| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Sir Vengeance |
Posted - 19 Jul 2005 : 06:02:00
Greetings to all forum members, it seems that that there is growing support(even I support the idea) for Khelben fall from grace, hence I decided to post this topic. Rather than make it a poll to see how Khelben should fall or not, I decided not to make it a poll so everyone can freely express their ideas on how Khelben should fall and rise again. As a note, please, no offensive statements against the authors.
Thanks, and come, feel free to post your views. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Asgetrion |
Posted - 25 May 2006 : 22:04:51
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
I disagree that he's Waterdeep's best defense. There are many more archmages in that city, plus high level thieves, fighters, etc. One archmage isn't the cities best defense, Chosen or not.
As shown in City of Splendors  |
| Wandering_mage |
Posted - 22 May 2006 : 22:49:26
Though you used the words of the Sage Schend you posted so much info in one post that it was like reading a sourcebook for Faerun. You have my thanks for that posting and of course we all owe Steve Schend thanks for Khelben. Oh, and I apologize for my enthusiasim. I have recently become a diehard Khelben fan. I used to know nothing about him, but now hehe, well I like his style. He is a complex personality that has done so many things and yet he remains flexible and unpredictable. Plus I get a kick out of thinking about Khelben and Eliminster complaining about gout (or silly ailment that wise people of many years get) around a hearth.  Actually can they get something like that being chosen and all? |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 22 May 2006 : 15:34:04
quote:
Originally posted by Wandering_mage
Reading Wooly's past post of Khelben's timeline greatly informed me as to who, what, how, when, and all the rest on Khelben.
For the record, that was just a compilation of stuff from esteemed Sage Schend. |
| Wandering_mage |
Posted - 22 May 2006 : 15:16:51
Reading Wooly's past post of Khelben's timeline greatly informed me as to who, what, how, when, and all the rest on Khelben. After reading what Khelben did at the Silvergate I just was amazed. What he did there is why Khelben should be respected. And feared.  The event was just so cool that I can't get over it. Anyways, I will stop bothering you about it. I am spoiled as is with all the good lore floating around here. |
| Steven Schend |
Posted - 22 May 2006 : 13:16:40
quote:
Originally posted by Wandering_mage
It probably won't have Khelben's awesome stadoff at the Silver gate in it right? No problem though. I have no doubt that the book Blackstaff will rock!
It gets the briefest of mentions and flashbacks, but as I'd already laid out most of the expository detail on how that situation played out, it seemed pointless to do it narratively. <shrug>
Thanks again.
Steven |
| Wandering_mage |
Posted - 21 May 2006 : 23:55:12
It probably won't have Khelben's awesome stadoff at the Silver gate in it right? No problem though. I have no doubt that the book Blackstaff will rock! |
| Steven Schend |
Posted - 21 May 2006 : 23:08:06
quote:
Originally posted by Wandering_mage
I think Khelben is one of the best personalities in the Realms and Steve Schend has done an excellent job with keeping the mystery and excitement about the nameless chosen (now named). Khelben doesn't need a fall. He needs a book and Steve Schend is currently striving for just that. I've said it once and I'll say it again. I can not wait until the book Blackstaff comes out!!!!!!
Thanks very much for the kind words and moral support.
My striving on Blackstaff ended quite a few months back, so it's been agonizing waiting to see the book come out. Hope it's everything y'all are hoping for and then some.
Steven |
| Wandering_mage |
Posted - 21 May 2006 : 02:16:42
It would also appear I am a little late on the discussion. |
| Wandering_mage |
Posted - 21 May 2006 : 02:15:04
I think Khelben is one of the best personalities in the Realms and Steve Schend has done an excellent job with keeping the mystery and excitement about the nameless chosen (now named). Khelben doesn't need a fall. He needs a book and Steve Schend is currently striving for just that. I've said it once and I'll say it again. I can not wait until the book Blackstaff comes out!!!!!!
|
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 26 Sep 2005 : 19:55:12
quote:
Originally posted by DrJackal
Hasn't Khelben, in a way, already fallen with the schism in the Harpers?
I don't think so, because being an ex-Harper doesn't suddenly make one a bad person (in my opinion it doesn't). I don't think of the Moonstars as being "less good" than the Harpers just, well, different.
Neither is better than the other, they are just different. :) |
| DrJackal |
Posted - 24 Sep 2005 : 17:04:07
So the whole internal shake-up of the Harpers went dormant? And Piergeiron's comment about not being able to trust the Harpers anymore in Thornhold? Dang. I like political shakes-up and intrigue in my sf & fantasy. If only WotC would approach C.J. Cherryh about writing a Realms novel. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 23 Sep 2005 : 17:09:21
quote:
Originally posted by DrJackal
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
[
On Wooly's point (thanks, man, for mentioning that), only about 9-12 people TOTAL know exactly what Khelben did re: the scepter.
Who said the "something questionable" had to be What Really Happened?
But the Harpers as an organization know about the schism, even if they don't know about the scepter, correct? (Wasn't there something about internal investigations after Khelben's move with the scepter was revealed to make sure there weren't any more "bad eggs" mentioned in Cloak & Dagger?) Harpers or not, people are people; if there's any talk about 'choosing sides', speculations for reason as to why this is happening follow. All it takes is for one idea to sound more plausible than the others, and someone's the proud parent of a bouncy baby rumor.
Yeah, but most people who know of Khelben know that he generally acts in the best interests of others. And several big name Harpers jumped ship to join Khelben. Presented with those facts, most people will assume it's more along the lines of an internal power struggle, instead of thinking Khelben went bad. |
| DrJackal |
Posted - 23 Sep 2005 : 15:02:14
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
[
On Wooly's point (thanks, man, for mentioning that), only about 9-12 people TOTAL know exactly what Khelben did re: the scepter.
Who said the "something questionable" had to be What Really Happened?
But the Harpers as an organization know about the schism, even if they don't know about the scepter, correct? (Wasn't there something about internal investigations after Khelben's move with the scepter was revealed to make sure there weren't any more "bad eggs" mentioned in Cloak & Dagger?) Harpers or not, people are people; if there's any talk about 'choosing sides', speculations for reason as to why this is happening follow. All it takes is for one idea to sound more plausible than the others, and someone's the proud parent of a bouncy baby rumor.
|
| Lameth |
Posted - 22 Sep 2005 : 21:09:15
quote:
Would you admit that a founding member of your organization stole a very powerful artifact and handed it over to someone your organization opposes?
Hey...I would grab another very powerful artifact and let it slip into my own pocket  |
| Steven Schend |
Posted - 22 Sep 2005 : 01:01:30
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by DrJackal
Hasn't Khelben, in a way, already fallen with the schism in the Harpers?
I'd be interested in seeing how the "average Joe" in the FR reacts to Khelben post-schism. It's one thing for your colleagues to see you do something that can be understatedly called questionable; it's another for the public at large to hear about it.
But I doubt the public knows that much about it... I'd say that most people outside of the Harpers don't really know -- or care -- about the schism. Only Harpers and the most informed people are going to know what Khelben did. And it's not something the Harpers would tell people, I don't think... Would you admit that a founding member of your organization stole a very powerful artifact and handed it over to someone your organization opposes?
On Wooly's point (thanks, man, for mentioning that), only about 9-12 people TOTAL know exactly what Khelben did re: the scepter. Only 2 might profit from letting others know about it publicly...except for the fact that they'd most likely be a pile of smoking bones in the time it takes to utter the information from various people wishing to keep this quiet. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 22 Sep 2005 : 00:08:04
quote:
Originally posted by DrJackal
Hasn't Khelben, in a way, already fallen with the schism in the Harpers?
I'd be interested in seeing how the "average Joe" in the FR reacts to Khelben post-schism. It's one thing for your colleagues to see you do something that can be understatedly called questionable; it's another for the public at large to hear about it.
But I doubt the public knows that much about it... I'd say that most people outside of the Harpers don't really know -- or care -- about the schism. Only Harpers and the most informed people are going to know what Khelben did. And it's not something the Harpers would tell people, I don't think... Would you admit that a founding member of your organization stole a very powerful artifact and handed it over to someone your organization opposes? |
| DrJackal |
Posted - 21 Sep 2005 : 23:31:01
Hasn't Khelben, in a way, already fallen with the schism in the Harpers?
I'd be interested in seeing how the "average Joe" in the FR reacts to Khelben post-schism. It's one thing for your colleagues to see you do something that can be understatedly called questionable; it's another for the public at large to hear about it. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 20 Sep 2005 : 22:17:03
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Do I want to see Khelben "fall"?
Hell no! Unless it just means having him slip down the stairs every now and then. I love Khelben the way he is.
Besides, one character of mine (a former apprentice and current Moonstar) would be very disappointed if such a fall from grace were to occur. She would feel forced to chastise him.
Bad Blackstaff...no donut.
Or were your thoughts of chastisement more of the Lady Hooded's methods? 
Maybe. Or a dunce cap on the head.
Being a stalwart defender of all things "right" in the Realms, my character wouldn't just stand by and let Khelben go crazy! Only the gods would know if her efforts wouldn't end in a total disaster. :p |
| Crennen FaerieBane |
Posted - 15 Sep 2005 : 20:22:35
HAHA! That damnedable Khelben and his moonstars! Thank you Steven for that great insight. Ok, so, maybe Storm does have a bone to pick with Laeral for giving the Harpers a bad name!
(that's a joke)
C-Fb |
| Dart Ambermoon |
Posted - 15 Sep 2005 : 19:13:28
Have I mentioned at all that the fall of Hellgate Keep was actually among the first covert acts of Khelben's Tel'teukiira?
SES
Now why oh why am I not in the least surprised *smiles*
The Tel´teukiira were a brilliant idea in my eyes, to give the Harpers a mighty new spin...and Khelben the undisputed leadership which fits his character (and he deserves).
@topic
I think Khelben had and will have his share of "trials by fire", but I think his cool manner in dealing with most things is what really sets him apart from some of the other powerful NPC´s in Faerun, which is why I like him as he is. |
| khorne |
Posted - 15 Sep 2005 : 18:32:54
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
quote:
Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane
Oh, Wooly, I didn't mean like mad, "I'm coming to throw fireballs" mad, I meant exactly what you said - Storm being upset about the whole Harper schism. I didn't think the Sisters were going to disown one another, I just thought it would be neat to be around a dinner table after that happened... women get mad enough, it's even worse when they can toss silver fire around.
C-Fb
P.s. - Plus, the Moonstars tend to get into less trouble than the Harpers (remember Hellgate Keep).
Have I mentioned at all that the fall of Hellgate Keep was actually among the first covert acts of Khelben's Tel'teukiira?
SES
 (almost chokes to death and eventually recovers)Sometimes you`re so evil Steven that you would make a nycaloth say: "Isn`t that a bit much?" |
| Steven Schend |
Posted - 15 Sep 2005 : 18:21:29
quote:
Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane
Oh, Wooly, I didn't mean like mad, "I'm coming to throw fireballs" mad, I meant exactly what you said - Storm being upset about the whole Harper schism. I didn't think the Sisters were going to disown one another, I just thought it would be neat to be around a dinner table after that happened... women get mad enough, it's even worse when they can toss silver fire around.
C-Fb
P.s. - Plus, the Moonstars tend to get into less trouble than the Harpers (remember Hellgate Keep).
Have I mentioned at all that the fall of Hellgate Keep was actually among the first covert acts of Khelben's Tel'teukiira?
SES |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 15 Sep 2005 : 17:25:21
quote:
Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane
Oh, Wooly, I didn't mean like mad, "I'm coming to throw fireballs" mad, I meant exactly what you said - Storm being upset about the whole Harper schism. I didn't think the Sisters were going to disown one another, I just thought it would be neat to be around a dinner table after that happened... women get mad enough, it's even worse when they can toss silver fire around.
C-Fb
P.s. - Plus, the Moonstars tend to get into less trouble than the Harpers (remember Hellgate Keep).
Well, I think that whatever Elminster said, and the knowledge that Laeral is still working for the common good, will be enough to keep things amicable. There may be a "okay, tell me just what's going on, here" request, but I doubt there would be anything more than that.
I don't think Storm's reaction had all that much to do with Laeral, really. I think it was more the fact that Khelben had placed a powerful artifact in the hands of the Zhents -- the same guys that prove to be a constant annoyance for Dalefolk in general, and for Storm in particular. |
| Crennen FaerieBane |
Posted - 15 Sep 2005 : 14:45:15
Oh, Wooly, I didn't mean like mad, "I'm coming to throw fireballs" mad, I meant exactly what you said - Storm being upset about the whole Harper schism. I didn't think the Sisters were going to disown one another, I just thought it would be neat to be around a dinner table after that happened... women get mad enough, it's even worse when they can toss silver fire around.
C-Fb
P.s. - Plus, the Moonstars tend to get into less trouble than the Harpers (remember Hellgate Keep). |
| Killashandra |
Posted - 15 Sep 2005 : 12:59:24
Aaaaah, I'm so glad I read this, it was one of the things I was wondering about in my home campaign. I'm running in Waterdeep and I was a bit vague on the Moonstars Harper relations (apparently varies from city to city, have I got that right?) and the what effect it had on the personal relationship of Khelban~Lareal and the rest of the chosen of Mystra. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 15 Sep 2005 : 04:08:22
quote:
Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane
If Khelben were to fall, would Laeral have to take up the mantle of leader of the Moonstars by herself? Or do you think there would be a power struggle?
And speaking of which, do you think Laeral and Storm might have a bad time right now since Storm's a diehard Harper and Laeral and her man kind of turned their back on them?
C-Fb
Laeral is already acting second-in-command. Of course, only the Blackstaff knows exactly what it is the Moonstars were formed to oppose... I don't see a power-struggle happening.
Storm was very irritated about the entire Harper Schism, but quieted down when Elminster spoke with her. We don't know what was said, but there are several things we do know:
Laeral serves Mystra.
Laeral is Storm's sister.
Laeral may no longer be a Harper, but she is still working towards the common good -- and, in fact, the Moonstars are a lot more inline with the original intent of the Harpers than the current organization is.
The fact that Harpers who join the Moonstars don't lose divinely-granted Harper abilities shows that the gods the Harpers serve also sanction the Tel'Teukiira.
So... With all that in mind, why would Storm be mad at Laeral? |
| Crennen FaerieBane |
Posted - 15 Sep 2005 : 02:49:28
If Khelben were to fall, would Laeral have to take up the mantle of leader of the Moonstars by herself? Or do you think there would be a power struggle?
And speaking of which, do you think Laeral and Storm might have a bad time right now since Storm's a diehard Harper and Laeral and her man kind of turned their back on them?
C-Fb |
| Steven Schend |
Posted - 15 Sep 2005 : 01:13:30
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Do I want to see Khelben "fall"?
Hell no! Unless it just means having him slip down the stairs every now and then. I love Khelben the way he is.
Besides, one character of mine (a former apprentice and current Moonstar) would be very disappointed if such a fall from grace were to occur. She would feel forced to chastise him.
Bad Blackstaff...no donut.
Or were your thoughts of chastisement more of the Lady Hooded's methods?
|
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 14 Sep 2005 : 22:38:55
Do I want to see Khelben "fall"?
Hell no! Unless it just means having him slip down the stairs every now and then. I love Khelben the way he is.
Besides, one character of mine (a former apprentice and current Moonstar) would be very disappointed if such a fall from grace were to occur. She would feel forced to chastise him. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 23 Jul 2005 : 02:26:01
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
Planning to pitch something at DRAGON on that topic, so I'll keep it warm and toasty beneath a blanket NDA for now....but don't think I'm giving much away by hinting at the title of "The Graves of Khelben Arunsun."
Steven
Hmmm... I wonder what this could possible mean?
This is a great idea Steven. Here's hoping Dragon take you up on it.
|
