| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Alisttair |
Posted - 11 Jul 2008 : 11:53:12
Well I am finally going to be able to play NWN 2. My brother purchased a state of the art computer that can handle the game so I will be stealing his computer when he is away to play this game. Happy times  |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Hawkins |
Posted - 05 Aug 2008 : 21:38:29
quote:
Originally posted by Jimbobx
quote:
I played through the night and got in big trouble with the wify, who was expecting me to be bright eyed and bushy-tailed for the many chores she had lined up for me...
That sounds familiar 
Lol. Ever since I have introduced my wife to video games, she is normally the one staying up too late playing them! |
| Jimbobx |
Posted - 05 Aug 2008 : 21:19:24
quote:
I played through the night and got in big trouble with the wify, who was expecting me to be bright eyed and bushy-tailed for the many chores she had lined up for me...
That sounds familiar
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| Jimbobx |
Posted - 05 Aug 2008 : 21:17:22
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Jimbobx
For example in a crypt area I'm working on breaking into a sarcophagus will be rewarded with an alignment shift 2points toward chaotic & 2 points Evil. Thus deterring those pesky Crypt looting Paladins  .
I hope you're going to explain your rationale for that somewhere (in-game or outside of it). I wouldn't be surprised if you get feedback from people who are POed at such a penalty (not everyone plays paladins, let alone crypt-looting ones).
Disturbing the interred bodies of somebody's loved one (laying it on thick here  ) = bad. Get's them 2 points evil.
Robbing said body = naughty, naughty. Get's them 2 points chaotic.
That said I'm thinking of modifying that to 1 point of each. That way they'd get to break into and rob around 20 sarcophagi before it had an effect on their alignment; and I can't say fairer than that.
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| Purple Dragon Knight |
Posted - 05 Aug 2008 : 17:00:40
Just bought NWN2 yesterday...
I play a male strongheart halfling rogue/paladin of Arvoreen going by the name of Tolbin Rondilon. I played through the night and got in big trouble with the wify, who was expecting me to be bright eyed and bushy-tailed for the many chores she had lined up for me...  |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 05 Aug 2008 : 16:29:18
quote:
Originally posted by Pandora
Games are part of our societies and culture and they are a part of how our children learn how to behave. "Teaching" them that stealing has no consequences is not the right thing to do IMO. Even if it is "only a game" I think part of it shapes our behaviour because " a lie repeated often enough becomes true" and kids spend a lot of time with games.
Sorry, but I'm going to be blunt with you: I'm an adult and I think I have a good sense of morals. I don't need to be taught morality through games I play for fun. Not only that, but I may take issue with the morals you (and I mean "you" in the general sense) attempt to teach me--I might find them poorly thought out and/or inconsistent.
I think I'm safe in assuming that most NWN players are not small children. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 05 Aug 2008 : 16:26:00
quote:
Originally posted by Jimbobx
For example in a crypt area I'm working on breaking into a sarcophagus will be rewarded with an alignment shift 2points toward chaotic & 2 points Evil. Thus deterring those pesky Crypt looting Paladins .
I hope you're going to explain your rationale for that somewhere (in-game or outside of it). I wouldn't be surprised if you get feedback from people who are POed at such a penalty (not everyone plays paladins, let alone crypt-looting ones). |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 05 Aug 2008 : 16:22:59
quote:
Originally posted by Pandora
That is a good thing to hear ... sadly none of the NWN original campaigns had it, so morality seems low priority with that design team  .
Actually, the sequels did have consequences for stealing (especially Shadows of Undrentide), but once again I disliked the implementation, which was inconsistent at best.
I've found that most games that decide to play "morality police" do so in ways that I wind up having objections to, so I honestly don't see the problem with trusting that the majority of players are actually going to play the alignment they picked. If a person plays a paladin who likes to steal, we might rightly say that's stupid and pointless, but if it's a single-player game it's not hurting anyone. What's really dumb, I think, is implementing draconian alignment-shifting just to punish those people (who again, likely aren't affecting anyone else's game).
Remember--this is a computer game. In a single player computer game, there is no human DM on hand to discuss moral issues and rulings with. All there is is what is scripted, so I think it's more fair to give players the benefit of the doubt. |
| Pandora |
Posted - 05 Aug 2008 : 15:48:06
quote:
Originally posted by Jimbobx
Many fan created modules and certainly module I've been involved in will have consequences built in for stealing.
For example in a crypt area I'm working on breaking into a sarcophagus will be rewarded with an alignment shift 2points toward chaotic & 2 points Evil. Thus deterring those pesky Crypt looting Paladins .
That is a good thing to hear ... sadly none of the NWN original campaigns had it, so morality seems low priority with that design team . |
| Jimbobx |
Posted - 05 Aug 2008 : 13:42:44
quote:
I was referring to taking stuff from a locked chest or table or something, so spotting them wasn’t really an option. A game should give the option to steal, but with a price to pay ... possible change of your alignment to something you don’t like.
Many fan created modules and certainly any module I've been involved in will have consequences built in for stealing.
For example in a crypt area I'm working on breaking into a sarcophagus will be rewarded with an alignment shift 2points toward chaotic & 2 points Evil. Thus deterring those pesky Crypt looting Paladins .
|
| Pandora |
Posted - 05 Aug 2008 : 08:31:11
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Pandora
Well I always think that the "alignment point system" is a good idea for adaptation into paper D&D rules...
I've always disliked it (did I say that already?). In the NWN2 official campaign, the game seems to think people are either Lawful Good or Chaotic Evil.
Well the implementation wasnt great, but IMO deciding ahead of time how certain actions affect a PCs alignment and - most importantly - that the alignment is not fixed and set in stone forever is a good idea. If you give your players several ways to solve a problem its nice to see how they decide: Do they take the burden of defending a village against overwhelming odds or rather steal as much as they can in the chaos? The hardest alignment to follow is probably true neutral.
The consequences of stealing from a civilian should not be simply based upon getting caught or not. I was referring to taking stuff from a locked chest or table or something, so spotting them wasnt really an option. A game should give the option to steal, but with a price to pay ... possible change of your alignment to something you dont like. Having a PC arrested in a game like NWN is a. not fun, b. without consequences (like sleeping for new spells ... you can do it in an instant) or c. potentially gamebreaking because your character is too poor to pay the fine / bribe to get out of jail. Games are part of our societies and culture and they are a part of how our children learn how to behave. "Teaching" them that stealing has no consequences is not the right thing to do IMO. Even if it is "only a game" I think part of it shapes our behaviour because " a lie repeated often enough becomes true" and kids spend a lot of time with games. |
| Tarus Bloodheart |
Posted - 02 Aug 2008 : 19:53:40
Hello everyone I was wondering if there are any FGR games that will work with vista I have NWN2 but can't get it to work sorry if this has been posted before thanks for your time. |
| Thangorn |
Posted - 02 Aug 2008 : 12:10:54
The only reason I got NWN2 is to build the Moonsea as accurately to canon as I can manage..
What we've been able to do is amazing and I openly welcome any Candlekeepers to ALFA to come and enjoy it.
I spend ridiculous amounts of time building for real roleplayers, not munchkin gamers, and I hope what I and the Moonsea team have been able to create will inspire you.
btw.. If you are wondering about the ALFA credentials, I've been a devoted old school 2nd Edition (+ players option) Forgotten Realms player for 18 years and many ALFAns have much more FAerun/D&D experience than me..!!
Feel free to come on down and check it out..
alandfaraway.org
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| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 01 Aug 2008 : 17:32:19
quote:
Originally posted by Pandora
Well I always think that the "alignment point system" is a good idea for adaptation into paper D&D rules...
I've always disliked it (did I say that already?). In the NWN2 official campaign, the game seems to think people are either Lawful Good or Chaotic Evil. |
| Kiaransalyn |
Posted - 01 Aug 2008 : 14:29:29
quote:
Originally posted by Jimbobx
What would happen if the designers had boosted their spot skills?
It's been about three years since I was actively doing this sort of thing, so I may have given the wrong skill.
Anyway, as I recall/understand it a Pick Pocket skill check is opposed by the potential victim's Spot check. If the potential target spots your PC's Pick Pocket attempt then your PC is very likely to become the victim of an assault.
If I recall NWN rightly, the NPC's faction sets so that the PC's faction is considered differently, even hostilely in some cases.
Edit: So to answer your question, higher Spot levels mean their Pick Pocket attempts are less successful. In the taverns I created I would give high Spot skills to bar-staff and the half-orc bouncers who worked the doors. Obviously some of the customers would be easy targets but if you give them random walks and randomised timed triggers so that PC's couldn't farm then you've done your best to make it a fairly realistic setting. I also made a few of the 'regulars" severely tooled up so that low level rogues would soon travel to the Fugue Plane.
It was a lot of hard work to do but fun to visit once it had worked out. And then someone hacked the forums and killed the community. C'est la vie, eh? |
| Jimbobx |
Posted - 01 Aug 2008 : 13:44:36
quote:
Originally posted by Kiaransalyn
quote:
Originally posted by Pandora
I am also disappointed when stealing every gold piece from civilians in an inn has no consequences ...
Because really it should cause a reaction, shouldn't it.
I wonder if the problem is that the NPC's in the tavern are all standard issue and the designers haven't thought to boost their spot skills. When I've worked modules I've always tried to make the NPC's as relevant as possible. Typically, I give them several PC class levels as well as multiple response dialogues so that PC's get a 95% chance of hearing different response.
What would happen if the designers had boosted their spot skills?
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| Kiaransalyn |
Posted - 01 Aug 2008 : 11:16:47
quote:
Originally posted by Pandora
I am also disappointed when stealing every gold piece from civilians in an inn has no consequences ...
Because really it should cause a reaction, shouldn't it.
I wonder if the problem is that the NPC's in the tavern are all standard issue and the designers haven't thought to boost their spot skills. When I've worked modules I've always tried to make the NPC's as relevant as possible. Typically, I give them several PC class levels as well as multiple response dialogues so that PC's get a 95% chance of hearing different response. |
| Kiaransalyn |
Posted - 01 Aug 2008 : 11:12:21
I haven't bought NWN2 because first I need a new PC to play it on and I need the time. Currently I have neither. Although oddly enough I am part of a team (writing/editing dialogues and journals) that make NWN2 modules, which is a consequence of being involved with NWN and related persistent worlds. |
| Hawkins |
Posted - 01 Aug 2008 : 00:01:13
quote:
Originally posted by Pandora
...but I am also disappointed when stealing every gold piece from civilians in an inn has no consequences ...
Yes, that was part of the fun with being a thief in the BG series, the challenge of stealing things right under the noses (or right out of the pockets) of the NPCs. |
| Pandora |
Posted - 31 Jul 2008 : 22:58:16
Well I always think that the "alignment point system" is a good idea for adaptation into paper D&D rules, but I am also disappointed when stealing every gold piece from civilians in an inn has no consequences ... |
| Karzak |
Posted - 21 Jul 2008 : 17:20:26
Some of the best user-made NWN modules are the ones that aren't set in FR. Actually, I'd say most of them are. HeX Coda, Tale of Arterra, Elegia Eternum/Excrucio Eternum, and so on.
Regardless, NWN2's official campaign is piss. Mask of the Betrayer's OC is, however, perfection itself. |
| Jimbobx |
Posted - 16 Jul 2008 : 20:23:44
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I just want to let everyone know that even if the official campaign that comes with the games is unsatisfying, there are (usually fan-made) modules that can be downloaded from NWVault. The franchise has been around long enough so that the games that are generally regarded as "good" are very easy to find (that is, you don't have to wade through thousands of crappy games to find one gem). There are also some modules made by Bioware, though you have to pay for them, as well as modules made by actual game development teams.
Absolutely. As far as I'm concerned the Official Campaigns that come with NWN1 are barely worth playing. The original NWN was boring, SOU was almost passable while HotU was just alright. What makes NWN1 the game it is is the modules created by the community. There are a few really excellent FR based mods. Of the top of my head "an Ancient Heart" and "Ancient Heart 2" spring to mind. As Rin said, all available to download on Nwn Vault. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 16 Jul 2008 : 17:46:00
I just want to let everyone know that even if the official campaign that comes with the games is unsatisfying, there are (usually fan-made) modules that can be downloaded from NWVault. The franchise has been around long enough so that the games that are generally regarded as "good" are very easy to find (that is, you don't have to wade through thousands of crappy games to find one gem). There are also some modules made by Bioware, though you have to pay for them, as well as modules made by actual game development teams. |
| Talwyn |
Posted - 16 Jul 2008 : 09:27:11
I eagerly got NWNII when it came out but about 2/3s of the way through the game, got increasingly bored with the main campaign plus the interface really irked me and the camera angles where dam annoying at times. So eventually I just stopped playing it as I just grew dis-satisfied with it as a follow up to NWN. I was hoping for a much better game than what I bought.
However this is just my opinion, those who haven't tried the game, please go ahead and make up your own minds. |
| Ergdusch |
Posted - 16 Jul 2008 : 08:36:08
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
Well I am finally going to be able to play NWN 2. My brother purchased a state of the art computer that can handle the game so I will be stealing his computer when he is away to play this game. Happy times
Oh, how I know this problem...! Unfortunatelly I don't have a brother's computer to hi-jack. 
Anyhow, good gaming! |
| Jimbobx |
Posted - 16 Jul 2008 : 06:18:21
quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
Hey, I may be the only scribe on this forum who hasn't yet tried NWN 2 but is still playing NWN 1!  
The reason for this has been my lack of funds... I just updated my computer and I *think* it might run the game now (hey, I'm a librarian, and state-of-the-art computers are beyond my meager salary). I'm going to purchase it eventually, though...
Purchased NWN2 but the old girl couldn't handle the graphics. It ran but it was slooooowwww.
But life isn't too bad for the NWN1'ers. With CEP2.1 and the 1.69 patch out the game is better than ever. |
| scererar |
Posted - 16 Jul 2008 : 05:28:20
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
Hey, I may be the only scribe on this forum who hasn't yet tried NWN 2 but is still playing NWN 1!
Well, NWN1 is a good system (I say system because there's more to it than a single game), so enjoy.
I went through the entire NWN 1 game with expansions. My son is now trying his hand at this one. Doing well too I am currently running NWN 2's expansion on my laptop. good fun when I have the time to play. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 16 Jul 2008 : 00:09:06
quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
Hey, I may be the only scribe on this forum who hasn't yet tried NWN 2 but is still playing NWN 1!
Well, NWN1 is a good system (I say system because there's more to it than a single game), so enjoy. |
| Hawkins |
Posted - 15 Jul 2008 : 23:05:11
Nothing wrong with still enjoying NWN1. That was one game that was always installed on my computer for something like 5 years straight. Plus, my CD1 from it is developing a crack it has been used so much (need to copy that so I have a back-up, I would be sad if it broke). |
| Asgetrion |
Posted - 15 Jul 2008 : 22:05:52
Hey, I may be the only scribe on this forum who hasn't yet tried NWN 2 but is still playing NWN 1!
The reason for this has been my lack of funds... I just updated my computer and I *think* it might run the game now (hey, I'm a librarian, and state-of-the-art computers are beyond my meager salary). I'm going to purchase it eventually, though... |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 13 Jul 2008 : 04:11:00
Enjoy. |
