| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Gotrex |
Posted - 21 Dec 2004 : 22:24:05
Hi
i know there is already a topic on mistress of the night but i dont want spoilers or anything so decided to make my own
im considering getting this book as shar is my favorite deity however because its in the same series as lady of poisen im a bit wary of it
i really didnt like lady of poisen since i got it under the impression that it would be focused on the followers of talona and have a dark feel to it(im one of those people who cheers for the bad guys in films/books)
found that the book was a run of the mill adventure about some follow of a goody goody unicorn goddess which just happened to have followers of talona as the bad guys who innevitably lost every encounter easily
so considering that is mistress of the night worth it or is it a similar style book to lady of poisen? |
| 27 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| R0GUE |
Posted - 05 Jan 2005 : 22:24:38
I have to say I was sorely dissapointed with LoP for exactly the same reasons stated above. I can't even figure out why they would title the book "Lady of Poison". It should have been titled "Girl of the Unicorn" or something relating to Ash.
I feel the story of LoP was very slow, and WAY to much a tribute to tolkein (giftgiving scene, heroic sacrifice of a wayward soul, etc.) Not that I mind a Tolkein tribute now and then, but this novel seemed like a good opportuninty to be inventive and refreshing. Instead it was flat and uninspiring.
I will say one positive thing for Bruce Cordell though. I LOVED his characters, locations, and props. His vampires were extremely creepy. The whole location of the underdark where the ice demons (including the ice demons themselves) were scary as hell. Even his good guys, especially the guy who used the digheri-do, forget his name, and Ash, were very cool. I can see why he is a very successful game designer. He just needs to learn to tell a story better.
I am halfway thru MoN and it's much better, at least we get a better look at the followers of Shar through Keph and Jarool.
Kameron I am so glad to hear you will be focusing on Loviatar and her followers and that the book will be dark. That was my concept when I sent in a proposal as well. I am sure you will do a great job. |
| Tremaine |
Posted - 28 Dec 2004 : 23:31:59
That's sad to hear looking forward to the binding stone through |
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 28 Dec 2004 : 22:16:49
quote:
Originally posted by dbassingthwaite
Errr... sadly, no. Only The Binding Stone - the Unmentionable Project is an old reference to Mistress of the Night that I need to remove (and should obviously have been December 2004 in the first place)
Ah, thank you for the clarification.
quote:
I would happily write in the Realms again, but the chance of writing for Eberron came up and a contract in hand...
Don
More than understandable. Good luck to you with the Eberron novel. |
| dbassingthwaite |
Posted - 28 Dec 2004 : 22:06:59
quote:
Originally posted by Tremaine
I've just been to Don's site where it says he working on the Binding stone (Eberron) and a collaboration on another Forgotten Realm book (December 2005 waiting on official word to release more information)
Errr... sadly, no. Only The Binding Stone - the Unmentionable Project is an old reference to Mistress of the Night that I need to remove (and should obviously have been December 2004 in the first place)
I would happily write in the Realms again, but the chance of writing for Eberron came up and a contract in hand...
Don |
| Melfius |
Posted - 28 Dec 2004 : 02:38:00
Yippee! More books to add to my shopping list!  |
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 28 Dec 2004 : 02:06:13
quote:
Originally posted by Tremaine
I've just been to Don's site where it says he working on the Binding stone (Eberron) and a collaboration on another Forgotten Realm book (December 2005 waiting on official word to release more information)
Wonderful news to hear. Thank you for passing this information along. |
| Tremaine |
Posted - 27 Dec 2004 : 20:58:02
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
It did and I'm quite pleased when subject matter such as that is done so well. <Sigh> And now we lose you to Eberron, correct? 
I've just been to Don's site where it says he working on the Binding stone (Eberron) and a collaboration on another Forgotten Realm book (December 2005 waiting on official word to release more information) |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 26 Dec 2004 : 02:47:42
quote:
Originally posted by Kameron M. Franklin
Phil got the first draft in October. Schedule was pushed back because they took longer picking the winner.
Such things certainly occur from time to time.
I just hope that there will be no "problem with the printers". |
| Lina |
Posted - 26 Dec 2004 : 02:39:48
I think that link gave me an idea of the novel. Still not too sure about it though. I think I'll have to refresh myself on LoP. |
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 25 Dec 2004 : 04:15:05
quote:
Originally posted by Kameron M. Franklin
SB, I hope--and believe--your comment will apply to Maiden as well, so just play this off as a manifestation of your budding power of precognition. 
Exactly what my intention was.
SB who blesses authors with their quick thinking skills. |
| Kameron M. Franklin |
Posted - 24 Dec 2004 : 17:13:50
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Well exploring WotC site I found this little quote "a first draft due somewhere in the neighborhood of June or July of 2004." for the book, not sure if timeline has moved, however it appears possible some have seen first draft by now.
Quote from: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=fr/fx20030305x
Phil got the first draft in October. Schedule was pushed back because they took longer picking the winner.
SB, I hope--and believe--your comment will apply to Maiden as well, so just play this off as a manifestation of your budding power of precognition. |
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 24 Dec 2004 : 05:15:01
quote:
Originally posted by dbassingthwaite
Wow, Sirius, now I AM impressed.
Mental note to self...stick to acronyms whenever possible. 
quote:
High praise for a book out in June? Can you pick lottery numbers, too?
I have a tremendous success rate the day after drawings.
quote:
However, thanks very much. I'm extremely flattered to know that the issue came across so well. Thanks!
It did and I'm quite pleased when subject matter such as that is done so well. <Sigh> And now we lose you to Eberron, correct?
|
| Kentinal |
Posted - 24 Dec 2004 : 03:52:38
quote:
Originally posted by dbassingthwaite
Wow, Sirius, now I AM impressed. High praise for a book out in June? Can you pick lottery numbers, too?
Well exploring WotC site I found this little quote "a first draft due somewhere in the neighborhood of June or July of 2004." for the book, not sure if timeline has moved, however it appears possible some have seen first draft by now.
Quote from: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=fr/fx20030305x |
| dbassingthwaite |
Posted - 24 Dec 2004 : 03:08:31
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
I especially enjoyed Maiden of Pain showing how clerics from the same religion could have different interpretations when it came to relgious matters.
Wow, Sirius, now I AM impressed. High praise for a book out in June? Can you pick lottery numbers, too?
However, thanks very much. I'm extremely flattered to know that the issue came across so well. Thanks!
Don |
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 24 Dec 2004 : 02:11:41
quote:
Originally posted by dbassingthwaite
I know you're not actually comparing the writing, but I'll take anything I can get that links me even tenuously with Martin! Woo-hoo! Thanks!
Well, let me provide a direct link that I found in both your novel and Martin's writing: The subject of religion being treated with maturity and in a believable manner. I especially enjoyed Mistress of the Night showing how clerics from the same religion could have different interpretations when it came to relgious matters.
SB |
| Kameron M. Franklin |
Posted - 23 Dec 2004 : 16:54:03
Currently slated for June 2005.  |
| dbassingthwaite |
Posted - 23 Dec 2004 : 14:28:17
quote:
Originally posted by Kameron M. Franklin
I think you will find Maiden different... it has quite a few dark elements, none of which Phil has censored at this point. In fact, he's revealed his bloodthirstiness by requesting some expansion of scenes to increase the darkness and violence.
Awesome! I'm really looking forward to this now, Kameron. When's it out?
Don |
| dbassingthwaite |
Posted - 23 Dec 2004 : 14:19:59
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
As someone who enjoyed Jules Winfield in Pulp Fiction and Jaime Lannister in George R.R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire novel series, I definitely relate/find more interesting characters like Keph.
I know you're not actually comparing the writing, but I'll take anything I can get that links me even tenuously with Martin! Woo-hoo! Thanks!
quote:
Was there anything edited out of the novel because it was too dark or contained subject matter that the editor felt was inappropriate for the novel line?
Hmm... no, there wasn't. I probably tread a little on the side of caution and non-gratuitousness - I generally don't put something in unless I can justify it being there, so I couldn't really say if the editor felt that what I did was either justified or just not over the top. I generally point out any scenes I think may be borderline and nothing has come back to me.
quote:
Let me say again that I really enjoyed this novel.
Thanks very much!
Don |
| Kameron M. Franklin |
Posted - 22 Dec 2004 : 17:15:37
At the risk of tooting my own horn . . .
I think you will find Maiden different from the first two books of the series in that the protagonist is a cleric of the goddess after whom the book is titled. Nor is she fighting against a cleric of some "goody goody" deity. As such it has quite a few dark elements, none of which Phil has censored at this point. In fact, he's revealed his bloodthirstiness by requesting some expansion of scenes to increase the darkness and violence.
I agree with Don that it is difficult to make members of a dark religion sympathetic, which is important in creating a character that will draw the reader in to the story. I used a mix of themes to do so: loss of innocence, lesser evil vs greater evil. |
| Gotrex |
Posted - 22 Dec 2004 : 16:55:41
Thanks for the replys
i mainly got the impression of the books being focused on evil from pre release stuff before lady of poisen was released
i just kinda hoped mistress of the night might be different as iv been enjoying the WotSQ series so much and wanted more evilness 
May try the book now people have actualy said its quite good but i got feeling it will annoy me seeing Selune get one up on shar :P
and yeh i am a William King fan :) |
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 22 Dec 2004 : 16:01:16
quote:
Originally posted by dbassingthwaite
Sirius, you're absolutely right.
I really need to use this as my signature.
quote:
the thing is - and I'm sure Bruce found this as well - that it's hard to write a book that puts a sympathetic focus on a thoroughly villainous faith. Bruce probably had it even worse than I did. Goddess of disease? Ewww!
It's interesting to note for any readers considering purchasing this tome that the character I found most interesting from Mistress of the Night was not a cleric of either Shar or Selune's faith. However, Keph is fascinating to me because he's caught up in events which dictate him making some moral choices. As someone who enjoyed Jules Winfield in Pulp Fiction and Jaime Lannister in George R.R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire novel series, I definitely relate/find more interesting characters like Keph.
quote:
I wouldn't say it's impossible but at the same time, I think to do a villainous faith justice it would be necessary to really push the boundaries in a way that might not be entirely appropriate for the line.
Exactly one of the things I was wondering about. I'm not sure you can answer this, but I'll try anyway...Was there anything edited out of the novel because it was too dark or contained subject matter that the editor felt was inappropriate for the novel line?
quote:
Anyway, thanks for letting me ramble. Gotrex, I hope you give MotN a chance and I hope you enjoy it!
Let me say again that I really enjoyed this novel. I feel it's the best so far in the Rogue/Priest line. Considering the number of talented writers that have offered up works in those two series, I think anyone reading this should understand the high praise that is put forth with such a statement. |
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 22 Dec 2004 : 15:51:03
quote:
Originally posted by dbassingthwaite
You can find a better description of the book on my website - I wrote some alternate copy for it. Just scroll down past the introduction (hmmm... I need to update that).
http://www.sff.net/people/dbassing/tomes.html
Don
Gortex,
As someone who read the book, the link that Don provided is the best description I've seen so far for Mistress of the Night. |
| dbassingthwaite |
Posted - 22 Dec 2004 : 15:31:07
quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Gotrex, this link might give you more information on what the book will be about:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=books/fr/mistresscp
DDH, thanks for posting this, but I should point out that it isn't really the best guide to what the book is about - it was written as a teaser to hook people in.
You can find a better description of the book on my website - I wrote some alternate copy for it. Just scroll down past the introduction (hmmm... I need to update that).
http://www.sff.net/people/dbassing/tomes.html
Don |
| dbassingthwaite |
Posted - 22 Dec 2004 : 15:26:42
Gotrex -
Hi and thanks for asking about Mistress of the Night. I'll leave other people to convince you to pick it up (you know what my answer would be! ) but I wanted to throw a couple of comments back out.
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
Sorry, but I just don't see how anyone reading MoN can say that the focus was on Shar.
Sirius, you're absolutely right. I could offer a couple of answers to this (among them that writing a religion obsessed with secrets is exactly as hard as it sounds and also that I did try in the book to play off that "Mistress of the Night" could be a title both Shar and Selune fight over) but the thing is - and I'm sure Bruce found this as well - that it's hard to write a book that puts a sympathetic focus on a thoroughly villainous faith. Bruce probably had it even worse than I did. Goddess of disease? Ewww!
I wouldn't say it's impossible but at the same time, I think to do a villainous faith justice it would be necessary to really push the boundaries in a way that might not be entirely appropriate for the line. I'm following The Priests line because I'm interested to see how Voronica handles it in Queen of the Depths and Kameron in Maiden of Pain. Out of all of the class series, I think The Priests is probably the most challenging to be involved in.
Of course, that said I'd love to revisit Variance (the Sharran priestess of MotN), explore the Fane of Shar, and expand on Sharran traditions and history - I did dip into some of it in MotN. The Temple of Old Night in Calimport has marvellous possibilities, as does the history of the lost Netherese House of Mysteries. Here's a tidbit for you (and apologies if I've got these titles mixed up - I have nothing with me for reference at the moment):
- The Temple of Old Night and the House of Mysteries were rivals at the time of the Fall of Netheril
- The main Netherese Sharran traditions died out with the Fall and the fading of its territories, surviving only in Shade
- The high priestess of the Temple of Old Night carries the title of Dancer After Dark
- One of the titles Variance uses to address Rivalen Tanthul (I hope I remember the name correctly! The title is mine but the name isn't), high priest of the Fane of Shar in Shade and inheritor of Netherese Sharran traditions, is Singer Before Dawn
The title is really a minor thing, but it would be a lot of fun just to work out from there and explore the possible rivalry!
Anyway, thanks for letting me ramble. Gotrex, I hope you give MotN a chance and I hope you enjoy it!
(BTW - Gotrex board name, red bearded dwarf avatar... any chance you're a William King fan? He's good!)
Don
|
| DDH_101 |
Posted - 22 Dec 2004 : 05:15:01
Gotrex, this link might give you more information on what the book will be about:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=books/fr/mistresscp
I myself don't have too much of an interest in the Priest Series. It's not that I don't enjoy divine spellcasters, but there's way too many other books right now that are drawing my attention. |
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 22 Dec 2004 : 04:56:39
quote:
Originally posted by Gotrex
im considering getting this book as shar is my favorite deity however because its in the same series as lady of poisen im a bit wary of it
Okay, let me approach this subject through various of points:
First, MoN is a much better novel, IMNSHO, than LoP. I felt the latter novel was very slow moving at times. MoN I enjoyed much more because the characters were more developed, more interesting, and the story more dynamic.
Now, if you are getting MoN for a detailed look at Shar, don't waste your time. The focus on the novel is more on Selune's clergy than Shar. Yes, the latter's followers come into play. But, not as much as Selune's followers.
quote:
i really didnt like lady of poisen since i got it under the impression that it would be focused on the followers of talona and have a dark feel to it(im one of those people who cheers for the bad guys in films/books)
I can understand why you would have this impression. When these series of books were announced, the perception that was put forth online via various message baords was that there would be a focus on the darker gods. However, the first two novels have been anything but when it comes to this aspect. As for where the miscommunication came about between perception and realization, well, no way to figure that out. I recall one incident where an ad in a past novel for MoN was discussed. At the time, the ad for MoN contained a description largely showing the focus on Selune. Yet, someone in response to this, and I don't recall who, quickly put forth that the focus for MoN would be on Shar. Sorry, but I just don't see how anyone reading MoN can say that the focus was on Shar. |
| Lord Rad |
Posted - 21 Dec 2004 : 22:56:23
Now i'm mixed about Lady of Poison. Looking back, I found it enjoyable, but I wouldn't say definately go and read it. The same really applies to Mistress of the Night. There are some great areas to the novel and some very good writing styles and certainly a creation of atmosphere. I guess i'd probably hyped the novel up way to high due to being a huge fan of Dave Gross' Black Wolf and Don Bassingthwaites The Yellow Silk and I admire both authors. However, I feel that these "class" books just lack a little something.
However, I think you may enjoy Mistress, being as Shar is your favorite deity. |
