| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| old man |
Posted - 25 Oct 2006 : 23:59:35
I picked it up last night, and finished this morning (I had the day off.) Anyone want to talk about it yet?
Mod Edit: Added the spoiler tag. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| BEAST |
Posted - 03 Jun 2010 : 17:13:23
quote:
Originally posted by Zireael
I heard a rumor that Calihye was pregnant in this book. Having just read it, I think her behaviour would confirm it... bursting into tears unexpectedly, trying to stab Artemis and starting to cry again... but there's nothing else. Your thoughts?
Perhaps, but I don't think so. Knellict got a hold of her and brainwashed her into going off on Entreri.
It is partially because of [this] that Jarlaxle and Co. later went off on Knellict and wiped out most of his soldiers. |
| Zireael |
Posted - 03 Jun 2010 : 11:07:44
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
The Road of the Patriarch review
<snip>
I would also like to add that Calihye is a bit of a problem for me because I never bought the Artemis/Calihye romance. She never seemed a fully realized character and certainly not in Artemis' league. I never got what he saw in her and honestly felt like he would have done better with Gareth's evil niece (of course Jarlaxle got there first)
<snip>
I heard a rumor that Calihye was pregnant in this book. Having just read it, I think her behaviour would confirm it... bursting into tears unexpectedly, trying to stab Artemis and starting to cry again... but there's nothing else. Your thoughts? |
| RileyWhitson |
Posted - 10 Jan 2008 : 09:33:56
Okay, so you know how they talk about Sir Liam of Halfling Downs? The knight who vanished? I just re-read the book, and I realized he's Liam Woodgate from Spine of the World. How awesome. |
| Lady Fellshot |
Posted - 30 Sep 2007 : 04:34:30
There is "The Third Level" in Realms of Infamy if you wish more on early Entreri. As far as I know, there isn't anything else in canon. But, hey, what do I know, maybe there's something else. |
| Brynweir |
Posted - 30 Sep 2007 : 04:10:19
I know my post is late as well, but I just finished this one two weeks ago.
I have to say that I loved it.
I also think there was quite a leap from the non-confrontation with Gareth to Artemis going back to Calimport to face his past, however, I think that this action was foreshadowed well by the use of the flute.
Artemis begins to look inward and examine himself. He begins to look for reasons why he is the cold, emotionless killer that he is. When he begins to realize that his new outlook is partly due to Jarlaxle's influence, I think that he has no choice but to 360 because he does not want anyone else to have a hand in who he is going to be. He has been manipulated his entire life and he's sick of it. He is going to take control of his life even if it means doing the opposite of what he wants to do just for spite.
And no - I do not think that this is the last we will see of Artemis (or Jarlaxle for that matter). I think that this novel set up a new beginning for him.
I also liked this book because it had a stronger sense of character than hack and slash. I admit that I sometimes skip over the paragraphs containing the fights and just check to see who won. I am much more into examining the characters than the fighting styles.
Quick question - I have only read about 1/4 of the FR novels. Are there novels detailing Artemis' life before he encounters Drizzt?
(Must...Know...More) |
| Lady Fellshot |
Posted - 30 Sep 2007 : 01:38:31
An additional question:
When will we see Jalaxle and Bregan D'Aerthe again (not a prequel)? *makes big starry eyes*
|
| Ergdusch |
Posted - 27 Sep 2007 : 09:46:08
Well, this discussion is way out of date and I am late in reading the novels, as always. therefore I will say only a few things:
1. I greatly enjoyed the book (esp. since the fighting scenes are limited to a neccissary minimum)!
2. Esp. the ending is intriguing and follows the over all plot of the novel. Not to be expected but enjoyable all the more, IMO.
3. I can only recomand this book to anyone intrested in reading about Artemis Entreri.
4. Lastly a question: Was this be last we'll have seen of Artemis? *wonder wonder* |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 05 Jan 2007 : 17:20:53
I do love that Jaraxle allowed Artemis to be King but named the kingdom after himself.
;-)
|
| Alisttair |
Posted - 05 Jan 2007 : 17:15:00
I'm going to have to post on here that I too wanted to see King Artemis the First of D'Aerth/Vaasa and have that show up in a future realms product. Ah well, great book nonetheless. |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 04 Jan 2007 : 00:31:26
Touche.
And I agree with Ed and Bob's statement.
Rarely do I let expectations hurt my enjoyment. This was one of the cases where it happened because there was so much build up for their epic confrontation that it just sort of fizzled out. So in this case, I feel somewhat justified in complaining about it.
I also stand corrected on the Blood Stone Modules. I just got used to the "An a nameless band of adventures completed X quest."
|
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 04 Jan 2007 : 00:29:52
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
I give R.A. Salvatore credit, for essentially creating a monarch and entourage whole cloth in order to steal the PC's victory in the Bloodstone modules......they come off as an interesting bunch of characters.
(My player characters had their most narrowest and cruelest adventure campaign in order to defeat that series. It was a running joke in our game that Gareth had snuck in behind their backs to become King)
And they weren't exactly created to "steal the victory" from the PCs, they were the pregenerated PCs. If you or your DM didn't want your PCs to be the "offcial" ones to complete the adventure, then they would be the default guys that did. They were no more created to "steal the victory" than the Heroes of the Lance were created to steal the glory in DragonLance. |
| Blueblade |
Posted - 04 Jan 2007 : 00:15:01
Charles, I happen to agree with most of what you've just posted about Road of the Patriarch.
But.
As Ed and Bob and two head editors that I can remember from panels (and a whole lot of newspaper people and profs I sat in front of, too) have said, one of the cardinal sins in book reviewing is "the author didn't write the book I wanted him to write."
Personal reactions to a book are just fine - - just don't call it a "review." Call it "My take on Road of the P" or something of the sort, please.
Otherwise, I find it hard to agree with your points, without remembering all those prof wagging their fingers.
 |
| Kuje |
Posted - 04 Jan 2007 : 00:10:54
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
I give R.A. Salvatore credit, for essentially creating a monarch and entourage whole cloth in order to steal the PC's victory in the Bloodstone modules......they come off as an interesting bunch of characters.
Ahem,
RAS didn't create the characters, nor did he write the original Bloodstone modules. He only wrote the Bloodstone sourcebook that added more to the 1e Bloodstone modules.
Douglas Niles and Michael Dobson and Ed Greenwood wrote the original modules. The first two game designers more then Ed, since Ed only helped out with the third module. |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 04 Jan 2007 : 00:05:06
I give R.A. Salvatore credit, for essentially creating a monarch and entourage whole cloth in order to steal the PC's victory in the Bloodstone modules......they come off as an interesting bunch of characters.
(My player characters had their most narrowest and cruelest adventure campaign in order to defeat that series. It was a running joke in our game that Gareth had snuck in behind their backs to become King)
|
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 03 Jan 2007 : 22:51:14
To be fair, Gareth does come to the realization that A&J's seizure of that castle was really no different or less valid then the way he acquires land and power, other than his probable claim of doing it "with good intentions". |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 03 Jan 2007 : 02:46:58
I also think that Artemis killing Gareth would have been a long shot. I do think we could have seen Artemis and Jarlaxle do some serious damage to his Royal Highness though. Killing Olwen would have been a good start and maybe some more of his entourage (or perhaps his Queen-there's only one thing worse than a couple that refuses to get together and that's a happy couple that has). The complete lack of anything happening to his armies also ticked me off.
But yes, if Gareth had died then Artemis would have made a more interesting addition to the political figures of the Realms. A political marriage with Regent Allusair!
Haha. Just kidding.
Jarlaxle and Artemis weren't utterly spanked by Gareth and his newcommers but they sure as hell didn't make much of an impression in their short time in Bloodstone. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 02 Jan 2007 : 23:41:03
'S OK. I'm not pro-death, but I am pro-"knock heroes off their pedestals a bit". :) |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 02 Jan 2007 : 23:35:24
Sorry RF, I was quoting you and Charles in one shot, and Charles did mentioned killing off Gareth . . . didn't mean to imply that you had said that specifically. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 02 Jan 2007 : 23:29:42
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
And without adding anything deeply philosophical to this discussion, killing off Gareth was never going to happen, since he appears in the Year of Rogue Dragons books.
I didn't say anything about killing him.
You don't need to kill off Gareth for Artemis to be the first king of Vaasa, since Gareth himself isn't king of Vaasa yet. If he was, why would he be trying so hard to tame it? Gareth doesn't want someone else to have the land he so desperately wants, which was part of the point of that subplot. |
| yargarth |
Posted - 02 Jan 2007 : 04:51:53
i think that if he ended it where they were exilied and thought of another book for artemis That it would be much better. The whole end part with artemis and his mom and "dad" seemed forced and not really a smooth transition |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 02 Jan 2007 : 03:59:48
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
I *WANTED* to see Artemis Enteri the First King of Vaasa.
I kind of did too. The thing about Gareth is, he is technically a good guy, but all too often the writing in this book (and other works having to do with him) turns into a barefaced hero-worshiping lovefest, and that is something that almost always annoys me, especially in regards to rulers. I don't think I've ever read about a ruler who didn't love the idea of having more power, and this book didn't show Gareth to be an exception to that.
And without adding anything deeply philosophical to this discussion, killing off Gareth was never going to happen, since he appears in the Year of Rogue Dragons books. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 02 Jan 2007 : 02:08:51
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
I *WANTED* to see Artemis Enteri the First King of Vaasa.
I kind of did too. The thing about Gareth is, he is technically a good guy, but all too often the writing in this book (and other works having to do with him) turns into a barefaced hero-worshiping lovefest, and that is something that almost always annoys me, especially in regards to rulers. I don't think I've ever read about a ruler who didn't love the idea of having more power, and this book didn't show Gareth to be an exception to that. |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 31 Dec 2006 : 18:48:36
The Road of the Patriarch review
I'm not sure whether I really like this book or not. At heart, what bugs me about the book is the fact that it veers in directions that are unexpected but also not entirely satisfying to me. While I appreciate surprise, there's also a good deal of feeling cheated.
The biggest boon to the book is the fact that we see Artemis Entreri in rare form. Artemis kicks ass and takes names through much of the book with his defeat of Olwen only marred by the fact that he didn't kill him. The character handles many things in the book that are interesting and fascinating character pieces. The sexual abuse that Artemis suffered as a child isn't a comfortable topic for a fantasy novel but some much needed revenge was finally dealt out (and again, he should have killed his adoptive father).
At the end of the book though, Artemis has achieved regression rather than character growth. R.A. failed in this respect because Artemis isn't dead. He's back to square one since he was a dead man before he left Pasha Pooka's service. The only change is the assumption that he may no longer be a killer but I don't think that's the case either. An emotionally dead killer is what Artemis STARTED as.
Frankly, one has to wonder why the events at the Temple even matter to him either. It's the problem of the fact R.A. never actually gets into Artemis' head. I think Artemis needs a freaking journal oddly enough. The only time we ever get his unvarnished opinions is when he rips into Gareth and that was pretty satisfying.
Jarlaxle I don't mind screwing up but the problem of the book is the fact that he pretty much is depicted out of his depth for most of the book. I didn't mind this, its good to challenge him, but I resented that so very little was actually accomplished by him. I *WANTED* to see Artemis Enteri the First King of Vaasa.
This is the problem with the book I have the most. Gareth needed an ass kicking. Yes, he's a wonderful monarch and a lovely guy but they should have killed him. Killed him, his entire family, and probably a few others before its over. It would have been a great deal more interesting as a story and also made the situation in Vaasa/Damara more interesting.
At heart, Artemis never wanted to be King but he's the only man I think that might actually make a spectacular one by ruling least. By unknowingly touching on the racism, religious fanaticism, and classism inherent in most fantasy....Gareth is a monster even if he doesn't realize it and is the best of them. At least, I wanted some affirmation that he realized he was triffling with death itself.
I felt a bit cheated that the most damage they'd done to Damara was leaving a few hundred kobolds dead. A much more satisfying ending would have been Jarlaxle actually leading out his legions to slaughter the forces of good and....knowing it'll do nothing....just have them do it to make his reputation. A nice way to remind us that our "hero" is an evil bastarve and we can be happy with that.
I also felt the book changed too much in its sudden swerve to the corrupt clergy of Selune. Part of this story made me uncomfortable because it boils down to the fact that Artemis Enteri's past pretty much didn't make him a man deluded about the good in the world. In Calimport, it seems every single one of his observations is true. The city is as much a moral blackhole as Menzoberrazan. I don't mind an evil Selune clergy anyway. The girl is busy with all of her stuff and stopping one temple is problematic enough without Shar's folk killing their folk left and right. This is Calimport after all where the King worships CYRIC for Ao's sakes.
I did like the subplot though even if it felt like an utterly different book. Sort of like the Scouring of the Shire except not even that vague connection to the storyline.
I would also like to add that Calihye is a bit of a problem for me because I never bought the Artemis/Calihye romance. She never seemed a fully realized character and certainly not in Artemis' league. I never got what he saw in her and honestly felt like he would have done better with Gareth's evil niece (of course Jarlaxle got there first)
I'm still going to give the book an eight out of ten swords for its skill in craftsmanship. It's the most enjoyable book I've read since the first one in the series and blows the Hunter's Blades trilogy out of the water. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 28 Dec 2006 : 23:40:41
quote:
Originally posted by Crust
Not that I wanted more combat. In fact, I have difficulty following the moment-to-moment duels in these books. Swords turning over and under blades, hips shifting, patterns rolling in and out, etc. etc... I get lost sometimes.
Yep, me too. That's why I was grateful that the novel didn't contain those battles you mentioned...because let's be honest--RAS would likely have written them just as you stated: so very highly detailed that readers like me just become lost in the text and/or bored. |
| Crust |
Posted - 28 Dec 2006 : 01:02:12
Not that I wanted more combat. In fact, I have difficulty following the moment-to-moment duels in these books. Swords turning over and under blades, hips shifting, patterns rolling in and out, etc. etc... I get lost sometimes (though I thought the Olwen/Entreri duel was great). I just wanted to see more of the Spysong gang. The last 25% of the novel could have continued with those heroes, whether through a longer siege battle (which would have been epic and very cool), through the continuing antics of Jarlaxle and Kimmuriel, or Olwen's desire to avenge Mariabronne.
|
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 27 Dec 2006 : 22:28:06
quote:
Originally posted by Crust I anticipated a long siege battle where heroes fought and died, gargoyles and undead, with the black dracolich taking the field, forcing the heroes to really show their stuff. I wanted to see Gareth himself step before Entreri in single combat. I wanted Kane to fight a dozen drow elf fighters. I wanted more resolution concerning Olwen and Mariabronne.
Wow, I guess we like different stuff in novels. I liked this novel too...but I actually felt it benefited from less combat and more conversations/intrigue. |
| Crust |
Posted - 27 Dec 2006 : 20:48:07
I had to put this one on hold, but I finally finished it.
Definitely a page-turner. The build up between Gareth's crew and Entreri/Jarlaxle was incredible. The dragons claiming Kane is the most dangerous man in the land. Very exciting. The team of high-level heroes was also very cool. And the battle between Olwen and Entreri was long-anticipated. I was waiting and waiting for someone to cross swords.
I thought Thibbledorf was filthy and crazy enough, but Athrogate is the most offensive barrel of destruction I've ever seen. It annoys me that his flails are called morningstars, but the same mistake was made in Castlevania: Simon's Quest, so I make exception. 
I really appreciated Entreri's personal journey and ultimate resolution concerning his mother and father, though I would have preferred that happen in another novel. The shift from Vassa to Calimshan was rushed and unexpected.
I didn't understand how Gareth could knight a man who he knew was evil. I'm not saying RAS had to quote the PHB, but would a 25 HD paladin ever knight a man with evil in his heart?
I wanted to see more with Spysong. I anticipated a long siege battle where heroes fought and died, gargoyles and undead, with the black dracolich taking the field, forcing the heroes to really show their stuff. I wanted to see Gareth himself step before Entreri in single combat. I wanted Kane to fight a dozen drow elf fighters. I wanted more resolution concerning Olwen and Mariabronne.
Ultimately, it was a let down when the story shifted to Calimshan. I suppose if Entreri and co. stayed, they'd be killed, but I wanted more there.
I was also perplexed that clerics of Selune could conduct such business for 40+ years without being challenged by other clerics from other lands. That seemed strange.
All in all a great novel. I enjoyed it. |
| ShadowJack |
Posted - 07 Dec 2006 : 20:55:31
That was mostly what I was thinking when I read this. These priests created the very situation/person that would lead to their destruction... It is poetic justice, killed by their own blood so to speak... |
| Caolin |
Posted - 07 Dec 2006 : 20:20:46
quote:
Originally posted by darkcrow
It's not that I don't agree with you Rinonalyrna Fathomlin. To us humans it dosen't make sense why a Chaoticly Good aligned Goddess like Selune would let such corruption go unnoticed. You would think Selune would not grant them any priestly spells if not vengfully destroying them herself. But that's not the case in this story. For some Godly reason none of that happened. Instead they continued to steal the innocence of young girls and from the rest of the poor they stoled there very last copper. I'm trying to think of something, anything that can be called "The Reasoning of Selune". I don't want to think one of my Favorite authors made a boo boo. It COULD be a subconscious relationship refering to the dealing of Christianity and Selune Temple corruption. See, Christianity is seen as a Good aligned religion and sometime bad things happen inside the church. Like the things that happened in this book. Thats just my opinion. Lets think that if this never happened, that Artemis would never exsist.
I justified this whole part of the story by saying that Selune knew that Artimis would come destroy the church thus punishing them for their crimes. So in a sense Artimis acted out the will of Selune by proxy. |
| Kuje |
Posted - 07 Dec 2006 : 20:02:38
quote:
Originally posted by ShadowJack
Does anyone know if there has been any canon info o n this temple of Selune in Memnon? In a nutshell, does canon sources describe their activities, or is this R.A. Salvatore's creation. I do not have any sourcebooks with me right now...
The Protector's House is on the list of temples of the deities on Keep's main site, so it's been mentioned in canon before. Not sure what sourcebook has the mention though. |
