| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Paec_djinn |
Posted - 23 May 2005 : 06:14:25
Based on most books I read, I seldom find any references to the editors. We know that many editors play a big role in carving a novel but I wonder why most books do not feature their names (besides anthologies).
I was just curious and wanted to know the names of some editors. If the authors here could be so kind to just give a name to some of their editors, I will really appreciate it. Thanks |
| 29 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Freakboy |
Posted - 31 May 2005 : 03:30:09
I don't think continuity problems are much of a problem at all. Sometimes something gets missed, but for the most part I think the FR editors do a great job. I like to think of "continuity" issues that disagree with gaming material as being a "point of view" problem. By that I mean that when I read a story set in the FR, I almost imagine that I am being told the story by a person. Consequently, that persons point of view, language, description etc. may be very different from the "canon" that exists in the game world. As an example, when Andrzel is first described in Condemnation, he fights with a double bladed sword. Later, in Extinction, he is described as using a single bladed sword as his primary weapon. On the surface that is a continuity error, but in reality, the "story-teller" could have been referring to a double bladed sword as just a sword, or it could be that Andrzel simply was armed with a single bladed sword at that particular point in time. As another example, we weren't told how Nimor escaped the Shadow Fringe after Gromph attached the light prism to him with sovereign glue. In effect, the "story-teller" didn't see the means of Nimor's escape as critical to the story. That could be construed as continuity error, but in practice it isn't that important. In that sense I agree with Paul when he says that the Major continuity issues are important, but it is necessary for the minor continuity issues to be less restrictive so that an author can write the story from the point of view that they see it with.
All of that said, I have read dozens of FR books and haven't really encountered many "major" continuity errors that weren't addressed in some way. As an example from WotSQ, it threw me for a loop that Quenthel was in the story after dieing in Siege of Darkness, but Elaine took care of that in Windwalker. Ultimately, I think Wizards of the Coast does a good job of catching things, and when something is contradictory, doing their best to explain it. However, we all have to remember that the "game" is a constantly changing thing, so it is impossible to assume that all novels will follow the "canon" of the games with absolute certainty, because the game constantly changes. For that reason, authors have to be allowed to ignore continuity issues from a game perspective to a certain extent so that they aren't chained when writing novels. JMHO, but the FR authors do a great job with continuity issues, and the editors do a great job catching many mistakes. |
| Richard Lee Byers |
Posted - 25 May 2005 : 20:01:54
I know what you mean with your last point, Paul. I often feel that the D&D magic system isn't necesarily optimal for us fiction writers. It has spells capable of solving many a story problem with a minimum of fuss, which would, of course, kill the drama and suspense. Even worse, it's presented in such exhaustive, nitpicking detail that it can feel more like an alternative technology or something akin to Batman's utility belt. You can lose the sense of mystery and wonder to the point where magic doesn't seem particularly magical anymore.
Fortunately, though, I don't think this is an insurmountable problem, and in my stuff, I strive to maintain fidelity to the nature of FR magic while still presenting it a way that evokes the uncanny and miraculous. Most likely, I don't always succeed, but I am trying. |
| PaulSKemp |
Posted - 25 May 2005 : 17:43:46
I think I would distinguish between continuity as it relates to core setting information -- like who is the current Queen of Cormyr, how Netheril fell, the nature of Elven High magic, and similar matters -- and continuity with unimportant aspects of the rules set. The former is very important (and I'm always embarrassed if I miss something there), while I think the latter is much less so. While I concede that a writer should not deviate from the rules willy-nilly, I maintain that a writer ought to feel free to deviate from those rules that are not integral to the setting if such a deviation serves the story and makes sense in the context in which it is presented.
There are many examples of Realms fiction deviating from the rules, or doing things not contemplated by the rules -- when Bob wrote "The Crystal Shard" I do not believe that rules provided a mechanism for a non-mage dwarf like Bruenor to create Aegis-fang, but I'm glad Bob did it. When Ed wrote "Spellfire", Shandril's powers were not part of the rules set (we know they were part of Ed's Realms before it ever became a game world, but that is beside the point). But again, I'm glad Ed did it. In her Counselers and Kings Trilogy, I believe (and forgive me if my recollection is incorrect, Elaine) that Elaine described a stoneskin spell as having a kind of "Achilles heel," in that one small part of the person so enspelled was not protected by its magic. That's not contemplated by the rules, but I'm glad Elaine did it.
I'm rambling a bit but I only mean to suggest that we distinguish between setting-critical material with regard to which authors should strive to maintain continuity, and non setting-critical material with regard to which continuity is less important. At the end of the day, many aspects of the rules set should not be regarded as holy writ -- rather, they are simply an attempt to simplify and model complex interactions in a way that facilitates game play. Where fiction would be made better by deviating from those rules, I believe we should so deviate.
Incidentally, this touches on a tangential issue that sometimes bums me out as a writer -- I think some aspects of the Realms and its multiverse would be best explored through fiction (with all its vagaries, nuances, and ambiguities) rather than given certainty through rules in a sourcebook. In my mind, an example of that would be the nature of the gods and how they operate through their various servants (do we really need to know the divine rank of a deity? The classes and levels of Bane's avatar?); perhaps even the nature and interconnectivity of the planes would fall into this category (does it need to be true, for example, that alternate primes are accessible from Faerun only through the Plane of Shadow?). When definite rules on these layered, inherently ambiguous subjects are set down within sourcebooks, I think a lot of mystery is lost, and a lot of rich fictional landscape plowed over in the interest of rules that are unnecessary to the bulk of gamers.
I suppose that's the price we pay for writing in a shared game/fiction world.
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| ElaineCunningham |
Posted - 25 May 2005 : 15:57:06
The question of books/games continuity came up during a GenCon panel discussion a couple years back. At the time, I was writing a non-fiction article about Richard III and the mysterious disappearance of two princes, his nephews, from the Tower of London. Historians are sharply divided on the character of Richard III, and there are several possible explanations for the "princes in the tower." This is hardly an isolated incident. I frequently find more continuity errors in real world history books than I find in the invented lore of the Realms.
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| Erik Scott de Bie |
Posted - 25 May 2005 : 00:15:23
I'm just going to apologize, here and now, for any continuity errors I have made or will make in the future. I hope you, our beloved fans, will forgive me.
Now, on with that writing thing. . . 
But seriously -- as RLB said, we have a responsibility to do our best, and if we mess up, we didn't do it intentionally or maliciously. Gently pointing it out is great and helpful -- so that we don't make the same mistake again -- but remember, we're just doing our best, here.
And, of course, some really minor things that SEEM to be continuity errors can be chalked up to failures of understanding on the part of the characters or different interpretations of each individual culture. The great thing about the Realms is that not everything is set in stone, or inalienably and universally true.
Though, of course, some things are.
Doing our best here, and thanks for all the help!
Cheers |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 24 May 2005 : 23:30:19
quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lee Byers
Still, we writers and editors have a responsibility to adhere to continuity to the best of our ability, and we do try. But when readers find a tiny glitch, it would be nice if they could find it in their hearts to cut us a little slack.
I don't sweat the minor glitches that happen in novels. I sweat the major ones in sourcebooks.  |
| ElaineCunningham |
Posted - 24 May 2005 : 22:19:13
quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
I would be forced to point to Lucas Film and Del Rey. They had what? Up to a dozen freelancing fans doing nothing but continuity reading on the New Jedi Order. If they can do it and prevent LEAKS of even the plot getting out, surely Wizards can gather a few fans for the Realms.
And I would be forced to emphasize the word "freelancing," which implies payment. When WotC starts putting out blockbuster movies, maybe they'll decide to start hiring a dozen or so avid fans to read for continuity.
I've been tempted to do this, myself. Back when we first started discussing the Waterdeep novel, I'd hoped to write a tale similar in scope and style to Evermeet and Cormyr, with Khelben Arunsun as the central figure. With this in mind, I contacted a couple of Realmslore sages about the possibility of being paid readers during the writing process. But the folks at WotC decided they wanted a story with new character set in current time, and the need for wide-ranging research was significantly diminished.
I'm curious--where did you hear that LF and DR employed fans for continuity checking? It's certainly possible, but I never heard of this while I was writing one of the NJO books. |
| ElaineCunningham |
Posted - 24 May 2005 : 22:11:00
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Yes . . . but Lucas could afford assasin droids . . .
There was a standard joke that everyone who worked for Lucasfilm was implanted with a device that would cause them to blow up if they talked too much. |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 24 May 2005 : 20:29:43
Yes . . . but Lucas could afford assasin droids . . . |
| SirUrza |
Posted - 24 May 2005 : 20:25:31
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
True enough. I doubt it will happen, though. If one person violates the NDA he would undoubtedly be asked to sign, a manuscript could end up all over cyberspace. Hard to make a profit that way.
I would be forced to point to Lucas Film and Del Rey. They had what? Up to a dozen freelancing fans doing nothing but continuity reading on the New Jedi Order. If they can do it and prevent LEAKS of even the plot getting out, surely Wizards can gather a few fans for the Realms. |
| Xysma |
Posted - 24 May 2005 : 19:58:42
quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lee Byers
But when readers find a tiny glitch, it would be nice if they could find it in their hearts to cut us a little slack.
Never! We will never cut you any slack! 
All kidding aside, I feel for the authors who write in the Realms. There is such a devoted fanbase that knows all there is to know about the Realms. I personally don't get upset over minor discrepancies, but I'm probably in the minority on this issue. |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 24 May 2005 : 19:51:51
I always feel like the village idiot when I use analogies like this rather than citing great literature and the like, but just to echo what RLB has said, if you read comics that have been written by the same author over the years, from time to time they contradict their own comments about their characters.
And I only bring up comics since its the closest thing we have had to comparisons before our modern era of "shared world" novels and settings. |
| Richard Lee Byers |
Posted - 24 May 2005 : 19:42:41
As I've mentioned previously, continuity errors are inevitable in any long-running series. You can find them in the Sherlock Holmes, James Bond, and Nero Wolfe sequences, and each of those is a series set in the real world written by a single author. When the series is set in an imaginary universe and multiple writers work on it, the likelihood of continuity errors is considerably increased. And when the history and nature of the imaginary world is subject to retroactive change by publisher fiat, as is the case with the Realms, the whole concept of continuity becomes somewhat fluid and problematic.
Still, we writers and editors have a responsibility to adhere to continuity to the best of our ability, and we do try. But when readers find a tiny glitch, it would be nice if they could find it in their hearts to cut us a little slack. |
| Erik Scott de Bie |
Posted - 24 May 2005 : 19:06:04
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Susan Morris is handling copyedits on many FR books, now, as Peter Archer bows out of most hands-on editing.
Susan is my direct editor for Ghostwalker. Thus far, she's quite good at what she does. 
As I understand it, the editors' primary concern is continuity and understandability within the book, and continuity within the world second. Faerun is a vast, VAST world with thousands of lines of ambiguity and variations in culture, so I think their line of priorities is justified.
That said, yes, there are bound to be continuity errors -- we (editors, authors, designers, etc.) just try to keep them to a minimum.
quote:
(Ed is my source for this, of course, but I may sneak out to BEA in my book editrix disguise and talk to some of the WotC Books staffers directly.)
Hmm. I wonder what such a disguise would look like. . .
Cheers |
| Melfius |
Posted - 24 May 2005 : 13:25:01
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
I've worked with Jim Lowder, Eric Severson, Bill Larson, Marlys Heezel, Brian Thomsen, Phil Athans, and Peter Archer. Except for the last two, all of them quit shortly after our collaborations. I refuse to see any possible correlation.
Lady Elaine Cunningham, Editor-Slayer!  |
| khorne |
Posted - 24 May 2005 : 10:03:22
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
quote:
Originally posted by Realmslore
I'm sure many of us here at Candlekeep would gladly proof read any manuscript; and we'd do it for free! Some of the continuity errors that slip in novels are obvious to all, and others while hard to detect would easily be spotted by myself and many others here at Candlekeep. WotC should seriously consider taking advantage of the online community for this type of quality assurance.
True enough. I doubt it will happen, though. If one person violates the NDA they would undoubtedly be asked to sign, a manuscript could end up all over cyberspace. Hard to make a profit that way.
Well, if someone at candlekeep actually violates the nda, simply sue them for a million bucks. That should prevent even the most devout follower of Mask from even trying. |
| The Hooded One |
Posted - 24 May 2005 : 02:35:32
Mister Reid, that “Nina” would be Nina Hess, who runs the Mirrorstone (YA fantasy) line.
Susan Morris is handling copyedits on many FR books, now, as Peter Archer bows out of most hands-on editing.
(Ed is my source for this, of course, but I may sneak out to BEA in my book editrix disguise and talk to some of the WotC Books staffers directly.)
love.
THO
|
| ElaineCunningham |
Posted - 24 May 2005 : 00:47:49
quote:
Originally posted by Realmslore
I'm sure many of us here at Candlekeep would gladly proof read any manuscript; and we'd do it for free! Some of the continuity errors that slip in novels are obvious to all, and others while hard to detect would easily be spotted by myself and many others here at Candlekeep. WotC should seriously consider taking advantage of the online community for this type of quality assurance.
True enough. I doubt it will happen, though. If one person violates the NDA he would undoubtedly be asked to sign, a manuscript could end up all over cyberspace. Hard to make a profit that way. |
| Brian R. James |
Posted - 24 May 2005 : 00:36:34
Admittedly I'm not that familiar with what an editor actually does. Among other things, are these the folks responsible for ensuring continuity within the setting? There is certainly room for improvement in this regard.
I'm sure many of us here at Candlekeep would gladly proof read any manuscript; and we'd do it for free! Some of the continuity errors that slip in novels are obvious to all, and others while hard to detect would easily be spotted by myself and many others here at Candlekeep. WotC should seriously consider taking advantage of the online community for this type of quality assurance. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 24 May 2005 : 00:05:51
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
I've worked with Jim Lowder, Eric Severson, Bill Larson, Marlys Heezel, Brian Thomsen, Phil Athans, and Peter Archer. Except for the last two, all of them quit shortly after our collaborations. I refuse to see any possible correlation.
 |
| ElaineCunningham |
Posted - 23 May 2005 : 22:55:40
I've worked with Jim Lowder, Eric Severson, Bill Larson, Marlys Heezel, Brian Thomsen, Phil Athans, and Peter Archer. Except for the last two, all of them quit shortly after our collaborations. I refuse to see any possible correlation. |
| Thomas M. Reid |
Posted - 23 May 2005 : 22:30:29
Phil handles almost all of the FR stuff, a great guy named Mark Sehestedt does the Eberron material, and there's someone named Nina something who edits another line -- DL, I think. And Peter Archer, who is the head of the department, pitches in an edits various stuff. That's probably not all of them, but that's all I can recall at the moment. They also use freelance copy editors/proofreaders for a lot of the material that comes through.
Thomas |
| Kuje |
Posted - 23 May 2005 : 16:48:51
I think James Lowder was an editor for a time and Brian Thomson was for sure. :) Brian edited Ed's Agilta books as well since Brian no longer works for TSR. |
| Paec_djinn |
Posted - 23 May 2005 : 15:24:07
Well based on posts by Elaine Cunningham on her blog, I she referenced Peter Archer as the person Ed Greenwood sent his manuscript to for the City of Splendors novel so based on that I can assume Peter Archer is one other.
But as Mr. Byers said, Phil Athans does seem like the only FR editor. Salvatore was an editor if I'm correct for the WotSQ series but I doubt he does it full time. |
| Richard Lee Byers |
Posted - 23 May 2005 : 13:56:17
When I started writing FR stories, Lizz Baldwin was my editor, but she has since left the company.
Currently, Phil Athans is my editor. I have the impression that he's now the editor of all FR fiction, but I could be mistaken. |
| Paec_djinn |
Posted - 23 May 2005 : 09:16:31
I know Phil Athans as one of the most popular among editors but I doubt he's the only one. I mean there must be more and somehow the only two editors I know who currently are still working on FR are him and Peter Archer.
I was looking for an estimation of how many else and who are these "mysterious" people behind the books. |
| silvermage |
Posted - 23 May 2005 : 08:59:44
Yes, true, he had done a lot of work in improving the FR stories and inspiring the authors to write even greater stories. Philip Athans is certainly deserving of credit. |
| DDH_101 |
Posted - 23 May 2005 : 07:23:46
Hmm... one editor that authors always credit have to be Philip Athans. While I do not enjoy his works as an author, he must be a pretty good editor to have so many praise him. |
| SirUrza |
Posted - 23 May 2005 : 06:49:21
Because that would be a death mark, considering how many continuity issues have cropped up and overlooked. |
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