| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Ergdusch |
Posted - 15 Nov 2006 : 09:50:35
Dear fellow scribes!
Beforehand I want to point out that this thread shall ONLY answer my question. It is NOT my intention to discuss the novel itself in length. Please keep that in mind. Thanks.
So now to my question:
As it was stated on page 1 of the book by the author himself, the novel takes place in the Year of Wild Magic 1372 DR. However, I wonder how many hours, days, weeks or month Elminster has to endure the torments of his capturer?
Any ideas? |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| mavericace |
Posted - 09 Feb 2007 : 03:36:24
Well looks like I have something to look forward to lol. Halaster Blackcloak has always been a very interesting chacter to me. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 08 Feb 2007 : 23:22:37
I don't know... I didn't really think that much of it. 
...
...
...
...
I'm kidding, of course! 
'Twas probably one of the most enjoyable scenes I've ever read in Realms fiction.
|
| Kuje |
Posted - 08 Feb 2007 : 22:55:21
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by mavericace
A bit off topic but related to this book. Is there any current information in regards to Halaster Blackcloak after this novel? I have yet to read many of the new FR books on the market so I am not sure if there is any mention of him but I was just curious as to his condition after the events of this book and up to the current time period.
Blackstaff has a scene with ole Hally. :)
Oh, and that scene was one of the best payoffs ever . . . 
Oh yeah, that was one of the best scenes in the entire book! 
Motion carried. :) |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 08 Feb 2007 : 21:02:00
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by mavericace
A bit off topic but related to this book. Is there any current information in regards to Halaster Blackcloak after this novel? I have yet to read many of the new FR books on the market so I am not sure if there is any mention of him but I was just curious as to his condition after the events of this book and up to the current time period.
Blackstaff has a scene with ole Hally. :)
Oh, and that scene was one of the best payoffs ever . . .
Oh yeah, that was one of the best scenes in the entire book! |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 08 Feb 2007 : 20:04:12
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by mavericace
A bit off topic but related to this book. Is there any current information in regards to Halaster Blackcloak after this novel? I have yet to read many of the new FR books on the market so I am not sure if there is any mention of him but I was just curious as to his condition after the events of this book and up to the current time period.
Blackstaff has a scene with ole Hally. :)
Oh, and that scene was one of the best payoffs ever . . . |
| Kuje |
Posted - 08 Feb 2007 : 16:21:05
quote:
Originally posted by mavericace
A bit off topic but related to this book. Is there any current information in regards to Halaster Blackcloak after this novel? I have yet to read many of the new FR books on the market so I am not sure if there is any mention of him but I was just curious as to his condition after the events of this book and up to the current time period.
Blackstaff has a scene with ole Hally. :) |
| mavericace |
Posted - 08 Feb 2007 : 08:44:45
A bit off topic but related to this book. Is there any current information in regards to Halaster Blackcloak after this novel? I have yet to read many of the new FR books on the market so I am not sure if there is any mention of him but I was just curious as to his condition after the events of this book and up to the current time period. |
| Zaknafein |
Posted - 26 Jan 2007 : 04:19:25
This was one of the most unique books I have ever read...and yeah I always thought about how long he was held captive but never knew where to look to find the answers |
| Shandar The Ashen |
Posted - 26 Jan 2007 : 02:49:46
This is less a question about how long El was in Hell, and more about when he was in Hell. I know he was there in 1372 DR, but can anyone tell me if the Hell he was in was Pre Reckoning or Post Reckoning?
I'm trying to nail down when in Dale Reckoning the Reckoning of Hell occured (as per {Paladin in Hell module and the Guide to Hell 2E sourcebook)
Can anyone help with a date for when Mammon became a Geryon wannabe and Baazebul turned into a slime spitting slug?
Thanks in advance
Shandar |
| Chataro |
Posted - 17 Dec 2006 : 11:30:39
Whats his excuse this time? He is feeling vulnerable? |
| Faraer |
Posted - 14 Dec 2006 : 15:22:29
No, other direction. (He is retired.) |
| Chataro |
Posted - 14 Dec 2006 : 13:20:05
I was just wondering, now that elminster lost some of his memories. Was it more likely that he is now more energetic?
he used to complain about retiring because of having too many bad memories. Now since many of them are gone, any chance of him being more active? |
| Ergdusch |
Posted - 05 Dec 2006 : 11:48:41
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
What... you didn't actually think all those memory fragments started as fragments, did you?
Well...  |
| Hoondatha |
Posted - 04 Dec 2006 : 20:35:10
Probably, knowing Ed, because his original draft was long by five or six chapters and it had to get trimmed back just to what was published.
What... you didn't actually think all those memory fragments started as fragments, did you? |
| Ergdusch |
Posted - 04 Dec 2006 : 07:26:46
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
A pleasure.
As for why a heal spell couldn't restore Elminster's sanity enough for him to "go on functioning normally," the reasons are these, according to Ed:
With the death of Mystra, much of her root memories survive in two entities: Elminster and Azuth (and some are held only by Azuth, whereas others are held only by Elminster). The dynamic nature of the Weave means its "anchors" are ever-changing, but must be numerous, and scores of Elminster's memories were among them.
So a heal spell couldn't fix him. It would be like trying to pull a screwdriver out of a lug nut on a fast-spinning car wheel, whilst racing the car at high speeds, to try to tighten ANOTHER lug nut on the same wheel. Bootstrapping, in other words.
What was needed instead was loving fellow Chosen "walking the pathways of El's mind" with him, stitching here and refocussing there, knitting it all back together.
So saith Ed. Make sense, fellow scribes?
love,
THO
It does make sense, and of course adds to the drama as well. However, I wonder: Why did not all this information about Elminsters recovery and all appear in the book, like an 'Epilogue' sort of thing?
Ergdusch *musing* |
| Purple Dragon Knight |
Posted - 04 Dec 2006 : 06:45:34
I was about to say that yes, Mystra can no doubt stitch someone back up instantly after such a devil-induced ordeal, and that Elminster's memory loss is perhaps due to a greater problem here, such as him becoming too old to 'hold it together.' Perhaps the devil's actions, and the very difficult healing afterwards, just gave us a glimpse as to what a senile Elminster could become. Perhaps this is a wake-up call to some of the Chosen, who must perhaps start to formulate a plan for El's retirement, a contingency/emergency preparedness of sorts. I dread to see how dark the Realms could become with an instable Elminster on the loose...  My guess is that El is way too honorable to succumb to the temptations of 'carrying on no matter what' or to a 'fear of dying.' If given the choice, he would probably choose 'planned death' to 'pain and death to his friends.'
I love THO's explanation much better though!  |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 03 Dec 2006 : 23:01:08
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
A pleasure.
As for why a heal spell couldn't restore Elminster's sanity enough for him to "go on functioning normally," the reasons are these, according to Ed:
With the death of Mystra, much of her root memories survive in two entities: Elminster and Azuth (and some are held only by Azuth, whereas others are held only by Elminster). The dynamic nature of the Weave means its "anchors" are ever-changing, but must be numerous, and scores of Elminster's memories were among them.
So a heal spell couldn't fix him. It would be like trying to pull a screwdriver out of a lug nut on a fast-spinning car wheel, whilst racing the car at high speeds, to try to tighten ANOTHER lug nut on the same wheel. Bootstrapping, in other words.
What was needed instead was loving fellow Chosen "walking the pathways of El's mind" with him, stitching here and refocussing there, knitting it all back together.
So saith Ed. Make sense, fellow scribes?
love,
THO
Yes...and it definitely makes for a more interesting story. |
| Wandering_mage |
Posted - 03 Dec 2006 : 16:47:19
I loved this book. I just finished it and it was a great read! |
| The Hooded One |
Posted - 03 Dec 2006 : 16:01:16
A pleasure.
As for why a heal spell couldn't restore Elminster's sanity enough for him to "go on functioning normally," the reasons are these, according to Ed:
With the death of Mystra, much of her root memories survive in two entities: Elminster and Azuth (and some are held only by Azuth, whereas others are held only by Elminster). The dynamic nature of the Weave means its "anchors" are ever-changing, but must be numerous, and scores of Elminster's memories were among them.
So a heal spell couldn't fix him. It would be like trying to pull a screwdriver out of a lug nut on a fast-spinning car wheel, whilst racing the car at high speeds, to try to tighten ANOTHER lug nut on the same wheel. Bootstrapping, in other words.
What was needed instead was loving fellow Chosen "walking the pathways of El's mind" with him, stitching here and refocussing there, knitting it all back together.
So saith Ed. Make sense, fellow scribes?
love,
THO |
| Ergdusch |
Posted - 03 Dec 2006 : 12:20:38
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Yes, it was Ed, Crust. Trust me.
And yes, you're right: about a week. Eight or nine days (I think Ed once said "bits of nine days, if you include all the scenes").
Ergdusch, does that cover it?
love,
THO
It does indeed. Thanks for chimming in on this THO.
Ergdusch
|
| Faraer |
Posted - 01 Dec 2006 : 01:01:34
Magic routinely (for the rich and high-level) curing mental harm is far too easy for drama, interesting characters, and the Realms as I know it. Either the spell as written doesn't exactly apply in the Realms, or there are major undisclosed reasons why it often isn't used (I favour the former). |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 01 Dec 2006 : 00:41:25
Remember though that emotional pain can promote personal growth and learning. Not saying I disagree with anyone here, just saying that I like the idea of Elminster coming away from the experience having...learned something, perhaps? |
| The Simbul |
Posted - 30 Nov 2006 : 22:44:02
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
All the physical healing in the world won't affect what's been done to a person psychologically.
Well..except that a simple heal spell removes all physical and mental (psychological) harm. If heal can undo feeblemind, insanity, or a dozen other magical ailments, then I am sure things like like miracle or Alter Reality or any of the other powers Mystra can call upon at will would trump whatever spellcraft was worked upon Elminster by an exiledArchdevil who was slain (twice) by the Simbul.
The reasons for why Elminster was gone and subsequently out of commission for much of the opening DR years of 3E wasnt intended to make sense...it was intended to explain Elminster out of the story so the Netherese Shadow Weave bad guys could be inserted into the campaign setting and safely rooted there without impediment. |
| The Hooded One |
Posted - 25 Nov 2006 : 16:19:58
Yes, it was Ed, Crust. Trust me.
And yes, you're right: about a week. Eight or nine days (I think Ed once said "bits of nine days, if you include all the scenes").
Ergdusch, does that cover it?
love,
THO |
| Crust |
Posted - 24 Nov 2006 : 22:54:16
Good memory, Faraer! I do remember that response, but I was under the impression that he might have cut/pasted that from some other existing text, rather than get all into that as a casual response to my question.
I also remember feeling very privileged to get a response from him (if it actually was him). I was somewhat star-struck. 
Anyway, Ergdusch, judging from the novel, I would guess that El was trapped in Avernus for about one week, perhaps less (contradicting my previous post, but I stand by this). I didn't notice any hints at long periods of time elapsing during El's encounter with Nergal. Correct me if I'm wrong.
|
| Faraer |
Posted - 22 Nov 2006 : 18:31:59
And the loss of memories that make you what you are may be worse than the mind-rape.
The link is from a reply Ed made to a question from Crust on the rasalvatore.com boards (which I recommend you avoid unless you think moderators should reply to helpful, informed posts with ad hominem insults). |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 22 Nov 2006 : 17:53:18
All the physical healing in the world won't affect what's been done to a person psychologically. |
| Chataro |
Posted - 22 Nov 2006 : 15:51:04
I thought mystra healed elminster back to almost full strength immediately? |
| Ergdusch |
Posted - 22 Nov 2006 : 11:20:55
quote:
Originally posted by sparhawk42
This link has some information about when the events in Elminster in Hell end, how long it took him to recover and such. Hope it helps out.
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Castle/2566/ed-elwhere.htm
Thanks for the link. It does provide the answer it seems, to how long Elminster is not actively involved in the ongoing dealings and political affairs on Fearun, as in Ed's article is stated:
'So regarding Elminster's whereabouts, we're left with almost all of 1372 and the first few months of 1373 to account for, and for almost all of that time he would indeed be absent from Shadowdale.'
However, it still leaves the question open, as to how long he actually remained in hell!
*continuing the research* Ergdusch
|
| Ergdusch |
Posted - 22 Nov 2006 : 11:15:36
I answered the question myself by following the only link provided on that page to the main pages from the sages where it reads:
'From time to time, Ed Greenwood and others weigh in on various discussions on the Forgotten Realms Mailing List, clarifying points of Realmslore and other errata. Gathered below are some of their answers and speculations. Minor changes have been made to correct spelling and protect the identities of the innocent :-).'
All said. |
