| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 08 Jan 2007 : 15:30:05
While I was going to post this in the Harpers thread, I decided it was better to separate it.
*warning* shameless gushing ahead.
Inspired by Elaine Cunningham's comments, I'm going to take a moment to talk about the Arilyn Moonblade series and what I enjoyed about it most. Oddly, what I think I liked most about it is that Arilyn is mostly a traditional fantasy hero. There's some decided TWISTS upon it that make it much more interesting than a standard coming of age Campbellian journey but it's interesting how many beats the story of Arilyn hits.
Arilyn as the Knight of the Harpers wielding her magic sword to fight evil is an iconic image really and the moonblades are so damned effective (I'm sure Elaine is sick to death of talking about them) is because they're essentially a Realms realized version of Excalibur. They even have the Kingblade elements. This is despite the irony that Arilyn's Merlin/Obi Wan is evil and she's an assassin for the Harpers in everything but name (she even belongs to an assassin's guild)
Now, Arilyn is not paladin material. Ironically, I think she's pretty close to how they normally exist in my conception. She's a character that continues to fight for the Elven Gods and People (along with all races everywhere) despite the fact that she's pretty much loathed universally by them. That kind of devotion and nobility is the heart of a hero and resounds with us because we'd like to think we could set aside our own disgust at bad treatment in order to help others who need it.
She definitely hits what I think a "Champion of the Seldarine" should be like. One who simultaneously sets an example for all elven people that being an elf is what lies in one's heart rather than one's blood. Of course, Elaine has indicated that its because the Moonblade is damaged that she wasn't toasted when she drew it rather than Arilyn is just an awesome example of elfdom despite her half-blood but I didn't know that when I read it :blush:
The irony that Arilyn is blissfully unaware of her own legendary status in the making only makes the character work more for me. No one likes Arilyn because she's the pupil of the debased traitor Kymil, peripherally involved in Harper murders, a half blood, and a little caustic in her personality yet I imagine that there's already stories about the Half-Elf moonblade fighter spread as far as Elves live. That's certainly how it worked in our games. I actually made her become an inspirational story to half-elves everywhere. I wonder how Arilyn would react to being a godlike figure in Aglarond.
Throughout the books you WANT the elven people to embrace Arilyn and her grandmother to recognize her as a Princess but that wouldn't be fair to the reality of prejudice. Arilyn may make great strides in her lifetime but it'll only be after she's dead that they may start to treat her like the hero she is. The book is more effective than the Drizzt books in dealing with prejudice because the Drow REALLY ARE just a bunch of nasty currs.
It's also interesting to note that Elaine Cunningham also chose not to make Kymil Nimesin into a bigot against humans. Certainly, Kymil probably despises human beings but they're not the focus of his rage and hatred. That's reserved for another inoffensive race that never really did anything to him in Moon Elves. The fact the difference between Gold Elves and Moon Elves is literally only skin deep is another real point of prejudice. It made me want to see a genuine Gold Elf moonblade wielder to show that Kymil's people weren't discriminated against, it was only his rotten classicism.
Kymil has come up again and again in our games as a villain representing hatred against humans, half-elves, Moon Elf reconcilliation, and oddly one reluctant alliance against the Daemonfae. Our games culminated in Kymil eventually wielding the Starym moonblade before finally meeting his end at the hands of Evermeet's Queen after having the blade broken against our party's own half-elf's Sunsword. While much of our campaign is invalidated by what I now know about Moonblades, it was a beautiful work that I thank Elaine for inspiring.
(Weird note: I'm also grateful that Elaine made a schemer who was a fighter as opposed to a wizard)
If just these two characters existed then I could be all sorts of happy by myself but we have their two opposites in Danilo Thann and Elaith Craulnober.
Danilo Thann is a character I absolutely love and at least one book proves that he's capable of holding his own book. Part of what makes him and Arilyn work so well as its amusing how the role of the "serious badass" and "light thinker" is reserved for the woman and male as opposed to the reverse. It's not so uncommon as it used to be but the happy go lucky nature of Danilo as compared to Arilyn's intensity in the first book was very enjoyable because of it.
I do kind of regret that Danilo was a wizard as opposed to being a Bard though. Then again, that would possibly be too stereotypical.
It's refreshing really that Danilo is a character free from angst. He certainly worries about his relationship with Waterdeep, Arilyn, and his Uncle but he's able to take joy from his work and appreciate the world around him. I didn't much care for his elf-philia where he's delighted to find out he has elf-blood (that seems a bit out there character wise) but he's an excellent match for Arilyn. This, despite, the fact that their relationship dooms Arilyn from even a mild form of social acceptance amongst elves.
Elaith Craulnober is a character that works solely because he's such a wretched creature in my existence. You have to wonder how much of Elaith's hate, hate, snarl snarl is really just an act to justify the fact that he wasn't suitable to be a moonblade wielder. Evermeet implies the slimeball was going to rob graves and was leaving Amnestria pregnant after using her for money but I like to think that a mother's viewpoint was influencing the depiction of the Serpent in his youth.
The self hatred that Elaith reserves for himself is enjoyable to read about even as he still treats his fellow elves with honor and dignity. There's no question Elaith is a monster but he's made himself into that due to his unrealistic expectations of himself. It's an interesting coin to Kymil whom believes himself to be a hero yet was probably a base and vile Omen child from day one. Elaith plays the villain even as it doesn't seem to be his nature but its probably too late to come back now.
Now, I've had some objections to the series as it's progressed. I threw down the book Silver Shadows because of the romantic interlude between that Wood Elf Cur Foxfire and Arilyn. For some reason, I'd become emotionally invested in Danilo/Arilyn to the point that it actually upset me despite their status as fictional characters. Instead, I can merely hope he's hit by rains of arrows or an Orc ax :-D
The way the series stops after the huge events of Evermeet also left me with a bit of a sour taste in my mouth. We have the revelation there's another Arilyn Moonblade out there in her full blooded sister and we never find out what happens to her? GRRRRRRRRRRRR but that's probably something Elaine has been asked about a thousand times.
It's really all the little touches I loved about the books. The fact that so many kits from the Complete Book of Bards showed up in Elf Song (Jester! Riddlemaster!) plus the beautiful manipulation of the Knights of the Shield's Lady Thione without being an evil genius (in fact, she's quite dense), I'm just loving it all round.
*end shameless gushing* These books really made the Realms come alive for me. |
| 17 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| ElaineCunningham |
Posted - 09 Jan 2007 : 12:43:36
quote:
Originally posted by Uzzy
Excellent review Charles. I was wondering what your thoughts are on Thornhold, if you've had the good luck to get a copy, and how (if?) it ties in with the rest of the Songs and Swords series.
Thanks for the detailed and well-thought-out review, Charles. Uzzy, it is my opinion that Thornhold does NOT tie in with the rest of the Songs & Swords series, not in plot or theme or tone. But Danilo is a secondary character, and like the other S&S books THORNHOLD was originally part of the Harper line, so there you have it.
On the other hand, S&S was not originally intended to be a series, and I can see the marketing sense in bundling this book in with the others. Thornhold is not really a stand-alone novel, and this is a way to keep it in print. I'm going to try to pull it a bit more into the series by weaving some of the loose threads into RECLAMATION, the sixth and final S&S book. |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 09 Jan 2007 : 04:47:26
Thornhold review
My favorite Elaine Cunningham novel. Now, while I gush like a little girl over the Swords and Spells series, I'm going to be more reserved here. Someday I'll have to review the Daughter of the Drow series (though it would probably come out as "R.A. Salvatore's classic series retold with the realization that Drizzt Do'Urden was just an appalling Emo amongst his people.")
There was sadly only one novel of the adventures of Bronwyn. I also think that she probably didn't have quite the staying power as dear Arilyn does. This is because she goes through a much more transformative story arc than Miss Moonblade and it changes her life. While Dag Zoreth lived, the triumphant new life that Bronwyn has with her niece is certainly a suitable ending for the book.
It's natural to compare Bronwyn with Arilyn Moonblade. They're both strong women warriors with slightly roguish bents (at the beginning), Harpers, lovers of Danilo Thann (lucky bastarve that he is), slightly gruff in their attitudes, orphans, and have severe father issues. Bronwyn is a shopkeeper though and lacks the racial connection to Evermeet or identity issues that Arilyn has. She also is perfectly willing to take the responsibilities fostered upon her and tell those around her to stuff it. Getting this comparison out of the way allows the book to be reviewed on its own merits.
At heart, it's difficult not to sympathize with poor Bronwyn's horrifically bad week. After a bad deal with some black marketeers, she finds herself targetted by the Zhents for a family connection that she didn't know she had. Then she gets to finally meet up with her lost father only to discover the man seemingly doesn't care a wit for her. Elaine's handling of the scene is wonderful but tragic in a way that Bronwyn seems to be the victim but is blinded by her own inability to grasp the situation from a perspective other than her own.
Her father is a man raised by a military order, dedicated to a religious order that demands most of his time, married probably for land/title than love or to preserve the Samular line, and had his family murdered only to have his daughter thrust into his life after 20 years. The guy doesn't reject her but doesn't know what to say and his language strikes her as horribly condemning/impersonal when he's just looking for something in common. The poor fellow is also dead before he gets to say anything else.
It's tragic that Bronwyn will probably never stop to rethink her opinion on the Paladin Lord or his choices in life because of the horrible treatment of her niece at the hands of Agorlrind. Despite my own expressed 'tut tut tuting' about the treatment of Paladins in this book, I sympathized with Hronulf.
It's not a good day to be a Holy Warrior of Tyr though in this book. Realms fans take for granted that Priam Agrivar (Forgotten Realms comics) and Dragonbait are the holy warriors of the Realms. A recovering alcoholic and a Dinosaur. King Gareth (not to be confused with SIR Gareth the Heretic) is treated with kids gloves even though Artemis Entreri rips him pretty badly over the fact that feudalism is an archaic and barbaric construct with his ideals of 'absolute' good being pretty suspect....yet he still wins the moral victory by being willing to rise above these dubious values. Then there's Rebecca of Cryptgarden that I keep wishing would come back despite being only in the 'Ecology of the Pennangalan.' The plucky short haired beauty eager to help others and rescued in her hour of need from eternal damnation by loving big brother figures. Everyone thinks Sturm Brightblade from Dragonlance even though he's a fighter.
We keep forgetting that a lot of people take for granted Paladins at the gaming table are usually played as jackasses. Real life is filled with fundamentalists, fanatics, and self righteous gits whom Lord over people (pun intended). There's Miko the Paladin in the Order of the Stick as just one example. You've got to think that there's got to be at least a couple of Paladins whom can keep their holy status while nevertheless being thoroughly unlikeable.
In light of this, its surprising that Elaine was as favorable as she is. The Knights of Samular aren't a bad lot except for the snake amongst them in Gareth. They're really just self congradulatory. I mean, Bronwyn's seizing of Castle Thornhold at the end is something that she owns legally but its certainly not what her father would have wanted. Stuff her father Bronwyn would say....and with good reason. Nevertheless, it leaves a somewhat ambigious feeling inside me.
Hell, Algorind isn't even unlikeable. However, the sheer stunning lack of compassion displayed in the massacre of Bronwyn's niece's adoptive parents does tend to leave a shocked impression in one's readership. I wonder if Elaine Cunningham was parodying D&D behavior because one of the first lessons in DMing was "You don't go killing people because of their alignment. The difference between an evil act and an evil nature is the latter can be changed." Nevertheless, many players think it's License to Smite. Still, it's hard to hate the guy even when he betrays Bronwyn and shows himself utterly worthy of defrocking even if he's exonerated for Gareth's evil.
Still, somethings decidedly wrong (as in "it's raining toads" levels of wrong) when you display a party of paladins killing Orc Cubs. The Knights of Samular are an order on its last legs and infiltrated by a Cyricist. That's enough for me to get over my distaste for them. Just Order 66 them and have Gareth placed in a Gond built black metal suit of Armor before tossing Dag down a reactor shaft. Maybe Tyr can drop a mountain on Samular Keep while Selune sends Lycanthropes to slaughter the priests of her in Calimport (see Road of the Patriarch).
Ironically, I don't know if Elaine did this intentionally or not but its ironic that Dag Zoreth is such a contrast to the Paladin villains in his utter lack of anything noteworthy. Dag is certainly capable enough but he's such....a petty little man. Say what you will about many Realms villains and even the most self serving of them all in Malik but few of them are genuinely just contemptible. No great ambitions, no genuine charisma, no force of will. Even his quest for the Knights of Samular's magic rings are motivated just by getting back at his father for failing to be there when he needs him. His crimes deserve justice but he strikes me as what probably most of those nameless clerics and wizardhordes that attack Chosen we see in other books are probably composed of. It wouldn't surprise me instead of epic battle that the end of Dag Zoreth was saying the wrong thing while thinking himself a god and Manshoon incinerates him with a snap of his fingers.
I will say that the man runs an excellent siege though and using the privey is a great way to kill an enemy, in real life as well as the Realms it seems. It's good to see both Cyricists and the Zhentarim that are competent. Elaine reminded us that they probably DO win as often as they lose. It's just a pity they didn't keep the Keep longer. I wish we'd get Darkhold, I would have liked to have seen Elaine describe the Pereghost as she sees him for a REAL scary knight. Ditto perhaps Scyulla Darkhope. If that's her version of Paladins, I'd hate to see her vision of Blackguards (Oddly, in my game, Blackguards are every bit as devoted and religious as Paladins....they just believe that their religion justifies their service to whatever end it requires---some see Bane as necessary you know ;-))
I think its ironic that Gareth is so utterly used to being a slave for his god in the Knights of Samular (as opposed to a friend or champion) that he's unable to do anything but change masters even when he's given himself to evil.
Really, the concept of Harper Balance versus Lawful Good is only touched on but very well realized. Other books show that Khelben's compromises can equally backfire in people's faces (Khelben's aid of Fzoul allowed him to unite Zhentil Keep, conquer Mulmaster, and reinvigorate the Church of Bane before promptly BREAKING their pact---can we say oops Khelben?) While here we can understand that a more understanding viewpoint is definitely helpful.
I didn't much care for Ebenezzer Stoneshaft but found him entertaining throughout the book. I only wish that Dag's daughter had a larger role, one would think the girl once the trauma had worn off might be a very interesting young lady to talk to. I'd think it hilarious if she actually spouted off Cyricist dogma every five minutes to Bronwyn's discomfort ;-)
9/10. |
| Uzzy |
Posted - 09 Jan 2007 : 04:29:20
Excellent review Charles. I was wondering what your thoughts are on Thornhold, if you've had the good luck to get a copy, and how (if?) it ties in with the rest of the Songs and Swords series. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 09 Jan 2007 : 04:00:41
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
True but I always rather liked the idea Kymil waged elfocide on the entire Royal House.
It would make sense for him to do so, if he knew they were alive. But there is no indication that he had or acted on such knowledge. I know that absence of proof is not proof of absence, but in cases like this one, I go with Occam's razor. |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 09 Jan 2007 : 00:56:34
True but I always rather liked the idea Kymil waged elfocide on the entire Royal House.
|
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 09 Jan 2007 : 00:49:41
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
At present, Arilyn is one of the only three members of her family left alive (her prolific childbearing years being annihilated by the man that raised Arilyn when no one else would).
Not quite... We don't know the fates of all of the kids Amlaruil and Zaor had. Elaine said, on a previous occasion:
quote:
Yes, several of the royal Moonflower children are dead or MIA. But if you keep in mind that the book is told from a human's point of view, with all the limitations that suggests, the phrase "nothing is known" takes on a different meaning. The ELVES know the fate of most members of their royal family, and in every case Amlaruil knows what befell her children. She would not rest until she had this knowledge, and she has the resources needed to find it. Some of the "missing" princes and princesses are dead, others quietly removed from succession because for one reason or another they are unsuited to rule, and others simply choose to live their lives away from the royal court and the public eye. The elven queen keeps her secrets, and those of her family.
|
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 08 Jan 2007 : 23:54:51
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
It's sort of an odd situation to be sure.
I think Arilyn wants to serve elves and elvenkind but, while she doesn't HATE Amlaruil, I can't think she likes her very much. Serving the Queen of Evermeet pretty much allows Arilyn to be the heroine of the elves she's supposed to be. Otherwise, she's probably going to get all sorts of odd reactions.
This is the individualist (and non-elf) in me speaking, but I don't believe one has to serve specific leaders in order to be heroes to people in general.
True, but she's not exactly fetching Amlauril's tea either. She's going to kill enemies of the elves.
It's an absolutist monarchy. She can't pledge allegiance to the Elven nation apart from her majesty. |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 08 Jan 2007 : 23:53:58
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
I honestly would love to see Elaine write Ammnestria's other daughter finding out that her grandmother handed her half-sister over to the Elves' greatest living enemy in Kymil and disown her.
FYI, Amnestria's oldest child was a son.
Whoops.
|
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 08 Jan 2007 : 23:51:43
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
It's sort of an odd situation to be sure.
I think Arilyn wants to serve elves and elvenkind but, while she doesn't HATE Amlaruil, I can't think she likes her very much. Serving the Queen of Evermeet pretty much allows Arilyn to be the heroine of the elves she's supposed to be. Otherwise, she's probably going to get all sorts of odd reactions.
This is the individualist (and non-elf) in me speaking, but I don't believe one has to serve specific leaders in order to be heroes to people in general. |
| ElaineCunningham |
Posted - 08 Jan 2007 : 23:51:09
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
... and was less proud of her when she pledged her service to the queen. I just feel that if you coldly reject a little girl who happens to be your grandchild, who just lost her mother, then servitude is the least you deserve from her.
On a personal level, certainly. But Arilyn's loyalty is to the elven People, and Amlaruil is the ruler--and some would say the embodiment--of the elven People.
I also saw a certain, err,"f-u element" in Arilyn's presentation of the moonblade to the queen. Subtext: "I survived, no thanks to you, and as much as I hate this effing sword, I'm going to do honor what it, and for that matter, you, stand for." |
| ElaineCunningham |
Posted - 08 Jan 2007 : 23:42:29
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
I honestly would love to see Elaine write Ammnestria's other daughter finding out that her grandmother handed her half-sister over to the Elves' greatest living enemy in Kymil and disown her.
FYI, Amnestria's oldest child was a son. |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 08 Jan 2007 : 23:42:08
It's sort of an odd situation to be sure.
I think Arilyn wants to serve elves and elvenkind but, while she doesn't HATE Amlaruil, I can't think she likes her very much. Serving the Queen of Evermeet pretty much allows Arilyn to be the heroine of the elves she's supposed to be. Otherwise, she's probably going to get all sorts of odd reactions.
|
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 08 Jan 2007 : 23:31:26
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
Some people see themselves as underdogs or even martyrs, and put themselves in situations that reenforce their perceptions of self. Some people know they're being taken, but feel for one reason or another that they have no other options. Other might be too stupid, or ambitious, or lust-driven or [insert adjective here] to notice. Others might be aware they're being used, but regard the situation as a tranaction of sorts with gains going both ways. An example: A vapid ex-sorority girl informed me there were more women than men at the college she attended, so if a girl wanted to be popular, she had to put out. Her body was currency casually and freely spent for the popularity she craved. She was being used, sure, but she considered it a fair exchange.
Heh, I know exactly what you are talking about.
I suppose it's possible to be both heroic and taken advantage of, but still I have to admit I was inwardly proud of Arilyn when she ceremoniously crumbled the invitation to Evermeet up and threw it into her cup of wine (at the beginning of Silver Shadows I think), and was less proud of her when she pledged her service to the queen. I just feel that if you coldly reject a little girl who happens to be your grandchild, who just lost her mother, then servitude is the least you deserve from her.
But then again, it's possible Charles is correct here in saying that Arilyn is really more independant from the queen than she may first appear to be. |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 08 Jan 2007 : 23:17:34
I have no doubt the Seldarine let half-elves into Heaven but I can't imagine with priests like that most half-elves don't end up worshiping Miekkli.
|
| ElaineCunningham |
Posted - 08 Jan 2007 : 23:16:04
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Is that heroic, or is it just being taken advantage of?
A reasonable question. It seems to me that the difference is in the mind and character of the person in question.
Does a person do good because he wishes to be lauded, thanked, thought well of, included in a group, immortalized in song and story? If so, would he stop if the accolades and rewards stopped? If not, WHY not?
Some people see themselves as underdogs or even martyrs, and put themselves in situations that reenforce their perceptions of self. Some people know they're being taken, but feel for one reason or another that they have no other options. Other might be too stupid, or ambitious, or lust-driven or [insert adjective here] to notice. Others might be aware they're being used, but regard the situation as a tranaction of sorts with gains going both ways. An example: A vapid ex-sorority girl informed me there were more women than men at the college she attended, so if a girl wanted to be popular, she had to put out. Her body was currency casually and freely spent for the popularity she craved. She was being used, sure, but she considered it a fair exchange.
There are two lines in Silver Shadows that sum up what I think is at the core of Arilyn's philosophy--if indeed "philosophy" is a term applicable to someone who deals so little in introspection. She'd relinquished her moonblade to a former wielder; she knows that reclaiming it could result in her death. Unlike the full-blooded elves, whose "essence" lingers in the sword, she has no confidence that Arvandor awaits her. For all she knows, her half-elven soul could be stuck in a sort of limbo, like a genie in a bottle. But there's a battle raging around her; elves are fighting and dying. Arilyn's introspection/response are as follows:
Instant death, or eternal servitude.
Arilyn stooped and picked up the blade.
|
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 08 Jan 2007 : 23:14:16
Well that sentence bugged me for entirely different reasons actually. The Moon Elves actually DID put the screws to the Gold Elf lineage by more or less seizing the monarchy away from them. It was all done by divine fiat but for a race that seems to pride itself on being the nobility of the Elves, they haven't been involved in any monarchy activities for a very long time now.
As for Arilyn, I think their relationship is prevented from being "taken advantage of" by the fact that I think Miss Moonblade really thinks very little of Queen Amlaruil Moonflower. Everyone in Evermeet loves her but while Arilyn seems to respect her as a monarch, she has no loyalty to her as a family member. A less well written character would be angry about it or seeking approval but in the end...Arilyn and Amlaruil have this amusing little impasse.
Arilyn is a hero because of who she is and doesn't need the Queen's approval. That actually has to sting Amlaruil's royal dignity. The one person whom looks squarely at her and doesn't have to say that her decision was cowardly, base, and while politically "correct" still an act of monstrous emotional cruelty.
At present, Arilyn is one of the only three members of her family left alive (her prolific childbearing years being annihilated by the man that raised Arilyn when no one else would). I honestly would love to see Elaine write Ammnestria's other daughter finding out that her grandmother handed her half-sister over to the Elves' greatest living enemy in Kymil and disown her.
While she doesn't deserve anything but praise as a Queen, it'd only be justice for what a horrible elf when she abandoned her grandchild. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 08 Jan 2007 : 22:56:40
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
Now, Arilyn is not paladin material. Ironically, I think she's pretty close to how they normally exist in my conception. She's a character that continues to fight for the Elven Gods and People (along with all races everywhere) despite the fact that she's pretty much loathed universally by them. That kind of devotion and nobility is the heart of a hero and resounds with us because we'd like to think we could set aside our own disgust at bad treatment in order to help others who need it.
That's a very good point, and worth considering. Still, it's one thing to help others who need it, and another to pledge yourself to a queen--who is a family member no less--who rejects you, and has since childhood, and still refers to you as a "bastard". Not saying I disagree with you entirely, but I wonder...
Is that heroic, or is it just being taken advantage of?
quote:
Certainly, Kymil probably despises human beings but they're not the focus of his rage and hatred. That's reserved for another inoffensive race that never really did anything to him in Moon Elves.
I just want to point out that it probably isn't accurate to say that moon elves (or humans, or any "goodly race" for that matter) are "inoffensive". To me, that word implies harmlessness. |
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