| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Horatio |
Posted - 06 Aug 2006 : 17:24:26
As I'm done reading Salvatore (I quit halfway through The Halfling's Gem), I'm still curious to know if Drizzt ever met again the female elven child he saved in "Homeland" (in the surface raid)?
...because I always imagined he did. Can anyone who read through the series let me know? |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 06 Jan 2007 : 00:13:34
Well you're right and I'm corrected.
Now for a new topic, don't they have frigging psychotherapy amongst the elves? Drop the little nutter on Evermeet.
|
| Kuje |
Posted - 06 Jan 2007 : 00:05:13
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
We learn in Passage to Dawn that Zak is "at peace"...that is, of course, assuming that Drizzt really was communicating with and/or receiving messages from the spirit of his dead father. We do NOT learn from that book that he's actually in Arvandor.
Exactly,
Now if someone claims that he is, I expect a quote. If you can't supply one, then you are making a statement that is false. However, Wooly asked to drop it. :) |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 05 Jan 2007 : 23:53:49
I stand corrected.
I suppose its' possible Zak was a hallucination or that Zak is cleaning the book cases in Kelemvor's realm.
My apologies Kuje.
|
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 05 Jan 2007 : 23:52:16
We learn in Passage to Dawn that Zak is "at peace"...that is, of course, assuming that Drizzt really was communicating with and/or receiving messages from the spirit of his dead father. We do NOT learn from that book that he's actually in Arvandor.
|
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 05 Jan 2007 : 23:45:29
My apologies Wooly.
I'll kick it down a few notches in future threads. I don't mean to be touchy and don't want to harm anyone's enjoyment of these wonderful boards.
And no, primarily because I'm going from Drizzt Do'Urden's visitation by Zaknafien in the end of Passage to Dawn. I'm a little surprised that this is controversial. It seemed fairly clear to me. I do recall that Bob was asked a similiar question in his "Q&A" thread over on the boards at his homepage. I could go look there if anyone wants me to or reask it for his Q&A thread there.
|
| The Sage |
Posted - 05 Jan 2007 : 23:41:51
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
Meh, R.A. has said that he's in Arvandor.
I've heard this before, at WotC. Though, when I've asked for confirmation on this, or at least RAS's post itself, posters have come up short.
Do you have RAS's quote for this?
|
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 05 Jan 2007 : 23:40:38
Enough.  |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 05 Jan 2007 : 23:26:24
Can you supply a quote that Drizzt do'urden defeated the Balor Errtu?
No?
Because you don't have to. It happened in the books. No need to be snarky about this Kuje. It's a matter of author intent and factuality in the books. The question isn't whether Zak is in Arvandor or not but whether he should be according to Realms cosmology.
Denying that he is on the other hand, is sort of silly don't you agree?
|
| Kuje |
Posted - 05 Jan 2007 : 22:52:56
So, you can't supply the quote? Figures. |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 05 Jan 2007 : 22:50:36
You mean, aside from Zak showing up in the book and saying "Hey! I'm alright!" |
| Kuje |
Posted - 05 Jan 2007 : 22:46:17
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
Meh, R.A. has said that he's in Arvandor.
Quote please. I won't believe you until you supply a quote that's dated and referenced. |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 05 Jan 2007 : 22:32:56
Meh, R.A. has said that he's in Arvandor.
Maybe Zak got a last minute "I pledge myself to the powers of the Surface elves that hate Lolth" before he hit the acid.
Frankly, I like that there might be exceptions to the appalling rules of the Afterlife.
|
| Weiser_Cain |
Posted - 05 Jan 2007 : 22:25:59
I think Zak would be faithless as I don't see how he'd have the opportunity to worship anyone but Lloth and he wasn't doing that.
|
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 05 Jan 2007 : 15:37:31
I'm inclined to think that there's the fact that Zak never worshiped Lolth to begin with so the idea he'd be False to her is pretty silly. He might have been faithless but we also know that Kelemvor allows some "post-death" changes as Adon shows. To that end, I imagine the Elven Gods claimed him.
Hard and fast rules for Forgotten Realms aren't how the world is portrayed in the books.
As for the Elven Child plotline, I honestly felt it didnt' work out very well because the girl was such an unlikeable little psycho. Plenty of people have suffered tremendous casualties and the idea that she'd go deliberately after the person who saved her life only marks her as an unlikeable nutter. I wish she'd been consigned to the Elvish version of Hell frankly.
|
| Ergdusch |
Posted - 15 Sep 2006 : 17:15:17
Thanks Dremvek - for I was almost going nuts over that - having read the books and all I could not have missed it.... |
| Dremvek |
Posted - 15 Sep 2006 : 15:36:02
It's in a short story in the Realms of the Elves anthology. |
| Ergdusch |
Posted - 15 Sep 2006 : 12:46:55
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
Oh yeah, after they contact her spirit and she tells him all is well....
Does anyone know in which book that happens? I just read the latest trilogy (Hunter's blades) and found no evidence of such an event..... |
| Aes Tryl |
Posted - 12 Aug 2006 : 06:52:32
Umm the fact that he killed the elven child but well yeah Zak was regretting his decision to not kill Drizzt before he was sent to the Academy, so the "killing of the elven child" kinda confirmed that he made a wrong choice |
| Mazrim_Taim |
Posted - 12 Aug 2006 : 06:43:08
He loved killing Drow a little too much to be good. He's neutral. And even evil people can feel compassion for their own kin, or even a companion. Just look at Sememmon and Ashemmi. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 12 Aug 2006 : 06:10:43
quote:
Originally posted by Aes Tryl
Well it was such a celebrated and recognised fact
What was?
quote:
and don't forget that he thought that drizzt had come out of the Academy a drow killer.
Big surprise, given that Drizzt probably would not have survived if it were any other way.
quote:
The fact that he thought he killed the elven child( not of his own blood) shows that he feels outraged by this, as any good person would have.
Yeah, but Zak wasn't merely outraged, he was ready to send Drizzt to the gods without so much as letting him explain what happened, first. |
| Aes Tryl |
Posted - 12 Aug 2006 : 05:57:21
Well it was such a celebrated and recognised fact and don't forget that he thought that drizzt had come out of the Academy a drow killer. The fact that he thought he killed the elven child( not of his own blood) shows that he feels outraged by this, as any good person would have. but on the whole Zak was most definately neutral |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 12 Aug 2006 : 05:50:23
quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan
Yeah.. Definitely neutral. Isolated cases of kindness/good (especially when one's own flesh and blood is the subject) certainly doesn't qualify one as "good" overall, I don't think. :)
I don't think so either. |
| GothicDan |
Posted - 12 Aug 2006 : 05:49:33
Yeah.. Definitely neutral. Isolated cases of kindness/good (especially when one's own flesh and blood is the subject) certainly doesn't qualify one as "good" overall, I don't think. :) |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 12 Aug 2006 : 05:48:46
quote:
Originally posted by Aes Tryl
Umm yeah i agree Zak hated Lolth and the best way of showing his defiance to this twisted city and its ideal was the kill the epitome of this, the priestesses. It was like his way of saying in your face LOLTH!! For me i think his better side is shown when he doesn't want Drizzt to go to the Academy and his anger at Drizzt when he thought he had killed the elven child
That's his better side? He was ready to kill Drizzt even before he knew all the facts (IIRC--it's been years since I read these books--he didn't even let Drizzt explain himself first). |
| Aes Tryl |
Posted - 12 Aug 2006 : 05:45:09
Umm yeah i agree Zak hated Lolth and the best way of showing his defiance to this twisted city and its ideal was the kill the epitome of this, the priestesses. It was like his way of saying in your face LOLTH!! For me i think his better side is shown when he doesn't want Drizzt to go to the Academy and his anger at Drizzt when he thought he had killed the elven child, rather than his vindictive killing of the priestesses( not that they didn't deserve it though) |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 12 Aug 2006 : 05:36:05
quote:
Originally posted by FridayThe13th
Still, there is a vigilante side to Zak, and he does believe in his onw perverted sense of justice, and not all of his actions are chaotic. Killing drow priestesses I think, is his way of "enforcing law". By killing them, he thinks he is making the world a safer place for surface people.
It seemed to me that Zak's zeal in killing drow priestesses came from his hatred, not out of any "higher ideal". |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 12 Aug 2006 : 05:34:39
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
quote:
Originally posted by Ethriel
Zak didn't go the wall...Drizzt had a dream of his ghost and Zak's shade told Drizzt he was at peace
Not necessarily, I would not put it Zak lying to ease Drizzt's mind.
I don't think Zak was lying, partly because of RAS's writing style. The general rule is happiness at the end--or at least peace--for Drizzt and his closest friends and loved ones.
|
| FridayThe13th |
Posted - 12 Aug 2006 : 05:23:23
Well, I don't think Zak has shown any indication of living by the philosophies of any god, he is just too free-spirited for that. Plus he did know about many gods( not just Lolth, he could have worshipped Elistraee or any of the other drow deities as well). So by all accounts of the definition he should end up at the wall.
However some faithless's actions in life can sometimes interest a deity so much that they will go to the wall and claim their soul. If you find Zaknaefin's fate too grim for such a great "hero", there is always a possibility that he has been claimed. |
| Kalin Agrivar |
Posted - 11 Aug 2006 : 20:05:58
I can't remember the official Forgotten Realms definitions but her goes (correct me if I am wrong on anything):
Basically in D&D, until 3rd Ed., when you died your soul passed through the Astral Plane (losing all your memories that is why the Astral is "the plane of thought" but a god can allow you to keep your memories) and entered the Outer Planes. If you were a devout worshipper of a god then you were reborn in the god’s realm as a divine petitioner. If you did not devote yourself to one god then you were reborn on the Outer Plane that most closely matched your current alignment (as in the alignment you were when you died, not the alignment you had in the past i.e. Redemption/Corruption) as a typical planar petitioner. Petitioners could then evolve into true planar beings. For both divine and typical petitioners if you do not evolve into a higher being you will slowly be purified by your god/alignment until you merge into your god or plane. And that is the end of the end as stated in AD&D.
As far as I know in the Forgotten Realms novel The Crucible the Fughe (sp?) plane/demiplane/pocket plane was introduced...basically the waiting room for souls that have just exited the Astral Plane. On the Fughe Plane your god or servant of your god would then pick you up and bring you to their Realm. These are the FAITHFUL
If you denied the existence of the gods (atheist), never believed in a god nor never prayed once to a god directly then you are a FAITHLESS and your punishment was nigh-eternal punishment as a brick in the living wall of souls surrounding the Realm of the Dead
If you betrayed your god or your faith (or jumped ship from god to god over your life) then you were the FALSE and were fed to the Night Serpent Dendar
And the average NPC (farmer, noble, merchant, whatever) usually doesn’t dedicate themselves to one god but honors all the gods equally as all the gods (good, neutral and evil) influence your life...either by supplicating for aid or for mercy. And when Joe-NPC died they either went with their most prayed-to god or to their matching Alignment Plane
Now my problem/question is this – with the new “Great Tree” cosmology of the Realms where does Joe-NPC goes if he was not devout to any one god in particular as it looks like there are no “Alignment Planes” as such left (yes, larvae appear in the Abyss, Hells, etc. but it’s not really the same)
And an extra observation, that scout that served Torm in the Crucible but had prayed mostly to Mask, thus his soul went to Mask and became Mask’s proxie
... |
| Aes Tryl |
Posted - 11 Aug 2006 : 19:34:49
Hmm ok i take your meaning on faithless but i guess in D&D and the realms, its pretty clearly defined |
