| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| thomas b. |
Posted - 29 May 2005 : 22:18:50
ok this book was the first novel ive ever read. i found that they were awseome.but i would really like to know ho everyone else in here fells about them. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 04 Jan 2007 : 23:09:14
I think my biggest problem right now is not the unchanging nature of the stories but the fact that there is change and its frozen in mid step. Drizzt and Cattie Brie is unresolved while Wulgar has still his quest to go after his Alu-Fiend children. That's a pretty big set of plotlines there sidelined for an attack of a bunch of orcs.
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| Mazrim_Taim |
Posted - 17 Aug 2006 : 00:22:54
I loved the Icewind Dale trilogy, it was my first FR book. The I read Homeland, and the rest of the Dark Elf Trilogy, and liked those as well. As for the rest, I'll just have to agree with Wooly. You can only beat an old horse so many times before it gets tiring.  |
| jmf |
Posted - 16 Aug 2006 : 21:19:53
ok thanks. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 16 Aug 2006 : 01:36:09
quote:
Originally posted by jmf
i have another question about in the hunters blade trilogy does gerti get her wish by getting the marchions head and shoudras? just wandering
Highlight to read spoiler:
No. I don't think The Two Swords even mentions the marchion. Shoudra does die in battle, but there's no mention of Gerti getting her head.
Wait, didn't Gerti say she wanted Alustriel's head? In that case, the answer is obviously no.
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| jmf |
Posted - 15 Aug 2006 : 20:06:59
i have another question about in the hunters blade trilogy does gerti get her wish by getting the marchions head and shoudras? just wandering |
| Mace Hammerhand |
Posted - 15 Aug 2006 : 09:21:34
quote:
Originally posted by Alaundo
Oops, this appears to be a "Homeland" discussion 
A rather old Homeland discussion I just noticed
Spine of the World caused the same reaction from me when I first read it. I was wondering what the bloody hell the Mekale (if that was her name?) storyline had to do with Wulfgar.
In all honesty that single novel had IMO more character development than any novel after the 2nd trilogy. Why people complained is still confusing me... oh well I prolly cannot get into the mind of anyone who prefers combat scenes so detailed they could almost be pornographic... |
| Alaundo |
Posted - 15 Aug 2006 : 08:38:23
Well met
Personally, Spine of the World sticks in my mind the most out of RAS's novels. I recall at the time wondering when the two tales would meet up but I certainly found it an enjoyable read.
Oops, this appears to be a "Homeland" discussion |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 15 Aug 2006 : 05:16:01
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I didn't have a problem with that book, myself. It didn't particularly impress me, but I can't recall disliking anything at all about it. As I recall, I did enjoy it more than I enjoyed the Hunter's Blade trilogy.
I enjoyed it, too (as I've mentioned here before), but apparently we were in the minority, or the perceived minority.  |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 15 Aug 2006 : 04:23:52
I didn't have a problem with that book, myself. It didn't particularly impress me, but I can't recall disliking anything at all about it. As I recall, I did enjoy it more than I enjoyed the Hunter's Blade trilogy. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 15 Aug 2006 : 02:49:35
quote:
Originally posted by jmf
ummmmmmmmmmmm may i ask what he tried in spine of the world and got punched for it?
I got the impression people didn't like:
--The focus on Wulfgar rather than Drizzt (the impression I've gotten over the years is that die-hard Drizzt fans aren't nearly as enthusiastic about Wulfgar).
--The "romance novel" elements, featuring a peasant girl, her not-so-stable lover, the lord trying to woo her, her rivalry with the lord's shrewish sister, and the pregnancy she tries to keep hidden. All this traditionally "girly" stuff in a series greatly loved by action loving young males? You connect the dots. |
| jmf |
Posted - 14 Aug 2006 : 23:53:18
ummmmmmmmmmmm may i ask what he tried in spine of the world and got punched for it? |
| Chosen of Moradin |
Posted - 14 Aug 2006 : 17:00:27
quote:
Originally posted by khorne
Well, like some people said, he tried out a new formula with Spine of the World and it caught more flak from the fans than a german air bombardment over London during WW2. That is probably the reason things are static. He tried to develop and got punched in the face.
Yeap. And I agree too with the fact that the two first trilogies (Icewind Dale and Dark Elf are real good reads!
My first contact with the Realms nove was the Avatar trilogy, and the second was the Icewind Dale (the first Forgotten Realms novels released in brazilian portuguese - The Halflings Gem hit the shelves last month)  |
| khorne |
Posted - 14 Aug 2006 : 16:27:11
Well, like some people said, he tried out a new formula with Spine of the World and it caught more flak from the fans than a german air bombardment over London during WW2. That is probably the reason things are static. He tried to develop and got punched in the face. |
| Mace Hammerhand |
Posted - 13 Aug 2006 : 21:59:54
*remains silent, cuz he said his piece on Wolverine...err Drizzt (and even Wolvie had his adamantium ripped out by Magneto)* |
| jmf |
Posted - 13 Aug 2006 : 19:13:41
i just got done reading starless night and it was pretty cool, can't wait to start siege of darkness. |
| khorne |
Posted - 14 Jun 2005 : 21:58:00
quote:
Originally posted by Smyther
quote:
Originally posted by Josh Davids
If not then it really isn’t worth the time, I got such a back log to read right now it isn’t even funny. So more then likely I will just skip tem till I am caught up years from now. To me the series are the same things told over again with new details replacing the old, when I read I want something new to tickle my imagination, not the same old stuff. Maybe that might help explain where I am coming from with this.
'The Thousand Orcs' is all right, but still more of the same. 'The Lone Drow' lagged on and on for me, worst one RAS has written for Drizzt. 'The Two Swords' was the best of the three, going quickly, with more action and plot, but came to an abrupt end and left things hanging despite the fact that RAS has said he isn't going back to Drizzt. All in all, if you have the money and come to the choice between these three and another three FR books, ditch the Hunter's Blades Trilogy. I'd only reccomend them if you really want to see what Drizzt does or what happens to him, or if you're trying to read all the realms books out there (an original goal of mine that I now know I will never fulfill).
On topic, the Homeland/Exile/Sojourn books were excellent, but still not matching the original Icewind Dale trilogy. Excellent books with a solid plot (less so in Exile), and definately worth it. Homeland will remain in my high regards, but still not among the top ten.
Yes, the two swords was the best of the lot, and a big reason is that "the bad guy" king Obould Many-Arrows comes out on top. Books where "the bad guys" don`t get completely thrashed are the best IMO. |
| Smyther |
Posted - 13 Jun 2005 : 00:52:19
quote:
Originally posted by Josh Davids
If not then it really isn’t worth the time, I got such a back log to read right now it isn’t even funny. So more then likely I will just skip tem till I am caught up years from now. To me the series are the same things told over again with new details replacing the old, when I read I want something new to tickle my imagination, not the same old stuff. Maybe that might help explain where I am coming from with this.
'The Thousand Orcs' is all right, but still more of the same. 'The Lone Drow' lagged on and on for me, worst one RAS has written for Drizzt. 'The Two Swords' was the best of the three, going quickly, with more action and plot, but came to an abrupt end and left things hanging despite the fact that RAS has said he isn't going back to Drizzt. All in all, if you have the money and come to the choice between these three and another three FR books, ditch the Hunter's Blades Trilogy. I'd only reccomend them if you really want to see what Drizzt does or what happens to him, or if you're trying to read all the realms books out there (an original goal of mine that I now know I will never fulfill).
On topic, the Homeland/Exile/Sojourn books were excellent, but still not matching the original Icewind Dale trilogy. Excellent books with a solid plot (less so in Exile), and definately worth it. Homeland will remain in my high regards, but still not among the top ten. |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 12 Jun 2005 : 22:03:33
Yeah, I guess this is one thing that I always feel like I have to clarify whenever I critisize RAS. I wouldn't critisize him now if I didn't think he had great potential and if I didn't really enjoy his first few books. Homeland was an excellent book, and it introduced a wide range of characters as well as setting up how the Underdark in the Forgotten Realms was handled. It was great.
The only problem seems to be that while authors like Elaine Cunningham are specifically told not to use their old characters, and thus, even if by force, they branch out, just the opposite is true of RAS. Elaine has come up with some great new characters and has greatly developed existing ones (c'mon, tell me Elaith isn't a complex SOB), but it almost seems like RAS has to fight to keep his characters from moving forward. There are times it seems like the engine is revving full steam, so to keep the "vehicle" in place we tie a 2 ton block to the axle.
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| Josh Davids |
Posted - 12 Jun 2005 : 21:52:31
Ok well let me clarify it a little and I will also address something brought up by others.
What bugs me about Drizzt is not just the fact he doesn’t change in any major or minor way, honestly since the beginning I haven’t seen him evolve all that much. It is the same character in book one as it was in book 11. like Knight Errant I started reading him over a decade ago, that is a long time to be reading a series and see the same thing done time and again. Only one book changed the norm and that was Spine of the World, then he got blasted for that and went back to the same stuff.
My problem with him is this, he doesn’t write anything that doesn’t have to do with Drizzt and company or Cadderly, but as he said he won’t be touching those characters ever again. It has just grown stale, and the few short stories I have read by him have always featured Drizzt or someone related to him. to me it wouldn’t be so bad if we saw at least a new character in a short story never tied in with Drizzt or Entreri. I think Salvatore is a great writer, but come on no new characters outside of the Drizzt books not even in short stories?
That plus in all honesty Drizzt is starting to remind me of Goku, ug after the first two seasons of Dragonball Z I stopped watching it because it was the same old recycled story lines. Bad guy rises up threatens the realms, they fight, the hero is hurt but wins and saves the day. Plus inner suffering and self doubt, oyi.
And yes he is very popular, some of that is a self fulfilling prophecy. Because he is popular some books stores will only put his books on the shelves if they carry FR. My local waldens literally has two shelves of Forgotten Realms books, one and a half of that is Salvatore, and I am not kidding either. Right now I can’t even find any of the priest series, at least the first ones. But god knows they have ten copies of The Crystal Shard. If a boom store stocks only Salvatore of course that will be the first book most people read, like I said a self fulfilling prophecy.
As I asked before I just wonder if the Two Swords series, or whatever the name of the trilogy is, is worth reading or not. Does it deviate from the same plot lines in the other series, is there anything new in it that I can’t get from a source book? Is it different from all the other trilogies that is what I am wondering. did he find that old spark in this new series or not?
If not then it really isn’t worth the time, I got such a back log to read right now it isn’t even funny. So more then likely I will just skip tem till I am caught up years from now. To me the series are the same things told over again with new details replacing the old, when I read I want something new to tickle my imagination, not the same old stuff. Maybe that might help explain where I am coming from with this.
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| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 04 Jun 2005 : 16:27:32
Thats something that can be forgotten when its been . . . more than 15 years since I first read the series. I may have some critism of the characters and the character development over the course of the book series, but if youngsters get to love Silverymoon and Waterdeep, or wonder at a sea voyage to Calimshan, then we have a new scribe here at Candlekeep that loves the Realms.
Although I still don't like the fact that certain area then get tied up or rewritten due to the fact that every other author seems to have to go through editorial wrangling to change anything major, but one of them pretty much can do as he wishes . . . but such is the power of sales. |
| TylerXKJ |
Posted - 04 Jun 2005 : 06:11:55
first post - yea!
The second Forgotten realms novel I ever read was RAS's The Two Swords. I liked the book so much I went and bought all the earlier Drizzt and co. books. I liked those books so much I went and bought every single realms novel I could afford. While it is true that I always know that Drizzt is gonna walk away alive at the end of the novel I know that things also always change a little.
It's the experiencs that Drizzt and Company go through and the characters they meet that make the stories good for me. Where's Drizzt from? What's Bruenor's lost Kingdom like? What's with Artemis and Jarlaxle? What if orcs get some divine backing? |
| The Sage |
Posted - 03 Jun 2005 : 06:47:18
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
As for the other books, yeah, the lack of development and impact is rather difficult to get passed. It's hard to continue to be concerned about characters when you know that nothing will ever happen to them, and that they will be the same people a trilogy from now that they were a trilogy ago...
To this date, the only RAS series that I've completely enjoyed, was the Cleric Quintet. Thankfully, Cadderly has yet to suffer the same fate that Drizzt is suffering through now.
|
| Winterfox |
Posted - 03 Jun 2005 : 05:34:09
quote:
Originally posted by khorne
Not entirely true. Regis at least has developed some backbone.
Yeah, as one character out of how many? And ironically, the other day, I saw on Salvatore's board a post from a disgruntled fan. His gripe? That Regis has acquired a spine, and that Drizzt has become less perfect. (Though I can't attest to the "less perfect" part, not having the Hunter's Blade books.) Good grief.
I can see why the books are still popular, however. It's a comfort zone. The Companions of the Hall are always there, never changing, never developing and above all immortal. People are used to it like a pair of old, comfortable shoes, even if the soles have worn so thin and there are holes everywhere. Threaten the comfort zone, and the fanits start shrieking in rage.
Josh Davids said:
quote:
The only other problem with his style is the main character is always perfect in some way. Drizzt the perfect fighter, Cadderly the perfect and never wrong cleric, that is the only other thing that gets to me.
Oh, hell yes. What bothers me is that these characters do have flaws, but they are little author's darlings, and so never suffer from said flaws. Drizzt's brooding never, ever draws an "Oh, snap out of it already!" response from anyone. Cadderly is a self-righteous religious fanatic, but of course his friends all think he's wonderful and can do no wrong. And since he's a Chosen of Deneir and put in all black-and-white situations where he's pitted against tritely evil villains, of course his ideals will never be challenged. Ha. |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 03 Jun 2005 : 02:45:39
I guess its a fine line to walk. I don't like his books as much as I once did, but I did like his older books and consider him a writer with a great deal of potential. I just keep reading them hoping he finds the old spark, and the closest he has gotten for me lately was Servant of the Shard. The one "recent" book that I thought was a good turn for his writing was Spine of the World, but, dispite what he says about paying attention to what his fans say about his work, he seems to have decided this one time to listen to fans and never write a book like that again, dispite the fact that it actually seemed to have some serious character development in it. |
| Freakboy |
Posted - 02 Jun 2005 : 22:28:23
I actually liked the Hunter's Blade Trilogy once I managed to get through it. I got really disgusted with book 2 when the Orcs were describing Drizzt as "the one" right about the same time the Matrix sequels were coming out. However, I went back and read them later and was pleasently suprised. I like Salvatore's portrayal of Obould and found the Orc's relative "victory" to be a refreshing change from the usual "all is back to normal" end we get in a lot of his work.
In fairness to Salvatore, his books are very popular. I hear a fair number of people say they don't like the direction his books are going but everything he writes hits the New York Times best seller list and often into the top 5. I believe all the Hunters Blade books made it into the top 5 and I think one made it to 1st overall. That implies that a large number of people still love his books and if anything his popularity is increasing. I still find I enjoy his work when I am in the mood for it, but feel like Drizzt's story has gotten stale. For that reason, I am really looking forward to his Jarlaxle/Entreri series. I think working with some different characters might freshen up his writing, at least to his more critical fans. Everyone I have heard speak on the issue from Elaine to Paul to Richard all say that Salvatore is a extraordinarily generous man and one of the finest people anyone could meet. His writing has opened the world of the Realms to many folks who would otherwise never have heard of them. How many FR gamers got their first exposure to the Realms through Salvatore's novels I wonder? I would speculate a large number. Besides, no matter what else happens, I will always have a fond memory of Drizzt because he was one of the earliest characters I fell in love with in the Realms. Still, I have been as critical of Salvatore's novels of late as anyone, but still consider myself a fan of his work. I would just like to see him focus on other characters for awhile. |
| Josh Davids |
Posted - 02 Jun 2005 : 19:07:28
I got to agree with what a few have said about the overall direction that has been taken with the books over the years. It just seems to be dragged out over a long period of time to me, all because people know they will sell.
The last book I read was servant of the shard, I have the two swords series all in hardback sitting on my shelves wondering if it is even worth reading or not. I mean does anything even change at all in those two books besides the orc kingdom being set up?
My problem with the books is the way the series started out, Drizzt wasn’t the main character, it was Wulfgar and when Drizzt became popular the focus shifted to the drow. From then on the books seemed flawed, as if he didn’t know exactly what to do with the characters or how to develop them. It seems to slowly stagger along with the same theme repeating over and over again. The shame challenges, the same inner and personal battles, I mean there really is little development in the main characters.
The only two that seemed to have changed overall are Artemis and Jarlaxle, and they weren’t even main characters. Well make that three, add in Regis there but those aren’t even main characters, just side kicks.
Maybe I expected more from the series after reading the Siege of Darkness line and it just never appeared. The only one that really surprised me was Spine of the World and seemed to be the only change in the series. Then he got flak for it and went back to the same old formula, or at least that is the way it appears to this reader.
It just seems he is worried and maybe even fears change, taking a risk on new characters or new changes to the series or is that just me?
The only other problem with his style is the main character is always perfect in some way. Drizzt the perfect fighter, Cadderly the perfect and never wrong cleric, that is the only other thing that gets to me. I just can’t stand characters that are never challenged on their beliefs or ideals, specially ones that go on for as long as this one. They are always right, ug, frustrating. That is the one thing that leads the characters to never changing in my eyes, they are never wrong and never suffer any consequences for their actions.
Am I just wrong in my views and need to take a fresh look at the series through the two swords, or not even bother?
|
| khorne |
Posted - 02 Jun 2005 : 17:15:18
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Winterfox
quote:
Originally posted by khorne
Well, I have read all Drizzt books and I must admit I don`t understand what you mean with "diminished". As for Robert Jordan, what do you mean slowed down? I`ve read all ten books three times(4-5 in some cases) now and in my opinion they are all great.
I'll admit that I stopped at Passage to Dawn (though I also read Servant of the Shard), so I don't know about the newer ones, ala Sea of Swords through Hunter's Blade trilogy (although the reviews and descriptions from people I trust aren't encouraging). I just feel that Drizzt and co. have stopped developing long ago. Drizzt himself wallows in the same issues for a dozen books. Neither he nor his companions suffer from genuine tragedy or make real errors. The plot's become formulaic. Who cares if there's a new threat and the fate of such-and-such hangs in balance for the umpteenth time? We all know that Drizzt and co. will breeze through it, suffering only superficial physical injuries and gaining little to no emotional development through it.
Mind you, I've never thought that the DE trilogy itself was great. It was entertaining, but no more than that. Something to go through once and never again. I've had problems with Salvatore's style since the beginning (the overuse of exclamation marks in prose that just looks silly rather than omg!TEHDRAMATIC, the feeling that all the female good guys are clone of each other ala Catti-brie and Danica, the sanitized Young Adult feel, and the increasingly dull gratuitous filler combat sequences), anyway, so it's no wonder that my opinions of the later books are even dimmer.
I'll agree with Winterfox, for the most part. I enjoyed the Dark Elf trilogy, though I didn't think it was spectacular (I will reread it, though, and have done so already).
As for the other books, yeah, the lack of development and impact is rather difficult to get passed. It's hard to continue to be concerned about characters when you know that nothing will ever happen to them, and that they will be the same people a trilogy from now that they were a trilogy ago...
Not entirely true. Regis at least has developed some backbone. |
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 02 Jun 2005 : 13:44:36
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
It's hard to continue to be concerned about characters when you know that nothing will ever happen to them, and that they will be the same people a trilogy from now that they were a trilogy ago...
Or to pay $$$ for such static characters. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 01 Jun 2005 : 17:35:22
quote:
Originally posted by Winterfox
quote:
Originally posted by khorne
Well, I have read all Drizzt books and I must admit I don`t understand what you mean with "diminished". As for Robert Jordan, what do you mean slowed down? I`ve read all ten books three times(4-5 in some cases) now and in my opinion they are all great.
I'll admit that I stopped at Passage to Dawn (though I also read Servant of the Shard), so I don't know about the newer ones, ala Sea of Swords through Hunter's Blade trilogy (although the reviews and descriptions from people I trust aren't encouraging). I just feel that Drizzt and co. have stopped developing long ago. Drizzt himself wallows in the same issues for a dozen books. Neither he nor his companions suffer from genuine tragedy or make real errors. The plot's become formulaic. Who cares if there's a new threat and the fate of such-and-such hangs in balance for the umpteenth time? We all know that Drizzt and co. will breeze through it, suffering only superficial physical injuries and gaining little to no emotional development through it.
Mind you, I've never thought that the DE trilogy itself was great. It was entertaining, but no more than that. Something to go through once and never again. I've had problems with Salvatore's style since the beginning (the overuse of exclamation marks in prose that just looks silly rather than omg!TEHDRAMATIC, the feeling that all the female good guys are clone of each other ala Catti-brie and Danica, the sanitized Young Adult feel, and the increasingly dull gratuitous filler combat sequences), anyway, so it's no wonder that my opinions of the later books are even dimmer.
I'll agree with Winterfox, for the most part. I enjoyed the Dark Elf trilogy, though I didn't think it was spectacular (I will reread it, though, and have done so already).
As for the other books, yeah, the lack of development and impact is rather difficult to get passed. It's hard to continue to be concerned about characters when you know that nothing will ever happen to them, and that they will be the same people a trilogy from now that they were a trilogy ago... |
| Winterfox |
Posted - 01 Jun 2005 : 12:51:41
quote:
Originally posted by khorne
Well, I have read all Drizzt books and I must admit I don`t understand what you mean with "diminished". As for Robert Jordan, what do you mean slowed down? I`ve read all ten books three times(4-5 in some cases) now and in my opinion they are all great.
I'll admit that I stopped at Passage to Dawn (though I also read Servant of the Shard), so I don't know about the newer ones, ala Sea of Swords through Hunter's Blade trilogy (although the reviews and descriptions from people I trust aren't encouraging). I just feel that Drizzt and co. have stopped developing long ago. Drizzt himself wallows in the same issues for a dozen books. Neither he nor his companions suffer from genuine tragedy or make real errors. The plot's become formulaic. Who cares if there's a new threat and the fate of such-and-such hangs in balance for the umpteenth time? We all know that Drizzt and co. will breeze through it, suffering only superficial physical injuries and gaining little to no emotional development through it.
Mind you, I've never thought that the DE trilogy itself was great. It was entertaining, but no more than that. Something to go through once and never again. I've had problems with Salvatore's style since the beginning (the overuse of exclamation marks in prose that just looks silly rather than omg!TEHDRAMATIC, the feeling that all the female good guys are clone of each other ala Catti-brie and Danica, the sanitized Young Adult feel, and the increasingly dull gratuitous filler combat sequences), anyway, so it's no wonder that my opinions of the later books are even dimmer. |
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