| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| htoburen |
Posted - 09 Aug 2003 : 01:35:44
Hello out there...
I'm playing the old Pool of Radiance that I recently got in a 5 game gold package for the Macintosh.
There are so many bugs, misspellings and problems with the game that I'm very discouraged and disappointed. I'm especially irritated at the fact that it will not properly promote a few of my players who are multi-class. And no-one past the lower limits of their disciplines. This bug was fixed in the succeeding versions, I think. But my magic users can't get above level 6 for example, though they have many points above what's needed.
Needless to say, Atari has no interest in fixing the bugs in the game at this point in time. Does anyone have any suggestions? I have heard that there might be copies of the Linux program around, that could be debugged. Or that someone may already have done this?
Thanks in advance for listening to me rant... ht |
| 27 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| William of Waterdeep |
Posted - 19 Oct 2003 : 03:18:55
It installed great but no mouse.I need to look back at the online manual and write down the keyboard movements. |
| Arivia |
Posted - 19 Oct 2003 : 02:48:31
How's it going? I've had some problems myself with that sort of thing. |
| William of Waterdeep |
Posted - 18 Oct 2003 : 23:05:34
Well,I have this game from the Forgotten Realms Classics so I am going to try my hand at it again.I have WinXP so I will see if I run into any problems. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 15 Oct 2003 : 07:01:48
I may be able to help you here htoburen. I have several copies of the 'Krynn' trilogy of games from SSI, and while both Death Knights of Krynn and Dark Queen of Krynn will always be my favorites, I am willing to give away one of my copies of Death Knights of Krynn, ...if I can find the copies of the games in my archives of course.
I'll let you know more when I have checked.
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| htoburen |
Posted - 15 Oct 2003 : 04:11:56
I gather the difference would be mainly in whether whatever platform you run supports whatever language the game was written in.
For example, I understand that the mapper from dungeoncrafters.com won't run on a mac, because the Mac does not support the basic, Visual basic, I think they said, that it is written in.
I have a question for you.
I may buy a pc game on ebay of death knights of krynn. It didn't have the disks... believe it or not. Is there anyone you know who has the diskettes and could copy them for me or burn up a cd? I do live in the US, so somewhere here would be easier and cheaper to mail.
If I do buy it, then anyone can look at the item and see that I'm telling the straight story...
The auction closes in about 14 hours, si I have to decide soon, but he may relist it for me if I don't get it done sooner...
thanks... htoburen
could you please reply to me directly at htoburen@yahoo.com and put d&d in the subject line?
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| William of Waterdeep |
Posted - 02 Oct 2003 : 01:13:17
quote:
Originally posted by Sage of Perth
It is mostly dependent upon which programming language is used to 'write' the game code and whether or not it is compatible with the OS systems that operate on PC or Mac machines.
It is rather dull to talk about, but if you really are interested I can send you a small .rtf file outlining (in language appropriate for non-programmers) the main points behind coding on the two different machines.
Just let me know...
Please do so,I am interested!!!!! Thanks also,I can't promise that I
will comprehend it 100% but I will try.Just email it to me when you have time and at your convenience.
Willtim@catt.com |
| The Sage |
Posted - 01 Oct 2003 : 05:08:10
It is mostly dependent upon which programming language is used to 'write' the game code and whether or not it is compatible with the OS systems that operate on PC or Mac machines.
It is rather dull to talk about, but if you really are interested I can send you a small .rtf file outlining (in language appropriate for non-programmers) the main points behind coding on the two different machines.
Just let me know...
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| William of Waterdeep |
Posted - 29 Sep 2003 : 03:08:30
Excuse my ignorance but what is the difference in programing for a game on mac and pc? I don't remember having that many problems on
windows.The last time I tried was with the classic version too if that
makes a difference. |
| htoburen |
Posted - 28 Sep 2003 : 00:14:17
I've been thinking about what you said, re having to have Linux version from when the game was programmed. That doesn't seem reasonable to me, as everyone here tells me that any mods to Linux should not casue erors to a program written in an earlier version. ANd apparently the older versions are not available anyway. I do have my pc with linux now, but I still have to take out the ethercard and install a modem. I will be up on linux soon though. Can yo post tht program somehwere I can download it? I not sanguine about getting it in an email, s Yahoo does not like attachments of great length and specificall does not like MIME. I do have hotmail account also.
htoburen@hotmail account, but I don't know anything about how it handles attachments..
ht |
| The Sage |
Posted - 17 Sep 2003 : 06:53:52
When you dual-class a PC, which is normally only a human character, the class abilities and benefits of the previous class cannot be accessed again until the new class you have chosen reaches a level equal to, or greater than your previous class.
If your fighter intends to use armor, once he levels are equal, you may wish to use the rules for this effect that I believe are detailed in one of the Player's Option tomes. I will have a look for you and post a summary of the information here. Although given the sometimes contradictory nature of the AD&D rules system, I think it would be appropriate to either remove the armor before casting a spell, or simply devote your fighter/magic-user to a different tactic before battle begins.
As for the 'version of Linux' issue, from what my fellow Linux users are telling me (I personally don't use it, instead preferring good ol' Unix) any version that is comparable with the year production of the game should be alright. Any newer version may generate software errors, or be unworkable.
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| htoburen |
Posted - 16 Sep 2003 : 22:42:11
I could not get logged into the site for almost a week there. What happened?
I found a way to get around the bug by rebuilding my characters. I saved agame when I had huge reward coming and then rebuilt the characters one by one with it.. (almost 98,000 xp's per trip.) and the rebuilt characters got promoted perfectly. Don't ask me why. I rebuilt my halfling fighter thief and it did it wrong to her again. Just a bug...
I intended to go on and play Curse of the Azure Bonds, and after studying it, I decided that my characters weren't quite right to be optimim there. So I rebuilt them all.
But I have one question for you. In the AD&D format. When you dual class a character... like my character is an 800,00+ fighter. I was trying to figure out what to do with him. Make him a Paladin, or switch to magic user or what. And my Magic user is also plus 800,000. If I made me a magic user, would I eventually be able to start bashing people around again when I got high enough? I started play with him as a magic user, but I loved bashing folks. It's frustrating to hang back and just wait for the hit points to accumulate until I can be a factor in the fights again. (I really get into this..) I thought of geting my magic user up to getting the 5th level spell that is really good and then make him be a Paladin. I did read that he could not cast spell with readied armor, but that is no problem. What they don't make clear is if I could again use armor when I got to the level that is as high as I was as a fighter. Have you ever played this and do you have an opinion? (Curse of the Azure Bonds...) I think the rules are not real clear about this and I'm sort of on hold trying to figure them out. I love the game though.
COme on. someone give me an opinion about what version of Linux is best for game play....
I did mention that I'm playing on a Mac. right?
And I'm still looking for a mapper that will let me convey the different wall textures and different types of doors, archways, passthroughs that are between them. Dungeoncrafters seems to come closest, but they seem to be on hold on their new version..
I assume that I might have to make my own tiles, but there ought to be some way of doing it with some program...
help....
but I do hope to have a pc linux box up soon.... |
| The Sage |
Posted - 14 Sep 2003 : 07:09:39
That's strange. Obviously I have having problems with the planargate.com email service again. I apologise. I'll send the file through my Hotmail.com account, although I am not sure whether it will allow a file of this size. I'll try it anyway.
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| htoburen |
Posted - 13 Sep 2003 : 23:27:53
'm sorry to take so long replying. I could not get the site to cme up for several days and then i was sick at home for a few days. But I'm back now....
I did not yet get your eamil?
I downloaded the games from Neverwinter, but they would not load. I kept getting a message sahing that the program that created them was not there. If that means that I have to buy Neverwinter to do it, I probably will not, as I have a permanent hatred of Atari for all the screwups thay have perpetrated on the gaimng community. They have no ethics at all. They screw you over and then ask very politely if you liked it and would to get done again.
I guess I shouldn't say that here, as they might delte me or sue me, but it's true and I have the documentaion to back it up too.
But anyway, I figured out a way to get around the bug in the game. I was able to recreate my character and advance her artificially. I don't know why it went wrong in the first place, but in the process, I changed her to a half-elf, so she could go a bit higher as I had not been aware of the limitations of halfling lighters when I created her.
But I still do not understand how a Company like SSI could createa game with so many obvious errors.. sell it for many years and then re-issue it and never correct the errors.
I mean they changed teh Cleric from Dristan to Dirten, so they obviouls still had the code around. right? (I think Dristan was a better name for him anyway...
I'm not so enthusiastic abut fixing the errors as I was though. I doubt it will be issued again... and if it sells, why bother.. I mean that's ethics in their world. But I get real tired of "parlaying" with monsters. Just like being in Las Vegas, I guess. At least my dragons don't fly out through the celling!
Well, I give up. I rant too much. I should rail more, I guess. But not rave...
But my idea for a gmae is progressing very nicely. I think it may fly. SO I will be wanting to learn Linux and I can use it to program my own game rather than fix theirs. But I'm still interested in figuring out the code, so if yo cansend the email, that would be nice. i hope to have my Linux bos up in about two weeks. You never have said which version you think would be best for my purposes. One place here has a used 1.1 version of Caldera, with all the manuals. Do you know anything abut that? I read the joy of linux and it seems to say that NEOS is good. I'm awatint your advice with 'bated breath...
Howard t. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 29 Aug 2003 : 13:36:06
I did. It is a great conversion module, although it still has a few bugs. If you get NWN running I would definitely recommend downloading this module for play.
Oh, and I'll send that email tonight .
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| htoburen |
Posted - 28 Aug 2003 : 22:23:42
I'll look forward to getting them. I might even get my comp hooked up to the internet one of these days. Or at least get my Linux box hooked up to it. I'm a bit wary with all the viruses going around these days.
Later... Howard
ps. Hey, I noticed that a few people at the Neverwinter Vaults are apparently reprogramming Pool of Radiance. Have you checked that out? |
| The Sage |
Posted - 28 Aug 2003 : 08:57:05
I did get your emails, but I have just been too busy to respond to any of them until now. Now that I know exactly what the problem is, I'll send you a copy of a file that will be better described in the email I will also be sending you. There is also some useful information in the accompanying README file that should help you with some of the issues regarding this game.
Enjoy...and keep gaming...
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| htoburen |
Posted - 28 Aug 2003 : 01:25:07
I actually do intend to proceed on to the Curse of the Azure Bonds. SO I would like to get my fighter thief properly promoted to 9th level thief and 6th level fighter without the drop in points. That's why I am so irritated at having to accept the bug and get my character knocked down to 35,000 points. But, as you said, I'm sure that any promotions at 160,000 in PR would not have occurred. But I have her saved at the 138,000 point level, so I could resurrect her if I can get it to work right. I thought about just using a Power Tools sector editor. Do you think this would work?
Also, I have the other character who is not being promoted either. I imagine that sooner or later, the same thing will happen to him.
sigh and this game has been out for so long!!!
Bummer... |
| htoburen |
Posted - 28 Aug 2003 : 01:19:38
I'm not using any version. I'm just in the process of getting a pc, in addition to my MAC, and getting a Linux box set up. It probably won't happen for about ten days, but maybe I will get it this weekend.
From what I have been reading about Linux, I'm sort of thinking that the BEOS version is the way to go. Your advice would be greatly appreciated.
I sent you several emails through the site. Did you not get them? I'm quite willing to just talk through the forum if that's the best for you.
Atari has pretty much told me it is not their responsibility to fix the game. As has TRS and MAcsoft. I guess that would cut into the profits. I bought a pc version though and it is just the same. They also told me that it was not supposed to work on POWER PC's. Which, so far as I know are the only MACS that were available when they put the game out. If they get me irritated enough, I just might haul them into court and embarrass them greatly. Washington is a fair use state, so I could force them to fix the darned thing. If I could afford the expense of a lawyer, as I'm sure they'd try to haul it out of the lower court.
But on to other subjects. Does the fact that my saves and my game are on a MAC version affect how your program could extract the code and edit it? I am thinking still that it would be an excellent way to learn and practice Linux and perhaps I could extract the Linux code for "Curse of the Azure Bonds" also. They have the bugs fixed in that. (which was the next game in the series, as I'm sure you know.)
Is there any way for me to transfer my Mac saves to the PC game and continue in that venue? (I'm sure there isn't, but I just thought I'd ask.) I just bought it anyway and it won't arrive for a while.
later.... Howard |
| The Sage |
Posted - 24 Aug 2003 : 10:17:13
What version are you using now?.
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| htoburen |
Posted - 23 Aug 2003 : 22:00:59
I think you might have the Old Pool of Radiance game and the new one confused.??
In any case, my halfling fighte/ thief started out that way and will no doubt finish that way. I don't think that character changing bit was relevant to that game. I finally gave up and promoted her to 9th level thief. Which knocked her back to 35,000 points. Then I took the promotions to fifth and sixth level fighter that had been so long delayed. I understand the rules, honest I do. They say that a halfling cannot go beyond 6th level fighter. But it quit promoting her at 18,000 points... as a fighter. She should have been promoted to fifth level at that point.
But I have another character who is not being promoted either, though not as a fighter, but as a Magic User and as yet it hasn't offered the promotion, though his points are adding up. (Way up...)
You know if you play a game where there are so many misspellings and errors visible right on the surface, that it probably wasn't programmed all that well. Right? I mean when they can't spell simple words, how good can their programming be? I did everything on comps from building H-Bombs to credit systems and I know how programmers minds work.
I recently decided to figure out which gems I was carrying and which jewelry was worth the most and ditch the cheap stuff, as it was adding up in weight. Imagine my surprise when I discovered (by having the same stuff from the same save appraised several times.) that the value of each item was not fixed, but just summoned up by a random number generator each time. Now is that programming badly or what? And that's just an example. I thought it would be fun to figure out the bugs and fix the program (as I thought that others might like to have an unerrored program.), but I'm beginning to think it isn't worth the effort. Learning about bad programming is not all that instructive. I can learn from good programming, right?
And, even funnier... if the character having the stuff appraised was female, it would offer the option of selling or keeping it. But to a male character, it onlyu offered to sell it. No option to keep it. I thought this might be a bug at first, but I have concluded it was intentional. In any case, I thank you for taking the time to think about my little problem. I sort of thought that the game was still being played, as there are several sets of maps and walkthroughs on the internet. (mostly very error filled, carelessly done, not really researched and with really horrible grammar. (I gather the game was first released to Europe though. That might explain the ad grammar a bit.
But the folks at Atari tell me that is not so and they do not support it any longer. I guess as long as they could sell it without fixxing the bugs, why shouldn't they do so?
Howard T.
ps. Actually, if I remember to bring my manual next time, I could point out to you that the comments in the beginning indicate that each character should contine to be promoted and gain benefits, hit points, be able to memorise more spells, etc. So I thought it meant they would be. But I gather that that was not inmplemented in the first game. But it was in the succeeding games.
... so what version of linux do you think I should use? I'm puzzled by the various versions.... |
| Zacas |
Posted - 19 Aug 2003 : 05:35:29
Okay... this is going to be a bit hard to explain... but it is NOT a bug... each of the original SSI DnD:FR games have level-caps (Often shown on the 'advancement' charts most of the games give showing how much exp is needed for each level, the highest level it shows is the max level you can achieve in that game... any excess can be used if you transfer your character to the next game in the series... Pools of Darkness is the exception to this as it tells you each level after 20 requires a set amount of exp above the previous level) based on a combination of character class and character race.
Okay... now to further go into it... for Pool of Radiance, based on the charts it gives... the DEFAULT level-caps are as follows. Clerics level 6 (27501-55000 exp), Fighters level 8 (125001-250000 exp), Magic-Users level 6 (40001-60000), and Thieves level 9 (110001-160000). Once you hit those levels, you cannot level any higher until you transfer to Curse of Azure Bonds. On top of this, each race has level-caps for the classes they are allowed to be. Meaning if your chars are not human, chances are they will not always be able to advance as high as a human character of the same class could. Though with the example of your fighter-thief... the only explanation i can think of is you started with a Human fighter, got to level 4, and then changed classes to a thief... based on the old rules (before 3ed) for DnD you can NOT level your original class once you change classes (meaning your fighter-thief is unable to further proceed in his studies as a fighter, as he is fully concentrating on his studies as a thief)... Often why if you plan to change a character during a game (i only did this in Pools of Darkness since its DEFAULT level cap was level 40 for all classes) often wait until your current class is ONE LEVEL lower than the level-cap on the class you are changing to... so you get the most of your original class, and will also end up with the most of the newer class.
Hopefully this will clear things up... if your fighter-thief wasn't a human that switched classes mid-game... then i dunno what to say, cause all the other races can go above level 4 in PoR. Other than that you might not have realized he was able to level, or ended up with him/her able to level both classes at the same time, but didn't level the fighter class... lotta things that could happen, dunno if it's necessarily a bug... *shrug* I know i've played it on IBM/PC... my bros played it on an old Commodore... and never had that problem.. so i dunno what else to say |
| htoburen |
Posted - 19 Aug 2003 : 04:51:24
Well, the book itself is a bit vague on the subject. In the back, it shows sixth level magic users with an upper limit of 60,000 points, but it does not say what happens when you get there. But in the introduction it does say that you keep getting more spell memorization capability above each leve.
But in any case, this is clearly a bug. There is no reason for it to quit advancing my fighter thief at 4th level fighter. And it has finally agreed to promote her at 100,00 points. Which relates to nothing. I refused, s it dropped her back to 35,00 points and I'm hoping that if I get the game fixed, I can promote her at 160,000 points gain. I do know that it works in Curse of the Azure BNonds. SO I thinki t is just abug. But who knows.
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| Zacas |
Posted - 12 Aug 2003 : 05:01:12
It's been a while... and i'm a bit lazy to go grab the game book... but i don't believe many of the classes were able to get much higher than somewhere in the 5-10 level range... that was the game was set up... and then curse went from like around 10-15 or so... secret of silver blade 15-20 or so... and pools of darkness went up to 40... and you gotta think... that game is like over 10-15+ years old... things weren't made quite as well as they are nowadays... |
| The Sage |
Posted - 10 Aug 2003 : 06:02:12
As for the 'unstuffit utility', I'll just modify some of the code to take that into consideration when it runs on your OS. It would really help if I new what version of Linux you are using.
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| The Sage |
Posted - 10 Aug 2003 : 05:58:47
That sounds great htoburen.
If you ever have any trouble writing your game, just let me know, as I may be able to help. I have had some experience in creating games software using a variety of programming languages (like VB and APL) and a number of different platforms.
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| htoburen |
Posted - 09 Aug 2003 : 22:50:50
Hey that would be great. I'm very interested in Linux and the AD&D format in general. (In fact I have plans to write my own game shortly.)
you can email me directly at htoburen@yahoo.com
Thanks again. (my comp is down at the moment, but I'll have it and my new (read old pc) Linux box up again one of these days.
ps. When the program reads in it goes through an unstuffit utility. Does that complicate things? |
| The Sage |
Posted - 09 Aug 2003 : 05:09:32
I have heard of this. Although I tend more towards Unix (afterall that's where C came from... ) than the Linux OS, I do believe there are very old debugging programs that could patch most of the version errors inherent in that game version. In fact I think I have a general 'debugger' program that I had written some years ago that would be perfect.
Of course I am assuming you know how to run code on your machine. If not let me know and I'll email the details concerning a free-to-download debug program which uses 'self-install'.
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