| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| MaxKaladin |
Posted - 21 Mar 2007 : 20:52:40
I finished Swords of Eveningstar a couple of weeks ago and I've been reading City of Splendors since (slow going as I usually just read over lunch). What I've enjoyed about both books over some other realms novels I've read is that the books are about relative 'nobodies' rather than the heavy hitter iconic characters like Elminster and so-forth and relatively minor events rather than RSEs.
Keeping in mind that I haven't really read any Realms novels in several years (except the Cormyr series), what would be good books for me to look into?
Edit: Oops, this was meant to go in the novel forum. Could a moderator please move it? Sorry.
Mod edit: Moved to the right spot.  |
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 30 Apr 2007 : 04:13:34
quote:
Originally posted by initiate
That's a big, big, huge story, and I think that Rich Baker should have received more space to tell it in. I'm not talking about 600 page novels. I speak of an extra 50 or at most 100 pages. Dragonlance paperbacks frequently reach or exceed 400 pages. I see no reason why Realms books should not be likewise priveleged, despite their action, Sword and Sorcery label.
Fair enough point--even a few Realms novels are fatter than normal (the Cormyr and Evermeet novels, for instance). Anyway, I am more or less done discussing what I disliked about the TLM series, having discussed such time and time again...but I will say that, based on my opinion of what is there, I'm not sure if that series would have improved with more page space. I read The Shadow Stone and enjoyed it, so I'll just suggest that perhaps Rich Baker "dropped the ball" with TLM.
If you want to reopen those old threads, feel free--if I have something new to say, I'll say it. |
| initiate |
Posted - 30 Apr 2007 : 02:14:16
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin Wrote:
True, but one thing I loved about this series was that...
Very true. I found the Year of the Rogue Dragons to be a very nice balance of the personal with the epic. I think that, author talent wise, the potential was there for this in The Last Mythal as well, but got nudged out by the cut and dry size limitations placed on the books. Both of the LM novels I've read thus far have been to short, and that's almost certainly not Rich Baker's fault. I know that the most probable reasons for WotC's reluctance to publish door-stoppers have been talked about here before, and they all make sense to me. But I think that if the editorial staff was a bit more flexible they'd probably find themselves releasing better books. Each Last Mythal novel is 352 pages, around 110000 words I believe. In that space, we've got, (so far as I know):
Spoilers many and vast:
both of Araevin's quests for the kiiras
the entire progress of the Miritar Crusade
the reclamation of Myth Glauroch and Myth Drannor
involvement with the High Forest wood elves, the Silver Marches, Zhentarim, Hillsfar, the Silver Ravens, the Dales, the Cormanthor drow, the Sildeyuir
LM also branches more than YoRD, with important things going on in a larger number of different places, (always, always at least two at once, and often more.)
That's a big, big, huge story, and I think that Rich Baker should have received more space to tell it in. I'm not talking about 600 page novels. I speak of an extra 50 or at most 100 pages. Dragonlance paperbacks frequently reach or exceed 400 pages. I see no reason why Realms books should not be likewise priveleged, despite their action, Sword and Sorcery label.
Perhaps its time to reopen some of the old Last Mythal threads. We seem to be potentially uncovering some interesting discussion on where the series might possibly have steered wrong, but 'twould be a shame to encroach further here.
Slightly more on topic: While I've not read them myself, Phil Athans's The Watercourse Trilogy, which includes Whisper of Waves and Lies of Light, and finishes in June with Scream of Stone, sounds like its got something of an intimate focus. Apparently the series focuses on the personal endeavours of a few particular people, in a region of the Realms seldom visited.
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| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 30 Apr 2007 : 01:03:03
quote:
Originally posted by initiate
More, its probably good to remember that the trilogy put a fairly tight focus on events which probably covered a near setting-wide canvas. Its a shame that Richard Lee Byers wasn't able to show off some of the effects of the Rage on other parts of Faerun, but given the fact that dragons are big, angry, and more or less the optimal engines of destruction, I don't see any way that their rampage could avoid having some long-lasting effects, regardless of whether or not we've been told about them.
True, but one thing I loved about this series was that in spite of being billed as a "Realms Shaking Event", RLB stayed totally focused on the story he was trying to tell, namely the story surrounding the central characters. Indeed, one problem I had with the Last Mythal series was that it seemed to be trying very hard to be a "grand-epic-all-encompassing war trilogy!" and therefore it lacked the more personal, emotional touches that I though the Year of Rogue Dragons series had (for example, there is a large list of "dramatis personae" in the LMT, but many have only a few lines or are simply referred to, making them scenery rather than characters). |
| initiate |
Posted - 29 Apr 2007 : 01:56:53
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin Wrote:
This is going to sound weird to some of you...
For the most part I agree with you. Keep in mind, though, that while Sammaster hasn't really been featured as such, (presumably he's been off being mad, and devising his big scheme), he is, (I believe), the founder of the Cult of the Dragon, and a major lich. Thus, his permanent destruction will certainly shake up the Cult, even though they are by no means down and out.
More, its probably good to remember that the trilogy put a fairly tight focus on events which probably covered a near setting-wide canvas. Its a shame that Richard Lee Byers wasn't able to show off some of the effects of the Rage on other parts of Faerun, but given the fact that dragons are big, angry, and more or less the optimal engines of destruction, I don't see any way that their rampage could avoid having some long-lasting effects, regardless of whether or not we've been told about them.
As far as being comparable to Last Mythal in its Realms-shakingness, though, I agree with you that no it isn't. The Last Mythal shakes the Dales and Cormanthor up quite a bit, though I found myself fairly amenable to most of the changes. I don't think it needed to happen; (at least not right now); I liked it fine the way it was. But I don't object to it the way some others do. (Note that I have not yet read the novel in which the big changes actually take place. "Final Gate" still eludes me, though I'm hoping to read it this summer, and I suppose it could change my opinion.)
And, yet, Year of the Rogue Dragons did certainly change Realms fandom. It wrought one great scar, one deep wound that n'ere shall mend, made one indelible mark the name of which is Terror... It brought us the aberrant Rouge Dragon!
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| initiate |
Posted - 29 Apr 2007 : 01:53:13
MaxKaladin Wrote:
I always enjoyed Elaine Cunningham's books and I've been meaning to figure out...
A worthy quest, my friend. Behold more than ye asked for:
Sorry for the length of the post below; I've laid out a bunch of Elaine Cunningham's stuff, (from memory, so I may be wrong), chronologically and by title, because its vitally important that you read these books if you haven't already.
You said the last book of EC's you read was Liriel Baenre's first novel. That would be Daughter of the Drow, the beginning of the Starlight and Shadows series, which goes like this:
Daughter of the Drow
Tangled Webs
Windwalker, (published much later)
Counsellors and Kings is unconnected to any of EC's other Realms novels. It takes place in Halruaa and has, unfortunately, gone out of print. Libraries and second-hand book stores are still your friends, though. I may be entirely wrong here, (who am I to know, after all), but just based on the way its constructed it seems to be the only one of her series which was, from the start, conceived as such.
The Magehound
The Floodgate
The Wizardwar
Songs and Swords is probably the series you've encountered most. Note that some of the earlier Songs and Swords novels were originally released as part of the Harpers series, indeed, I believe that series of stand-alones ended with one of them. Not quite sure which, but it was probably Thornhold. The series goes like this:
Elfshadow
Elfsong
Silver Shadows
Thornhold, (concerned with a different main character, though Danilo and Khelben both show up, Like all other Songs and Swords books a must-read quality wise)
The Dream Spheres
forthcoming concluding volume, much talked about but still largely ethereal at this point
There's also Evermeet: Island of Elves, which I'm sure you've heard of, and, (coauthored with Ed Greenwood), The City of Splendors, which you say you've read.
Turox Wrote:
"...need to keep her writing as she is so good."
Aye, that's the spirit, my friend. Let's hope publishers think like you and my humble self. As for the anthology coming out in May, it is, just to clarify, comprised entirely of Elaine Cunningham's stories. Apparently these will include three new tales, including: one which picks up where Thornhold left off, and is called "The Knights of Samular", a brief folk-tale, and a new Liriel story. (I believe I found this in EC's question thread hereabouts or on amazon.) I was not aware that Christmas was taking place in May this year; however such appears to be the case.
Paul Kemp's Erivis Cale stories are arranged thusly:
The Halls of Stormweather anthology contains Cale's inaugural short story, the title of which escapes me at the moment.
Shadow's Witness, Book 2 of the Sembia Series, (being reprinted this month, as it happens), is Cale's novel entry in that series. Though I'm sure he appears as a supporting character in some of the other books, I went directly on to the Cale series after Shadow's Witness and had no problems. If Shadow's Witness's plot and development strikes you as very linear and a mite stilted, take heart; it was Paul Kemp's first novel. Keep reading and you shall be rewarded beyond all dark imaginings.
The Erivis Cale Trilogy:
Twilight Falling
Dawn of Night
Midnight's Mask
takes place during the year 1373, after the Sembia series, very different in tone from a lot of other Realms stuff, dark; gritty; very fast-paced
The Twilight War:
Shadowbred
Shadowstorm, (August 2007)
Shadowrealm, (May 2008, as announced in the adverts at the back of "Depths of Madness", by Erik Scott de Bie)
as I recall, begins in the ninth month (Elaint) of 1374, billed as a Realms-shaking trilogy which also continues the story of Erivis Cale, first book is Paul Kemp's best to date in my opinion, Though Cale could well be considered a "heavy-hitter" at this point, Kemp's talent for character progression makes his stories must-reads in my opinion, skippable only if its the principle of heavy-hitting focus characters which you object to, rather than the lack of the personal touch which sometimes stems from placing the truly mighty at center stage.
Glad to hear your enjoying Elminster's Daughter. The problems I had with Elminster in Hell need not be aired here, but I found El's Daughter to be a much more workable tale. I have the utmost respect for what Ed was trying to do within the pages of El in Hell, and I think that it could have been awesome. But there are things that can be accomplished within WotC word limits and then there are things which cannot, and I thought that this fell into the latter category. El's Daughter attempted less, and in doing so achieved more.
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| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 28 Apr 2007 : 00:57:43
I can now say I've read all the novels in the Wizards series, and out of the four books, only Blackstaff features events that some would call high impact (though again, I'm not even sure that it's truly "Realms Shaking").
Also, don't forget the Rogues novels. The protagonists in those series are all nobodies. Tazi is from the Sembia series, true, but I wouldn't call her a "heavy hitter". |
| Matthus |
Posted - 27 Apr 2007 : 23:54:48
"I finished Swords of Eveningstar a couple of weeks ago and I've been reading City of Splendors since (slow going as I usually just read over lunch). What I've enjoyed about both books over some other realms novels I've read is that the books are about relative 'nobodies' rather than the heavy hitter iconic characters like Elminster and so-forth and relatively minor events rather than RSEs. "
______________________________________________________________________
Hey MaxKaladin,
as you mentioned I also don't like "heavy hitter iconic characters"... I would recommend the Series "The Priests", The The Wizards" and "The Fighters". There are singles ones which have high impact one Faerun - for example Blackstaff about Khelben Arunsun(discussed in some ohter topics), but in general you'll will experince some nice develpoment in character building - there almost aren't an "black or white" solutions any more... |
| Erik Scott de Bie |
Posted - 27 Apr 2007 : 22:10:08
I believe you mean Lord of Stormweather, by Dave Gross.
Cheers |
| eldritchknight |
Posted - 27 Apr 2007 : 19:49:51
I regard to Erevis Cale books, I have only read Shadow's Witnessbefore reading the Erevis Cale Trilogy, and didn't miss anything. I think there was another book about him and the matron of the Uskevren being sent to another realm via magic, but I believe it was written by another author.
Can anyone tell me the title and author of the book?
Thanks!! |
| turox |
Posted - 13 Apr 2007 : 22:04:27
It's not Realms related but I picked up a new book from Elaine a couple of months ago. The title is The Blood Red Harp. It is an Evercrack err Everquest novel. I only lightly skimmed through it but as I used to play that game I was interested in it.
I also picked it up to support Elaine becuase need to keep her writing as she is so good.
Just letting you know cause you said you weren't sure if she had written anything recently.
Realms related there is an Anthology coming out called the Best of Realms book 3. Packed with EC's stories in it that is due out in May. |
| MaxKaladin |
Posted - 13 Apr 2007 : 21:34:57
I picked up "Elminster in Hell" and "Elminster's Daughter" at the bookstore. I've read the former (more or less because it's an Ed book and in case I needed it for the latter) and am now partway through the latter. I liked "Elminster in Hell", but not so much as "City of Splendors". I'm enjoying "Elminster's Daughter" so-far and I'd say I like it much more than "Elminster in Hell".
I haven't decided what to pick next. I thought about the "Erevis Cale" books, but I haven't quite worked out the reading order. As I recall, I found that he's had books of his own and books as part of the Sembia series and I'm not sure what comes first chronologically.
I always enjoyed Elaine Cunningham's books and I've been meaning to figure out what she's wrote recently (I have already read a lot of her earlier books). I think the last book of hers I read was the first one with the drow priestess.
One of my "guilty pleasures", Realms-wise, was Bertie Wooster and Jeeves, um, Giogi Wyvernspur and his "man". I wish there were more like it.
I may pick up the Last Mythal books if I decide to run a Dalelands game.
I expect I'll probably go pick up the "Blackstaff" novel at some point. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 10 Apr 2007 : 23:46:00
This is going to sound weird to some of you. But I honestly didn't find the Year of Rogue Dragon's series to be all that...setting-shaking, at least not to the extent that the Last Mythal series was. More to the point (highlight for spoilers):
Is the big "Realms-shaking thing" the fact that Sammaster died? So what? He didn't seem like an active character in the Realms before this series, and by the end of the series he served his purpose. The author himself has stated that the Cult of the Dragon was not permanently destroyed.
Iyriaclea (sp?) died...again, so what? I didn't know much or care much about this character until I read the book--she was not a prominent character in Realmslore, and she lived in the Great Glacier, where she didn't affect all that much. So, in my opinion I don't think this series "bulldozed" the setting as much as it could have (and no, I don't say that's a bad thing!). Nothing is on par with "the elves are back in Myth Drannor!", here. Not to me anyway.
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| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 10 Apr 2007 : 17:30:17
quote:
Originally posted by initiate
And there are already enough varieties of dragon. We've done metals, colours, various types of rock, and locations. Apparently we're starting in to the periodic table now. We most emphatically do not need dragons named after artificial compounds. I mean. . . what would their abilities be like anyway? Their breath weapons?
Are you saying the osmium dragon wasn't an excellent addition to the game? Next you're going to tell me the molybdenum dragon is unnecessary... 
Seriously, I've commented on the ever-increasing numbers of draconic and near-draconic critters more than once... But that's a topic best described in its own thread. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 10 Apr 2007 : 16:11:58
No, don't stop now, my Lady...
I don't know when, or even how, but I WILL be using this in an campaign at some point.
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| The Hooded One |
Posted - 10 Apr 2007 : 15:56:40
And now * I * can't resist.
The warrior stared down at the twisted body of his longtime swordbrother. Araunh was arched up on his elbows as if in agony, frozen forever with his mouth open in a soundless scream. He was thickly coated in something deep-red, that was flaking off yet had a strangely metallic sheen.
"What happened to him?" he asked.
"Rouge dragon," said the hin kneeling beside Araunh's head. "It breathed on him. Cherry Frost; he never had a chance."
 Sorry. I'll stop now. 
love,
THO |
| initiate |
Posted - 10 Apr 2007 : 04:40:23
I'm mostly going to echo other people's recommendations, but here goes:
I have not read as many of the class based novels as I would like, but one in particular stands out for me, and that one is "Ghostwalker", by Erik Scott de Bie. While I wouldn't call the characters common folk, it certainly does not shake the Realms. It is, instead, a story about personal vendetta, and family strife, and a whole bunch of other stuff. There's more than enough going on to keep the pages turning, but the personal focus is never lost. I'd have to read both again, but from what I recall I feel fairly safe in ranking Ghostwalker on a level with City of Splendors as one of my two favourite Realms novels of 2005.
Regarding the suggestion of the Year of the Rogue Dragons, and Last Mythal books, I personally enjoyed them, [though I have not yet read Final Gate, which caused something of a stir], but if you're not in the market for Realms shaking events I'd advise you to stay away. Both are, while a lot of fun, very "Realms shaking", the Last Mythal in particular.
If you enjoyed the Cormyr series, like Ed Greenwood's style, and have not yet read it, then Elminster's Daughter should do you nicely. It takes a look at Cormyr a few years after the war with the Devil Dragon, and while some rather mighty characters are involved I didn't find that they overwhelmed the story. I've been coming to enjoy Ed Greenwood's novels a great deal more with the advent of his more recent fiction; Death of the Dragon and Elminster's Daughter marked the beginning of this trend, and Swords of Eveningstar its glorious confirmation as something right and true.
I wholeheartedly support Scererar's recommendation of Elaine Cunningham's Songs and Swords series, which you may already have read if you've been through some of the older novels. I am a proponent of the theory that Elaine Cunningham's fiction is more or less required reading for all those interested in the Realms If you haven't read her Starlight and Shadows trilogy, that's excellent, too. Also her Counsellors and Kings trilogy; [I've only read the first novel, but its quality and the author's track record cause me to have no hesitation in recommending the whole series]; though I understand that the books have gone out of print, [a crime against human kind], and may thus be difficult to find.
Also, I have recently finished Erik Scott de Bie's second novel Depths of Madness. It is rockin'. I'd compare it to his previous Ghostwalker of which I thought so highly, but the two novels are so different in tone that I'm not sure that would be quite fair. I'm almost tempted to predict that Ghostwalker will be more universally appealing, but if you're in the mood for something gloomy, intense, and gritty, Depths will not send you astray. There's the added bonus, as Rinonalyrna Fathomlin pointed out, that it, too, does not shake the Realms. Matter of fact, its a very focused story.
And there are already enough varieties of dragon. We've done metals, colours, various types of rock, and locations. Apparently we're starting in to the periodic table now. We most emphatically do not need dragons named after artificial compounds. I mean. . . what would their abilities be like anyway? Their breath weapons?
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| Virendar |
Posted - 10 Apr 2007 : 00:55:55
lol...i didnt realize that the Spine of the World did not contain Drizzt in it...until i was more than half-way through the book LOL. every new chapter i was wondering....when will the story go to drizzt !!
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| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 01 Apr 2007 : 01:06:52
Depths of Madness by Erik Scott de Bie (1st of the Dungeons series, and the only one out as of this date) is also a good example of a Realms novel that is content to just be a good story rather than "shake up the Realms".
As for the Wizards series, so far I've only read Blackstaff and Bloodwalk. The much talked about "RSE" in Blackstaff is, in fact, arguably NOT a true Realms-shaking event (although obviously it's about Khelben Arunsun), and Bloodwalk did not have any of the characteristics of an over-the-top RSE novel: no well-known, super-powerful characters, nothing that drastically changes the setting.
For those who are looking for a good rouge (or eyeshadow, or lip gloss, or lipstick, or foundation...), PM me--I've got some great recommendations! |
| maransreth |
Posted - 28 Mar 2007 : 09:20:24
quote:
Originally posted by turox
Also of the later novels there is the Last Mythal trilogy that is a good read and the year of rouge dragons (Rage, Rite and Ruin.) as well. To me both are excellent reads but alot of people weren't big into YoRD. If you don't care to much about a contradiction in timelines or overlook that then like I stated before I thought it was an excellent read.
My two coppers.
Sorry I couldnt resist. I went to another forum and still came back to have my two cents worth as I couldnt resist.
Rouge dragons lmao so we have foundation dragon, mascara dragon, eyeshadow dragon and so forth. I wonder what alignments they would be and what powers/abilities they would have.
Now to the question at hand -
For light entertainment with no known NPCs and no RSEs try any of the Fighters, Priests and Rogues series. I personally like City of the Ravens novel, Evermeet, the Liriel Baenre trilogy by Elaine Cunningham, the Sembia series and subsequent novels by Paul Kemp about Erevis Cale. |
| laethyn |
Posted - 28 Mar 2007 : 04:14:03
The Finder's Stone Trilogy
Still one of the best Realms trilogies IMO.
Also enjoyed the Twilight Giants by Troy Denning.
Althought it's a major event (sorta), the Empires Trilogy. |
| scererar |
Posted - 28 Mar 2007 : 02:05:41
yes the harpers novels are an excellent choice and many of them cross into other existing trilogies. Songs and swords (part of the old harpers set) is also an excellent choice. If you like Ed's style, try Spellfire.
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| MerrikCale |
Posted - 28 Mar 2007 : 02:02:54
quote:
Originally posted by mavericace
I think many of the Harpers books would be a good fit for you. Some of them work on a kind of Realms wide scale but IMO they all have a very personal feel to them.
These are still some of my favorite books |
| mavericace |
Posted - 22 Mar 2007 : 07:02:08
I think many of the Harpers books would be a good fit for you. Some of them work on a kind of Realms wide scale but IMO they all have a very personal feel to them. |
| turox |
Posted - 21 Mar 2007 : 22:16:27
Also of the later novels there is the Last Mythal trilogy that is a good read and the year of rouge dragons (Rage, Rite and Ruin.) as well. To me both are excellent reads but alot of people weren't big into YoRD. If you don't care to much about a contradiction in timelines or overlook that then like I stated before I thought it was an excellent read.
My two coppers. |
| J D Dunsany |
Posted - 21 Mar 2007 : 21:22:09
There are some good recommendations in this thread here:
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4893
Of the later novels, a lot of the Class series books would probably be good for you. The Sembia series (now being reprinted) would also be a good starting point. Personally, I quite enjoyed the 'Scions of Arrabar' series too, but there'll be plenty of ideas floating your way soon!
In any event, welcome back to Realms fiction!
All the best!
JDD |
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