 I was going to post this in the relevant thread...but I can't find it, bygones. As some of you may or may not know, dungeons and dragons online is being developed by Turbine entertainment. i came across this interview with lead designer Ken Troop. quote: Turbine Entertainment responds to burning questions on its PC MMORPG based on the classic licence 12:26 It was always going to happen, and now it has: Dungeons & Dragons has headed into the massively multiplayer online RPG arena. Entitled (unimaginatively yet informatively) Dungeons & Dragons Online, the game was announced last year at E3 and is in development at Turbine Entertainment, the studio responsible for the Asheron's Call MMORPG series, also currently working on Middle-earth Online. Considering the pedigree of the pen and paper role-playing game on which it is based, the lure of Dungeons & Dragons Online is all too apparent. However, the game's not expected till late 2005, so anyone champing at the bit for the experience of questing, adventure and camaraderie in a D&D persistent online world has some serious waiting to do. Still, despite Dungeons & Dragons Online being some 18 months off many of Turbine's designs, plans and features for the game are already in place, as we discovered when we spoke recently to the developer's lead designer Ken Troop. How did you score the gig to develop Dungeons & Dragons Online? Troop: Persistence, good looks, and a high diplomacy skill. How can you not get psyched up about Dungeons & Dragons? Turbine went to Atari with a passion for D&D and a resum� chock-full of talent and experience. It was very exciting for all of us to get a chance to work with Atari, Hasbro, and Wizards of the Coast on a project like this, and especially exciting to have this be Turbine's first self-funded project. What valuable lessons have you learned from developing and launching Asheron's Call's one and two, and how will/do these influence your work on Dungeons & Dragons Online? Troop: Too many to list, but I'll pick a couple of the big ones. One lesson that has shaped our dev philosophy extensively is that we need to provide fun that isn't strictly tied to achievement. Achievement is fun on its own. But if the means of achievement isn't fun, you've only made half a game. A lot of massively multiplayer games have fallen into that trap. With D&D Online we're trying to make a game that will be fun to play, even if at the end of the night you didn't score a huge pile of loot or a new level. Just playing needs to be worth it. The second has more to do with our process of making games. We really pushed ourselves to get a playable version of the game much earlier than we have done in the past, and to iterate on it. The result is that we've been able to see and assess the changes we make, rather than debating about abstractions on sheets of paper. We've got a long way to go, but the game today is already feeling like a game, and we think it's a fun one. Do you think, considering the D&D pen and paper RPG's pedigree, that many are expecting D&D Online to be the perfect MMORPG? Does that make developing the title a daunting prospect? Troop: Sure. It's a big licence, and a big responsibility. But, we're all D&D fans here, and we're working closely with Wizards of the Coast to make sure this is an awesome D&D experience. As for catch-phrases like "the perfect MMORPG," well, let's talk about what we learned from our earlier development experience: MMORPGs are not one-size-fits-all. We're going to make a fun, action-packed MMP for people who know D&D, who love fast, tactical combat and who appreciate story-driven content. That's not everyone, but for those who I'm talking about, I think it'll be the defining game in the genre. Dungeons & Dragons, in terms of available source material, is massive. How have you gone about deciding what to include in the MMOPRG? Troop: Basically, we want to use as much as possible from the core books, especially as it applies to the characters. Classes, feats, skills, spells - we want people to look at their in-game character sheet, and their pen and paper character sheet, and understand what they're doing. At the same time, it's never been our goal to make a line-by-line recreation of the pen and paper game. We can't replace the pen and paper game - there's something special about having dice in one hand and cold pizza in the other at 3am with your gaming buddies, which no computer game can replicate. How closely are you sticking to the current D&D ruleset then? Will D&D Online be as in-depth, or a little more "arcadey"? Troop: Just as there is a measure of player skill in manipulating distances, initiative orders and combat actions in the pen and paper game, we want player skill to play a big part in Dungeons & Dragons Online. The depth is still there, and the game mechanics follow the same rules. But our dungeons will require some significant player skill and party tactics to deal with the traps, challenges, and foes. Can you give us some (or even a rough) idea of what classes and races to expect at launch? Troop: We haven't fully nailed down the list, but we're planning to include multi-classing and prestige classes. There will probably be a couple less-popular races or classes that won't make the final cut, but the large majority will be there. Will there be a strong crafting/trade/economic side to the game, or are you avoiding that? Troop: You can make an entire game out of crafting and trading, but we're not going to make that game. We're making a game about combat, questing, and co-operative adventure. There will be an economic aspect to the game, but our players are adventurers, not merchants and bakers. What can we expect from the actual gameworld and playing environment - key locations, world size, that sort of thing Troop: We're going a different direction with our world model. While it's easy enough to create huge tracts of land, empty or repetitive spaces don't add much to the game. Our content is based around our urban social spaces and our dungeons, with a bit of DM hand-waving to abstract the travel between. In pen and paper D&D, you can handle a two-week travel time in just a few minutes, with the chance of a random encounter or two. One person on the team once referred to most massively multiplayer games as "jogging simulators." We prefer the pen and paper way of handling distance. Are Dungeons & Dragons Online players who only play for maybe two hours a day going to feel as much heroes as those who play for considerably longer periods of time in a day? Troop: Much noise has been made about the mythical "casual massively multiplayer game player". We're thinking of this a bit differently, as dedicated gamers who have a limited amount of time to play. We want to make a great game for both the hardcore massively multiplayer gamer, and the massively multiplayer gamer with demands on their time from the rest of their life. Our dungeon adventures range from the epic to the bite-sized, so no matter what your time availability, you can still rock out in the dungeons. What's the core playing experience you're aiming to offer with Dungeons & Dragons Online? Troop: D&D quests, characters, and adventures, using the best combat system in any massively multiplayer game, ever. I believe this may have originated at PCZone Can't hardly wait!
21 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First)
Kaervok	Posted - 29 Mar 2004 : 01:00:18 quote: Originally posted by MuadDib I first got into the realms by buying a copy (yes a copy - shock horror scandal - im from South Africa afterall) of Baldur's Gate II, upon which time my love for the realms began. I then proceeded over the course of the year to buy Baldur's Gate 1, all the various expansions, the Full Icewind Dale Series (imagine my excitement to read RA Salvatore's work on the same area later). I also then bought (all the games since BGII were bought) Pools of Radiance: Ruins of Myth Drannor, Temple of Elemental Evil, and half a dozen other FR titles I cant recall off hand. Including some of the old text based and DOS based games. quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by SiriusBlack quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Arivia 1.Getting people annoyed about the gay marriage ending. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What?! Care to elaborate or too much to get into? A gay marriage? Was a computer game ahead of its time? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I dropped the game before I actually got to it, but retrieving link from Slashdot now...Here it is. Muadib, thats really funny. I got in FR exactly and in the same order that you did. I basically have to buy anything with a FR logo on it, maybe D&D. I really loved after playing the games reading in detail about the cities in Salvators work. I'm really glad we have people and writers like Salvator in our FR community. It really helps boost. Although In my other thread, I talk about the FR direction of gaming. It does'nt look so bright... They are really making bad Gauntlet style games, le sigh. Just thought it was cool though because I can relate to everything you said about FR. Arivia, hahaha. Gay people in games. THats soo funny and I think it's great. I mean woopdie do, a gay marriage. I read the article. I really hope that Bush is not going to pass the law banning gay marriages. THats riduculous. I could go into a whole talk about gay rights because many of my freinds are gay/les. But, this is a video game forum, not a ..other kind.. of forum. But I just think I will play ToEE just to see the marriage. haha
SiriusBlack	Posted - 28 Mar 2004 : 17:30:34 Thanks for the link Arivia.
Arivia	Posted - 28 Mar 2004 : 14:09:01 quote: Originally posted by SiriusBlack quote: Originally posted by Arivia 1.Getting people annoyed about the gay marriage ending. What?! Care to elaborate or too much to get into? A gay marriage? Was a computer game ahead of its time? I dropped the game before I actually got to it, but retrieving link from Slashdot now...Here it is.
MuadDib	Posted - 28 Mar 2004 : 10:06:38 Winterfox, I do have it, but must confess to beign far to busy with FFXI to play it. Given my long reply and your perfect answer, I am forced to install it and try it. I will let you know how it goes and how im enjoying it if you like
EcThelion	Posted - 26 Mar 2004 : 10:14:47 And you can go al lthe way up to level 127! And there is a bug un upper-sigil that will allow you to gain 5000XP as many times as you want in a dialouge! And in the copper cornet you gan get <100g> x <as many times you speak to some chick>!! Ahhh.... abusing is fun...
Winterfox	Posted - 26 Mar 2004 : 02:47:29 Muad'dib, have you tried Planescape: Torment? It's AD&D, Planescape, and easily one of the best RPGs I've ever played. Wonderful writing (and lots of it), story, characters -- non-typical fantasy at its CRPGish best. (Floating skull, walking suit of armor, a succubus priestess -- these and more can join your party.) Interface can be a touch clunky (radial menu, large avatars), but overall it's certainly worth a try. Especially if you're desperate enough to play PoR2 and ToEE. (For starters, PS:T has less bugs, doesn't accidentally format your harddrive, has great voiceacting, great music, etc.)
EcThelion	Posted - 25 Mar 2004 : 14:42:40 Amusingly enough games are allways much more fun the first week (or day, as in most my cases) when you have no idea as to what you are doing. Thus the funnyest part about every D&D game out there is ruined.... ach...
MuadDib	Posted - 25 Mar 2004 : 06:34:43 wipes poopoo off of head Rightyho then. Elain Cunnignham was mentioning it in another thread and I totally agree. FR products are branded and sold so as to be bought for the name of the series, not for the names of the authors. The same applies to me. I first got into the realms by buying a copy (yes a copy - shock horror scandal - im from South Africa afterall) of Baldur's Gate II, upon which time my love for the realms began. I then proceeded over the course of the year to buy Baldur's Gate 1, all the various expansions, the Full Icewind Dale Series (imagine my excitement to read RA Salvatore's work on the same area later). I also then bought (all the games since BGII were bought) Pools of Radiance: Ruins of Myth Drannor, Temple of Elemental Evil, and half a dozen other FR titles I cant recall off hand. Including some of the old text based and DOS based games. It's hard to explain. Pools of Radiance could be the worst bit of software I have ever put on my machine, notwithstanding the fact that it deleted my windows partition. Temple of Elemental Evil was beautiful but as interesting as paint drying. The fact of the matter is though, I cnat play D&D, I couldn't watch the movie without dloading it illegally, I cant read the books, I cant play the game, I cant basically do anything, except play these games, which have a faltering tentative connection to the realms as it is. ToEE is Ravenloft or something I believe. But this is all I have - I've got nothing else. I can't participate in any discussions outside of the PC games arena, cause I basically know nothing, and I can't ask questions to learn cause I have no idea what I dont know. Bit of a muddle im in to be frank. So yeah, this game might be poor (some will argue all MMORPG's have been poor thus far) but think abotu it this way: when 3e and 3.5e came out, I didn't even know what they were, but they were massive events to you loremasters. On the other hand, this game coming out for me, is like 4e rules coming out or something, becuase its the first thing I can play, since BgII that has any hope at all of being even halfway decent as I hoped ToEE would be, but discovered was not. Most likely it will be poor, and I will have nothing to play once more...but while its still in production, I at least have the 'hope' that I will enjoy it. I also heard RAS is working with them, which has never happened before, so im hoping and hoping and sacrificing oreo's on my shrine in the hopes its decent. (end whine) So yeah killjpoys eat my dust...err...pixels...polygons, whatever!
SiriusBlack	Posted - 25 Mar 2004 : 04:37:43 quote: Originally posted by Winterfox and my party never quite understood why it was cruising the temple and killing everything that moved and was hostile. Sounds like the game was made for the consumer interested in crunch and only crunch so help them Vhaeraun.
SiriusBlack	Posted - 25 Mar 2004 : 04:36:10 quote: Originally posted by Arivia 1.Getting people annoyed about the gay marriage ending. What?! Care to elaborate or too much to get into? A gay marriage? Was a computer game ahead of its time?
Winterfox	Posted - 25 Mar 2004 : 02:50:27 Temple of ~~Hackneyed~~ ~~Buggy~~ Elemental Evil is a turn-based strategy (with limited number of units) disguised as an RPG. The adaptation of the original module is absolutely faithful, but Troika forgot that it needs a DM to breathe life into the module. The only thing going for it is the combat and the graphics, but otherwise? Gurrrk. Normal software has bugs; ToEE is a bug. Voiceacting is hit-and-miss (mostly miss), dialogue is awful and bland, quests are of the FedEx variety, and my party never quite understood why it was cruising the temple and killing everything that moved and was hostile. The level cap's also quite ridiculous. I don't mind low-level gaming, but come on. My party hit the level cap not long after exploring the first level of the temple.
Arivia	Posted - 24 Mar 2004 : 22:10:55 No, you really didn't. Even the combat is horrible. The game serves two purposes: 1.Getting people annoyed about the gay marriage ending. And 2. Proving that the D&D combat system does not translate well unaltered to the computer.
SiriusBlack	Posted - 24 Mar 2004 : 15:33:05 quote: Originally posted by Arivia Even Temple of Elemental Evil? I watched someone play that last night for a few minutes. Nice graphics, but, seemed to be lacking anything other than combat. Or did I just not watch enough?
Winterfox	Posted - 24 Mar 2004 : 09:09:57 quote: Originally posted by MuadDib I find myself getting bored with the ones I've played far too quickly, so it works in my favour to have more coming. I think the main difference between this one and the others will be the incorporation of an existing and well defined rule system, since most of the others seem a little hack n' slashy. Believe me, the D&D rules will do jack squat in preventing people from turning the whole thing into a loot-and-level competition. quote: Either way, anything with D&D stamped on the CD is a must have more for me Even Pool of Radiance 2: Ruins of Myth Drannor? You know, the thing that could accidentally format your harddrive when uninstalling?
Arivia	Posted - 24 Mar 2004 : 08:27:16 quote: Originally posted by MuadDib Winterfox is totally correct. There seem to be mroe MMO's than just about anything else these days, and I make a point to play each of them, just to see. I find myself getting bored with the ones I've played far too quickly, so it works in my favour to have more coming. I think the main difference between this one and the others will be the incorporation of an existing and well defined rule system, since most of the others seem a little hack n' slashy. Either way, anything with D&D stamped on the CD is a must have more for me Even Temple of Elemental Evil?
MuadDib	Posted - 24 Mar 2004 : 07:14:55 Winterfox is totally correct. There seem to be mroe MMO's than just about anything else these days, and I make a point to play each of them, just to see. I find myself getting bored with the ones I've played far too quickly, so it works in my favour to have more coming. I think the main difference between this one and the others will be the incorporation of an existing and well defined rule system, since most of the others seem a little hack n' slashy. Either way, anything with D&D stamped on the CD is a must have more for me
SiriusBlack	Posted - 24 Mar 2004 : 05:56:03 quote: Originally posted by Winterfox cackles I could rant about the ineptitude of people I had to group with in my EQ days. Doubt you'd find it particularly entertaining, though. Actually....but it would be off topic and I don't want to get you hit with a warning or even worse, me with a warning. After all, we've been so good here.
Winterfox	Posted - 24 Mar 2004 : 02:48:52 quote: Originally posted by SiriusBlack Don't hold back Winterfox. How do you really feel? cackles I could rant about the ineptitude of people I had to group with in my EQ days. Doubt you'd find it particularly entertaining, though.
Narad Bladesinger	Posted - 23 Mar 2004 : 15:30:47 I share Winterfox's pessimism, but this one sounds more intresting than the others. The first D&D MMORPG right? Just because of that, I'm really looking forward to it. But why, WHY can't it be based on FR as well? Now that would be a must-have!
SiriusBlack	Posted - 23 Mar 2004 : 15:12:45 quote: Originally posted by Winterfox MMORPGs are popping up like avian flu viruses. Now that's a striking line. I'll have to remember that one. quote: Excuse my pessimism, but I'll eat my socks if this doesn't turn out to be yet another level-up mill, loot-hogging fest the likes of EverQuest. Don't hold back Winterfox. How do you really feel?
Winterfox	Posted - 23 Mar 2004 : 10:07:33 MMORPGs are popping up like avian flu viruses. Excuse my pessimism, but I'll eat my socks if this doesn't turn out to be yet another level-up mill, loot-hogging fest the likes of EverQuest.

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